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Risk V. Reward: The Anti-Romney Phone Calls

16 Nov 2007 01:14 pm

Whodunnit?

Here is why it is unlikely that Rudy Giuliani, Fred Thompson or any top-tier challenger to Mitt Romney had anything to do with the wave of anti-Mormon, Anti-Romney phone calls in Iowa and New Hampshire.

Think about the reward. Would the questions asked by the firm elicit any meaningful data for the campaign who wrote them? Would the relative reward of a few dozen voters changing their minds about Romney because of his Mormonism be worth the avalanche of embarassment and ill-will that would accrue to the candidate who authorized the phone calls?

Political consultants aren't stupid -- they understand that culprits eventually will out, that the profusion of citizen reporters and company moles virtually guarantees that the identity of the organization that contracted with the phone bank will one day be known.

Even if the goal is to earn media coverage by planting some audacious phone calls and then allowing the media pick up on them -- notice how the media coverage repeats the explicit anti-Mormon claims -- it's probably true that the sympathy that attaches itself to Romney washes out the reptition.

My guess: the responsible party is a free agent sympathetic to but not associated with a real campaign -- or an anti-GOP group testing messages -- or a dull party apparatchick who works for a small, inconsequential interest group funded by wealthy donors.

Comments (110)

Maybe it's Ron Paul ...

I am also a "Mormon" (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) and I am OUTRAGED at the way my religion, faith, and belief set is being bashed.

What Catholic, Baptist, Jehovah Witness, etc. would tolerate this? Even Muslims are being treated better than what they are putting Mitt Romney and my church through, and we are Christians!!!!

America was successfully founded on religious freedom.

As a resident of MA I have one thing and one thing only to say about Mitt Romney. The man is the real deal. When the ceiling tile fell in the new tunnel in Boston he came on, fired Matt Amorello and took charge of the situation. I'll never forget his first press conference on it. He had NO notes. He knew more in 24 hours about the entire project than Amorello knew after years on his hack job. It was simply amazing.

He is a born manager, a leader, and to be President you have to be a manager and a leader.

I feel for ya Debrar - it's sad that Romney is getting picked on for his faith. That would never happen to a Jewish candidate, or someone based on their race or sex. But for some reason, religious bigotry towards Mormons is permitted.

P- Thanks for the comment.

We are grown-ups and we can handle life, but what makes this media hooplah even more offensive is that falsehoods, misconceptions, partial truths, bias, hidden agendas, etc. are being stated as fact, as truth, as concrete reality -- and Mitt Romney is being used as the poster child for the LDS church.

Can ALL the candidates have their backgrounds, their faith, their faith's background, their families, their lifestyles, their associations; their EVERYTHING scrutinized, analyzed, and misconstrued … and not complain, can they come out clean?

Everyone has something in their closets, some more than others, and it is the EPITOME OF ARROGANCE AND HYPOCRISY TO hold one candidate at a level that others are not required being accountable towards.

Whether you have a designated religion or not, shouldn't ALL of the candidates be people of morals, ethics, values, and shouldn’t they ALL uphold the principles upon which this great country was raised-up and founded on?

I hate this garbage about religion. I don't care what Mitt Romney's religion is, I don't care if Fred Thompson goes to church, I don't care if John McCain has changed his religion and I don't care if Rudy has gone through two or ten wives. Just tell me your solutions to the problems of our country. That is what I am looking for.

The Morman's huff and puff outrage and squeal "bigotry" anytime a question is raised about their very questionable religion. I want to know what sorts of cons my possible President may have fallen prey to. A religion begun by a guy who had a revelation as a 14 yo boy from an angel named Maroni certainly seems like a con. It gets better....sacred underwear? celestial marriage? the end of the world happening in Missouri? American Indians as the "lost tribes of Israel? whew! And we're concerned about Romney"s flip flops!

The American public needs to know the following facts about Mitt Romney and his Religion:

According to Mormons, God was once a man like us and we can one day become a God like him. (Though in fact that wouldn't be much of a change at all, since according to Mormon theology God is not omnipresent but has a physical body much like our own and lives on a planet which orbits the star "Kolob.") According to Mormons Jesus Christ is a created being who was chosen to become earth's savior rather than his brother Satan because Jesus submitted a superior plan of salvation than his brother Satan submitted. Mormons do not view God as a Trinity but believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit to be three entirely separate beings.

Temple Mormons are required to wear special underwear, they call this underwear "garments", this underwear has special masonic symbols sewn over their chest and knee. Since Mitt Romney is a Temple Mormon I am sure he wears this. Temple Mormons are given a new name in the temple, this is the name that they must use to get into heaven. So, Mitt has been given his secret name. Mrs. Romney has also been given a secret name that she can only tell Mitt so he can call her (by her temple secret name) to get her into heaven. Mormons are also taught secret handshakes. They believe the Book of Mormon before the Bible, as they state, "We believe the Bible as far it is translated correctly" but they consider the Book of Mormon to be the absoulute word of God. The Bible is secondary to the BOM! This is the main sign of a cult, they have their own book that trumps the Bible. Mormons are also widely considered to be a cult because they teach that there is no salvation outside of their Church and that we must accept their leaders, including Joseph Smith, as God's prophets if we are ever going to enter into the kingdom of God.

Does any of this sound like Christianity? Not to me!

Do a web search on Mormonism. Its not hard to find the truth about this corruption of Christianity. There is no doubt that Mormons preach a "different good news" than that which was preached by the apostles. And the apostle Paul said that anyone doing so will be eternally condemned. (Gal. 1:8,9)

Do you realize how large the LDS church is, and how fast it is growing? There are tons of people who believe the same things which Mitt Romney believes, and you live next door to many of them. You benefit from them in times of disasters, you hear about them helping other people, you find that many of them are used as role models.

Do you know that the Catholic Church, the church of President John F. Kennedy, is ALSO considered a cult?

I think Mitt Romney HAS shown you how he does business; you are only grabbing at things that you can cause rancor over. Mitt Romney is not trying to convert you to his religion, so you do not need to agree with ONE WORD of the LDS church’s doctrine.

If your desire was to have Mitt Romney as President, you would care less about his religion. So, the point is that you do not want him for President and therefore try to make an issue out of anything you feel might benefit your cause -- whether it is true, misconstrued, irrelevant, biased, or nonsensical.

Romney is not running for an ecclesiastic position, he is running for the President of the United States of America. His actions have shown his values, just as the other candidates running for this important position have shown theirs.

Sounds like Michael was behind the anti-Romney calls :)

RE: Michael Satterlee

Wow I am impressed! I am a practicing Mormon and get sick an tired of the ludicrous claims some of these anti-mormon whackos come up with. Most of it is patently untrue and has been debunked repeatedly by Mormons over the years, so answering those questions is tiresome at best. However most everything you say is accurate. I would beg to differ that I need to call upon my Wife's secret name for her to get into Heaven, she is by no means dependant on my salavation for her own. There is a doctrine that exists that is similar to that, but it is probably too much to go into on a political blog, but I assure you it does not prevent anyone from entering heaven.

We do recognize the Bible as Holy Scripture and the word of God, we just realize that over the years there have been Translation errors, and that the decision by commitee on which books were to be included in the Bible, occurred many years after we feel that the church had been corrupted.

So now that I have given weight to everything you post.....So What?

What does it matter on whether he can be President? I don't see any of these concepts affecting his policy decisions. I have heard that people are afraid of someone who aspires to Godhood being president, but hey the only way to do that is to live a righteous life. So if anything he has more incentive to be a good president so that he doesn't lose that priveledge in the after-life. What would you lose by being a bad president? I assume you are Born Again and thus already saved. Would you lose your Harp Playing priveledges?

The American public needs to know the following facts about Mitt Romney and his Religion:

According to Mormons, God was once a man like us and we can one day become a God like him. (Though in fact that wouldn't be much of a change at all, since according to Mormon theology God is not omnipresent but has a physical body much like our own and lives on a planet which orbits the star "Kolob.")
-We believe that we can attain exaltation, and be like Gods, however God will still be OUR God forever. Also, in my 19 years of being the church I have never heard "Kolob" at church or out of the mouths of any of the Prophets. The only people I hear that from are anti-mormons who try to make us sound like a cult.

According to Mormons Jesus Christ is a created being who was chosen to become earth's savior rather than his brother Satan because Jesus submitted a superior plan of salvation than his brother Satan submitted. Mormons do not view God as a Trinity but believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit to be three entirely separate beings.
-We believe that in the pre-existence we were all spirit brothers and sisters. We do not think of Jesus and Satan as LITERAL brothers...you are right in the trinity. We believe they are three seperate beings, but you know the whole concept of the trinity wasn't even introduced until later, notice how in the bible the trinity isn't mentioned once.
Temple Mormons are required to wear special underwear, they call this underwear "garments", this underwear has special masonic symbols sewn over their chest and knee. Since Mitt Romney is a Temple Mormon I am sure he wears this. Temple Mormons are given a new name in the temple, this is the name that they must use to get into heaven. So, Mitt has been given his secret name. Mrs. Romney has also been given a secret name that she can only tell Mitt so he can call her (by her temple secret name) to get her into heaven. Mormons are also taught secret handshakes.
-Temple Garments are just to remind you of covenants you made with God. It's like somebody wearing a cross. And all the other stuff you said doesn't matter, it may be considered weird but there are certain things in every religion that make it different from others.
They believe the Book of Mormon before the Bible, as they state, "We believe the Bible as far it is translated correctly" but they consider the Book of Mormon to be the absoulute word of God. The Bible is secondary to the BOM! This is the main sign of a cult, they have their own book that trumps the Bible. Mormons are also widely considered to be a cult because they teach that there is no salvation outside of their Church and that we must accept their leaders, including Joseph Smith, as God's prophets if we are ever going to enter into the kingdom of God.
-We hold the Bible on the same level as The Book Of Mormon and believe they both testify of Jesus Christ. There is lots of evidence that the Bible HAS been changed over all these years, that is why we say as far as it is translated correctly. Since the BOM was translated in the 1800s it has not had time to be changed and it stands as the original copy.
Does any of this sound like Christianity? Not to me!
-Go and read the articles of faith for what we really believe, if you look at the positive rather then all the skewed mis represented negatives you will find that there are far more positive christian aspects to mormonism. The fact that our whole church is based around Jesus Christ makes us some form of christianity. Not mainstream, but none the less still christian. Look up the definition of a Christian in the dictionary it says something to the affect of "a follower of Jesus Christ".
Do a web search on Mormonism. Its not hard to find the truth about this corruption of Christianity. There is no doubt that Mormons preach a "different good news" than that which was preached by the apostles. And the apostle Paul said that anyone doing so will be eternally condemned. (Gal. 1:8,9)
-Not everything you read on the internet is true. Anybody can make any religion sound horrible if you try. Try this..go to LDS.ORG

The day-long response to this incident, especially what I am beginning to sense as being somewhat orchestrated, is leading me to believe that it may be some kind of provocation (not unlike the old Russian concept of "provocatsia") or even what is known in the trade as "Black Propaganda." There is just a little to much screeching in response for my sensabilities. This "poll" is nothing compared to the viscious pre-primary "push polls" used against Steve Forbes in 1996 and against McCain in 2000 or that have been used against a number of other prominent candidates making disparaging inuendo about their religion or personal lives.

It is an outright prevarication that Mitt's church is not Christian. It is more First Century Christian than any other denomination. Members of the church believe every word of the original Greek New Testament, and spend twice as much time studying the Bible as they do studying the Book of Mormon.

Check http://MormonsAreChristian.blogspot.com for details.

Debra,

You say: Romney is not running for an ecclesiastic position, he is running for the President of the United States of America.

To me and many others, Romney's choice of religion tells us a lot about whether or not the man has good judgment and whether or not he might be easily deceived by our county's enemies. If Mitt will believe that the God of the Bible is a man who lives on a planet near the star Kolob, and believes this man/God from Kolob requires his worshippers to wear special underwear what else will he believe? Maybe anything Vladimir Putin and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad tell him.

Romney is a lousy leader who cares if he's Mormon he ruined Ma. and the GOP in Ma. its probably the GOP in ma. making the calls. Dump Mitt in 08.

This could be a tricked played by smart-as* Romney himself to gain some sympathy votes.

*****The company accused of the push polling, Western Wats Inc., their VP for operations is a Mitt Romney contributor! WELCH, JEFFREY MR. CEDARA HILLS, UT 84062 WESTERN WATS INC./BUSINESS MANAGE ROMNEY, MITT VIA ROMNEY FOR PRESIDENT INC. 09/30/2007 500.00 27931366119.

I think someone (Romney) is trying to round up sympathy votes. This fish stinks! ****************

Andrew:

You wrote: There is lots of evidence that the Bible HAS been changed over all these years, that is why we say as far as it is translated correctly. Since the BOM was translated in the 1800s it has not had time to be changed and it stands as the original copy.

First of all, you are wrong. The BOM has been changed many times since it was first "translated" in the 1800s. But even if you are right, which you are not - do some research, how would we know if it was translated correctly when Joseph Smith first supposedly "translated" it in the 1800s? No one saw "golden plates" he supposedly translated the BOM from but Joseph Smith. Then he says an angel took the plates back to heaven with him. How convenient.

This article is interresting and poignant. As for the previous poster - Michael Satterlee - he needs to get his facts straight.

Mormons believe that the Bibls is equal to the Book of Mormon in every respect - this has been stated time and again by all their leaders. Translation is not just an issue for Mormons, it is for all Christianity - which version do you use: NIV, KJT, Vulgate, etc..? Mormons are allowed to state their preference in translations just the same as any other Christian, and that is all the "as far as it is translated correctly" statement means.

Mormons do believe that the glory of God is omnipresent, but that he does have a distinct physical being that can only be in one place at a time. This is based, among other sources, upon teachings in the Bible (see Genesis 1:26-27, Acts 17:28). Also based upon these scriptures, as well as many others in the Bible, Mormons have a belief that God is the Father and that we are His children. Mormons do believe that the Father wants, and has prepared a way through Jesus Christ, for all his children to learn to be like him.

Mormons do not believe that Jesus submitted a better plan than Satan to Heavenly Father and that is why he is our Savior (as Michael stated above). Mormons do believe that Jesus is the offspring of God (His only Begotten Son - just as He is described in the Bible), and God himself, and that Jesus was called upon to be our Savior by Heavenly Father. Mormons also believe that Satan is contrary to God and wanted to usurp God's plan, and did submitt to Heavenly Father a seperate plan that was rejected by Heavenly Father). But Jesus only did the will of the Father (John 5:30), so you are wholey incorrect in your statements.

By the way, the concept of the "Trinity" is an old Christian tradition that is never mentioned anywhere in the Bible. Try to find the world trinity anywhere in any Bible and you will not locate it - no matter the translation. It is tradition and not Biblical in origin. Mormons are not necessarilly conventionally-traditional Christians, but they do believe in revealed scripture as written by prophets. They do believe completely in the Bible (and they believe in correct translations, not incorrect ones), as well as other scriptures that they believe testify of the divinity of Jesus and have been revealed by the miraculous work of God.

Mormons also believe that one does not need to rely soley upon tradition to understand the salvation of Jesus. They believe in modern-day prophets and continued revelation. They believe that God is the same yesterday, today and forever (Heb. 13:8) and that if He talked to prophets in the past, there is no reason to suppose that he has changed and now no longer talks to prophets (Amos 3:6).

And Yes, I am Mormon. If you want to know what a Mormon believes, ask one. I beleive in the things that I have written, not the falsities of Michael Satterlee - who obviously bases his belief about Mormons on false teachings that he learned from someone that apparently hates Mormons. Check your sources, that's all we ever ask.

Mitt would make an awesome President and handle the office with dignity, fighting for the traditional family values held by most Christians, and with supurb accumen, intelligence and managment ability. At least that is what I believe. Which is more than I can say for nearly any other candidate out there.


By and large any controversy in this matter has swirled around two
doctrinal issues—our view of the Godhead and our belief in the principle of
continuing revelation leading to an open scriptural canon. In addressing this
we do not need to be apologists for our faith, but we would like not to be
misunderstood. So with a desire to increase understanding and unequivocally
declare our Christianity, I speak today on the first of those two doctrinal
issues just mentioned.


Our first and foremost article of faith in The Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter-day Saints is “We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son,
Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.”2
We believe these three divine persons constituting a single Godhead are united
in purpose, in manner, in testimony, in mission. We believe Them to be filled
with the same godly sense of mercy and love, justice and grace, patience,
forgiveness, and redemption. I think it is accurate to say we believe They are
one in every significant and eternal aspect imaginable except believing
Them to be three persons combined in one substance, a Trinitarian notion never
set forth in the scriptures because it is not true.


Indeed no less a source than the stalwart Harper’s Bible Dictionary
records that “the formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great
church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in
the [New Testament].”3


So any criticism that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
does not hold the contemporary Christian view of God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost
is not a comment about our commitment to Christ but rather a recognition
(accurate, I might add) that our view of the Godhead breaks with post–New
Testament Christian history and returns to the doctrine taught by Jesus
Himself. Now, a word about that post–New Testament history might be helpful.

Debrar,

You are a moronic hyprocrite. Muslims have as much of a right to religious freedom as freaks like you do, yet you think they should be persecuted more than you for not being Christians? Because you consider Catholicism to be a cult, America should be poking fun at Catholics instead of people of your faith? Have you ever heard of the Golden Rule?

And because the Mormon church encourages its members to help out their neighbors, is your point that the rest of America somehow owes them? Also, there are people from every faith that are viewed as role models so I don't understand your point. If you are representative of how all Mormons think, we are in trouble.

Michael Satterlee –

Mitt Romney is not the only "Mormon" on this planet, and you are addressing another one when you post a personal comment to me. I hate to say it this way, but your comments are so juvenile, bigoted, and see-through that I don’t have much to say to you that would be worth my time. I know your agenda, and it is ok if you have it. Many of us see through it.

“Romney's choice of religion tells us a lot about whether or not the man has good judgment.” You could also say the same about me, and I would thank you for that. The longer that I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (“Mormon”), and if I honor my faith, the more humble, appreciative, respectful .. and respectable, trustworthy, understanding, compassionate, Christ like, wise, etc. I try to become. These are some of the goals we as LDS members strive for, to become better followers of our Savior. What more can you ask, if you were asking about religion?

However, you comment is as if he is “new out of the shoot” – Mitt Romney is an established businessman, leader, intellectual, etc.

I find your comments ludicrous, especially since you personally cannot be all religions associated with all the other candidates, and so therefore have would not agree with their religion of choice .. and yet, YOU HAVE NOT DISAGREED WITH THEIR RELIGION, OR ABILITIES DUE TO THEIR RELIGION, as well.

Why do you think there are so many religions out there? All people do not believe the same on religion. Does this mean that they are not worthy of being President of the United States of America? We have a Muslim running for office. Are you a Muslim? Do you agree with their ideologies, history, and practices? From the history of the Muslim faith, can you trust how Muslims will act in office?

We can go further; I think that I have made my point.

In the year A.D. 325 the Roman emperor Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea to address—among other things—the growing issue of God’s alleged “trinity in unity.” What emerged from the heated contentions of churchmen, philosophers, and ecclesiastical dignitaries came to be known (after another 125 years and three more major councils)4 as the Nicene Creed, with later reformulations such as the Athanasian Creed. These various evolutions and iterations of creeds—and others to come over the centuries—declared the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost to be abstract, absolute, transcendent, imminent, consubstantial, coeternal, and unknowable, without body, parts, or passions and dwelling outside space and time. In such creeds all three members are separate persons, but they are a single being, the oft-noted “mystery of the trinity.” They are three distinct persons, yet not three Gods but one. All three persons are incomprehensible, yet it is one God who is incomprehensible.

We agree with our critics on at least that point—that such a formulation for divinity is truly incomprehensible. With such a confusing definition of God being imposed upon the church, little wonder that a fourth-century monk cried out, “Woe is me! They have taken my God away from me, . . . and I know not whom to adore or to address.”5 How are we to trust, love, worship, to say nothing of strive to be like, One who is incomprehensible and unknowable? What of Jesus’s prayer to His Father in Heaven that “this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent”?6

It is not our purpose to demean any person’s belief nor the doctrine of any religion. We extend to all the same respect for their doctrine that we are asking for ours. (That, too, is an article of our faith.) But if one says we are not Christians because we do not hold a fourth- or fifth-century view of the Godhead, then what of those first Christian Saints, many of whom were eyewitnesses of the living Christ, who did not hold such a view either?7

As a resident of MA I have only one thing to say about Mitt Romney. He is a fraud. He is the classic "say anything to get elected" guy. Once he got a whiff of Potomac Fever (roughly after 2004, when his- alleged- campaign to increase the # of Republicans in the MA legislature failed miserably; we LOST further seats!) he tacked Far Right, shifting almost all of his views- esp. his social views- w/in the span of roughly six months in a craven atttempt at appeasing certain elements of the national GOP electorate. Compare the rhetoric of Romney in his '94 Senate run, or his '02 Gubernatorial run, to today's Romney. Phony. And his record of accomplishment (as opposed to rhetoric) is sparse, especially when compared to the REAL achievements of other GOP contenders (at least one of whom, as Chief Executive of his jurisdiction, and saddled w/ an equally liberal Democratic legislative branch and establishment, achieved REAL conservative results on things that mattered; tax cuts, welfare reform and reduction, privatization, crime reduction, and more.)

Having said all of this, I will also say- attacks on Romney because of his religion are deplorable, and should be roundly condemned by all respectable Republicans. There are many reasons NOT to vote for Romney- his Mormonism isn't one of them.

Michael Satterlee, Where is Heaven? Surely you must know, if it isn't Kolob, it must be somewhere? So essentially one of our Prophets had the guts to name a location, it doesn't mean anything, it in no way alters the teachings of Christ. It is essentially an obscure doctrine that is brought up to make us sound more wacky than we really are (and yes we are wacky, Mormons eat a lot of Jello, have basketball courts in their buildings and all sorts of weird stuff).

So now lets get into the crux of it, you claim it speaks to Romneys judgement based on the beleif that God perhaps was a man at one time before gaining an exalted state? You beleive the same of anyone who wears clothing with religous symbology?

I am still guessing you are a Christian of some sort, I am guessing of the evangelical variety. But in fairness I am going to play this one safe and stick with something that applies a little more universally to many of the major religions, so i will stick with the Old Testament.

You beleive that God spoke to Moses in the form of a burning bush? You beleve that somewhere there is a Cheribum with a flaming word guarding the garden of Eden, to prevent future entrance? You believe that Moses rebuked God causing him to repent of the evil he was considering (Exodus 32:11-14)? You believe that Noah literally gathered every species in pairs (and 7 of many) on a boat made of gopherwood, and that boat landed on a mountain in Turkey?

Do I really need to go on and make a mockery of other religions? Basically the questioning someones judgement based on their religion is dangerous ground unless you are wholly athiest. I suspect you wouldn't have the specific problems with mormonism that you do if you were. Let people believe as they believe and worship as they worship as long as they are not harming you.

Oh and I don't normally try to explain the underwear thing, but think of it this way, it is merely a reminder of the commitments to Christ that we have made. Why Underwear? Well based on the design they keep us moral as well. It is hard to dress provacatively in garments. They also make us think twice about participating in any event that would cause us to expose them or remove them. Believe me, when I had a very attractive woman try to seduce me once while wearing nothing but a towel, that extra little thing definitely helped me from falling into infidelity.

So back to the real question. How are you afraid that this could affect the presidency. Only now try not to say that it shows a lack of judgement, because that can only lead to an atheist being an acceptable candidate (and many feel they lack good judgement as well)

We declare it is self-evident from the scriptures that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are separate persons, three divine beings, noting such unequivocal illustrations as the Savior’s great Intercessory Prayer just mentioned, His baptism at the hands of John, the experience on the Mount of Transfiguration, and the martyrdom of Stephen—to name just four.

With these New Testament sources and more8 ringing in our ears, it may be redundant to ask what Jesus meant when He said, “The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do.”9 On another occasion He said, “I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.”10 Of His antagonists He said, “[They have] . . . seen and hated both me and my Father.”11 And there is, of course, that always deferential subordination to His Father that had Jesus say, “Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.”12 “My father is greater than I.”13

To whom was Jesus pleading so fervently all those years, including in such anguished cries as “O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me”14 and “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me”?15 To acknowledge the scriptural evidence that otherwise perfectly united members of the Godhead are nevertheless separate and distinct beings is not to be guilty of polytheism; it is, rather, part of the great revelation Jesus came to deliver concerning the nature of divine beings. Perhaps the Apostle Paul said it best: “Christ Jesus . . . being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.”16

A related reason The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is excluded from the Christian category by some is because we believe, as did the ancient prophets and apostles, in an embodied—but certainly glorified—God.17 To those who criticize this scripturally based belief, I ask at least rhetorically: If the idea of an embodied God is repugnant, why are the central doctrines and singularly most distinguishing characteristics of all Christianity the Incarnation, the Atonement, and the physical Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ? If having a body is not only not needed but not desirable by Deity, why did the Redeemer of mankind redeem His body, redeeming it from the grasp of death and the grave, guaranteeing it would never again be separated from His spirit in time or eternity?18 Any who dismiss the concept of an embodied God dismiss both the mortal and the resurrected Christ. No one claiming to be a true Christian will want to do that.

Now, to anyone within the sound of my voice who has wondered regarding our Christianity, I bear this witness. I testify that Jesus Christ is the literal, living Son of our literal, living God. This Jesus is our Savior and Redeemer who, under the guidance of the Father, was the Creator of heaven and earth and all things that in them are. I bear witness that He was born of a virgin mother, that in His lifetime He performed mighty miracles observed by legions of His disciples and by His enemies as well. I testify that He had power over death because He was divine but that He willingly subjected Himself to death for our sake because for a period of time He was also mortal. I declare that in His willing submission to death He took upon Himself the sins of the world, paying an infinite price for every sorrow and sickness, every heartache and unhappiness from Adam to the end of the world. In doing so He conquered both the grave physically and hell spiritually and set the human family free. I bear witness that He was literally resurrected from the tomb and, after ascending to His Father to complete the process of that Resurrection, He appeared, repeatedly, to hundreds of disciples in the Old World and in the New. I know He is the Holy One of Israel, the Messiah who will one day come again in final glory, to reign on earth as Lord of lords and King of kings. I know that there is no other name given under heaven whereby a man can be saved and that only by relying wholly upon His merits, mercy, and everlasting grace19 can we gain eternal life.

GO ROMNEY!!!!

Enough is enough. If these phone calls were directed toward Muslims all hell would break loose. It would be intolerant to all of that faith. The United State of America is based on freeedom. Freedom to practice any religion you choose. There is no way that Mitt Romne if elected President of The United States could ever impose his religion or belief on others as a society.

Why don't you take a look at the Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (a Mormon)and also a Democrat. Is anyone sending anti-Mormon propaganda around with his name as the one being labeled. Harry Reid is in a very powerful position in government.

Why don't we focus on issues and qualifications of the candidates, and not try to come up with some religious litmus test to decide who can or can not be President.

Probable false flag. I'm amazed when otherwise intelligent people don't take the ol' self-wound into account when something like this comes up. I mean, how hard is it to ask, cui bono?

This is disgusting. If Brownback were still in we'd assume it was him, since he proved he wasn't above anti-Mormon campaigning. I'm guessing it's a private group too.

The good news for Romney is that this is bringing him some more attention.

Degree Absolute :

Please re-read my comments and get the point I was making.

By the way, the Catholic church has been considered a cult for a very long time, longer than am I old -- which would mean that I did not pen that concept. You missed my point, including the crux of the Golden Rule which you tell me to follow. Doing unto others would probably not include calling them a "moronic hyprocrite" -- unless that is a name you also would want to go by.

Did you also know that early Christianity was also considered cultish?

Romney's campaign did this himself to preempt it happening when the voting starts. too slick and too clever by half. pretty much sums up Mitt 'Used Car Salesman' Romney

I think the best (and fairest) definition of a cult that I've heard is that a cult is a secretive organization that claims truth can only be found in their unique and secret way.

Is that the Mormon church? I'll not go into that. Honestly, I have a Mormon friend who I'd be quite willing to vote for, I can vouch for his integrity and would trust him. Romney doesn't strike me as trustworthy (nor does Guiliani for that matter). If Romney was consistent in following the LDS teachings, such as on pro-life (rather than in the 90s saying something along the lines about his dedication to preserving a woman's right to choose an abortion) -- I think a lot more social conservatives would flock to him. Honestly, the people who seem the most consistent and speak with integrity (on either party) don't seem to do well in the polls.

Regarding theology -- yes, the word "Trinity" never appears in the Bible. Neither does Kolob, FWIW. Nor does the word "Bible". Note however, that "Bible" is a useful encapsulation of a number of books that were considered Scripture (take for instance Peter's reference to those who misuse Paul's writings as they do __other__ Scriptures). Likewise the "Trinity" is a wonderful encapsulation of many scriptures found in both Old and New Testament (this is a good link describing the Scriptural support of the Trinity for those who wish to understand it better [even if not to be persuaded] http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=215)

Religion is important in a candidate -- ONLY in so much as a person has consistently been a practitioner of it AND that consistency allows us to determine if candidate X has been faithful in little then he will likely be faithful in much. Romney doesn't fit the bill as a consistent Mormon, and therefore I'd say he's really not worthy of conservative backing.

The caller is likely somebody in one of the rival campaigns who knows about companies that make political survey calls. Maybe a slightly lower level activist in the Giuliani campaign or a Mormon-hater in the Huckabee campaign.

If you are a Christian, wake up! There are far more dangerous things to be considering than whether a Mormon is in the White House. Read Romney's speech to Christians:
http://christianprophecy.blogspot.com/2007/10/mitt-romneys-speech-on-religion.html

We have three true-believer Marxists running on the Democratic side, we have Islamic Jihadists threatening to hit America again in a big way, we have millions of illegal aliens threatening to bankrupt states who pay for their welfare, we have condums being given to 11 year olds in school ... we all should be happy that a devout spritual man is willing to run for President.

I have been a member of the LDS church for 18 years and every day I become more confident that I have made the right choice. I study both the bible and the Book of Mormon.
I am a better person today than when I started, my children have turned out better than any of my brothers and sisters have. I don't drink, smoke, do drugs and I am faithful to my wife. This is not the person I started out as before I joined the church.

What is wrong with a religion that believes in God, is Christian, has standards principles and values that are in accordance with Gods word. Those principles, values and standards help us to live longer, be more humble, thankful, respectful, and the longer we are members and live the principles the better we become. What's not to like? I believe in God, I beleive in the Bible, I believe the Book of Mormon to be another testament of Jesus Christ.

I will vote for Mitt Romeny solely based on his integrity, values and track record as a leader. We need a leader in America to navigate us through some troubling times that we are facing.



I joined the church after studying these 17 points all taken from the bible. I challenge you to do the same.






Seventeen Points of the True Church


  1. Christ organized the church. Eph.
    4:11-14

  2. The church must bear the name of
    Jesus Christ. Eph. 5:23

  3. The church must have a foundation
    of Apostles & Prophets. Eph. 2:19-20

  4. The church must have the same
    organization as Christ’s church. Eph. 4:11-14

  5. The church must claim divine
    authority. Heb. 5:4-10

  6. The church must have no paid
    ministry. Isa. 45:13, 1 Peter 5:2

  7. The church must baptize by
    immersion. Matt 3:13-15

  8. The church must bestow the gift
    of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. Acts 8:14-17

  9. The church must practice divine
    healings. Mark 3:14-15

  10. The church must teach Jesus
    Christ & God are separate and distinct beings. John 17:11 &
    20:17

  11. The church must teach God & Jesus
    Christ have bodies of flesh and bone. Luke 24:36-39, Acts
    1:9-11

  12. The officers must be called by
    God. Heb. 5:4, Exodus 29:1 & 40:13-16

  13. The church must claim revelation
    from God. Amos 3:7

  14. The church must be a missionary
    church. Matt. 28:19-20

  15. The church must be a restored
    church. Acts 3:19-20

  16. The church must practice baptisms
    for the dead. 1 Cor. 15:15 & 29

  17. By their fruits ye shall know
    them. Matt. 7:20


Why are these things important? Heb. 13:8



This is pathetic...every single Mitt blog digresses like this one. Is anyone here interested in America?

And don't say "Yes that's why I'm scared of Mormons"...it's just religious bigotry.

I know those of you hating on Mormons don't think of yourselves that way...but it's true.

Debrar,

If I was spouting hypocritical nonsense like you are, then yes, I would expect to labeled as a moronic hypocrite.

Don't patronize me. I know that Christianity was an underground religion for centuries and that it did not become dominant until Constantine converted on his death bed. But, again whats your point? Are you saying when Romney becomes President he going to make Mormonism the official religion of the United States like Constantine did with Christianity in order to cast off its cult status?

Explain yourself. You make no sense.

Mormons Rule!

RE: Satterlee

I'm also an evangelical Christian, but I'm also attuned to the fact that the choice we make in this next election is between 2 people(not 3, 4, etc). These people in all likelihood will not hold all of our same viewpoints on religion, abortion, etc.

If you're so concerned about Governor Romney's specific religious beliefs and will not look to the content of his character - then you have every right to not vote for him.

If you honestly care about who leads this country - in the "real world" we're living in then vote with "common sense" on the choices for this position and who will best support them out of the 2 choices that we will be left with.

I disagree w/ a number of the 17 points:
Seventeen Points of the True Church

2. The church must bear the name of Jesus Christ. Eph. 5:23
That verse is certainly out of context, nor does it say anything about the "name" of Jesus Christ. It talks about Jesus being the head of the church.

5. The church must claim divine authority. Heb. 5:4-10
That is poorly worded -- those who minister must be called by God is a much more accurate statement!

6. The church must have no paid ministry. Isa. 45:13, 1 Peter 5:2

What utter nonsense, that directly contradicts Paul: 1Co 9:9-14 and 1 Ti 5:18 (which in context say the exact opposite!). Now if you say it is voluntary, that is another matter, but "must" is not a criteria of the "true" church.

8. The church must bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. Acts 8:14-17

Acts 2:4 shows that laying on of hands is not necessary. This is not a criteria for a true church. Having the Holy Spirit indwell is a criteria for a true believer, however.


9. The church must practice divine healings. Mark 3:14-15

As before.

10. The church must teach Jesus Christ & God are separate and distinct beings. John 17:11 & 20:17

And the Church must teach that Jesus Christ and God are the same as well -- "I and the father are one." Jn 10:30.

11. The church must teach God & Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bone. Luke 24:36-39, Acts 1:9-11

Nonsense -- what about Psalm 91 -- does God have wings then? Certainly Jesus has a body of flesh and bone.

15. The church must be a restored church. Acts 3:19-20
That is a misstatement of the scriptures -- a more fair rendering of the scripture verses mentioned is that people need to repent to receive God's mercy. The church is not mentioned, and again the way this point is stated is definitely not a criteria for a valid church.

16. The church must practice baptisms for the dead. 1 Cor. 15:15 & 29

This is a very weak point -- for one, 1 Cor 15:15 and surrounding context says that IF Christ was not raised from the dead we have no hope and are to be pitied above all men for having a vain hope that surely dooms us (note the IF).

This is the only reference in the Bible of baptism of the dead, and it is unclear was was meant. But given that 15:15 doesn't support 29 in the way it seems to be implied in your point, I'd say using 29 for a "must" is a dangerous requirement.

Guys i dont like mormons that much, but Romney rocks

lots of moromon posts, but let's be blunt, mormonism is yet another wacky cult that has the sense to be corporatist (and tax exempt, thanks to our generous tax laws) and is out (along with its surrogate, mitt romney) for naked political power.

granted, romney has changed his positions on the issues so many times that i can see that as another compelling reason to oppose him.

mormonism has a patina of christian theology grafted onto a faith that isnt really christian at all. which is ok, but let's be up front about it.

it will be interesting to see if christian fundamentalists are dumb enough to fall for this pig in a poke and buy a ticket onto the mormon express.

you think bush circumscibes our liberties, just wait until the mormon power brokers get a shot at control!

I didn't see Mitt circumscribe liberties in Massachusetts, or when saving the Olympics from disaster in Utah. I don't think you can denigrate Mitt by comparing him to Bush, because first of all, the comparison is far fetched, and second, because Bush is fighting a war, perhaps the most difficult war we've ever fought because these aren't soldiers in uniform representing a specific nation we're battling, but a guerilla force that is everywhere and nowhere. Maybe you should be glad you're still alive and kicking rather than wiped off the face of the Earth by some nuclear munition that the War on Terror prevented from being delivered to your city. How we tend to carp about ghosts and joust with windmills!

Well at a minimum this is just as offensive as I find the ongoing Fox News polls and their "push" polling and reporting. They continue to show Governor Romney receiving 7-8%, even though they are the so-called "fair and balanced" folks. Yeah right. EVERY other pollster shows Romney in the mid-teens at this point.

Now that Reagan has exposed the FOX CEO, the Mob, and NewsCorp as being total Julie Annie supporters, it explains everything.

It's about time we all consider boycotting Fox News and Hannity for their blatant Julie Annie favoritism and hypocritical claims to be anti-biased and fair reporters. One look at the latest Fox News poll speaks volumes. Are they polling another America than the one in which I live, or even yet, is there some "tampering" going on here? Jeez!

While I am mormon, I don't support Romney. I simply have different political views. But for all those who see his religion as an easy target, I do ask you to think of how you would like it if the tables were turned. I'll respect your views and your religion. It really is not too much to ask to get the same treatment in return.

Degree Absolute:

Hmmmmmm, regarding your very odd question about Mitt Romney, Mormonism and Constantine, the answer is: "No". Where do you come up with this stuff?

And about explaining myself, I have no interest; I have nothing to explain or qualify, nor do I have the desire. The thought of spending one iota of my time or effort in trying to communicate something which is of great value to me, which means nothing to you but possibly an opportunity for coming up with an entirely different meaning and spin (peppered with snide remarks), is not something I have planned for this weekend.

However, don’t let me stop you. Please, feel free to explain yourself for the rest of us to review and evaluate. The floor is yours, we're listening.

I have been a Mormon all of my life. All of my ancestors have been Mormon for five generations. I admit that some of the beliefs and practices are weird. I am confused;however,how these beliefs are weirder than other religions. Catholics believe bread magically turns into Jesus, Moslems believe Mohammed was superior to Jesus and yet I find the Koran to be boring and have not a single new idea in it. It just seems to be very repetitive. Protestants believe everybody goes to Hell forever except for them. Honestly people I can not see how these religions are less weirder than my own. Sorry.

I have been a Mormon all of my life. All of my ancestors have been Mormon for five generations. I admit that some of the beliefs and practices are weird. I am confused;however,how these beliefs are weirder than other religions. Catholics believe bread magically turns into Jesus, Moslems believe Mohammed was superior to Jesus and yet I find the Koran to be boring and have not a single new idea in it. It just seems to be very repetitive. Protestants believe everybody goes to Hell forever except for them. Honestly people I can not see how these religions are less weirder than my own. Sorry.

I met Mitt Romney tonight at the home of Steven and Sandra Covey and was extremely impressed with the man. I have had indirect dealings with him via his leadership in the Olympics in 2002. He doesn't just talk.

Mitt is modest, committed to American ideals, and has a solid proposition for strengthening America, beginning with its people rather than its bureaucracy.

I don't know how else to say this:

I want to be part of Mitt's America. Mitt is a visionary, a leader, and if Mormonism has anything to do with it, all the better. Will Democrats and other opponents of Mitt really stoop so low as to incite religious intolerance and bigotry from coast to coast? Is power that important to them? Then give them power, but make it over a cell in Guantanamo... They, or whoever is behind these attacks, are terrorizing America.

Joel,

You asked: Where is Heaven? Surely you must know, if it isn't Kolob, it must be somewhere?

Jesus told us, "God is a spirit." (John 4:24) And he said, "A spirit does not have flesh and bones." (Luke 24:39) God is not a physical being and because he is not he is not confined to a few cubic feet somewhere within our physical universe. Height, width, depth, and time are all merely dimensions of our physical universe. A universe which God created for his physical creations to occupy. If you create a birdcage for your parakeets to occupy it is unlikely that you are going to confine yourself to some small spot within that cage, though you may place your hand in it from time to time in order to tend your birds.

You wrote: So now lets get into the crux of it, you claim it speaks to Romneys judgement based on the beleif that God perhaps was a man at one time before gaining an exalted state?

No, I say it speaks to his judgment that he believes the claims of Mormonism. The Book of Mormon describes a vast pre-Columbian culture that supposedly existed for centuries in North and South America. It goes into amazingly specific detail describing the civilizations erected by the "Nephites" and "Lamanites," who it says were Jews who fled Palestine, built massive cities in the New World, farmed the land, produced works of art, and fought large-scale wars which culminated in the utter destruction of the Nephites in A.D. 421. The awkward part for the Mormon church is the total lack of historical and archaeological evidence to support the Book of Mormon in any of this. For example, after the cataclysmic last battle fought between the Nephites and Lamanites, there was no one left to clean up the mess. Hundreds of thousands of men and beasts allegedly perished in that battle, and the ground was strewn with weapons and armor. Keep in mind that A.D. 421 is just yesterday in archaeological terms. It should be easy to locate and retrieve copious evidence of such a battle, and there hasn’t been enough time for the weapons and armor to turn to dust. The Bible tells of similar battles which took place long before A.D. 421, battles which archaeologists have been able verify. The embarrassing truth—embarrassing for Mormons, that is—is that no scientist, Mormon or otherwise, has been able to find anything to substantiate that such a great battle took place. The Book of Mormon is filled with many such "archeological" problems.

There are several other kinds of problems with the Book of Mormon. For example, the only Bible that Joseph Smith relied on was the King James Version. This translation was based on a good but imperfect set of Greek and Hebrew manuscripts of the Bible commonly called the Textus Receptus. Since the King James Bible was translated from this set of manuscripts many older manuscripts have been found clearly showing that the manuscripts from which the KJV was translated contains errors, which means the King James Version contains errors. The problem for Mormons is that these exact same errors show up in the Book of Mormon. It seems reasonable to assume that if Smith was a prophet of God and was translating the Book of Mormon under divine inspiration, the now known errors which then existed in Smith's KJV Bible would not have been "translated" into the Book of Mormon. But the errors went in.

Why does the Book of Mormon use old KJV type English when it was supposedly translated at a time when it was not currently used?

Why is about 1/8th of the Book of Mormon appear to have been copied directly from the KJV (1611AD) when it was alleged to have been written some 1200-2000 years before the KJV existed?

If the original 1830 Book of Mormon was inspired than why were there so many errors and changes and additions and deletions, when compared to current editions? Some examples:

Original 1830 Edition, Book of Mormon compared to later Editions - 1837, 1888, 1920, 1964, 1978

Title page
Joseph Smith, Jr. The author and proprietor of this work
Joseph Smith, Jr. the translator of this work

Title page
now if there be fault, it be the mistake of men...
now if there are faults, they are the mistakes of men...

1 Ne 13:40
the lamb of God is the Eternal Father
the lamb of God is the son of the Eternal Father

1Nephi 11:21
the Eternal Father
son of the Eternal Father

1 Nephi 11:32
the Everlasting God
son of the Everlasting God

1 Nephi 20:1
words added
or out of the waters of Baptism

2 Nephi 12:9
the mean man boweth down
the mean man boweth not down

Alma 29:4
Yea, decreeth unto them decrees which are unalterable
words deleted

Alma 37:21,24
directors
Interpreters


Mosiah 21:28; Ether 4:1
king Benjamin
Mosiah (Benjamin was dead at this time)

1 Nephi 12:18
Jesus Christ
Messiah (Jesus had not yet been revealed to the Nephites)

1 Nephi 20:1
come forth out of the waters of Judah
or out of the waters of baptism (these words added after "Judah"

Much has been written in recent years that DNA studies have found no link between American Indian populations and Jewish peoples. It is almost certainly in response to these studies that a change has very recently been made to the Book of Mormons. In the Introduction to recent editions of the Book of Mormon the second paragraph reads: “The book was written by many ancient prophets by the spirit of prophecy and revelation. Their words, written on gold plates, were quoted and abridged by a prophet-historian named Mormon. The record gives an account of the two great civilizations. One came from Jerusalem in 600 B.C., and afterward separated into two nations, known as the Nephites and the Lamanites. The other came much earlier when the Lord confounded the tongues at the Tower of Babel. This group is known as the Jaredites. After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians.” This was included in the first printing runs of the Doubleday Edition. In the latest printing of the Doubleday Edition of the Book of Mormon, the last sentence was changed to read: “...After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are among the ancestors of the American Indians.”

You asked: You beleive that God spoke to Moses in the form of a burning bush? ... etc.

There are many difficult passages in the Bible. But none that can be so easily proven to be false as the many claims made by Mormons.

Mitt's father George had to give up his run for the presidency after admitting that he had been "brainwashed" in his beliefs about the Vietnam war. It seems to me that many Christians' real concern about Mitt Romney's religion is that by his being so willing and able to accept all of the highly questionable claims of his church, it appears that, like his father, he may be someone who is far too easily misled about important matters.

There’s a reason that we don’t always talk religion or politics, it’s because people have so many varying viewpoints. When John F. Kennedy was running for President of the United States, he did not ask anyone to agree with his beliefs (to some people, the Catholic Church has some strange practices and beliefs – hence, there are many religions out there), nor did he have to qualify or represent the theology behind his faith. What he did do was inform the nation that he would be independent of the Pope, and would make decisions as the President of this country, not the president, or representative, of his church.

That you have tried to make some association between George Romney, his feelings about the Vietnam War and his run for the Presidency, as some kind of connection to his religion is so far stretched that it’s humorous. Not only did people have all kinds of views about the Vietnam war while it was in progress, we still – even today -- have all kinds of views about what really happened, how we really feel, what the plan “shoulda”, “coulda”, and “woulda” been. With that kind of thinking, we can’t number how many people were “brain washed”, mislead, confused, etc. over the Vietnam War. Isn’t this a war that we still continue to verbally fight over? Some people think we pulled out too soon, others think we stayed in too long. John Kerry was labeled a traitor to our nation for what went on with him during the Vietnam War.

So, with your way of thinking in mind, here are some questions. These questions do not require a written response:

President Lyndon B. Johnson, who was a Disciple of Christ, a member of the Stone-Campbell (Restoration Movement) denomination known as the “Christian Church” (Disciplines of Christ), was the president during the Vietnam War; we have many thoughts on how he handled the war, did his religion play a part? How can we know? Are you a member of his church? Do you agree with his religion? If you disagree with his religion, does that mean his religion is wrong? Was he told not to practice his religion while serving as the President of the United States of America? If someone does not agree with his religion, does that mean that his religion is wrong?

Debrar,

You wrote: You have tried to make some association between George Romney, his feelings about the Vietnam War and his run for the Presidency, as some kind of connection to his religion.

George Romney's religion had very little to do with his failed presidential campaign. George's campaign failed because he admitted that he had been "brainwashed" about the Vietnam war. He admitted that he had allowed himself to be greatly misled about one very important matter. Knowing that George Romney was able to be "brainwashed" in one very important matter caused people to lose confidence in his ability to make sound judgements in other very important matters.

Today most Christians consider Mormons to be people who have allowed themselves to become greatly misled in one very important matter, their religious beliefs. Because they see Mitt Romney as someone who was able to be "brainwashed" in one very important matter they doubt his ability to make sound judgements in other very important matters.

TOO ALL MORMONS:

It's a shame the there is so much contention between Mormons and those that hate Mormons. Especially the debate over doctrine and the tit for tat that accompanies it.

As a mormon I get tired of other mormons who feel it is their duty to defend the faith. give it a rest. I have yet to read a blog where an anti mormon like Michael Sattelerlee say "oh thank you for teaching me - I was wrong please send over the mormon missionaries to baptize me!"

It's sad that so many mormons reduce themselves to bashing and cite lame so called proofs like "the 17 points of the true church".. Gee all this time i thought that truth came to men though the Holy Ghost. True or not, nobody buys into the LDS church doctrine because of that tired old list. It embarrasses me.

Defending Mormonism in connection with support of Mitt Romney is as deplorable as condemning him in connection with it. If you want to debate, then defend Mitt on his record and his virtues - leave the church out of it and let the anti-mormon people do their thing - follow the counsel of the Savior rather than argue about it. Forgive, turn the other cheek, bless them that curse you, do unto to others as you would have them do unto you.


... And there shall be no disputations among you, as there have hitherto been; neither shall there be disputations among you concerning the points of my doctrine, as there have hitherto been.
For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.
Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away. (3ne 11:28-30)

One cannot improve on the words of king Benjamin “now if you believe these things see that you do them”( Mosiah 4:10)

Look, if these people want to slander the church who cares? Furthermore who cares if Mitt wins or loose - it is certainly not a victory or a loss for the church anymore than the unfortunate rise of mormon Harry Reed is. Church and state are separate in this country and it needs to stay that way.

Sure I’ll vote for Mitt – I’ll probably even send in my $2,300 to his camp before its all over. If he losses I can still pray, and go to church and live my religion according to the dictates of my own conscience. In the mean time we need to allow others to have the same privilege let the worship how where or what they may. If they are misinformed about temples or temple clothing or whatever, lets forgive them seventy times seven.

Now Mike and Joel and the rest of you - shake hands and say something positive about each others church - come on now - say something nice. You guys are brothers created by the same Heavenly Father – so lets treat each other that way.

Michael Satterlee

You must not have seen the website "EVANGELICALS FOR MITT"
http://www.evangelicalsformitt.org/


I do not want to argue with you over religious beliefs, no one really wins. I am a “Mormon” (a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) and am aware that there are those out there who do not, and will never, agree with my belief system. This is quite alright; we have religious freedom in America. To say that most Christians consider Mormons to be misled is not true; our church has 13 MILLION world wide members, and growing. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20070626/ai_n19324355


It is obvious that your underlying reason for your assorted comments on this website is due to your personal religious beliefs. No one wants to take those from you, just as no one wants theirs to be taken from them. We can coexist in this nation, just as we can coexist on this blog.

IT IS FAR BETTER TO FIND REASONS TO UNITE, RATHER THAN TO FIND REASONS TO DIVIDE.

“Can’t we all just get along?”

Some writers here have expressed concern about what religious "cons" Romney has fallen for as an indicator that he would lack judgment to be president.

Our country was founded by a wide variety of men who held a wide variety of religious beliefs. Some were deists, some Christians, some Jews, some Masons. Some believed some really whacko stuff, but they created the ultimate rational document of governance--the Constitution.

Kennedy believed the cracker the Priest put on his tongue turned into the literal body of Christ. An irrational belief to most, but a pretty good President. That belief didn't interfere with his ability to handle the Russians.

Lincoln attended sayances in the white house at his wife's request. An irrational belief to most, but a great President. That belief didn't interfere with his vision to free the slaves.

A truckload of Presidents believed Moses parted the red sea, Jesus walked on water, and that Elijah called fire down from heaven. All irrational notions which were yet held by rational men. Such is the province of religion.

Romney believes in many irrational things but he is a most rational man. Of all the candidates, no one has showed better judgment, business acumen, leadership and intelligence than Romney. The man loves to wallow in the data, studies, graphs and charts before he makes a decision. Point out all the weirdness of Mormonism that you want, but you can't escape this fact: Romney is the most rational fact following data crunching of all the candidates. As inconsistent as that seems to his religion, Romney if given the chance will be great for America.

I think the LDS is a cult, however that wouldn't for a second prevent me from voting for Mitt. The guy built a healthy business, saved the Sal