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The Republican Debate: First Take

21 Oct 2007 09:40 pm

As the Republicans debated who is more conservative tonight, two voices stood out: Mitt Romney's and Rudy Giuliani's.

At long last, Romney defended and touted and bragged about the singular political and policy accomplishment of his tenure as Massachusetts governor: the health care system reform that provides every resident there with insurance. Watching him at other debates, it was easy to get the sense that he wasn't sure how to integrate his Massachusetts experience into his campaign narrative. The plan itself was written with the help of Heritage Foundation experts but it did not, in the end, comport with every conservative principle.

But it stands out as an prime example -- perhaps the ultimate example -- of conservative governance. Romney worked hard at health care in Massachusetts; he worked with Democrats; he worked with Republicans; he wound up with a novel program that, while not perfect and not transferable to other states, stands out as a real accomplishment. Romney calls himself an executive and a manager; with health care, he executed and managed in real time. At their Michigan debate, Republicans seemed a bit reality-deaf and barely acknowledged the sense of economic dislocation that middle class Republicans feel; Tonight, Romney demonstrated that, given the right scenario, he can connect with those voters better than just about any candidate up there.

His best moment may have been when he said that an insurmountable problem like the health care crisis can, indeed, be solved. It wasn't just a candidate saying he was optimistic; he showed how optimism, will and plod can be potent problem-solving forces.

After a tentative start, Giuliani again proved that he is so adept in these formats and can handle really any question with finesse. And he showed, again, that he is the Republican who best frames the race against Hillary Clinton. He's a natural at it. Also: Giuliani should get some props from Ezra Klein: he accurately pointed out that Medicare is in much worse shape than Social Security and is a much more serious problem. At the end of the debate, he gave an answer on Iran that sounded reasonable and not Podhoretz-esque.

Fred Thompson started off better than he finished -- a meandering answer on Turkey did not come off very well. At one point, he seemed not to recognize that the Armenian Genocide proposal is already, well, dead. He did have a cute final answer on his laziness.

John McCain -- the only standing ovation belonged to him for his classic line about Hillary Clinton's Woodstock museum earmark: "I’m sure it was an historical and pharmaceutical event… I was tied up at the time." He tried hard -- at times too hard -- to rise above his opponents, talking just a little too slowly and softly at times. Substantively, he was crisp and detailed.

Ron Paul -- what to say about a man who draws more boos than Hillary Clinton from the crowd?

Mike Huckabee -- Last debate, he faded into the background while Thompson came into relief; this time, Huckabee stood his own, but didn't have any breakout moments.

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Comments (52)

"Ron Paul -- what to say about a man who draws more boos than Hillary Clinton from the crowd?"

Given the cheer lines of the night, and the stew of non-answers and strongman posturing, I'd say, "hero".

Agreed with David. He talks about traditional conservative principles, and people in the fox-selected audience boo him. Just because of his foreign policy, because they are all brainwashed to think that anyone who opposes the war is the devil. Boo the devil!

Ah yes... Boos from the 1/3 of the nation who still think policing the world is a good idea.

Ron Paul whipped all the neocon candidates tonight!!!

Couldn't disagree with your Ron Paul comment more......

Romney's health care compromise may have been artful, but it's absolutely absurd to refer to it as "conservative governance".

Increasing the level of state involvement in health care cannot be considered conservative. Period.

The rest of your analysis is on the same level.

He didn't say anything different than he said in the other debates, yet this time he got bood. That seems suspicious to me, and extremely juvenile at the same time.

Agreed Rustik.

I find it so ironic that they can fill a room of pro-lifers, yet all love to fight wars. Fox Propaganda News to the rescue!

I really think they were screwing around with the volume from the audience. I could hear screaming for Ron Paul, but it sounded muffled in comparison with the applause the other candidates were getting. Fox really tries to rig these things, and then won't even stand by the results of the polls they administer. I hope that the real elections are run more impartially than these debates.

Mike Huckabee clearly won the debate. I used to be a Thompson fan, but I am voting for Mike Huckabee now!

Hi,

God help us all if Ron Paul doesn't obtain the nomination. The crowd seemed very odd. I have a friend who went to the debate and he stated that the Rudy crowd was already seated then others were allowed to enter. Odd don't you think?

Ron Paul always offers topics of great concern that it appears the some party members just don't want to disucss or listen too..,.

Wake up America Ron Paul will get ride of the income tax... Will this help your family?

I stand by Ron Paul 1000%

Hannity and the rest of the fixed news whore house right wing cheerleading network showed tonight how scared and paranoid they are of Hillary Clinton.

Seems to me Ron Paul has had the same platform since the beginning really for the past 20 years, yet tonight he gets booed on the war. This guy makes more sense than anyone else.
No wonder he keeps winning the polls and generating the money for his campaign.

Obviously the reason Ron Paul got boos is that he is the only anti-war candidate. 90% of that audience was pro-war and committed to one of the other candidates.

The same is true of the little Faux Snooze focus group.

Later.

The People (at least in the pre-selected Fox News crowd) have forgotten what the Truth sounds like. How sad indeed.

That was one of the lamest debates I've seen this season. Matched only by the coverage by the media.... As far as boos go, you seem to be in the same company -- best not throw stones.

I support Ron Paul. However, I must say that he did not perform nearly as well on this debate as he has in others.

He seemed a little too one-note and often not directly answering the questions or maybe it was just he was giving more complex answers then the time allowed.

On performance alone - I would say Hucklebee won the debate.

But, the fact that I think Hucklebee came across better tonight, doesn't change my views on Dr. Paul. He still is the one I am closest too on the issues ad the one I trust the most (based on his writings and record). I can just admit that he unde-performed tonight.

After 25+ years supporting the Republican Party I can’t believe what I’m witnessing. A Republican being booed by so called conservative voters and mocked by conservative commentators for talking about decreasing the size of government, reducing government spending, protecting individual rights, cutting taxes, not supporting policing of the world, what is going on with the Republican Party aren’t these the things we support?
Aside from Ron Paul all the other candidates are going to get us right back into a cold war with Russia after all the years of hard work Ronald Regan did to end it. By talking about expanding NATO to Russia’s door step and expanding it into Asia along with building a missile defense system in ex-Warsaw Pact nations that are now in NATO and going to war with Iran who threatens Israel’s national security not ours. Ronald Regan must be turning over in his grave right now.

Ron Paul stands for & has been loyal to principles of our founding fathers: limited government, a defense whose only purpose is protect our borders and our liberty and the constitution.

Ron Paul is a neo-hippy, and the people of Florida see right through him. His message of retreat and failure may play well among the heavily medicated electorate, but Republicans in general aren't going to buy it.

The Orlando audience was clearly unrepresentative of America. This is the only conclusion one can reach when one notices that RON PAUL WON THE PHONE POLL BY ALMOST TEN PERCENT. The questions that follow this conclusion are "Why?" and "How?"

To Eric--Iraq is linked inextricably to my military career. If we leave we are not losing, we are simply withdrawing from Vietnam II; Iraq has nothing to do with 9-11 and it never will, no matter how much people like you try to make the connection. It has only agigated terrorism, just like much of the rest of our foreign policy for the last 50 years.

I am a career Naval officer who has been politically neutral for my entire life, but this is about voting for America and our Constitution, which I took an oath to preserve! I am now supporting Ron Paul with my wallet--and my heart.

The reason Paul received boos from a republican crowd is that he is more dovish than Hillary. At least, Hillary wants a responsible pull out. The large majority of Republicans are pro-victory on Iraq, Paul wants surrender. Period.

Who are we surrendering from? We will still be fighting terrorism...Let's bring our Real Military home! Get rid of Blackwater USA (off our continent) (They have 9 compounds here!)- and rebuild America-
Let our guys in our real military come home and then they can send the mad dogg mercenaries- out to actually get the true terrorist.

This is so typical. Another attempt to silence the Ron Paul. Online polls are being taken down by the giant media hogs because Ron Paul is ranking too high. To hear boos from the crowd should be questioned, not taken as something as expected and normal. Obviously, this author is part of the fascist movement of America.

The attempt to try to create the perception that Republicans are hostile to Ron Paul is going to backfire on those who try to commit such a fraud on the American people, because Ron Paul has the truth on his side. In each of the debates he is given very little actual speaking time, but each debate he delivers the most powerful and coherent arguements of the entire debate. Each time he pounds the other candidates in terms of positive feedback. MSNBC felt the wrath of Paul supporters when they pulled their last poll because he was crushing his competition. They then were flooded with more e-mail than they ever remembered getting from any candidate in any presidential campaign.

The situation highlights even more just how deceptive and arrogant the powers that be are who are trying to plant Hillary in the White House. Even establishment useful idiot Rush admits it isn't working and that maybe Hillary isn't the right candidate. The establishment's desperate attempts to belittle Dr. Paul as he emerges as the only first tier candidate running for either party shows how terrified those interests are of the Dr. Paul because his momentum means people are aware of the fraud that's been going on for a long, long time.

The powers that be that are literally raping this country and Iraq, Afghanistan, and soon, perhaps Iran; that don't discuss the NAU which is modelled after the EU; that excuse torture, illegal spying and the rape of the American taxpayer; that are collapsing the economy by design; and are forcing the myth of Global Warming down our throats because the war on terror myths don't scare us anymore, are beginning to recognize that their fraud and deception is being called for what it is, and their shills like the Democratic Congress and fools like this writer are not helping them achieve their ends. When a light is shone on their methods, the criminal fascist elite are exposed as the scurrying insects they are.

In the past, the medium was the message, but today the message is the medium, and if your message contains truth, the medium will carry it around the planet in an instant. If not, you had better own every media outlet in existance, like Fox news, to saturate your message everywhere, but even then the truth will still surface. If you are Dr. Paul, though, all you have to do is tell the truth and stick with the truth no matter what is thrown at you, and your message resonates with millions. And the truth will also, as we all know, set us free.

To the author of this little propoganda piece: You sir, are not a writer, but a high paid Republican whore.

I agree. Seeing as this was at the Atlantic Monthly I expected far more than this odd and simplistic dismissal of Ron Paul. Yes, he did seem to draw boos for his foreign policy – but there also appears to be a story there since it was the first time. Furthermore, in the cellphone texting poll that FOX replaced their web polls with to be more sure to avoid hacking Ron Paul was far and away the favorite. I find the congressman refreshing, honest, experienced, and knowledgeable.

I like Ron Paul, but if I have to hear Ron Paul supporters talk about Ronald McDonald ending the Cold War for the next 8 years, I'll vote democratic.

It's not like Reagan went into Russia and started blasting away with an M16. He did some good things just like the other Presidents and elected officals before him. You guys have all shot up way too much Reagan and you need to get off the needle. Besides, how big was our deficit when he left?

The fake republicans like Romney, Guiliani, Thomson, McCain are all scumbags who are fakers and not conservative in any form and shape. These dumb-heads change like chameleon changes its colors. What we need is a real republican like Hunter or Paul.

The republican frontrunners are such a joke. These super rich white politicians gather on America's Pravada network to trash a woman. Thats all they do. Why do republicans treat women like this? No wonder they treat their wives like this. They all are married multiple times, have cheated on their wives, kept mistresses, and have supported senator who visits a prostitute. They want to bring something to compete with Taliban.

Ron Paul was the ONLY Republican that I saw in the debate tonight... I'm not sure what category to put all the rest of them in but they sure as hell couldn't belong to the GOP that I joined 40 years ago. Ghandi proved that truth is the only weapon capable of defeating tyranny and Ron Paul is shaking the neocon tree with its simple message.

Why did Fox give Rudy, Romney, and Thompson so much more time to speak than Ron Paul?

And why did they ask Rudy, Romney, and Thompson questions that were designed for them?

People the media has already told you who your candidates are... RUDY, ROMNEY and MCCAIN...Than they field test which of them is more acceptable and slap them together... Ron Paul clearly is the Republican Presidential Nominee. I agree it's damn strange he said very radical comments about the Iraq war in the first few debates and I have heard very loud applause for him. This time boos? I have a friend that attended that said that before hand allot of people were given a flyer asking which candidates they liked most, and guess what? Those who liked the above three candidates were overwhelmingly welcomed.

After reading 'Where The Right Went Wrong'. I have left the Democrats Forever! My whole family (17 altogether voting for Ron Paul! I believe in the Traditional Republican Party and not the Zion-cons.

One last note people to consider... Ron Paul stands for the Constitution, The Constitution says that we have the right to bare arms... and the people have the right to over throw the government if it no longer becomes as government for the people of the people and by the people....
I wonder how far along it will be before we absolutely have to invoke this right?

Dr. Paul sounded like to only candidate with a logical perspective on the missile defense situation with Russia. If Russia installed missile bases in Mexico and Canada we'd probably react similarly. Sounds like Guilani wants to "outspend" them and start up another Cold War. The commentator in the room with the sample audience exemplified the stupidity of the chumps running the debate by claiming that because no one in his group of 30 thinks Dr. Paul won, the poll is "stacked". Dumbass.

Huckabee is the breakout candidate..the focus group showed how he connected with the audience..2 of them said they came as Fred supporters and now supported Mike..he squashed everyone at the FRC onsite poll with 51%..Romney was next with 13%..Hannity said it is now being talked about as the top 5 instead of the top 4..his online donations are increasing rapidly now as people are realizing he is "the real deal"
And last but not least he is the man that will not only support the Fair Tax but will sell it!
First time I have ever contributed to any candidate and I am reading more and more people making that same comment.

summary:

Giuliani: "I rebuilt 9/11 with my bare hands and personally raised the children of all the fallen heroes in New York, in addition to lowering crime by 400% and giving every New Yorker a thousand dollars and a Christmas card."

Romney: "Hillary Clinton wants to give terrorists keys to the White House. In Massachusetts, I personally stopped the marriage of a man and a horse, and secured our borders by ensuring that Massachusetts remained at least one state away from any other country. Hillary Clinton wants you to abort your child even if they've already been born!"

McCain: "When I was in 'nam-- that's right, I was in 'nam as a P.O.W.-- we had Charlie all around us. Two of my buddies went down in the rice paddies of Da Nang, and I was still able to command the U.S. Navy and win World War II retroactively. Also I was in Vietnam, did you know that?"

Ron Paul: "Keep the government away from my tax dollars! What was the question again? I can't hear you because I'm farking a hundred years old."

Huckabee: "Jesus is Lord. Praise his name. Did I mention Jesus is Lord? Also, I'm changing my party from Republican to the ForJesus party."

Everyone else: "Hey assholes, we're running too. Ask us some questions!"

Yep, Romney won the debate and Giuliani came in close second. The others all seem to be fading into second tier dream land. The stakes are getting higher and there is no more room for slip ups.

Marc, you sure aren't as charitable to Ron Paul in your reporting as you are to the other losers.

If the boos come from Giuliani supporters and/or the same people who think Saddam did 9/11 then who cares? Did you happen to hear Rudy's principles on gay marriage. If one or two states do it, fine, but if more do than we need an amendment. The man is not intelligible and neither are his supporters. If Giuliani wins we should just eliminate public education on the spot because it cannot be fixed if we pump out people that damn stupid. The main problem is most of the country don't read books. Instead of explaining it watch Network and listen to Howard Beaule's rant about "the tube". It perfectly explains the problem in this country and people like Marc talk about superficial crap instead of educating his readers. I wonder if Marc actually educates himself for that matter.

Learn facts, establish factual premises, realize how little you know, and then tell me your opinion.

Lunatic republican party is full of flipfloppers.

Giuliani in 2004

New York Daily News, March 8, 2004
Rudy opposes gay nups ban
By James Gordon Meek, Daily News Washington Bureau

WASHINGTON - Rudy Giuliani came out yesterday against President Bush's call for a ban on gay marriage.

The former mayor, who Vice President Cheney joked the other night is after his job, vigorously defended the President on his post-9/11 leadership but made clear he disagrees with Bush's proposal to rewrite the Constitution to outlaw gays and lesbians from tying the knot.

Giuliani today

Perkins: Giuliani supports marriage amendment
The Hill
By Sam Youngman
October 20, 2007

Tony Perkins, head of the Family Research Council, told The Hill Saturday that former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani (R) would support a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.

Perkins said Giuliani told him in a private meeting that if the Defense of Marriage Act appeared to be failing or if multiple states began to legalize same-sex marriages, then he would support the constitutional amendment.

The Paulbots are out in force again.

Doesn't change the fact that Congressman Paul is a moonbat on several scores and has no chance of taking the GOP nod or of ever getting elected to the Presidency. Thank our merciful God.

Ron Paul would be the best president this nation has ever seen since the founding days of this country. He has the only backbone left in a Republican party full of neo-cons and ex-democrats : Bush. At least Gore and Kerry and Clinton are liberal and proud of it! Bush and the rest of the GOP field are wolves in sheeps clothing waiting to devour us in a rage of socialism. Only difference is that Romney would just do it a little slower than Clinton. Go Ron Paul! You have my prayers and the prayers of millions of other true Americans.

Duncan Hunter did very well. He is the candidate I will vote for because he is the one real conservative in the bunch who really cares about Americans and America without having to put on.

RON PAUL does not fly in his friends to fill the seats nor does he buy the voting machines that malfunction and don't give any receipt.
Get your Ron Paul dollars for tax free tips.
Spread the word:
Of the People, By the People and For the People. RON PAUL THE CONSTITUTIONALIST
the bravest Patriot with the guts to bring our soldiers right home.
Check his voting record: it's true. ronpaul2008.com
Ron Paul will CLOSE OUR BORDERS
stop the robbery of American taxpayers.
This spell checker thinks 'constitutionalist' is an error & I beg to differ! PEACE OUT

Giuliani should get some props from Ezra Klein: he accurately pointed out that Medicare is in much worse shape than Social Security and is a much more serious problem.

Except that, as Ezra notes, Giuliani's healthcare policy is, in essence, 'ew, France'. Sorry, no.

Romney is the best potential LEADER out of the bunch. I think the odds are moving in his favor at this point.

Ron Paul is the most pure IDEALOGUE -- I like what he has to say about most subjects, especially with respect to the authority and size of the federal government. His view on the Iraq war is unrealistic but his view of bringing home the military from other areas makes a lot of sense. I doubt a small government Republican or libertarian will make it to the presidency this time around.


How will the religious conservatives explain how a man like Giulani who admits he has had a mistress with each of his marriages NOW be accepted by the Family Research Council.

They punished Clinton with impeachment for a five minuite affair and now they are willing to
accept long term extra maritial affairs.

The Democrats will laugh all the way to White House.

Twisting around Gov Romney's change of heart on abortion and pretending he's a flip flopper like John Kerry, just to get your sleezy candidates elected, is dishonest and a huge mistake. That wasn't a debate, it was a gang bang. Anyone pulling that is not going to get my vote under any circumstances, they are not qualified to be president.

And like Gov Romney, I did not realize that being for gay rights also meant I was for gay marriage, that is a new twist that dishonest and oppressive radical group has been shoving down everyone's throats and what they're getting in exchange is called BLOWBACK. They just attack and abuse anyone who won't go along with their schemes and are exploiting the rest of the gay community. A bunch of frauds and liars, Log Cabin Republicans included.

Huckabee has also been lying on the campaign trail, trying to steal credit for straw polls Romney won fair and square, flinging arrows of jealousy at him right and left over money, while talking about God out of the other side of his mouth, and the religious bigots who hate Mormons pile in behind him. Some preacher he must have been.

Huckabee also said "racism" was behind the push to enforce our borders, without ever mentioning once all the decent people who lost their jobs, had their wages undercut or their taxes and insurance skyrocket because of them, let alone their identities stolen, while being slandered and kicked to the moon if they complained the law wasn't being enforced.

McCain called them "unAmerican," pretends his amnesty bill shot down by conservatives was conservative, and accuses Romney of being a liar, while he hides his rotten behavior behind his service record, that is the same stunt Jack Murtha pulls.

And saying Romney's not a real conservative because he supported a Democrat, when Ronald Reagan actually WAS a Democrat, was stupid. You have lost your nut, McCain. And you are no better than anyone else just because you were a POW, in this country, we are ALL EQUAL according to the Constitution MY family fought for in the Revolution. I'm sorry you have a problem with that, but you are going to have to deal with it, buster.

Ron Paul supporters act like two year olds who were never taught manners at home or history in school.

They also think an OB/GYN who says things like he never knew of a woman dying in childbirth or of people being turned away from hospitals without health insurance, is fit to be the top executive in this country, when he has never held an executive position in his life.

You don't know the difference between Ron Paul's opinions and the Constitution and your big mouths do not translate into more votes, either, so grow up. I was also one of those people turned away from a hospital in the 1970's when I was sick and dying. There was no charity hospital around, like he claims. His world must be very small to make some of the statements he does.

Thompson acts like a nasty man whose only card is to condescend to the other candidates, repeatedly. He also boasted of his physical prowess, fathering two children with a younger wife, and what I saw was an old coot in bad physical shape who could very well have a heart attack if he keeps that up. He kept voting against legal reform and loser-pay bills, too. Well, we were the victims of a fraudulent workers comp claim, so he is DEFINITELY NOT my candidate.

The woman bashing coming out of his and Giuliani's campaign is out of line, too. Just because someone notices Giuliani has rotten judgment, does not handle his personal affairs in any kind of together way, and didn't care enough about anyone but himself when making his decisions, we are the ones with some kind of moral or intellectual deficit. Hannity even called us "catty." Quite the contrary, you con artists. He is a narcissist who can't even control his own mouth or behavior, he still acts like a street punk, laughing all the way through one of Ron Paul's turns in another debate and even laughing at a man with Parkinsons Disease who had his food stamps and Medicaid cut off by Giuliani! See for yourselves on YouTube!!

Can you imagine having someone with his lack of self control representing us to other nations? I can say the same for McCain and Huckabee, two other big mouths with mean and nasty natures, they try to cover with false humility. This is a national security issue, as important as any other, if not more. Nobody who cares about our safety would make someone like that President.

And bashing hippies again are we, now? Huckabee, you are clueless, you know that? If you don't like them, then stop playing their music in your band and write your own songs, if the right side of *your* brain ever got developed and you are capable.

I felt like throwing up after watching that debate, I did not feel like I identified with most of the people in that audience, I don't vote on the politics of hate for Dems OR Repubs, and as a moderate, I've had enough of being used and abused by both sides.

Either give me GOV MITT ROMNEY or say goodbye. You don't have anyone else up there worth my vote, but I do have a very high regard for REP DUNCAN HUNTER. Just not for President.

Hannity, you are losing the fight to keep the Ron Paul message bottled up.

The message from the American people will drown out the boos from the hand picked few that Fox News finds acceptable to attend.

The only person qualified to counter Hillary Clinton on the stage is Ron Paul. Can she take the intellectual high ground on health care over a physician? Can she be the person of peace over the man who voted AGAINST the Iraq resolution in the first place. Can she be the becon of freedom over over a man who carries high values yet will never force them on you? Can she be the protector of family values? Hillary will likely win over Rudy, McCain, Romney, or anyone else they throw up there.

Who do you prefer, Fox News, Hillary or Dr. Ron Paul?

You're right Hannity, we have stacked the online votes with more people voting, we have stacked the text message votes with more people, and we will stack the election booths in 2008 with lines of supporters. If Ron Paul fails to win the GOP primary, I will stay home on election day.

Stack that you facist neo-con

A Republican must win over Hillary or whichever democrat wins the nomination or we are headed ever deeper into socialism and marxism. God help us if we lose.

i think all the candiates should be asked the same amount of questions .i think duncan hunter would do alot better if they had. he is for the american citizens in all ways and will bring jobs back to the american people. check his voting record in the past , you will see he is not making it up.

This exMarine Vietnam veteran is 100% behind Ron Paul... we want this country back and we will get it back. Dr Paul is the most ethical politician that I've ever seen run... this is Hope For America.

finally a candidate with experience, high intelligence, respect for the constitution, honesty, integrity, and honor. and he is a republican!!!!! why doesn't fox news embrace him instead of trying unsuccessfully to make him look bad. RON PAUL IS THE ONLY MAN GOOD ENOUGH IN THE WHOLE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO HOLD THE HIGHEST OFFICE IN THE NATION. RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT.

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