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Republicans, Gays And Larry Craig: Is The GOP Anti-Gay?

29 Aug 2007 04:44 pm

Some final thoughts on the debate about Larry Craig. What follows is based on the presumption that Sen. Craig was doing in the bathroom what the police believed he was doing.

** It seems as that Sen. Craig would rather risk a lifetime -- literally, a lifetime -- of national ridicule and mockery, of whispers that his marriage is a sham, of suspicion every time he ducks into a Capitol Hill bathroom, than he would engage in an intense, scary, period of introspection.

** Are liberals hypocrites for conveniently pulling down their public policy v. private morality curtain when it comes to conservative sins? The premise is that a workable boundary between private morality and public policy can be found somewhere. I'm not so sure. And I'm pretty sure that most gay people would reject the idea that their sexual orientation is somehow an exclusively personal, private subject, especially when they cannot adopt children, can be fired from their jobs, can't visit loved ones in hospitals in some cases, etc.

** Patrick Ruffini has a point. It's absurd to label every politician or person who opposes gay marriage and gays in the military as anti-gay. Many aren't. That doesn't mean they're pro-gay -- it's just that for them the issue of homosexuality is not important. They may be uncomfortable with it, but they oppose discrimination more than they oppose homosexuality, or they have other values that conflict with the idea that it's wise to operationalize anti-gay sentiment into public policy.

** But Ruffini must also recognize: a large and influential segment of the Republican Party's activist base is anti-gay. Not anti-gay rights -- though, of course, they're "anti" that too -- but anti-gay, meaning that that homosexuality itself is the problem; that the gay rights movement represents the apex of libertinism; that homosexuality is dangerous; that it is anti-Biblical; that it deserves the shame of the culture and not the sanction of the government.

Somehow, calling a segment of the Republican base "anti-gay" is controversial; I mean it descriptively. A large segment of the Democratic base approves of, tolerates, and favors government recognition of homosexuality. (Somehow, I cannot get my brain around the idea of separating "gay rights" from "being gay.")

The more-than hundred million Americans who disapprove of homosexuality -- i.e., "gay" -- are more likely than not Republicans. (I am eliding, deliberately, over the Christian "love the sinner/hate the sin" dichotomy, which brings up extraordinarily complex theological and personal issues that do not directly pertain to politics. Ross Douthat might oblige.)

** It would be logically absurd (again) to call the Republican Party itself "anti-gay" because a large part of its base is. But it is true that "family values" as a concept has been defined by conservative political actors within the Republican Party to incorporate, among many other things, an anti-gay impulse that is prevalent in the Republican base.

** Many, many Republicans inside the Beltway like Ruffini who privately tolerate homosexuality and who do not believe that it is sinful. This disjuncture has been a source of tension within the party.

As to the relationship between Republicans and gays, I've written about it here, and Dale Carpenter has a prediction that rings true:

For the GOP, this alloy of public rejection and private acceptance means enduring more of these periodic public morality convulsions. How to end it? The private acceptance will continue and, I predict, become even more prevalent as young conservatives comfortable around gay people take over. There will be no purging the party of gays. There is no practical way to purge them, and even if there were, most Republicans would be personally repulsed by such an effort.

Comments (24)

Personally, I think that it's very unfortunate that the GOP is caught up in this. However, I don't for a moment think that the Dems are better. One need only look at Ted Kennedy, Bill Clinton, Robert Torricelli, Jim McGreevey or Gary Condit to see why. And with corruption, one need only look at Bill Jefferson or Jim Traficant, to name but a few. Harry Reid of Nevada is also clouded with ethical problems, but the media has conveniently covered up for him. Dems usually hold on to their offending members to the grim end (like Torricelli and Clinton).

A major difference is that the GOP is much more likely to do something with their offenders. Just take a look at Tom DeLay, Newt Gingrich, Bob Livingston, Bob Ney and Duke Cunningham - all of them are gone. I know David Vitter hasn't gone yet, but it's still a matter that's unfolding.

I'm hoping to see Larry Craig resign soon. His popularity in Idaho has gone into the toilet, with a new poll saying that 55% are calling for his resignation.

Steve,
The fact that DeLay, Cunningham, Ney, and other GOP crooks are now "gone" has nothing to do with fellow Republicans ousting them. They were indicted, plain and simple, and therefore their careers were finished. Bush barely lifted a finger to ease those men out the door or expedite investigations of their crimes. Bush consistently exemplifies cronyism in its most extreme form. When he scarcely sheds a tear at the fall of a fellow Republican, it's not because he cherishes justice above all else––it's but because he cherishes distance between himself and those who would tarnish his image. One day Tom DeLay is a dear friend, then he's gone without a trace. To state that the "GOP is much more likely to do something with their offenders" is simply untrue, and you've provided no evidence to back up your claim. And let's remember just how much Bush valued the justice system when his buddy Scooter was sentenced. Unbelievable. This is not to say that Democrats are not above this sort of thing, but please don't suggest that the GOP has a history of "doing something" about their bad apples. Libby, Gonzo, Brownie, Rumsfelf and on and on and on... Bush only fires these guys after they've been so thoroughly discredited or humiliated (or convicted) that he has no choice.

Most of you republican sycophants don't get the point that the problem here is republicans are HYPOCRITES.

They preach one thing and act exactly opposite.

Sen Vitter votes to "protect" marriage and then goes around paying prostitutes for having sex with them or for making him wear diapers.

Sen Craig votes to discriminate against gays and to "protect" marriage and then goes around looking for a c*ock in public restrooms.

Mark Foley writes laws about gay bashing and child protection and then goes around screwing young boys who work as interns.

Rep Bob Allen votes to discriminate against gays and to "protect" marriage and then goes around looking for a c*ock in public parks.

The White House's loyal reporter Jeff Ganon bashes dems and gays and then works as gay hooker while sitting in the second row of WH press briefings.

Rep Tom Delay talks about conservative principles and then corrupts the whole system to the core.

Rep Cunningham talks about conservative values, patriotism and then screws America by talking millions in bribes.

Rep David Drier pushes gay bashing agenda while living in the glass closets (oops, glass houses).

Bushies talk about terrorism and end up attacking wrong country.


SO THE PROBLEM IS REPUBLICANS talk MORALITY during the day and then go around screwing the country, boys, and prostitutes at night time.

Marc, is hypocrisy stupid?

Republican Party is full of legislators/bastards who are:

child abusers,
married but love to sleep with men,
prostitute visitors,
sexual solicitors in public parks,
sexual solicitors in airport restrooms, cross-dressers,
married to their cousins,
married to young girls who are younger than their own daughters

Oh my! And this is called a party of morality?

Usually people who wear their values and religion on their sleeves are the most corrupt ones. Look anywhere and you will see these are republicans.. Craigs, Haggards, Vitters of this world.

Why don't they shut the f**k up instead of telling others how to live their lives? No wonder GOP is being seen as American Taliban by most of the younger generation. The young crowd is overwhelmingly liberal in their social views. Check out the survey that came out last week.

It's "love the sinner, hate the sin"

posted by Les | August 29, 2007 5:46 PM

Actually, Les, it would be more accurately described as:

"love the sinner, do everything you possibly can to make his life miserable but yet feel justified about your cruelty because you hate the sin"

"Is the GOP anti-gay?" You're joking, right? I do agree that the Craig incident shouldn't be taken out of context and that the attention needs to simmer down.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Hypocrisy begins with FEAR! A child who is frightened in the dark room yells out "I'm not afraid of the dark" mostly to try and convince themselves of a lie they wish to perpetrate against themselves. That is ok with me, as long as that child is NOT INSISTING to lead me through the room by staying in a dark corner and yelling at me for wandering away from them. But these "family values" folks screaming wanting to remove my free-will and choice to "sin" (according to who anyway) through political power because they are too WEAK to avoid temptation themselves don't deserve to lead me. They should shut up and follow those who aren't living in temptation and fear. I am convinced "religious right" = "Faithless and Fearful" (RR=FF) Why question God's gift of free-will? If they believe God will punish sinners, then why do they rush to do it for God? Do they NOT believe that God will punish sinners? If God is in control, then surely he ALLOWED (in this case) homosexuality to exist for a purpose (or created it as part of HIS plan). Or is GOD NOT IN CONTROL? (aren't they acting like God won't take care of it?) Where is the faith in God's creations? If God gives me free will to "sin", and the RR=FF removes my free will, then isn't the "family values" plan for me AGAINST God's design? This is the test of faith these grown children fail time and again, and the people of real faith see right through it.

The GOP sometimes reminds me of the Puritans in "The Scarlet Letter."

Of every 10 people who say they "hate the sin, love the sinner," nine of them are lying and hate both.

Bill Moyers pointed out, in speaking of Rove's resignation, that Rove's gay-bashing strategy won Bush two terms a governor and two as President.

" It's absurd to label every politician or person who opposes gay marriage and gays in the military as anti-gay. Many aren't. That doesn't mean they're pro-gay -- it's just that for them the issue of homosexuality is not important."

They may not be homophobic, but they are definitely heterosexist. They may not hate the sinner, but they definitely think that their "lack of the sin" makes them superior to gay and lesbian people and therefore deserving of special rights that gay Americans are denied including the 1,200 federal rights and responsibilities associated with marriage.

If homosexuality truly was not important to some politicians as Marc asserts, then they would not be so adamant in their opposition to giving same-sex couples the option to marry. They would not be opposed because, well, it just would not be important enough for them to get worked up about. They would not have voted for the Defense of Marriage Act, the Federal Marriage Amendment or continuously spout rhetoric about marriage being between a man and a woman and anything else will cause the crumbling of Western civilization.

In the final analysis do the Americans have the right to come to Asia as missionaries to carry the message of Christ? As a conservative Asian Christian, based on what we perceive as American Christians, Larry Craig, Tom DeLay, David Vitter, Mark Foley and Christian preachers such as Jim and Tammy Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Jerry Falwell, Bob Jones and others, I really do not believe that Americans should be the one carrying the message of Christ to Asia and sooner the churches here in Asia recognize this, the better for the future of Christianity on the continent where it was born.

Oh yes, just what the world needs: More missionaries flying off to Thailand and China and Vietnam to "save" the souls of the heathens and savages. How wonderful.

There's scarcely anything more disgusting than a missionary arriving in a foreign land and telling a people that their entire way of being is wrong because they don't pray to a long-dead man or rely on a book to tell them how to live. I don't care if you're talking about outright crooks who are looking to hoodwink the locals into giving half their money to the church (which is the case in Tonga, for example, where the Wesleyan church announces how much money each member gives) or an earnest believer who just loves Jesus and wants to "share" his message through the convoluted Bible. Missionaries are a pestilence, and wrapped up in their do-gooder facade is a virulent strain of condescension and abject contempt for anyone who dares believe otherwise.

"Is the GOP anti-gay?"

YES, and is full of closted gays too.
YES, and is corrupt too.
YES, and is hypocrite too.
YES, and loves prostitutes too.
YES, and is America's Taliban too.
YES, and is laughing stock of the world too.

I'm laughing so hard I can't stop crying. In attempting a pathetic denial reminiscent of the good reverend Haggard, the honorable butt-banger from Idaho just branded himself, for all time: Larry "I'm Not Gay" Craig.

It really is like an episode from South Park. Only much funnier.

A few notes in response:

(1) You don't have to notate your posts that "this assumes Craig did what he's accused of." He did it. He pled guilty. There's no doubt - in spite of the lies he's weaving now.

(2) "It's absurd to label every politician or person who opposes gay marriage and gays in the military as anti-gay."

Switch "black" for "gay" and you'll see how wrong that argument is. To try and draw a distinction between public policy stance and personal opposition is silly.

"I vote in favor of laws that discriminate against gays across the whole of the American landscape and establish policy that gays are not equal to straights, and that their lives should be mandated by the government to be substantially worse - but I'm not anti-gay."

THAT is what's ludicrous. If you're a politician and you're not anti-gay, then enact legislation for equality. Otherwise, you're anti-gay. Period.

(3) The issue with Larry Craig is not about his personal ethics. Quite frankly, even what he's convicted of SHOULD NOT be a crime. All he did was hit on a dude - sure it was in public, but who's to say he didn't want to take that undercover cop somewhere private to actually do the deed?

No, the real issue here is one of hypocrisy, and that's the only reason I support the "outing" of Larry Craig. A large portion of this nation still bases their personal opinions of gay issues on faulty precepts (ie, "homosexuality is a choice," "gays are only a very small percentage of our population," "being gay is a reflection on your personal morals," etc) and exposing anti-gay leaders as hypocrites helps to wake up the American population to the reality - that if you're born gay, no matter how you may try to fight that urge or lie to yourself and the public, it's going to come out eventually, and usually in really ugly ways.

As you rightly point out, Craig would rather spend the rest of his life living a lie and being a complete joke than go through a little personal introspection and reflection. That's true of an awful lot of this country, and I do hope it's something that can change.

(4) I can't speak for the entire population, but as a gay dude, I will say that I have ZERO desire for my sexuality to be any more private than yours. You know, the way that every TV commercial and prime-time program and song and book and magazine are based around heterosexual sex. Sure, you don't want the public seeing you in the act, but do you care who knows you're straight? Do you worry that you might get caught flirting with a woman? Do you need to hide your orientation at work for fear of being fired, demoted or persecuted?

What you have is what I want. Nothing less, but also nothing more.

The only appropriate response to "Love the sinner; hate the sin." is "Love the cretin; hate the creed."

As long as we as a country continue believe there are classes of citizenship we will be having silly discussions like these. Either we are all equal or we're not. To the extent we deny equal rights to any group, be they black, white, brown, yellow, red, gay, straight, bi-sexual, or asexual, etc., we are just plain hypocrites, and to some extent bigoted. One cannot be anti-gay-rights without being anti-gay. You can't be against civil rights, and be pro-black.

Much of the hinterlands of the homeland does not believe in equality, and this seems to best fit the profile of Christian fundamentalists who see themselves as the salt-of-the-earth, and the only authentic or 'real Americans'. Theirs is a refusal to recognize diversity of any kind, and a very real precursor to fascism. Theirs is a different, and far simpler, world than most of us experience, and they think they can reshape the country to their own liking.

The Rethuglicans have embraced this group as their own, which among other problems, regards homosexuality as a major problem per se, and wants to criminalize it into invisibility, i.e., take us back a century or so. So their impulses are also anti-modernity, not unlike the Taliban, and other radical Islamist denominations, or Orthodox Jews.

As a younger cohort of Rethuglicans takes over, a crisis of conflicting worldview is inevitable. If there is no purge of gays from the party the religious wingnuts will leave it. If there is an attempted purge, or an effort to stuff all the Log Cabin Syrup types back into their suit and wingtip filled closets, it will drive the other faction away. The Rethugs can't have it both ways.

Nor is it likely that either faction will change its collective mind. At some point conviction will overcome political pragmatism that has assembled this unlikely coalition. Rover certainly inflamed the knuckle-dragging troglodytes to win elections, but he got away with it only because the educated, younger, cohort didn't rebel. Already young people are saying they find very little attractive about becoming a Rethug. That will only worsen, and relegates the party to the margins if they don't appeal to a more enlightened and broader base.

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch. I can't wait to see it unfold.

The private acceptance will continue and, I predict, become even more prevalent as young conservatives comfortable around gay people take over. There will be no purging the party of gays. There is no practical way to purge them, and even if there were, most Republicans would be personally repulsed by such an effort.

That is a recipe for GOP electoral failure. The GOP has nailed itself to anti-gay political crusades. 50 million hardcore fundamentalists will not let the party step down quietly from those planks. The only way for the party to go forward is to ensure that not a single GOP electoral candidate is gay or bi, and that all gay GOP activists, strategists and supporters are comfortable with sexual and religious hypocrisy, presumably in the interests of protecting low tax rates on their high-end incomes (and fat payoffs from the GOPs wealthy bankrollers).

But the GOP's activist class has never evinced a deficit of hypocrisy, so as long as Log Cabiners are prepared to continue to traduce and despise themselves, there should be no problem.

The comment by "Chris" was very well written and touching. People like Marc and fake republicans need to see the world from the reality mirror sometimes.

I just heard the tape recording of the police officer's interrogation of Larry Craig in the Minnesota airport. I was shocked! This tape recording really lends credibility to Larry Craig's account of what happened. Recall that until now, the only account we have had was the police report, written by the officer who arrested him. The police officer was clearly trying to force a testimony out of Craig; the officer even got angry a few times when Craig wouldn't say what the officer wanted him to say. Losing his patience, Craig kept saying that he needed to catch his flight. Maybe that's why Craig finally decided just to plead guilty to the charge of disorderly conduct so that he could be on his way and catch his flight.

Let's step back for a minute and assess the situation. Back in the early 1980s, Craig was accused of coming onto a gay page. He denied the gay page’s accusations but since then, he has faced unrelenting suspicion that he is gay. I believe that people will go to great lengths in order to confirm their hypothesis about something or someone, even if that means exaggerating data that supports their hypothesis and ignoring data to the contrary. As a research analyst, I’ve learned that we do this almost unconsciously. It’s human nature. Kevin Richards, the reporter from the Idaho Statesman, fits this description. After all, the Richards interviewed over 300 people to build evidence to support his news storystory. That sounds an awful lot like an obsessive witch hunt to me.

I can't help but feel bad for Larry Craig, his wife, and his kids. What if this media circus leads Craig to commit suicide? Wouldn’t the media feel ashamed if that happened?!

It has been interesting to hear the media's reaction to this tape recording. Since the tape recording was released this afternoon, some media anchors aren't sure whether to swim against the current of the rumor river or to continue to allow themselves to be swept along by the inertia of public opinion, which has been fueled by left-leaning media moguls craving a scandal among the so-called family-values Republican party. Rather than acknowledge that they may have been wrong about Craig (an embarrassing thing for an anchor to admit on TV, especially after having made ferocious accusations for the past 48 hours), some in the media are falling back on the fact the Craig pleaded guilty. But let's not forget, he pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct, not to lude behavior in a public place. He was probably worried about this incident fueling the suspicions of the Idaho Statesman, which he knew was already on the brink of publishing a nasty story about him. So he pled guilty hoping the whole incident would just go away.

MSNBC interviewed Kevin Richards, the reporter who wrote the story in the Idaho Statesman. Now, there's an objective person to interview about this tape recording. Rediculous! Of course Richards is going to downplay the significance of this tape recording. His credibility as a journalist is on the line! He wrote the story!

So, Chris... does that mean gay is the new black?

I'm sorry, I really am. The pun was atrocious.

On topic, I don't even understand why there needs to be legislation for equality. Isn't equality already right there in the constitution? All men are created equal, etc. etc.

I think it's more that we need to destroy any existing unconstitutional legislation, such as that discriminating against gay people (not gays, thank you very much; I have other defining qualities) people of any race, gender... er, that's about it, isn't it? In terms of discriminatory laws?

Patrick Ruffini has a point?! It is very convenient of the Republican pundits to throw hypocrisy back into the faces of liberals! However, it just doesn't fly! The hypocrisy involved here comes from the right...and solely from the right! Cloaking their hatred in behind "policy" decisions...or claiming that there is no prejudice behind those positions...is the epitome of outright ignorance at best, and abject deceit at its worst!

If the question were, should white, straight men have the right to be married, or to fight in the military, the absurdity of the prejudice becomes apparent! This is the TRUE test of hypocrisy! If the laws of the land were consistenly bent to impose those restrictions, the outcry would be deafening! Yet that is what the Right would want us to accept! Simply stating that decisions have no prejudice behind them does not necessarily make it so.

Gays and Lesbians only seek to protect the current closets due to the hatred and prejudice of today's American society. In a truly "Free" America, we would be just as "Out" as the lousy, bigoted, heterosexual hate-mongers! And there-in lies the problem for the Right! In a truly free society...they would actually have to...ugh...tolerate the queers!

The conservatives can't hide behind the facade of values...or patriotism...or Christianity...or even the smooth operation of government and society. The fact remains...their motivation IS...and always has been...hatred!

Ruffini can put whatever spin he wants on the issue. The facts remain. The GOP is filled with a bunch of fearful, self-loathing, hate-filled bigots who pretend to be honorable and pious! Well guess what...when the likes of THOSE people are exposed for what they truly are, how in the hell could anyone NOT understand the ferocity with which the Left attacks?

In his article, Ruffini states,"Their (Christian conservatives)public agenda is not targeted at anyone’s personal behavior, but at legitimate public policy discussions about our government’s sanction of different behaviors." Bull! This argument is SOLELY about targeting personal behaviors! How much more personal can you get than the bedroom?!

Quite frankly, when these hypocritical idiots are revealed for being the schizophrenic monsters that they are, the world deserves to be involved in great rejoicing! The ecstasy of sublime, godly righteousness...well that is ALWAYS something to rejoice! And I, for one, will be on the front line doing cartwheels!