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For Now, A Third Party's An Empty Threat

01 Oct 2007 03:52 pm

Like a cranky older child demanding the attention of his parents doting over their newer infant, the threat of some conservative leaders to seceed from the Republican Party is, at this point, more bombast than susbtance.

Sources close to the evangelical leaders on the call are plain: the talk "was an attempt to signal that Giuliani is unacceptable," one of them says.

The thinking inside social conservative circles this morning is that their leaders' desire to defer to James Dobson -- still the movement's cappo di tutti cappi -- led them to make a tactical blunder. Threatening Giuliani is not the way to preserve influence if he's the nominee.

The breakout group of CNPers first broached -- or floated -- the idea of a third party candidate at a CNP meeting in Miami in 2005, sources say. At that point, though, members decided to wait and see whether George Allen would survive his Senate race. Allen did not. Fast forward to mid 2007. The CNP's executive director, Steve Baldwin, was singing the praises of Fred Thompson to some CNP fundraisers and members. The members did not fall in love Thompson, either. And here we are.

Tony Perkins, James Dobson, and many other leading lights of the social conservative political apparatus, are perceived by their members to have seats at the table in the Bush Administration. Whether they exert real influence is unclear -- probably less than they'd admit, but more than skeptical reporters (myself included) think.

Aside from principles -- no one questions Tony Perkins's committment to the pro-life cause -- the biggest threat Giuliani poses is institutional: his presidency would break the link between the evangelical movement and the Republican Party that Karl Rove first connected in 1998. It would consign the Family Research Council to the status of just another Washington interest group. Perkins would not be able to brag that he knew in advance who the president would nominate to the Supreme Court. And Beltway Republicans -- those who run the campaigns, raise the money, craft the strategy -- would rely less and less on Perkins's advice about how to attract social conservatives.

But think about it: in some ways, though, the link is strengthened with Giuliani at the top of the ticket. In the latest Gallup survey, Giuliani leads among conservatives, weekly chuch goers, protestant Christians and Catholics. To be reductive, if Giuliani wins the Republican nomination, he can thank evangelicals for whom the war against radical (or just regular) Islam is paramount.

It's worth noting: the CNP has seeded insurgent challengers before. In 1990, after George H.W. Bush capitulated and endorsed an income tax hike, frustrated CNPers began to plot the presidential candidacy of one Pat Buchanan....

Comments (16)

Giuliani's lead among conservatives, evangelicals, etc. is much smaller than his lead among moderates, seculars and independents. If he wins the nomination, it will be because he dominated in the party's center, while the right was split several different ways. Giuliani has also courted some elements of the conservative movement that have reasons to like him -- for example, the conservative legal establishment (e.g., Theodore Olson), many of whom have known him for years -- while leaving Tony Perkins et al alone.

The third-party threat might not be entirely idle. Ron Paul could run as a Libertarian nominee (he is pro-life and pro-gun and anti-illegal immigrant), and the Constitution Party is already on the ballot in many states. A James Dobson type could easily win a Nader-like 2-3% as a Constitution nominee, making a GOP nominee's life pretty difficult.

"the link between the evangelical movement and the Republican Party that Karl Rove first connected in 1998"??? This observation is about 30 years off. Richard Nixon and Billy Graham did that in 1968. Further, it has never been broken... although George the first bent it considerably.

He who shall not be named for fear his internet hordes may attack will run as a third party candidate when he looses the GOP nomination.

He is a solid Christian conservative and, although Dobson and Perkins are too smart to buck the party and endorse a third-party, maybe he can attract 10 - 15 % of the "true conservative" vote.

The problem with willie's analysis of "he who shall not be named" is that he cannot get more than 3% of the Republican vote. Most conservatives--and certainly most Republicans--think "he" is a kook. If he can't get 3% of the Republican vote, he will draw less than 1% in the general election.

I'll believe a Third Party revolt when I see it but even then will probably think it's fake. I know too many of these folks. To see REAL Christian web site (NOT Republican Party cheerleaders!) visit TheAmericanView.com and put in search engine "Dobson, Viguerie, Sekulow, other usual suspects." JL.

There is already an irrepairable fracture in the party, and if Giuliani gets the nod, you'll see the old right become the main opposition party.

To be reductive, if Giuliani wins the Republican nomination, he can thank evangelicals for whom the war against radical (or just regular) Islam is paramount.

Translation:

He will win the vote of the "He'll kill the sand-n***ers and that's good enough for me!" crowd.

By the way, the CNP is the Council for National Policy, for those of you who were wondering.

Marc: Why should we render you a credible source of information when you can't even spell, cf. "seceed"?

Senator Fred Thompson is the only major candidate that gets it. He makes decisions based on principles. Principles don’t change. You have to stand for something and not change who you are based on the polls. That is what Mitt Romney and Rudy Giuliani have done and all of the Democrats do it. Give me a leader that will stand by his principles anyday versus someone that stands for everything.

I know many, many Republicans that will stay home if Rudy Giuliani is the candidate. He does not represent our values as Conservatives, and never will. Mitt Romney is a RINO (though a very nice man) that simply has everything else and nothing to do. “I guess I’ll just try to buy the presidency”. Conservatives will simply stay home and the Democrats will pick up additional seats in the House and probably get the 60 seats in the Senate they need to completely destroy our Country. Nice picture huh?

However, I think Fred can bring America back together, if that’s even possible. America needs a rebirth of patriotism and honor. Republicans also need a rebirth. President Reagan was our last rebirth and he can never be duplicated. Fred Thompson will bring his own down-to-earth common sense to this Country and strength back to our party. A little of the good old days of faith and family would do well for this Country. If a Conservative runs as a Conservative, he will win!

Think of it this way: Eight years of another Clinton White House? Now if that is not a sufficient enough reason to pull together as a party, as a Country, and fight this socialist liberal takeover of our government, what is? It is not impossible to take back the House and the Senate. We are winning in Iraq—they know it. The best they can do now is stop our progress and choose defeat, just like they did during Vietnam. We lost because Congress chose defeat. History repeats itself when not learned from.

Folks, we are in for the fight of our lives, just as our young men and women are fighting for our freedoms in Iraq and Afghanistan, we must fight for our Country right here and now! I truly believe Fred Thompson is the one man who can pull this party and nation back together! Rudy Giuliani will just tear us apart as a party. Liberal is liberal every day of the week.

Really tick off the leftist democrats and contribute to Fred Thompson: https://www.fred08.com/contribute.aspx?RefererID=c637caaa-315c-4b4c-9967-08d864cd0791

As a life-long Republican it pains me to see my party in complete disarray but i can't say it isn't the reslult of our own willingness to put the desire for power over the desire to competently govern. The center of the party (The Bushes) have done nothing but pander to the religious right as a means of achieving power. Thirty years of lip service is finally wearing thin? What took so long?

Religious conservatives have been used to advance the business interests of a better-connected few. Sadly those interests haven't served the interests of the larger party or the American people. If Halliburton, Exxon Mobile et al wanted abortion ended, how long would it have taken? Religious conservatives have very little to show for this unholy alliance. Time to wake up.


Third party or not, conservatives have lived up to their self-fulfilling prophesy, "Government is bad," by governing badly.

I am a life long republican in ron pauls district.
I truly believe if ron does not get on the ballot in some way, this country will take such a massive left turn it will make the 70's look innocent.
No one will vote for anyone else.
Most will just stay home, like I plan to.
I am telling all Republicans, our party has been hijacked and we are setting our selves up for 8 years of public hell.
Be Warned.
The LIBS are coming.

You Republicans are a riot. Your party is indeed in deep trouble. It really has been hijacked--with your active and eager connivance. News flash: Giuliani is not a christian! Romney is a heretic! Thompson is a confirmed hedonist! You have already figured out that George Bush is not a christian, although it took you dullards 6 years. People told you so at the beginning, but you were so much smarter than they were. Fundamentalist domination of national government is OVER because you screwed it up like no other group since the Hoover Republicscum.

You blew it. You couldn't figure it out. You put your trust in the corporate corsairs, and you have no one else to blame for the fact that you now have to walk the plank.

Now try to learn from your mistakes. The first thing you should learn is that you're too stupid to vote. You don't understand anything, including your own best interests, so just stay home from the polls, and let those of us who do understand do the choosing. Life will be a lot better that way.

You know, extremists tend to overload their propaganda with worthless metaphors, as "Querent" has done in his last post.

Let us chalk up his bitter tone to a personal insecurity.

"He will win the vote of the "He'll kill the sand-n***ers and that's good enough for me!" crowd."

Ever since I saw the Twin Towers collapse live on TV on 9-11, that's been good enough for me too.