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AFL-CIO Debate: Clinton Earns Loudest Boos, Biggest Applause

07 Aug 2007 08:34 pm

A hometown crowd cheered Sen. Barack Obama as he volleyed with his Democratic rivals over his judgment and experience during tonight's AFL-CIO debate in Chicago. But it was Sen. Clinton who, in what might be a metaphor for the entire race, earned the loudest jeers and the most sustained applause.

The jibes against Obama came from all corners -- from moderator Keith Olbermann, who wondered whether there was political calculation involved in Obama's decision to vote against a war supplemental, to Chris Dodd, who called Obama's foreign policy views reckless, from Dennis Kucinich, who noted that Obama regularly voted to fund the war, and from Hillary Clinton, who threw a dart aimed at his core vulnerability.

Just a moment earlier, he said that his critics had little standing to question his words.

"I find it amusing that those who help to authorize and engineer the biggest foreign policy disaster in a generation are now criticizing me for making sure we're on the right battlefield," he said.

Clinton had a line at the ready.

"You can think big, but remember, you shouldn't always say everything you think if you're running for president, because they could have consequences," she said. That drew loud boos.

Earlier, though, Clinton heard appreciative hoots and whistles when she referred to her rivals' criticism and said that "for 15 years, I've stood against the right wing machine and know how to come out stronger. If you want a winner, if you want to take them on, I'm your girl."

After a raucous thirty minutes of questions and answers about foreign policy, the mood abruptly shifted. One by one, union members and displaced workers described their plight to the Democratic candidates.

Rep. Dennis Kucinich said his administration would be known as the "Workers White House." Sen. John Edwards said he would "walk onto the lawn of the White House and say how important labor unions and organized labor is to the future and economic security of this country." He bragged that he had "been with you in the crunch," walking picket lines "200 times" and helping 23 different unions organize workers. Clinton vowed to "be the president who signs the Employee Free Choice Act into law." Obama noted that he worked after college with displaced steelworkers. "Everybody in this stadium knows the work I've done with Illinois labor and that's the kind of work I want to do around the country."

Quick Takes On The Candidates

Obama -- his night, for the most part; a hometown crowd, his audience, his references, his tough talk on immigration, his credible answers on foreign policy and an eloquent verbal essay on baseball and Barry Bonds. One note, though: Obama noted that he met Hank Aaron this weekend; Aaron is a Clinton supporter.

Clinton -- she seemed withdrawn until she pulled out the old standard: she's a Clinton, she's been attacked, she knows how to fight -- what this has to do with labor is unclear -- but it worked, and pulled the crowd around. For the rest of the debate, she seemed a lot more comfortable (in the baking heat), even when she was booed for essentially calling Obama inexperienced and naive. This was not her crowd, and she did very well, all the same.

Biden: he's the Scottie Skiles of the race, serving up assists to, primarily, Hillary Clinton. He really does well in these formats, and he earns the audience's applause. He connects well with the audience; his own illnesses, his wife's death, his long battle for more transportation funding.

John Edwards: The angry man seemed to fall flat at Soldier Field. This time, Edwards couldn't even be the foil. He gave good passion, but he kind of faded to the back; Kucinich outflanked him on labor and Dodd and Biden had legislative accomplishments to back up their speeches. Edwards seemed eager, almost too eager to solicit endorsements, mentioning twice that he had joined 200 picket lines (even on Saturday and Sunday, gracious me).

Kucinich -- the only one of the stage to look the industrial unions in the eyes and promise to withdraw from NAFTA. He was the dirty pop of the race, allowing the crowd to let their protectionist instincts run wild before returning to the more cautious precincts of the rest of the field. Clearly, his best debate.

Dodd
-- a solid performance.

Bill Richardson: I agree with Chuck Todd's take.

Comments (39)

Are Dodd and Biden just showing up to give props to HRC? These three must have a letter of understanding of what a Clinton cabinet will look. I hope Biden and Dodd are getting something for being her attack dogs and yes men. It is sad to watch.

For the most part I agree with you...but do me a favor will you? Hillary keeps talking about her record...she can take big money and not sway, she has worked all her life for the working man, on and on...

Would you do an analysis of her actual record? I don't remember her not voting with the pack for the most part and since the Congresses she's been in have largely been corporate lap dogs...

Help?

Are Dodd and Biden just showing up to give props to HRC? These three must have a letter of understanding of what a Clinton cabinet will look like. I hope Biden and Dodd are getting something for being her attack dogs and yes men. It is sad to watch.

This was Kucinich's night! Yes Sir! Obama was pleasantly very good as well.

I disagree with you Marc. Edwards did very well and so did Obama. They make a great team.
Edwards/Obama 2008!

Biggest letdown was John Edwards. This was supposed to be his crowd. He fell far short on the expectations game.

Senator Obama was by far the most impressive as far everyone watching from Building C18 here was concerned; and we had a huge crowd.

Edwards also fared well, and it seemed as though Richardson didn't get enough air time.

Congressman Kucinich garnered the most laughs, but we had to admit, his responses were pretty sharp.

Clinton seemed to be on the defensive and her voice kept going up a scale louder and louder with each word. When it comes to public speaking, she is not her husband. She had a fairly meodocre night.

Biden screwed up when he should have responded to the question on Saco Mine. Bad deal!

All in all, from our perspective, Obama WON this one!

Tonight at the Debate watch Sen. Clinton turn to her left and wink at Chris Dodd before she talk about what Obama said last week about Pakistan. The Clinton and Dodd are working together so it seems like she is doing everything perfect. Go Obama!!!

Hillary was booed at least twice. Senator Obama was the big winner. I don't like it that they are all ganging up on him. This doesn't look good. Some of the Clinton machine's dirty work at hand. Biden was the big looser when he avoided the lady's question that had lost her husband in the mine accident in West Virginia and he was booed for it. Biden and Dodd should both be ashamed of themselves for being HRC's attack dogs. I hope this backfires on the Clinton machine. I didn't know Hank Aaron supported HRC. I knew he had Bill in the past. Why all this support for the Clintons and not Senator Obama?

???? Why wasn't IMMIGRATION a topic of discussion

I wonder how many Illegal Aliens might be taking jobs away from American citizens, American UNION workers, especially those jobs in the construction industry.

And where is the AFL-CIO in protectinf jobs for Americans?
You might wish to read:
www.eng-i.com/EGG.html
and this for a real eye opener!
www.eng-i.com/E-Newsletters.htm

Kucinich had the most direct non-politician answers on the panel and unfortunately because he isn't the MSM pick they won't talk about his performance or the substance of his views. They will treat him as a non-candidate the way they always do once they've picked their favorites. The preference for Clinton and Obama have been made clear by the major media sources. They are corrupting the process through omission and emphasis.

FYI..

TBT, Richardson , an excellent gentleman, is running for the Senate! I trust he will win, and bring a fresh air outlook. I believe him to be a righteous person above the toxic partisan HRC, Pelosi & Reed tripe.

May God bless this fellow on his quest!

Regards, Molly

Obama clearly won and I thought Edwards did pretty well.
Dodd and Biden were just there to play lapdogs to HRC
Hillary's schtick of blaming Bush for everything is getting worn. We all know Bush is the worst. But, what the hell is she going to do to fix it. what is her vision? All she does is bring up 15 years ago and play the victim.

A solid night in front of a somewhat hostile crowd for Hillary. She seems bulletproof for now.

more debate analysis
http://political-buzz.com/2007/08/07/afl-cio-democratic-debate-analysis/

Edwards had a great moment with retired gentleman on healthcare, which I think was the highlight of the night.

The Pakistan debate, I suspect will come across as confusing to many casual observers. If they are predsiposed to like Obama he did fine. If they are nervous about his 'experience' then Hillary's answer did enough to reinforce that.

And I thought the crowd response came across fairly garbled, and watching it on television didn't really really have much impact on my prerecption of the candidate's answers.

Well clearly from the comments here, things like leadership, coherent ideas, realism and political ability are, like Beauty, in the eyes of the beholders. In my eyes, we saw four grownups and three tyros; Clinton, Biden, Dodd and Richardson were calm, reasonable and mature while Edwards, Obama and little Denny were childlike and petulant and clearly out of their depth. I'll enthusiastically support any Democrat who wins the nomination and tries to rescue this country from the fanatic ideologues who have it in their grip, but we have to stop being the classical circular firing squad first. There are plenty of people on the other side of the aisle to trash; why trash fellow Democrats?

Watch Mr. Kucinich. Remember Reagan ran for years as ideologue of the right. Remember voodoo economics by George Senior (alas the good ol' days).
As Liberalism continues to awake and become more dominant in American politics Republicans will start to identify with Dennis' economic program just like they did with BC. Like Democrats did with Reagan. We are in a new age of Liberalism. Flex your muscle.

I think many viewers (and voters) will have the same reaction to Hillary Clinton's comment, "A candidate for President cannot always say what he thinks" that I did: It was extremely patronizing!

That comment smacks of the "inside the Beltway" arrogance we've endured for the last six years. It's as if we poor, unenlightened citizens aren't capable of grasping the complexities and nuances of foreign policy approaches, strategies on the use of military force or viable alternatives in countering global terrorism.

Newflash to Sen. Clinton - some citizens/voters actually read books on these subjects. We're also the people that are paying in blood and treasure for the mistakes of the current adminstration. We have a RIGHT to know what a Presidential candidate thinks about those subjects before casting a vote for him or her.

I have paid very close attention to Senator Obama since he gave his speech at the Democratic convention when Kerry and Edwards were running.
I do not believe there is anything that he has said or released in print that I have not given my full attention. To fully understand his preparedness to become President comes from following his thoughts and life experience through time. Most of all his ability to find common ground when others disagree and put together a workable format really impresses me. I think he is too good to even be a member of the democratic crowd of attention seekers. If all we heard was from Senator Obama then we would be getting somewhere. I am a woman and under absolutely no circumstances will I vote for Senator Clinton. There are so many reasons it would be nonsence to even begin or entertain a conversation on the subject. We need to be looking at who would be best under Obama's leadership. He would define the nature of their position, motivate them and really use the talent available in the democratic party. His work ethic impresses me and as a leader he is far above the rest. He has my support at the time after much study and watching all of the above. Under no circumstances should the rallying of the Clinton political professionals keep our country and our people from seeing who this man is. I really believe his whole life has been a preparation for him to lead this country at this time. And, don't forget he taught "The Constitution", he knows it well. His intelligence is apparent and must be taken into consideration here. Senator Clinton, all by herself would not even be on the stage. She is nothing!

Thank you for providing a frank and inclusive recap of the AFL-CIO Presidential forum. More and more I recognize that the majority of the news outlets are pandering to the top three candidates, choosing to ignore the reality that Dennis Kucinich is the only candidate committed 100 percent to effecting the change most Americans, including the other Democrats on stage tonight, agree that we need.

Most of mainstream media is still tucking a sentence or two about Dennis near the end of each debate recap. It feels like for every one step forward (The debate gave more or less equal time to all candidates, etc.), mainstream media reverts to the same tired reporting, refusing to acknowledge that a shift is occurring. For most, it's business as usual - committing Dennis Kucinich to a sentence or two near the end of their stories. I wish more would follow your example.

I support Obama fully. Go to youtube.com and search "lovingj1" you will see hillary's flipflops. The only reason she is high on the polls is because she appeals to the people that don't reason enough, are quick to conclusions, pessimist, cynics and just want the usual DC. sound bites. Also Obama is not investing in showing her flipflops and this shows more about his integrity.I think he should search all the speeches she has given and contrust them and present it to the public.Example she had the same position on meeting other leaders( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyqAR4lJCmw )
yet she lies to the public with her "inexperience " meme about Obama which I disagree and what about jugement? Obama has the best judgement period(Iraq war). The Clintons are taking a small part of Obama's speech that suits what they want to misleed the public. I think the public is smarter than that.

I meant mislead

If you're not really running for President, Senators Biden and Dodd, you should be banned from any and all future debates.

Clinton will be the next president, and she'll do as much for her party as Richard Nixon did for his.

The problem is they're all running as if the election is to be held today. It's clear that the situation will be different a year from now. The war has turned and now we are winning and the Bush tax cuts, like the Clinton capital gains tax cut, is balancing the budget. (Tax cuts don't care whether they are made by a Democrat or a Republican, they still work.) The candidates can say that the fact that we're now winning the war doesn't mean it was right to get into it in the first place, but after the Hanlon/Pollack article, it will be increasingly harder to bury the good news; if the candidates continue to say the war is lost when we're undeniably winning, GOP charges that they Democrats want us to lose will increasingly gain traction. To show they are not putting politics ahead of country, they must acknowledge that we are winning and tailor future criticisms of Bush to be consistent with the fact that we now are winning. Likewise, if tax revenues continue to rise, and the deficit to fall, at the current rate, the deficit in late '08 will be nonexistent or negligible. The candidates will have to beware of how they advocate tax increases to avoid charges that they want to raise taxes to "soak the rich," "redistribute income" or out of a philosophical belief in high taxes and "big government" or for any other reason than to raise revenue.

Did anyone see at last night debate that Hilary Clinton wink at Chris Dodd when he attack Obama on his middle east comment.I think voters need to remind Hilary she hasn't won anything just yet and stop using Biden and Dodd to do her dirty job to attack Obama. I'm sooo tired of CNN,MSNBC and other popular news channel saying Hilary Clinton winning all of these debates.She is not and most times the debates are even. I am now force to get my political news from bloggers because i don't trust the"honest" opinion of CNN,MSNBC and Fox.

Edwards and Obama clearly won the debate. They looked presidential in every aspect.

John Edwards hit it out of ballpark when he answered the question from the retired LTV steel worker. On that single point alone Edwards won it!

I think Mr. Ambinder has this exchange out of order:

"Just a moment earlier, he said that his critics had little standing to question his words.
"I find it amusing that those who help to authorize and engineer the biggest foreign policy disaster in a generation are now criticizing me for making sure we're on the right battlefield," he said.
Clinton had a line at the ready.
"You can think big, but remember, you shouldn't always say everything you think if you're running for president, because they could have consequences," she said. That drew loud boos."

Iit was Clinton's comment that sparked Obama's response. Important, because it's this type of retort that shows Mr. Obama's intelligence. Even though he was being attacked from multiple sides, he more than held his own. Kudos to Obama, who I think is the best candidate up there.

Two very good articles on Obama:

“Obama: Part Hawk, Part Dove”

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/200 7/08/07/EDL4RDO2J1.DTL

“To Naivesayers: Can’t Obama be new blood?”
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/opinion/59517.php

I just don't believe that Hilary would do a good job as president.

Glen, actually, Obama said the line about being amused by the critics before Hillary went. Olbermann gave her a chance to respond.

Then he went back to Obama, and Obama said something to the effect of "foreign policy is one of the biggest issues of our time and the American people, not just Washington insiders, need to be involved in this debate"

I think Hillary's line about thinking big but not talking about it pretty much sums up all her criticisms of him. "I might agree with him, I might not, but we shouldn't be discussing this regardless", which is, frankly, insulting. Kinda tired of hearing politicians ask me to trust them on foreign policy. Let's have an actual debate.

To mrl:
Since I don't have tv, I followed the debate online on the NYtimes website, and have since found a couple of different sources stating that the order of the arguement was as you said, so I stand corrected. In either order though, I still liked his comment and think it was an excellent point.

Obama did a wonderful job in the debate and I think the headline is how he being considered rookie is holding his own. And his ideas sound a lot more sensible to me.
Most Americans would probably agree (Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden)is one persons we have the right to pursue to the ends of the Earth. That includes going into Pakistan.
Let’s all read and look at what the man said before we comment! What he just brought to the table is Guts – the ability to exert effort for the accomplishment of a task and to push towards the end result. He also brings, “Hope” being a desire with anticipation of things unseen but longed for. “Hope” also fights back because if its not preserved we loose what has made us great, the desire to be better than ourselves. It’s time to get back to the real war on Al Qaeda I’m sure we all can agree to that!!!

Clinton gave another solid performance to a not too friendly crowd. She basically showed why no one is going to slow her mo.

Your outright hostility to edwards is getting really tiresome. Can you not discuss his campaign without the snide tone?

Are you kidding me? If you are not a Bush, Clinton, or corporate puppet, prove to me that you are on the side of American values. Try listening to Kucinich, listen to his speeches, then tell me that you are a concerned citizen for equality of your fellow Americans. I'll bet that you will change your mind once you get a little since of humanity.

The Clintons are frauds (and always have been!) ...look how Bill takes credit for the economy under his time in office when it was the Republican's Contract With America that actually brought these things to pass...Clinton fought tooth & nail against instituting these tax cuts, etc. Everyone knows that Hillary only wants the Power. Obama really seems to be the real deal, here. Wake-up America...The Clinton Machine is (once again) manipulating You!! "We won't Be Fooled Again..."

I did live in Africa during the Rwandan genocide. The tone at that time was according to Bill stopping the genocide wasn't in the interest of America. Do the African Americans believe clintons do really care about them? Only after hollywood shed light did Bill come out and say that it was one of his blunder and he regrets it.Also it looks like Hillary will continue with Bush's polisilly .Help yourselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fABj-os3iNI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tlx3ADyAnzk

I can't get over these Beltway candidates who just can't wait to find a microphone and stand before a whole bunch of tv cameras to say that "of course they would go after Osama Bin Laden" too, if they got the chance, but "We just shouldn't talk about it...".

Guess what?

They just talked about it.

You think the cat's out of the bag yet?

I seem to have missed Obama's "tough talk on immigration". But, perhaps that's because I've been covering the topic for years, I'm familiar with all the euphemisms, and I've also heard this similar blather from Obama before.

The question Obama was asked about this issue is probably highly similar to the questions that "random peasants" asked Lenin regarding whether they'll be able to achieve their harvesting goals.

Surely, this site could do much better and could point out that a) Obama wasn't asked a real question, and b) he responded by simply playing back a speech he's no doubt said dozens of times before.

as an Ohioan, I was proud to have Kucinich as a representative.