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The Politics Of Lieberman-Kyl, Part 1

11 Oct 2007 05:00 pm

A reduced but active presence will also send a clear message to hostile countries like Iran and Syria that we intend to remain a key player in this region…Make no mistake, if the Iranians and Syrians think they can use Iraq as another Afghanistan or a staging area from which to attack Israel or other countries, they are badly mistaken. It is in our national interest to prevent this from happening
So said Barack Obama in a November, 2006 speech to the Council on World Affairs in Chicago.

Today, Obama's campaign is testing an online advertisement that subtly, without using Hillary Clinton's name, implies that Obama alone is fighting efforts by the Bush Administration to start a war with Iran. And in a New Hampshire Union Leader op-ed, Obama points out that Clinton was the "only Democratic presidential candidate" to support the Lieberman-Kyl amendment to the defense authorization bill, an amendment that, in Obama's words, "directly links the ongoing war in Iraq -- including our troop presence -- to checking the threat from Iran."

Sen. Clinton says she was merely voting for more diplomacy, not war with Iran. If this has a familiar ring, it should. Five years after the original vote for war in Iraq, Sen. Clinton has argued that her vote was not for war -- it was for diplomacy, or inspections

There are at least four questions to unpack.

(a) Does Lieberman-Kyl provide a pathway for war with Iran?
(b) Is it, indeed, analogous to the AUMF resolution in 2002?
(c) Has Obama been leading the charge against saber-rattling?
(d) Would Obama actually do anything different than what Clinton would do?

Here's an attempt to answer these questions.

(A) -- arguably, an unamended version of Lieberman-Kyl contained aggressive language. See here.

lkrevised.JPG

(3) that it should be the policy of the United States to combat, contain, and roll back the violent activities and destabilizing influence inside Iraq of the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, its foreign facilitators such as Lebanese Hezbollah, and its indigenous Iraqi proxies;

(4) to support the prudent and calibrated use of all instruments of United States national power in Iraq, including diplomatic, economic, intelligence, and military instruments, in support of the policy described in paragraph (3) with respect to the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran and its proxies;



But this language was deleted from the amendment that Clinton voted for.

So here is what Obama objects to:

It's the first paragraph under the "Sense of Senate" heading.

(1) that the manner in which the United States transitions and structures its military presence in Iraq will have critical, long-term consequences for the future of the Persian Gulf adn the Middle east, in particular with regard to the Government of ... Iran to pose a threat to the security of the region, the prospects for democracy for the people of the region, and the health of the global economy.

It is not immediately apparent how this portion of the amendment conflicts with Obama's 2006 sentiment: he argued that a "reduced but active" presence of U.S. troops would do just what Lieberman-Kyl finds necessary: to "send a clear message to hostile countries..."

(B) -- Is Lieberman-Kyl analogous, in context or content, to the Use of Force Resolution from 2002?

To argue this is to interpret history; to Obama, the answer is yes. To some proponents of Lieberman-Kyl who want to strike at Iran, the answer is yes. Of course the Bush Administration believes that the resolution is tantamount to Congressional authorization to strike at the Revolutionary Guards because they're now officially a terrorist group. Why? Because they cannot be trusted, not even one little bit. And Clinton -- remember, this is Obama's argument -- has made exactly the same mistake again.

For Obama, the text of the resolution itself doesn't matter so much as the intentions of the authors and the intentions of the Bush Administration.

To Clinton, and based on a plain reading of the texts of both resolutions, the answer is no. The resolution doesn't give the administration the authority to pick its nose. Obama himself believes that the Revolutionary Guards should be designated a terrorist organization. And he has acknowledged that the presence of troops in the Middle East should at least in part be structured so as to consider our national security interests vis-a-vis Iran.

For example, the 2002 Authorization for Use of Military Force against Iraq resolution includes this explicit paragraph:

SEC. 2. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.

Among those Dems who voted AGAINST the Iraq War resolution but voted FOR Lieberman-Kyl: Sens. Durbin, Levin, Akaka, Conrad, Mikulski, Murray, Reed and Stabenow. That's Sen. Dick Durbin, a chief Obama adviser and close friend.

Tomorrow: I'll try to answer questions 3 and 4.

Comments (17)

Vote wisely on 08...Elect a leader with Judgment...A leader who will answer your questions, A leader who will tell you the truth, A leader who is not arrogant , A leader with vision, A leader who does not triangulate, A leader named Obama...By the way good read on Clinton...Please go to the web link below.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/10/opinion/10dowd.html?hp

Obama also said that diplomatic effort need to be done in such a way that Iran with understand that we are not going to invade them if they stop their unproductive behaviors in middle east...But "Sen. Clinton says she was merely voting for more diplomacy, not war with Iran. If this has a familiar ring, it should. Five years after the original vote for war in Iraq, Sen. Clinton has argued that her vote was not for war -- it was for diplomacy, or inspections. But all of us knew what the Senate was debating in 2002. John Edwards has renounced his own vote for the war, and he should be applauded for his candor. After all, we didn't need to authorize a war in order to have United Nations weapons inspections. No one thought Congress was debating diplomacy. No newspaper headlines ran on Oct. 12, 2002, reading, "Congress authorizes diplomacy." This was a vote to authorize war, and without that vote, there would have been no war"

"In choosing their next President, the American people need to look at the judgments each of the candidates has made on war in the past, and at who has clearly learned the lessons of this disastrous war going forward"

These two quotes speak for it self. Uhmnn... Obama just got me thinking again. Judgement seems to be trumping experience.

I am glad that Obama is pointing these FACTS out...it's not mud slinging if it's the truth and it is related to the issues. We hear all the great thing that Hillary will do but next week she is bound to change her mind. We can't risk having a President to flip flops.

What the media forget to address is about Clinton's Negative in the poll...Well, well...I think the records speak for themselves: Obama has judgment and guts and Clinton simply does not. Listen people, this is a simple choice between someone who can win the General Election (Obama) and someone who can't (Clinton). Let's not blow it again! if we do, I warn you that Rudy will be even worst than Bush/Cheney. Clinton is the "biggest dud" in the history of this American Electorate. I warn you Dems, don't do it, she can't win and even if she does this country will be torn to shreds and nothing will be accomplished. We will not find a solution to the War or Social Security or nothing bipartisan will be accomplished...(FORGET HEALTH CARE)I am sorry Hillary supporters, don't bet on that horse...

Kyl-Lieberman is ALL about US military presence; the bulk of it quotes ominous statements from Petraeus and Crocker about Iranian involvement, then explicitly ties our military presence to Iranian involvement in Iraq.

Nothing in this "sense of the senate" amendment suggests a recommended course of action, but it's like putting a gun on a table in front of someone who's threatened to shoot somebody.

By contrast, the focus of the Smith bill on Iran that Obama co-sponsored back in April focused on sanctions. It recognized the Iranian threat but explicitly stated that "Nothing in this Act should be construed as giving the President the authority to use military force against Iran."

These are very different bills and Obama's right to point out the important distinctions.

Obama supporters must drink a lot of kool-aid to buy this stupid crap.

Iran will be a major player in the Dem primary and the '08 general. Hard to imagine...


http://www.political-buzz.com/

Sakitume, you're so right. Obama is also so right. It is absurd to cast this Lieberman/Kyle Amendment as if there were not an Iraq War Resolution already in place and superseding. It's absurd to say this isn't against the Nation of Iran, it is. It does not say The Revolutionary Guard. It throws in the word "diplomacy" as if that's anything either this administration or a Clinton administration would support - her vehemence against face-to-face negotiations, the only kind that will merit any respect at this late stage, and her calling Obama "naive" for pushing for those negotiations, makes it clear. How sad Hillary did this; I truly can't vote for her if she's the nominee now, it's a huge lapse in judgment and terrible political play to appease those who want to threaten/attack Iran. Obama better win, or I have to vote Independent - and not a Lieberman Independent! - in Nov. 08! I'm off to phone bank for Obama!

Have you lost your mind, Marc? The damn bill could have said "cats pajamas" 500 times over after the title "iran is bad" and it would have had the same effect. you think cnn is going to bother with markup? cute graphic but so completely irrelevant. and fox? the public hears rumors that the senate is grousing about iran and now all we need is a couple dozen stories about iranian ieds and someone commissions a poll and presto everyone hates iran and next thing you know you got people out at campaign fish fries talking about how much they hate iran too and wouldn't it be nice if we did something about it, give petreaus a little money to get the bad guys, and lo and behold it gets worse instead of better and the number of ieds go up instead of down except may now they really are coming from iran and we are fighting a low grade undeclared war with the guys and our boys are dying (thanks senator kyl) the brass have to go along with those delta forces jaunts across enemy lines because like iran contra and all the other justified bending of the rule this would be justified too and necessary if we ever hope to win, and then presto now we really can't leave because we have to protect iraq from iran. and a whole generation can ponder away their retirement 50 years from now trying to figure out what it was exactly that we hated about iran the whole thing is almost as blatant a play as the powell seminar at the un--remember that one a few years back, or have you lost your mind. what are you gonna tell bill moyers in 5 years--i didnt think it was all that bad as resolutions, i read it and it made sense. no one reads these things marc, wake up.

HILLARY CLINTON pledged in August, "I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential primary election or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina." Well she has dishonored her word and she is on the Michigan ballot.
__________

During a Democratic presidential debate in July, Obama said he would be willing to meet without precondition in the first year of his presidency with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea.

Standing with him on stage, Clinton said she would first send envoys to test the waters and called Obama's position irresponsible and naive.

But asked about it Thursday by a voter, the New York senator said twice that she, too, would negotiate with Iran "with no conditions."
__________

Think about her Kyl/Lieberman vote, her Iraq vote. Her arrogance, her divisiveness. Her lack of judgment and her dishonesty.


Get active. She must be stopped.

Some of this Inside Baseball is constructive, but the vote itself makes no sense. Terrorism is roughly defined as violence against the citizenry intended to achieve a policy objective. In that respect, you'd have a better argument for the US Army being a terrorist organization (especially after Fallujah) than the Iranian Republican Guard. After all, the imported weaponry and the IEDs are focused on our military, aren't they? Not on the Iraqi citizenry.

I haven't done much homework on this, so I could be way off, but we have become awfully sloppy in tossing around the "terrorist" label. I just think that some intellectual discipline might help here.

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