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Invade Pakistan, Will Yer Barry?

01 Aug 2007 06:36 pm

Sen. Barack Obama's counterterrorism speech today has drawn a ferocious response from some of his Democratic rivals. One took the bait, blasting him for warning Pakistan that the U.S. would not necessarily respect its territorial sovereignty if it harbored terrorists and refused to crack down on militants. Others agreed, but welcomed Obama to the Big Boy club. Another tut-tutted Obama's alleged lack of experience.

"Frankly, I am not sure what Barack is calling for in his speech this morning," says Sen. Chris Dodd. "But it is dangerous and irresponsible to leave even the impression the United States would needlessly and publicly provoke a nuclear power."

Gov. Bill Richardson agrees with the thrust of Obama's point, but ... "

My international experience tells me that we should address this problem with tough diplomacy with General Musharraf first, leaving the military as a last resort. It is important to reach out to moderate Muslim states and allies to ensure we do not unnecessarily inflame the Muslim world."


Sen. Joe Biden drips with frustration and condescension:

The Biden for President Campaign today congratulated Sen. Barack Obama for arriving at a number of Sen. Biden’s long-held views on combating al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Much of what Senator Obama has proposed Senator Biden has already initiated or accomplished. .... “We find it a little disingenuous that Sen. Obama is hailing this as a new bold initiative when he has neglected to join his colleagues in the Senate when the opportunities have been there to redirect our forces into Afghanistan” said Biden for President Campaign Manager Luis Navarro. “It’s good to see Sen. Obama has finally arrived at the right position, but this can hardly be considered bold leadership.”

Hillary Clinton, or, "Bush-Cheney Lite," as Obama now calls her on the campaign trail, seems to agree with Obama:


Clinton, in an interview with the American Urban Radio Network, stressed the importance of the Pakistanis "taking the actions that only they can take within their own country." But she did not rule out U.S. attacks inside Pakistan, citing the missile attacks her husband, then-President Bill Clinton, ordered against Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan in 1998. "If we had actionable intelligence that Osama bin Laden or other high-value targets were in Pakistan I would ensure that they were targeted and killed or captured," she said.

Update:

John Edwards also agrees.

Per NBC:

NBC's Lauren Appelbaum reports that Edwards, on the other hand, agreed with Obama, though admitted he didn't watch the speech or see a transcript.

"My belief is that we have a responsibility to find bin Laden and al Qaeda wherever they operate," Edwards said on camera. "I think we need to maximize pressure on Musharraf and the Pakistani government. If they can't do the job, then we have to do it."

Comments (22)

So they all agree with Obama? Welcome to the boat, friends. Obama is absolutely right. We should be taking the fight to the right terrorist targets wherever they maybe. Iraq is a major distraction for us.

Imagine that, Senator "know-it-all" Clinton following the "irresponsible and naive" newcomer (Senator Obama). Imagine that!

I hope Senator Clinton is choking on those words, "irresponsible and naive." Some of us are still pissed about it.

To that last post: You're kidding right? Please tell me you are kidding. Take your bias somewhere else.

Hillary's a really good sport about all this. She agrees with Obama when she could have easily trashed his "inexperience". Will Barack need to stop with the "Bush-Cheney lite" tack?

http://political-buzz.com/

Everybody know Al Queda is in Pakistan and Afghanistan and has known it since Bush invaded Iraq. What's the delay? Could the delay be the possibility of toppling Musarref with another ill-conceived attack and paving the way for a radical Islamic faction to take over the government? Then, poof! Now we'd have the first nuclear-armed Islamic government in precisely the area we call on for support in detering Iran's ambitions to become a nuclear power.

Joe, I'd be interested to know how likely Al Queda could actually gain control of the whole of Pakistan...it's my understanding the general populace of the country outside the mountain region AQ has been relegated to is relatively secular.

Weren't there lawyers marching in the streets not too long ago...and if they were welcomed in the general country, AQ would not be cloistered in the mountain region, would they?

I must say I was a bit shocked by Obama's speech, but it was thoughtful and highly intelligent. If we must meet our real enemies head on, he's got a solid outline of how to do it.

For those of you who have claimed for years that you admired the Kennedys for what they stood for but now find fault with Obama..you simply don't understand the forces that were against the Kennedys and why...forces that have always opposed the genuine humanitarians and chose instead the Kerry-Clinton models based on strategic compromise of key beliefs.

The terrorism speech today by Obama was the essence of what Robert Kennedy was saying in those inspiring years shortly before his death. His opposition to a misguided war, one that could only be settled politically..his dedication to bringing about the best in our society and the true meaning of being American..speaking directly to our enemies ..educational missions in other countries.

Obama has been in this spirit from the beginning of his political life. He is fearless. Those of you who refuse to take the time to hear entire speeches or read the text are allowing others to poison the well of your thinking with a cynical subtext. You have become blind to what's right in front of you.

There are real enemies in the world and they connect directly to fifth column Republicans. This IS the war we must fight against the terrorists and it must be fought here and abroad.

I am impressed that Obama actually acknowledged that Pakistan is a true breeding ground for Terrorists.

This article states that no liberal Democratic Candidate would dare say he will hit a country or region that harbors terrorists if it's leaders don't approve.

I disagree.

Anyone who acknowledges that we have to go after the bad guy if we know they are where they are... is ok in my book.

Oh by the way.. I am one of the 'New Democrats'... switched over 4 years ago, a true independent who happened to be a registered Republican for most of my voting life.

Good for Obama.

But I will close on Obama and his problems.. one of which he really disapointed me with was his take on Don Imus. Al Sharpton is a pathetic individual, a bottom feeder, and is on the same level as David Duke, just on the opposite side of the swing.

Marc - before you become Andrew Sullivan, you should have noted this too rather than just linking to MSNBC

EDWARDS: Former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards "wouldn't hesitate to use force against terrorists," said Dan Leistikow, a spokesman for his campaign. "But he also thinks we should first use all the diplomatic and economic means at our disposal," he added.

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070802/NEWS09/708020375/-1/caucus

Also, most of this was not new, e.g. Biden and others have bills that essentially do all the Afghanistan Stuff, Edwards has proposed 3$ billion for primary global education (compared to Obama's 2$ billion).

The only new part was the openly threatening tone toward Pakistan. That's why that was news - every thing else was already introduced in bills, or talked about by other candidates... On rare Occasions Reporters actually do emphasize the "new" parts...

Marc, I'm much more interested in which Democrat you Kool Kids are tying to "bury" this "quarter." By all means, fill us in.

The controversy this speech has caused amazes me. This brilliant man has said that he would go after the people who actually attacked us on Sept 11th.What the hell has happened to this once great country of ours? We attacked a country that had nothing to do with Sept.11th and somehow we have forgotten who we should be at war with! Every innocent Iraqi we kill creates thousands more enemies for us and for Israel.When will we have the courage to go after the change that we say we want and not listen to the media (who are fighting to keep things status quo - works for the corporations!) and support Barack Obama? He is brilliant, isn't beholden to any special interests (except us!) and will think before he acts.Read the whole speech for yourselves and then see how the media has distorted what he actually said.

Actually Obama is swimming hard to get on the boat. Those comments about his naivete have been like an anchor around his neck. Now he is a hard man. Whatever his principles are he appears willing to compromise them like most politicians.

Yes we must secure that area for our poppy and oil imports!

No real surprise here. Obama has said, repeatedly, that he is a realist, and that he will not swear off the use of military force to achieve political goals.

What is more surprising is how the media picked "OMG he's going to invade Pakistan and make it the 52nd state" as the appropriate headline for his speech... The paragraph in which he discusses using military force in Pakistan is hedged and limited. Perhaps it is too brazen for Pakistan's sensibilities, but, that said, it is hardly harmful for them to be conscious that there is debate over the strength and value of their support against terrorism.

Beats the hell out of McCain's "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran."

I have just returned from Pakistan where the situation is extremely complex and dangerous. I would highly suggest that any candidate inform themselves about the region instead of making statements like this that do nothing except promote ill feeling and anomosity toward the US.

There has to be another solution besides US intervention. In fact US intervention at this point would create a much more dangerous situation

The majority of Pakistanis do not like or want the Taliban in their country and actually are trying to figure out how to get them out. Supporting those Pakistanis would be a great start.

Absolutely we should invade Pakistan to take care of their terrorists. Next, we should invade Britain and take care of their terrorists. Then it's on to France and Spain. We should invade these countries and then set up bases in them regardless of any arguments these pussy leaders have about soveriegnty. We should also invade Canada since they have very liberal anti-terrorist laws. Same goes for Mexico and it should be easy to set up permanent bases in these weak countries to help battle their internal terroists problem. This candyass Bush is just too weak to take these other terrorists countries on. Obama for president and then let the invasions begin!!!!!

One great aspect of this speech is that it actually has Republicans looking defensive and foolish for not being aggressive enough pursuing al Qaeda in Pakistan. I saw Tony Snow stammering and defending Musharraf in his press conference yesterday. I'd love to see his statements in a DNC ad next November.

There are many good reasons why the Republican party is trusted less on national security now than the Democrats.

What!!!???

A unilateral strike on an ally???

IS HE TRYING TO GET US INTO AN ILLEGAL WAR???

Sounds like what George W. Bush said. And then he proceeded to get lambasted for being a "cowboy".

Will Obama unilaterally invade Pakistan and then vote against himself to fund the troops?

I do declare, the liberals get curiouser and curiouser every day.

Obama's proposal here isn't groundbreaking, but what is groundbreaking is what seems to be the development of a new worldview to counterpoint the Bush worldview--one that rejects overreaching, conditional diplomacy and generic anti-terrorism in favor of strong, clean attacks on specific targets known to be hostile to us. It seems like the sort of approach that reasonable members of all stripes can get behind now. I do think that Obama would do well to try to find a way to encapsulate his worldview in simple terms, but it seems clear that he has something different to offer.

Clinton, on the other hand, really is Bush-Cheney lite in terms of foreign affairs. I get the feeling that she is really aiming for a better implementation of the Bush worldview, and she is the least likely to actually remove troops from Iraq out of the major candidates, as well as the least likely to talk to rogue states. Obama is already picking up in the polls--it would seem that Obama's worldview is more attractive than Clinton's, but time will tell.

It is amusing to see all the Obama critics charging him with being naive. When did chasing the actual terrorists who attacked us become naive? Yet, invading a country that did not attack us would launch a wave of reform througout the Middle East is not naive?

For all the talk of "attacking an ally" - Pakistan is an ally because we pay them to act like one. And even then, they don't do a very good job at that. While Musharaff hesitates to attack known Al Qaeda and Taliban hideouts in Waziristan, He shows no hesitation in bombing the Pakistani province of Baluchistan, which has no terrorists, but plenty of natural gas that he wants to sell and plenty of objecting Baloch tribesmen who are in the way.

Pakistan is not the Shah's Iran - whatever power the Islamists have in the country is because Musharaff blocked the secular parties from challenging him. Why should the U>S. reward Musharaff for destabilizing the country.

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