Obama And The Smear

Via Ben Smith, an evaluation of a thinly-veiled, fairly intellectually attempt to tie Barack Obama to the Muslim faith...from a writer, Daniel Pipes, who is clearly not a fan of the Muslim faith.

More significantly, how would more mainstream Muslims respond to him, would they be angry at what they would consider his apostasy? That reaction is a real possibility, one that could undermine his initiatives toward the Muslim world.

What's so interesting is how easily and quickly, after just a few early news accounts, the false notion that Obama is or was ever Muslim has made it into mainstream discourse. (The distinction between being raised in a family associated with a certain religion and being -- assuming -- the identity of a practitioner of said religion is, I think, a distinction worth preserving, particularly when we're talking about a little kid. The available evidence suggests that Obama was raised by his Christian mother, was exposed to a variety of religions by his family and friends growing up, and later solidified his Christian faith by formally accepting Christ as his lord and savior.)

Not just Ex-Sen. Bob Kerrey -- Obama is occasionally asked about his "Muslim" upbringing by legitimate interviewers, (like Natalie Jacobson, who spoke with him before she retired from Boston's WCVB earlier in the year.). And it occasionally comes up in Q and A sessions with voters. And the media -- myself included, I guess -- seem to obsess about the implications of both the false allegation of his faith and the reasons why it's damaging, in America, to be associated with that religion.

Comments

Obama biggest mistake is not confronting the issue head on. He always trys to wave it away with a quick reference to the fact that he attends a Christian church and his dad wasn't a religeous man and that is about it.

Obviously it is more complex than that and Obama has dealt with the complexities.

We know Obama's mother was a self described atheist. Obama says he dad was very religeous. We know there are members of Obama's family who are Muslims. So how did Obama find faith? How did he settle on a religion?

Obama seems very hesistant to discuss this.

Posted by Dickie Flatts | December 31, 2007 11:36 AM

I doubt Obama was avoiding the issue, he had already described it all in his book, Dreams of my Father, years ago. The media simply proves again that they can't read.

Posted by Mark, NY | December 31, 2007 11:41 AM

It's damaging to be associated with Islam because of the Sept. 11th attacks on America. It's a political dead end. Obama has very succesfully connected with Evangelical leaders and pastors in South Carolina and across America in part to (1) go after votes Dems have conceded but (2) more importantly insulate himself from attacks because of his father (who was an atheist) religion.

I think that the news media takes on these rumors and legitimizes them by accepting the premise of the original statements instead of calling them out as lies in some attempt to remain impartial and merely observers when they are actually being used as conduits for damaging allegations. That is why the false statement that Obama has ever been a Muslim made it into the discourse: he was apparently called Barry as a kid and hasn't practiced the Islamic faith. But rather than take him at his word; there seems to be this attempt at making him prove his faith. Much like Romeny has to prove himself a real Christian to some.

It's disturbing and its something that is across the board and ideological spectrum. I think Smith was reporting on something legitimate; but in doing so now Obama's campaign has to decide how to respond to this rather than focus on closing their campaign.

It's frustrating supporting him for President with this crap being thrown while rumors of Edwards love child and Hillary's lesbian lovers are never even considered to be referenced: while somehow the idea that Barack Obama is a secret Muslim is deemed credible by intelligent news organizations and journalists. But that's life, it's not supposed to be fair. It'd be nice if the fourth estate would step in and play referre more often rather than have fact checks; I thought that was what reporting was supposed to be not some impartial and dis-engaged summarization of the position of all parties. But the truth to the best of the ability of reporters to tell it.

Mitt Romney shouldn't have had to give a speech to get coverage on his faith and what it truly means. Obama probably has to do the same thing to get the public to know that, yeah, he's a Christian.

Posted by Rhoda | December 31, 2007 11:46 AM

More importantly Obama has been a public servant all his life, from a community organizer in the rough South Side of Chicago, to a civil rights lawyer, US Constitutional Law Professor, Illinois State Senator and US Senator. Obama turned down big Wall Street offers after graduating Magna Cum Laude from Harvard Law and president of the Harvard Law Review to return to Chicago and practice Civil Rights law and to teach US Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago.

Obama is the only top Democratic candidate who strongly opposed the Iraq war before it started, has an actual legislative record of fighting corporate lobbyists and has the natural ability and inclination to bring Democrats, Republicans and Independents together who may not agree on the size and shape of our government but do agree our government should be better, more transparent, more ethical and more fair. That is our common ground we need to unite around to end an era of divisive politics and take back our country from corporate special interests.

Posted by Todd Smyth | December 31, 2007 11:49 AM

As someone who grew up in a foreign country, I had muslim friends at school (a Catholic school as it turns out). I have no particular problem with that faith. Where my parents lived, we had muslim neighbors and I did not grow up with any negative feeling towards Islam since the Islam I was exposed to was a peaceful religion.

Now, I also think you are minimizing Obama's muslim upbringing. Your statement "What's so interesting is how easily and quickly, after just a few early news accounts, the false notion that Obama is or was ever Muslim has made it into mainstream discourse" is problematic. I don't think it is a false notion that Obama when he was a child was raised as a muslim. By all accounts, he did go to Mosque regularly, he did attend classes on Koran. If that is not being raised as a Muslim then I don't know what is. Of course, when a child grows up, he/she is free to adopt any other religion including atheism. But, to cavalierly dismiss Obama's muslim upbringing as you do is misleading. First of all, it seems to suggest that there is something wrong in being brought up as a Muslim. There isn't. Take an analogous situation. Bobby Jindal was brought up as a Hindu. Later in his life he embraced Catholicism. What is wrong in acknowledging (as he has) that he was raised as a Hindu before he became a Christian?

What I find bothersome is Obama's minimizing his muslim upbringing and the press (including you) acting as if the mere mention of Obama's muslim upbringing is some kind of smear. Now, the motives of people like Daniel Pipes who bring it up should be called into question. But, I would not put Bob Kerrey in the same category as Daniel Pipes.

I wish Obama would say aomething simple like, "I was raised as a Muslim when I was a child. When I became an adult I chose Christianity over Islam." Now, one can raise the question of (as in the case of Bobby Jindal) whether this embrace of Christianity was politically expedient. I think it is impossible for even a moderate, practicing muslim to be elected to high office in this country. That is quite unfortunate.

I hope you will address this issue more in your blog.

Posted by Jack | December 31, 2007 11:53 AM

Dickie Flatts, what exactly are you trying to insinuate? Obama's wrote two freaking books where he talked at length about his Christian beliefs and how he became a Chistian. He hasn't been hesistant to discuss his Chistian faith at all.

Dickie, you're either a religious bigot or some cynical political operative. Either way, you're scum.

Posted by Dan Johnson | December 31, 2007 11:55 AM

Mr. Jack S**t, please provide a credible link proving this statement: "By all accounts, he did go to Mosque regularly, he did attend classes on Koran."

And no, the blogs of right wing conspiracy theorists don't count as "credible links."

Posted by Dan Johnson | December 31, 2007 12:01 PM

Jack,

Your post is filled with inaccuracies. Read his book and read interviews from his family members. According to his half Indonesian sister, her father was a non practicing Muslim. Lolo, Barack's stepdad, only attended mosque on holy days and didn't even subscribe to Muslim dietary rules. He also went to a Catholic school where he read the bible and prayed Catholic prayers. Does that make him a Catholic, now? He was raised by an agnostic mother, non-practicing Protestant grandparents, and was the son of an atheist who was raised Muslim as a child. Obama is a Christian, his sister, the daughter of the lapsed Indonesian Muslim and the agnostic American is now a Buddhist.

Do yourself a favor and actually read his book and articles where his own family and friends talk about their actual relative and the various beliefs and non-beliefs of the Obamas, Dunhams, and Soetoros.

Posted by TS | December 31, 2007 12:04 PM

First of all, Dan, I am on your side. You seem to think someone going to Mosque or reading Koran is a bad thing. There is a LA Times article which has interviews of Obama's friends which show that he did go to Mosque and attend classes on Koran. As I emphasize, I don't find anything wrong with that.

Instead of calling me names, why don't you look into your own heart? Do you think a person brought up as a muslim disqualifies him from national office? I don't think so. In fact, I don't think a candidate's religious background matters at all.

Here is the LA Times article with a reprint in Baltimore Sun. This is an article by Paul Watson of LA Times which is not exactly a rightwing outlet. Have you seen this article?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/bal-te.obama16mar16,0,1634059,print.story?coll=bal_news_nation_promo

I am happy to discuss thus further after you have calmed down.

Posted by Jack | December 31, 2007 12:12 PM

Quit playing defense for Obama, Ambinder. Obama's first book carried the title "Dreams From my Father," so it's a little disengenous to say that his father's beliefs and customs (including religous beliefs) don't matter. No one seems shy about fleshing out the influences of Mormonism on a potential Romney presidency, so why the kid gloves for Obama? Obama and his supporters, including the Atlantic's Andrew Sullivan, have explicitly made the case that Obama's race, skin color and multi-culti backround would be an asset in conducting foreign policy, particularly with the muslim world. Fine, let's flesh that contention out a bit, as Pipes tries to do in his article. Don't claim something as an asset unless you are ready to accept the baggage that goes along with it.

Posted by rtwing | December 31, 2007 12:16 PM

TS,

Please see my response to Dan. I don't think there is anything I said that was inaccurate. I have the same question for you? Why do you all react so negatively to the fact that Obama was raised as a Muslim when he was a child? As a child, it wasn't his choice like most of us didn't have a choice when we were children. His step-father was a muslim in a muslim majority country and did what was normal which was to enroll him as a muslim.

Jack

Posted by Jack | December 31, 2007 12:19 PM

rtwing,

His father's "belief" as atheism. He did not believe their was a God. So what is your point? You say his father's beliefs matter. His father was an atheist. So what is your point?

Posted by TS | December 31, 2007 12:19 PM

Wow! It's scandalous enough that Obama had begun scheming for the presidency back in kindergartern...now we find out that he doesn't dwell on his Christian beliefs on the stump as often as, say, Huckabee and Romney.

Posted by Truesdell | December 31, 2007 12:23 PM

His mother didn't believe in organized religion. His father was an atheist. He's NOT a Muslim. He's a Christian.

UGH. Get it straight, people.

But, I do think it's positive that he's lived with and seen up close and personal a Muslim community like Indonesia.

Posted by rikyrah | December 31, 2007 12:30 PM

First of all, to the extent that you can infer that he was ever Islamic from this story, you can just as easily infer that he was Catholic. The upshot of the story is that he was neither raised as a Catholic nor Muslim, but rather just had a lot of exposure to different religions when he was a kid. So, this statement of yours is still baseless: "If that is not being raised as a Muslim then I don't know what is."

Second, Jack, I don't think being a Muslim disqualifies anyone. But there are a lot of people out there who do think this, and the fact that you're trying to spread this idea that Obama was Muslim is playing to those fears. And I have a nasty feeling like you're TRYING to play to those fears, which definitely counts as being cynical as all hell.

Posted by Dan | December 31, 2007 12:31 PM

I'm just curious... do political campaigns actually pay people to write crap in these comment areas? Because why else would someone like this "Jack" guy be trying to exploit anti-Muslim prejudice in the hope that it'll hurt Obama?

Posted by Dan | December 31, 2007 12:34 PM

Barack Obama for President.

It's time for America to Rise and Shine again.

Posted by PulSamsara | December 31, 2007 12:35 PM

Who do you work for Jack?

Posted by Dan | December 31, 2007 12:36 PM

I urge everyone to read Dreams of My Father. It's a great book and shows that the idea of Obama being "muslim" is completely ridiculous. And shame on Hillary and Co. for doing their part to push the story. She lost any chance she ever had of winning my vote right there.

Obama is obviously a very deep, thoughtful man with a wealth of experience. Belittle it as Hillary might, Obama's time in Indonesia was a very valuable learning experience. I can see how it would help him as president.

And check out this story.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aImM5qqem3OU&refer=home

Posted by waka waka | December 31, 2007 12:41 PM

The e-mail traffic on the "Obama is a Muslim" hoax is unbelievable. For reasons too painful to go into, I get a lot of misaddressed e-mail in my mailbox. I have gotten the "truth about Obama" e-mail more times than I can count. (See Chris Hayes' key article for more information on this phenomenon.)

The latest version of the e-mail notes that snopes.com meticulously researched the substance of the e-mail and has verified all of its claims. Of course, the opposite is true. I can't really imagine what would make someone write something like that.

Posted by alkali | December 31, 2007 12:41 PM

I wonder why the lie is being given ligitmacy to begin with.
That 'is he black enough' thing faded once the msm got bored with it and no one in the real world took it serious. but, right afterwards, the muslim lie took it's place.
I wonder if someone is just pushing a smear to make it a killing whisper campaign.
Obama was no religion until he joined his church.
His father and step father were of the country's religion they came from. It was muslim. Obama was raised by his mom and grandparents in America and belonged to no religion.
It's like my mother is from France and my family there is Catholic. I was raised lutheran here in America. The same thing.
Besides, we are talking of the 1960s! the 1960s were not like now. It was a totally different time and mindset in America and in the muslim world.
Besides, the act of a fanatical gang - muslim cult, were responsible for 9-11. Not the whole religion.
Jim Jones cult was not representative of the christian religion nor other fanatics here in America. Do we blame a whole religion because of fringe religion cults. It stupid to hate a whole religion and/or people - a world religion - because of a gang of fanatics.

Posted by vwcat | December 31, 2007 12:42 PM

Dan, ad hominem attacks on me is not going to change the fact that when Obama was a child in Indonesia he was raised as a muslim. You asked me for objective facts. I provided you that through the LA Times article which I read when it first appeared. I don't think anyone objective can say that just because someone attended a catholic school they are catholics. This is a laughable claim on your part.

I am a Democrat who will vote for Obama if he is our nominee. I would like Obama to take this issue head-on and not act like this is some ugly fact that needs to be hidden. Just like Jack Kennedy did or even Mitt Romney did Obama should address this in a straightforward manner and put it behind him.

Posted by Jack | December 31, 2007 12:46 PM

Dan,

I work for myself. Thanks for asking. Who do you work for?

Jack

Posted by Jack | December 31, 2007 12:48 PM

At my catholic high school in the central U.S. we took a number of classes on world religions. I wrote a lengthy paper on Buddhism and for that paper, had to interview a practicing Buddhist (no easy task in Nebraska). So I met with a local Buddhist for some time and I learned enough about Buddhism to write a 15 page paper. I was under 18. I don't believe I'm a Buddhist, though, nor do I believe it means I was raised as a Buddhist. Luckily I'm not running for office any time soon, because I don't think my Irish Catholic mother could handle hearing about her Buddhist son!

Posted by former GOP'er | December 31, 2007 12:48 PM

You know, I would love to support another Clinton presidency. BUT if it turns out that Clinton is pushing this "Obama is a muslim" hoax by having her crew go out and drop insinuations in these blog comments areas... I just don't know what I'm going to do. She'd have to be one sick freak to do that.

Posted by Dan | December 31, 2007 12:49 PM

TMP is reporting that the author of the article about Obama is a Guillianni advisor!

Posted by vwcat | December 31, 2007 12:50 PM

I'm a student in grad school, so not working for anyone.

Posted by Dan | December 31, 2007 12:51 PM

Jack, you said, "I don't think anyone objective can say that just because someone attended a catholic school they are catholics." No, I'm saying that Obama allegedly prayed to Catholic saints . . . that's what the article said. He alledegly said Islamic prayers at some point too. The article claims that too. So from these allegations you conclude that he was a Muslim? But Muslims don't pray to Catholic saints, so even assuming these allegations are true, your inference that he's Muslim is invalid.

Presuming the story's facts are all true, it sounds a lot more like his family had him dabble in this and that religion just to give him exposure. In no way does it sound like he was actually raised in any particular religion.

Jack, you work for yourself... so you got to sell something to clients, right? I wonder what you sell and who your clients are.

Posted by Dan | December 31, 2007 1:07 PM

JUST READ HIS BOOK! Senator Obama has nothing to hide, not like some of the others. Why does the so called MSM keep this alive? Confront these people that are pushing these lies, don't just keep spreading them.

Posted by Carolyn Grace | December 31, 2007 1:08 PM

Well, at least Snopes is now considered a strong and accurate enough source that the fascist propagandists are trying to co-opt it instead of minimize it.

Progress.

-GSD

Posted by GSD | December 31, 2007 1:08 PM

Dan, you are being childish! Just because I have a different view on this matter than you do doesn't mean you have to start questioning my motives and start insinuating things. I am a concerned citizen just like you.

Is this what they teach you at grad school?

Posted by Jack | December 31, 2007 1:15 PM

Jack,

Right, you're just a "concerned citizen" who's trying to exploit anti-Muslim prejudice for political purposes.

FYI: At grad school, they teach us to look through bull s**t.

Posted by Dan | December 31, 2007 1:22 PM

This is weird and pathetic. Why even mention such a wacky article from a neo-con loon? No mainstream Republican has ever really tried to connect Obama with the Muslim faith.

http://political-buzz.com/

Posted by matt | December 31, 2007 1:46 PM

I read the Pipes column in question and I don't think he's a muslim. Would it be illegitimate to vote against him for being one? No. Obama's real religion problem will stem from his association with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Let's just say that the good Reverend has some views that will package up real nice for some 2008 attack adds. They'll make the Swiftboat adds (again, entirely legit) look like a student council election.

Dan, great riposte about all the insights you've garnered from attending grad school. Christ, that sounds like a line from a character in South Park. Priceless.

Posted by rtwing | December 31, 2007 1:47 PM

You are all losers,like me.

HRC/Her Majesty will win. Think of Shaheen; Think of Bill on Rose and Bill chasing Register female editors; Think of Penn on Hardball; Think of Kerrey endorsement of HRC.

All points to these 32 items:

- Obama is a muslim.
- Obama sells drugs.
- Obama is a risky choice for America.

It is obvious. During those mid-Dec. times, 8% of voters thought that these 3 items were true.

Get it? Now we are late Dec. early Jan. This number is closer to 20%.

Who is the biggest loser? The US Press. The freedom of press is down the toilet.

No one in the Press, including Marc A., had the courage to call Clinton on their bad behavior. No one. No one. No one.

Posted by eorse | December 31, 2007 1:52 PM

I'm a Muslim American and I think it goes against the American Constitution of Freedom of Religion to state that because I am a Muslim American I am not fit or suitable for office in America. Quite the opposite my friends. Quite the opposite. As you soon will see, people of faith leading this Great country.

Posted by Lawrence | December 31, 2007 1:54 PM

Dan - I think it is Clinton pushing this story, or at least contributing to it. There's too much smoke for there not to be some fire there.

Last winter we heard from Insight that the Clinton campaign was pushing the madrassa story to them and other right wing outlets. Clinton denied her campaign had anything to do with it.

More recently we heard from Bob Novak that the Clinton campaign was pushing the PAC story to him and other right wing columnists. Clinton denied her campaign had anything to do with it. Except this time, Novak followed up, named the individuals from the campaign and named others they tried to get to run with the story.

Novak's detailed account sounds credible to me. And if its credible, that means the Clinton campaign did it, and then flatly lied about doing it. This makes it harder for me to dismiss the first one about the madrassa education with Insight.

Couple that with staffers getting caught forwarding the Muslim "truth" e-mail from campaign computers, and Bob Kerrey's recent episode.

Plus, add in that its exactly the same way the Clinton camp pursued the cocaine line of attack.

There's no way for an objective person to at least suspect her campaign is involved. Her denials don't carry any water with me - she's lost any benefit of doubt. She's also lost any chance of having my support if she's the nominee, though I don't think she will be.

Posted by Paul | December 31, 2007 1:55 PM

Dan, this is getting out of hand. I will try this one more time and then stop because you are resorting to school-yard name calling and bullying tactics.

Yes, there is anti-Muslim prejudice in this country. But the way to counter that is not to sweep under the rug Obama's muslim background. The way to counter that is to openly acknowledge that when Obama was a child in Indonesia he was raised as a muslim by his muslim step-father. This doesn't mean that as a child Obama had any great understanding of Islam or chose it voluntarily. Anyway, as the LA Times article makes abundantly clear the Islam of 1960s Indonesia was a gentle, moderate Islam. When Obama became an adult he chose Christianity and today he is a Christian. This is what he needs to say openly and clearly. I personally don't care what his religion is. My decisions to vote for or against a candidate is not based on religion.

You fear that any discussion of his muslim background will turn voters against him. There is probably a minority of Americans who would do that. I think a vast majority would not care. Trying to deny his Muslim background is a political mistake. Because this would lead to a stealth campaign against him (the ons you and others have referred to here) which he will not be in a position to counter. All this would do is lead to more bigotry, confusion, and all kinds of vicious rumors against him. He should give a speech on this matter and have a press conference (just like Jack Kennedy did) and answer any and all questions on this matter. That will put this to rest once and for all.

Jack

Posted by Jack | December 31, 2007 1:56 PM

Rtwing, let me draw an analogy. Just because I go to a Catholic Church doesn't mean that I think using contraception is a sin. Heck, I don't even think that life starts at conception. So, how could anyone legitimately claim that Wright's views are automatically Obama's? You can go to a church without believing everything the church is saying, right?

Granted, I am getting a little angry here, but trying to exploit bigotry for political purposes is something that's worth getting a little angry over. Heck, even though I really didn't want Bush to win in '04, I also got pissed when Edwards blew that "Cheney's daughter is a lesbian" dog whistle during the vice presidential debates. Seriously, isn't that stuff just, well, sick and wrong?

Posted by Dan | December 31, 2007 1:59 PM

Jack, the article you linked to says, "At the local primary school, he prayed in thanks to a Catholic saint." How many Muslims do you know who pray to Catholic saints? None, because Muslims don't pray to saints. So, he wasn't raised as a Muslim. Please respond.

I mean, I'll put it this way... my family had Jewish friends, and every so often we'd go to Synangogue just so I can get exposure to it. That doesn't mean I was raised Jewish when I prayed whatever Jewish prayers I said.

Posted by Dan | December 31, 2007 2:09 PM

The point being... it looks a lot more likely that his parents were just trying to expose him to various religions -- and Islam happened to be one of those religions. That doesn't amount to being "raised a Muslim."

Posted by Dan | December 31, 2007 2:11 PM

I have been reading these entries with some interest. So let me get my religion out of the way.

I am Muslim and an immigrant

I am also a veteran of the US Marine Corp.

I also volunteer regularly to various comminity organizations in my area.

I AM NOT working for any campaign.

Now that that is out of the way.

I think one should consider that fact Obama did mention his childhood years in his book. On the face of it does pass the "smell test". However in the same vain, it doesnt hurt to ask a question....One that i've been dying to ask but I dont live in Iowa.

The question - did he include his childhood contact with Islam in his book to "inoculate" himself from future questions when he runs for office (any office)

I personally think not but it is a question worth asking.

The more curious religious question is the Romney religious issue and how conservative Republicans will vote. Mostly, Democrats are the big tent folks and open, but the Republicans tend not to be so "open" to religious diversity when it comes to electing candidates.

As a Marine, I got to see the world and serve/work with pple of every religion; and let me tell you all - its the quality of the individual that makes a difference when discussing leaders.

Here we go

Posted by Here we go | December 31, 2007 2:15 PM

Dan,

There is more context to this later in the LA Times article (see the third paragraph in particular and the paragraphs below that). This is what leads me to believe that he was raised as a muslim by his step-father when he was a child. Mind you, I am not suggesting that this is a big deal or anything. It is just a fact, that is all.

"In 1968, Obama began first grade at St. Francis Assisi Foundation School, just around the corner from his home.

The Catholic elementary school had opened the previous year and wanted to enroll as many students as possible, so it welcomed children of any religion, said Israella Dharmawan, 63, his first-grade teacher.

"At that time, Barry was also praying in a Catholic way, but Barry was Muslim," Dharmawan said in Obama's old classroom, where she still teaches 39 years later. "He was registered as a Muslim because his father, Lolo Soetoro, was Muslim."

Like all pupils, Obama had to pray before and after each class, and cross himself in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, Dharmawan said.

After St. Francis, Obama completed third and fourth grades in what is now called Model Primary School Menteng 1 in central Jakarta. Opened by Indonesia's former Dutch colonial rulers, the public school screens for the best students with writing tests and interviews. Several of its students have gone on to join Indonesia's elite.

Bugs have eaten Obama's file in the school's archive, said Vice Principal Hardi Priyono. But two of his teachers, former Vice Principal Tine *Hahiyari and third-grade teacher Effendi, said they remember clearly that at this school, too, he was registered as a Muslim, which determined what class he attended during weekly religion lessons.

"Muslim students were taught by a Muslim teacher, and Christian students were taught by a Christian teacher," said Effendi, who, like many Indonesians, uses only one name."

By the by, I studied in a Catholic school until the third grade. I also recited "Holy Mary Mother of God" everyday even though I am not a Catholic and never ever considered myself a Catholic. This is what all the kids of different religious faiths who went to that school did. We went to that school because they provided the best education.

Posted by Jack | December 31, 2007 2:20 PM

When I read that LA Times article the first time I thought (and I still do) that it was a positive article about Obama. I focused on the part about how he was a natural leader and how he protected the younger kids from bullying. That is what stood out for me. I still don't understand why his campaign is reacting so defensively to this issue.

Posted by Jack | December 31, 2007 2:28 PM

Here we go,

Re: "did he include his childhood contact with Islam in his book to 'inoculate' himself from future questions when he runs for office."

If he was trying to "inoculate" himself, he evidently didn't do a very good job. ;-) In reality, I think he was just trying to write an interesting book about his goofy mixed up childhood.

To the extent he was trying to run for any office at the time he wrote the book, he might of had his eyes on being the mayor of Chicago. He does spend a lot of the book talking about Harold Washington, after all. But I don't think anyone in Chicago would really be paranoid about Obama being raised a Muslim -- that's just not something that sets off people in Chicago. So, I don't think he included the stuff about being exposed to Islam in his book to "inoculate" himself.

Posted by Dan | December 31, 2007 2:29 PM

The way the Clinton people are smearing Obama about the Muslim issue is to do so in a subtle, "plausibly deniable, nixonian" way.

Bob Kerrey going out and saying he thinks it is so great that Obama went to a "secular madrassa" is a prime example of this. Bascially you cynically go out and say, "well, he has a muslim background and that's ok" because you know that you are spreading the message to bigots who will not "agree" with you, and will have in fresh in their minds that Obama is some scary "other."

That commenter Jack, I believe, is channelling the nixonian/Kerrey method of introducing the smear but trying to avaid blowback by pretending to really be an Obama admirer or supporter. No true Obama supporter would expend so much energy "defending" his muslim backgound. Please.

What's funny is that Ambinder here is also cynical enough to echo chamber the rumor by posting a blog wondering about the echo chamber effect.

You'll notice that when there are personal issues potentially damaging to other candidates (i.e. the sex lives of Hillary, Bill, and John Edwards) there is no echo chamber. Drudge stories and Enqurier stories are all but ignored. But when its about Obama, the media outlets cynically pick them up and echo chamber them, often cynically doing so under the pretense of knocking them down.

HIllary is the character assassin; the media is her all-to-willing accomplice.

These people don't want our country to be brought together. They are parasites that feed off the hyperpartisan decay of our country and they crave the 4 additional years of partisan warfare that Hillary will bring them along with ratings, book sales, etc. They are crafty and clever and wily in their ways to cut down Obama with plausible deniability and to minimze blowback to themselves.

Let's hope the good people of Iowa will send a message to these bottom feeders that we are a better country than that.

Posted by RKA | December 31, 2007 2:32 PM

Wow, Dan. That grad school education is truly a force to be reckoned with. The Cartesian-like logic and power of your analogy might persuade me except for the fact that Obama himself claims Wright as his personal mentor who "keeps his moral compass in line." I'm not in grad school or anything, but I think that might disprove your analogy. Also, I'm truly moved by your commitment to fight religous persecution. Could you be so kind as to refer us to your posts protesting the anti-mormon bigotry directed towards Romney? And again, if someone decided they didn't want to vote for romney because of the stranger aspects of Mormonism, so what? Grow up.

Posted by rtwing | December 31, 2007 2:34 PM

Jack,

Let's presume that this handful of people trying to remember random things that happened 39 years ago about a random student is as accurate as you think. It's not terribly likely, but whatever...

So, a few people say, "He was registered as a Muslim because his father, Lolo Soetoro, was Muslim." So, evidently they had this rule that whatever religion the father was, the kid would be placed with students in that religion. I don't see how an administrative technicality amounts to being "raised in a religion." It still looks like he had a non-religious childhood. At most, it looks like to equivalent of sending your kid to a Jesuit school even though you're not religious so you can give the kid a better education.

Posted by dan | December 31, 2007 2:41 PM

RKA - I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but your comment about why the media would want Clinton to win does match something I heard this weekend on a political talkshow.

It was some radio program simultaneously broadcasted over C-Span (don't remember the name). At the end of this long, and pretty interesting discussion about the race, the host asked one of his guests which candidate as a journalist he would most enjoy in the White House.

The guy smiled and without hesitating said (my best paraphrasing to follow): "I'm not saying it would be best thing for the country, but as a journalist Clinton would be the most fun. It would be like a four-year day at the circus."

Posted by Paul | December 31, 2007 2:43 PM

I think when someone puts forth their name for candidacy, and then they pretty much open themselves to criticism on most levels. I think questions and criticism of records are fair game as long as they don't degenerate into outright insults. But this is politics and the blowback is, "do I want to vote for someone who isn't going to defend him/her self". So far it, all these candidates are doing their best to defend their records etc.

However, the American pple have a genuine distaste for outright bigotry. Whether Republican or Democrat, we need a President that is able to put context around facts. Personal experience or learned experience; either way we need a President that will have the depth to take raw information and analyze it for both long term and short term.

All this talk about Muslims, Mormons, Catholics etc. are irrevant as to a candidates capabilities; but they are relevant to voters across the country and candidates should take the time and dispell fears/errors - cause at the end of the day it is they who are asking for our votes

Posted by Here we go | December 31, 2007 2:47 PM

Dan,

We have reached some kind of convergence here. At this point our differences come down to individual definitions of what "being raised as a muslim" means. From the Islam I was exposed to when I was a kid, if someone had a muslim father, registered in school as a muslim, went to mosque and attended Koran classes (even if occasionally) we thought of them as muslims. In the above sentence, you can replace the world muslim, mosque and Koran with christian, church and bible and you will see what I mean.

Anyway, that is all I have to say on this.

Posted by Jack | December 31, 2007 2:57 PM

rtwing... you're right, the reason I particularly feel strongly about the "anti-muslim" dog whistle being used against Obama is because I like Obama and want to defend him. I don't like Romney and don't really feel compelled to defend him, though obviously it's true that the anti-morman prejudice is totally sick and wrong too. Maybe if I had every day off I could dedicate myself to fighting prejudice in a less biased fashion, but that doesn't look like it's going to happen soon. ;-)

Re: the analogy, I think of the Catholic Church as "keeping my moral compass in line," just like what Obama says about Wright... but that doesn't means I believe every last thing the church says. So there's nothing magical about the words "keeps his moral compass in line" that proves Obama automatically believes everything Wright believes.

Posted by dan | December 31, 2007 2:57 PM

Paul, you don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to recognize that generally groups of people act in their own interest. It's human nature. There is an objective case to be made that a Hillary victory is in the media's best interest. You can sell a lot of candy at a circus.

Peope will argue that barack has generally gotten good coverage over the last few months, and say, "Aha! This proves the media is fair or even biased for Obama." But the fact of the matter is that had Obama's campaign made 10% of the mistakes that HIllary's has over the past few months, the media would have stuck a fork in Obama and declared him done. Comparing the numerator (coverage) without nothing the vastly different denominators (campaign performance) is yet another intellectually dishonest trick employed by folks like Halperin and Kurtz to argue that HIllary was supposedly getting unfair coverage .

This is not about conspiracies; it's just pure financial self-interest. It's not surprising that the media puts its needs above that of the countries, just like it should not shock us that the corporate

It's all about the benjamins, I am afraid.

Posted by RKA | December 31, 2007 3:01 PM

Jack,

One more thing...

The story is based on the claims of 3 or 4 people who, when asked about a random kid they haven't seen in 39 years, claimed to remember him being registered as a Muslim. I mean, this is supposed to be definitive factual evidence?

Posted by Dan | December 31, 2007 3:06 PM

Part of the problem Pipes is pointing out that is obscured by the Dem's and celebrity's messianic devotion to Obama as the moral redeemer of guilty liberal whites and Hollywood jews by virtue of his biracial skin color and Muslim roots is they want to have their cake and eat it too.

On one hand, Obama enthusiasts say that the young man with no executive experience will be warmly welcomed by Muslims and Redeem America in their eyes from his Muslim background and 4 years as a child in a Muslim country - on the other hand, they deny that Islam made any significant impact or required any commitment from a child aged 6 to 10. And call any association of Obama with Islam "a rank smear".

This contradiction is worth exploring.

Particularly, as Pipes objectively notes, his actual impact in Muslim eyes.

And Muslims abroad have weighed in on this pretty heavily because they think from US media that Obama has a great chance of running America.

First, they generally consider him born a Muslim because of the religion of the father and the mother's acquiescence that he be listed as of Muslim faith on documents and in his status (a Muslim child) in Indonesian school. Who read Koran and attended Mosque.

Second, they all say that classic liberal Democrat identity politics don't fly in the Ummah when it comes to relations with America - it is US policy that they hate - not the racial and religious background of leaders in the foreign land of America.

Third, to the extent that Obama started as a Muslim and drifted away from the true faith opens discussions of the mortal sin of apostasy with Muslims and the question of the fault of the negligent father who left his children and the step-father that did not sue for custody to protect Obama and keep him safe from other religions. That debate is quite lively because a good deal of Muslims believe that Islam is a "roach motel" religion (though they would never call it that) you can check in anytime you like, but never leave without Koranically sanctioned death being a possible consequence of such apostasy. To Muslims, if Obama was an adult when he decided to betray Islam, he committed a grave sin. But the discussion is mostly towards lieniency, using examples from history of Muslim children kidnapped and raised as animists or Christians in war and later reclaimed NOT being put to death because they were children. The blame is mostly on the father, Barrack Hussein for being a bigamist who impregnated then left his child with no regard for his upbringing or the fate of his soul with Allah.

But for religious people in Muslim countries, the starting point is not warmth and acceptance for the kid who lived in a Muslim household, was listed as Muslim, had a Muslim father. It is whether or not he is a true apostate that deserves to die - which almost all say he doesn't - because he was removed from a Muslim setting at an early age by the irresponsibility of his feckless rolling stone Bio-Daddy and moved to America away from regular contact with Muslims and the Faith he was born into.

Americans counting on biography as foreign policy in favoring Obama as the Redeemer who is embraced by the 3rd World, particualrly Muslims, should at least be realistic about the Muslim response to an Obama running the USA. First and foremost is: " What will he do about the Palestinian's suffering"? then: "What will he do to help improve Muslim lives and change US policies hurtful to Muslims?" Then: "We are all a little queasy about his leaving Islam, but do not generally consider it apostasy but the dereliction of his dead Bio-Dad in his proper rearing."

Posted by Chris Ford | December 31, 2007 3:15 PM

Jack, you ask me to replace the words "Christian," etc., in the above sentences. But Obama was evidently making all those Catholic prayers and attending Catholic ceremonies as part of being in his school in the same way that doing the Muslim stuff was part of being in his school. Now, you're looking at those facts and you're saying, "he was a Muslim," not "he was a Catholic" and not "he had a goofy childhood where he kept on getting thrown in with different religions but didn't really belong to any of them." But based on your facts, you could just as easily conclude he was raised a Catholic as you could conclude that he was raised Muslim. So stop going around claiming that it's a "fact" that he's Muslim.

Posted by Dan | December 31, 2007 3:21 PM

A big todo about nothing...

Posted by Wesley | December 31, 2007 3:22 PM

Chris, you just said that Muslims generally consider Barack to be a Muslim. Please provide the link to this survey.

Posted by dan | December 31, 2007 3:29 PM

Isn't this statement in Dreams from My Father: "In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell my mother that I made faces during Koranic studies."

Second, the information that Obama registered as a Muslim comes from school documents obtained by reporters. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20070124-1317-obama-2008.html

I'm not sure what the mystery here is. He lived in a Muslim country that required religious training in school. Being a relatively liberal state, he could choose "Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic or Protestant." Given these choices, given his mother's skepticism and given the potential opportunties for Muslims, its not surprising he registered as Muslim.

BTW/ I voted for Obama as my senator and might vote for him for President (though I might prefer he lose and run for Illinois governor).

Posted by PD Shaw | December 31, 2007 3:31 PM

Chris Ford,

Wow. Now that is something. Being ignorant is something that most of us are guilty of. For obvious reasons, we ALL aren't knowledgeable about ALL things.

However, acting on your ignorance in order to make a point, is well...ignorant. And just becuase you write with authority doesn't make it more believable, it just makes you sound....more ignorant.

But I did find this statement rather funny...."That debate is quite lively because a good deal of Muslims believe that Islam is a "roach motel" religion".

This was a Hit job times 2. 1 for Obama and 2 for Muslims - you ARE good.

I vote Chris for President.

Keep up the good work "educating" us on Islam and what Muslims think (2 Billion pple)

Posted by Here we go | December 31, 2007 3:41 PM

The other fallacy is that many of Obama's backers happen to be deep believers in diversity and Multi-culti and having an American leader that does not come from their construct or image of "White Christian Oppressor" - will lead to waves of love, acceptance, and adulation for America throughout the 3rd world and with Lefty Euroweenies who believe in the religion of Multi-Culti even more than we do - as Obama and other non-whites become top people in leadership.

Except that didn't happen when other blacks like Condi Rice, Powell, Ralph Bunche and countless black American ambassadors met with 3rd world leaders and masses. US policy, not affirmative action bonus points, mattered more.

Nor are Africans particularly enamored of black Americans. As an officer, I once had to bribe 3 black American enlisteds out of legal trouble arising from public drunkeness, fighting, drug possession, resisting arrest, use of obscene language in a certain African country. Actually, bribe them out of legal trouble in the host nation to smooth the way for them to land in legal trouble with the UCMJ under Status of Forces Agreements. What was surprising was the contempt the Africans had for the 3 - cops and the prosecutor and jailers - that they did not conceal. One cop was pissed they called him "brother" many times as he arrested hi then said he was no better than "US pigs" down on blacks. I told those "gentlemen" in the strongest of words that I am not their brother. I am not the son of slaves. They know nothing of us. They struck two of my people and you assure me they will pay, and I believe you as a white man more than I would those degraded persons..

Other Africans are more polite about it these days because they welcome wealthy black American tourism and do believe that most of the blame is with Western and Arab imperialism for the slave trade. But think that the people they turned over to slavers were generally Africa's detrious. Criminals, malcontents and work shirkers the chief discarded, the losers in war that would normally have been put to death if there was no money to be had for selling them. There is a stigma about slaves as "the rejects" much as Englishmen were snotty for generations about the Aussie sons of debtors, drunks, and convicts deported involuntarily and shipped Down Under.

That doesn't affect Obama since he has no slave background, but Obama is a little exotic from his varous identities - he has no central ID that people can visualize. That can lead to him being all things to all people in the 3rd World if he became President, but more likely just be dismissed as nothing to all people there as an exotic with no dominant identity and background. But in the future we will see no unique "special bond" with black American leaders from Africans, just as Dem Hispanics are not tripping over themselves to embrace identity politics and embrace 3/4ths Latino Richardson.

Posted by Chris Ford | December 31, 2007 3:53 PM

Dan,

I am trying to deal with you in good faith. But you are again and again mis-stating what I write. I never said Obama is currently a muslim. All I said was that he was raised as a muslim by his step-father in Indonesia when he was a child. In his adult life, he chose christianity. So, stop mis-stating what I have been saying. It is intellectually dishonest.

All of the newpaper articles (LA Times, Associated Press) and his own book (as pointed out by PD Shaw) clearly show that he registered as a Muslim in school, he attended Koranic Studies in school, and went to Mosque not Church when he was a little boy. If you have any evidence to dispute any of this, feel free to share it with us. The only "evidence" you purport to have is that when he attended Catholic school he participated in school prayers. I have already pointed out to you that attending a Catholic school or syaing prayers in a Catholic school with all other pupils does not constitute being a Catholic. His own teacher and a former vice-principal in the LA Times article is quoted as saying that he registered as a muslim. The AP article from Nedra Pickler says that there is documentary evidence that he registered as a muslim, a fact not contradicted by the Obama campaign. Obama's own sister says that the family attended a mosque even if occasionally.

Posted by Jack | December 31, 2007 4:00 PM

Sorry, I did mis-state what you were arguing. You said, "the fact that Obama was raised as a Muslim when he was a child?" Not, "the fact that Obama is a Muslim."

Posted by dan | December 31, 2007 4:08 PM

Daniel Pipes is a neocon Jew. FYI.

Posted by not daniel pipes | December 31, 2007 4:14 PM

Always beware of someone that claims to be a Muslim immigrant, writes as a cofortable colloquial American-born does, and claims to have been a Marine. Who claims to be the expert tolerating the "ignorant" other posters. All too often, poseurs pop up claiming to be the final word based on dubious credentials.

I am free to opine, and do so from having read letters and opinions about Obama's Muslim identity, his possible apostasy, and the importance of the Muslim writers hold of US policy over who happens to be leading us - in The Dawn (Pakistan), the Beruit Star, and a religious forum run by Muslims explaining aspects of the faith to speakers of 8 European languages.

I also spent time (22 months total) in Africa and 3 ME Muslim nations including Turkey and KSA, as part of military and private sector work. So my ignorance included being a boarder in a Muslim household in Turkey for 5 months and plenty of discussions with them and other Turks on policies and culture and faith...

Pipes - For them, that he was born to a line of Muslim males makes him born a Muslim. Further, all children born with an Arabic name based on the H-S-N trilateral root (Hussein, Hassan, and others) can be assumed to be Muslim, so they will understand Obama's full name, Barack Hussein Obama, to proclaim him a born Muslim.

Pipes, who has spent more time and effort in Islamic countries in his life than even "Muslim Marine" if we stretch and assume the poster isn't a Fakir - makes clear the Muslim assumption that all children of Muslim men are raised as Muslims. Just as Islam allows Muslim men to marry infidel women to increase Islam's numbers by belief that all offspring will be Muslim, and strictly forbids, on pain of death, any Muslim woman a marriage or sexual relationship with an infidel on grounds she will be made to worship her mate's false faith, and the fertility of her womb lost to enemies of Islam...

Obama's birthname says he was born Muslim - to other Muslims - just as assuredly as naming a kid Ariel Sharon Goldblatt testifies to who the parents admire and wish to raise their child to be like and what faith he was born with - to other jews. Or, Europes list of Catholic& Protestant-rooted names gave a clue of religious identity to others (Patrick, Maria/Mary - 99% Catholic in Europe, Catholic or Pentacostal in Latin America), or the fact someone named Brigham Young Johnson was born in the Mormon Faith.

Posted by Chris Ford | December 31, 2007 4:45 PM

God, has everyone gone crazy?

Mr. "not daniel pipes," please don't be insinuiating anything anti-semitic. This Daniel Pipes guy is trash, but don't be nasty.

Re: Chris's statement: "Always beware of someone that claims to be a Muslim immigrant, writes as a cofortable colloquial American-born does, and claims to have been a Marine." Chris (a.k.a. Daniel Pipes?), shut up you sick bigoted freak.

Why would normal people feel compelled to write stuff like what Chris and other have been saying? And at such length? These people have to be paid by someone to write this trash is all I can figure.

It seriously scares the hell out of me that politics would have sunk so low if these guys really are just hacks who get paid to spit out B.S.

Posted by dan | December 31, 2007 4:58 PM

Jack,

You said: "I have already pointed out to you that attending a Catholic school or syaing prayers in a Catholic school with all other pupils does not constitute being a Catholic."

Yes. And similarly, being registered as a Muslim for four years at a Catholic school and occationally going to Koranic studies or the mosque during that period doesn't amount to being "raised a muslim," especially if the kid is doing all this Catholic stuff at the same time and his mom (who he was much closer to) is an atheist who's trying to expose him to a bunch of different religions.

Posted by dan | December 31, 2007 5:06 PM

I find this argument hilarious that Daniel Pipes Chris Ford and other conservatives are making that we should hesitate to elect Obama because we are so concerned about the feelings of muslim terrorists who might be offended by his apostasy because of some linkage to Obama's muslim-turned-atheist-american-woman-procreating-child-abandoning father.

These guys aren't worried about hurting muslim feelings about guantanamo.

These guys aren't worried about hurting muslim feelings about Abu Ghraib.

These guys aren't worried about hurting muslim feelings about trying to out jack bauer jack bauer.

These guys aren't worried about hurting muslim feelings when bush uses messianic Christian language - crusades, "evil doers," etc.

These guys aren't worried about hurting muslim feelings when we invade and occupy Iraq on false pretenses.

These guys aren't worried about hurting muslim feelings when we prop up dictators that fan the flames of islamic terrorism through their repression..

But, all of a sudden, these right wingers are so "earnestly" concerned that electing barack Obama will hurt a terrorists feelings! That this, of all things, will be an impediment to our foreign policy, not all that other stuff, of course!

Well, I think there is only one logical, patriotic conclusion to this argument: Elect Barack Obama President or the terrroists win!

Posted by RKA | December 31, 2007 5:09 PM

It's an issue he will have to confront and as he does it might be to the benefit of the country; i don't think people who would find this credible or a smear would likely vote for him anyway. the question is whether a _plurality_ of americans would (a) believe that he is some kind of manchurian candidate (doubtful); (b) believe that he actually is a muslim (maybe?); (c) believe that the fact that he could be mistaken for a muslim by people who had never heard him speak of his christian faith and that mistake would somehow be a liability (doubtful). Finally, there is nothing _wrong_ with being a muslim, we are not talking about embezzlement or perjury...I would suggest that this is actually a strength, not a weakness. I now have a copy of the email and tend to send it to all my friends.

Posted by JC | December 31, 2007 5:21 PM

Apparently the God-besotten Republicans are no longer content to rekindle the religious wars of the Seventeenth Century (American style)among themselves, but now insist on dragging the rest of us down into their pit with them. They have enlisted Democrats and concern trolls to help them in this endeavor.

I say resist them, however tempted we might feel to join the fray. Ignore them. Anyone they might persuade is lost anyway. We all have much better things to do. Like jerk off.

(Come to think of it, that's pretty much what most blog commentary is, and I don't except my own.)

Posted by Henderstock | December 31, 2007 6:05 PM

hey, why must it be right wing Republicans getting their licks here on Obama? They don't have to worry about him for another 11 months.

More likely it is the partisans of perpetuating the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton dynasties for another 8 years...or until Jeb is ready to make his run.

Posted by Wesley | December 31, 2007 7:04 PM

Jack,you wrote:
"I don't think it is a false notion that Obama when he was a child was raised as a muslim. By all accounts, he did go to Mosque regularly, he did attend classes on Koran."
Can you source those accounts?
I'm assuming you're one of Hillary/Edwards's henchmen bent on perpetuating a rumor that's been debunked a long time ago.You're probably one of those fake Christians that goes around smearing people you can't find any valid arguments to defeat.You'd do better to go read your bible.

Posted by joseph pierre | January 1, 2008 10:44 PM

What is the point in all of this? Who cares what color you are or religion you believe in if you can get the job done? Being a christian or muslim or buddhist should not matter as long as the person can do the job and bring the U.S. a change that we desperately need. I believe in Obama for what he can do for us, not because he's christian or muslim or whatever the press wants to say he is now. Being a christian myself, I find it frustrating that we act like children fighting over whos religion is better. Your beliefs are your own, its how you treat yourself and others and how you believe with all your heart regarding your faith that matters.

Regardless of Obama's beliefs, I believe that he is the chance we need for a change. He brings together people of different religions, races, and viewpoints because he believes that he can change the U.S. for the better. I want someone who can change our country for the better, not just someone who shares my religious beliefs.

A true christian does not judge, hate, discriminate. God made us all for a reason, whatever your beliefs are, He has a purpose for you. Let Him judge. Let us find peace.

Posted by Kay F | January 2, 2008 9:16 AM

I think that Obama has the right to chose whatever religion that he wants. The fact that at some point in his life he was a muslim or practiced the muslim faith should be a great concern. Who is the US at war with? Who is Obama kin to that makes him a threat? I read all of the comments posted. You people need to see the big picture and not be so narrow minded. Our national security should be a priority when you select a candidate.

Posted by Kat E | February 24, 2008 11:05 AM