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A Penn Memo On Florida

30 Jan 2008 06:20 am

The big point in this is fundamentally correct: 1.5 million Florida Democrats cast ballots yesterday. Delegates -- no, but either they mean something or nothing.. and if they mean something, it means that, at the very least, there is a reason to think that Feb. 5 will be.. as competitive as we think it will be.

To: Interested Parties

From: Mark Penn, Chief Strategist

Date: Tuesday, January 29, 2008

Re: A Significant Victory in Florida

Hillary Clinton won a significant victory today in the Florida primary with biggest turnout in Florida Democratic primary history. She will end up with more votes than John McCain, the winner of the Republican primary. And Floridians cast more votes than were cast in Iowa, Nevada, South Carolina, and New Hampshire combined.

A large, broad, and diverse group of voters came out and voted for Hillary in Florida. She won women, men, and just about every age category. She won nearly 6 in 10 Latinos and nearly 3 in 10 African American voters.

The vote turned out to be far more than symbolic. Well over 1.5 million Democrats cast their ballots, more than twice the number of voters who came out to vote in the 2004 primary.

Most of the voters in Florida fully expect that their votes will not be wasted again -- they too have a voice at the convention, and Hillary has asked her delegates to support their being seated.

This result comes after Senator Obama ran TV commercials that reached Florida homes and after the enormous publicity he received for South Carolina and for the Ted Kennedy endorsement. The exit polls show widespread recognition of the endorsement -- but even so among those who decided on Election Day, a plurality of those chose Hillary.

But any momentum seemed to run out today -- among those who decided on Election Day, a plurality of those chose Hillary.

Comments (20)

The key is that the election itself is not indicative of what the results would have been in a true contest with all candidates on the ground campaigning. An election without a campaign is kind of like a banana republic. Put Obama on the ground and things change. Put Obama's field organization in the state and the turnout changes.

This seems to be the first primary state where Republican turnout exceeded Democratic turnout, even though Democrats hold a small edge in registration in the state. Why? Clearly, because this was not a true contest, and many who would have voted on the Democratic side did not show up. This is especially true since the Obama campaign has been legendary at turning out young people and first time voters.

It's simply misleading to in any way suggest that an election without the candidates actively campaigning means much of anything, much less is indicative of what votes will be where such campaigns exist.

So sure it was a vote, and many people turned out. No doubt many Democrats turned out to vote on the important property tax initiative on the ballot. But had this been a true contest, there would have been more far more people voting and the results would likely have been far different. We know, for instance, that Obama won among those who decided in the last month, after the election season got started.

Um, no.

The problem with this analysis is that it is not just an issue of whether or not the delegates count. It is also an issue of the fact that the candidates did not campaign in Florida. So all Florida really tells you about is what would happen in a state like Florida if no one was allowed to campaign. Getting from that to any inferences about what will happen in the various Super Tuesday states with all sorts of campaigning going on is a real stretch.

That said, I agree Super Tuesday is likely to end up "competitive". But I don't think Florida in particular tells you much about that.

Just to be clear, I was responding to Marc, not cm.

I agree with the posts above, and would like to add that there were actually some very positive signs regarding Obama's momentum going into Feb 5th. Most notably, in the majority of voters who decided at some point over the past month, Obama won a larger share of the vote: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/29/florida-results-show-late_n_83957.html

Would Hillary still have won if this was a real primary where all the candidate campaigned, resulting in a turnout more in sync with the overwhelming numbers we have seen this year (as noted by cm above)? Perhaps. But painting it as a landslide victory for Hillary, or a referendum in the same way South Carolina appears to have been; smacks of desperation.

WELL SAID MARK! THANK YOU!ITS FUNNY TO SEE OBAMA following Teddy around like hired help, Kennedys are used to servants. Obama continues to cry and whine and loose ALL non-black voters in record numbers! Each primary his non-black support is dwindling. And of course his black support is rising, but that what we expected with Michelle obama stumping with her continued racial comments and attacks on non-black voters, which the media isn’t telling. Obama has proven that he has divided the voters among race and now with OLD crazy man Ted hes theory of change doesnt appear to be true since he is running behind the old establishment (Ted Kennedy) like a butler, before that Oprah lead him by the nose, He is just a political BOBBLE HEAD and should be ignored…

Oh I forgot to mention, Marc, did you hear Obama totally snubbed Hillary at the SOTU? I think you should definitely blog about that, like four or five posts at least. I'm shocked this Very Important Issue hasn't gotten more play by the MSM.

Barack Obama has surfaced in the federal corrupton case against his longtime campaign fund-raiser, Tony Rezko Obama's relationship with Rezko came under greater scrutiny this week after prosecutors disclosed Rezko received $3.5 million from an Iraqi billionaire while claiming to be broke. He was jailed on Monday and a federal judge on Tuesday refused to reinstate his bond. Contributions to his campaign came from schemes Rezko is accused of orchestrating. The allegations against Rezko that involve Obama are contained in 78-page document filed last month in which prosecutors outline their corruption and fraud case against Rezko. Trial Feb. 25. Obama’s name to come up in court is a political headache he doesn’t need. Obama is the “political candidate” referred to in a section of the document that accuses Rezko of orchestrating a scheme in which a firm hired to handle state teacher pension investments first had to pay $250,000 in “sham” finder’s fees. From that money, $10,000 was donated to Obama’s successful run for the Senate in the name of a Rezko business associate, according to the court filing and the source. Rezko, part of Obama’s senatorial finance committee, also is accused of directing “at least one other individual” to donate money to Obama and then reimbursing that individual — in possible violation of federal election law. Obama — got the contributions in 2004 — has moved to distance himself from Rezko since his longtime friend and supporter was indicted in October 2006. After news that Obama had engaged in a real estate transaction with Rezko’s wife at a time Tony Rezko was known to be under investigation, the senator called the episode a mistake.” Obama donated more than $44,000 in Rezko-linked contributions to charity last year, including the $10,000 donation mentioned in the court filing. That money was donated to Obama by Joseph Aramanda, a Glenview businessman and Rezko associate who, sources have said, is the “Individual D” prosecutors say received the $250,000 in finder’s fees demanded by Rezko. Individual D did nothing. In 13 years in politics, Obama has gotten at least $168,000 in campaign donations from Rezko, his family and business associates. The Sun-Times reported

1.5 million people leaving thier houses and going to vote is not just a poll and not just a beauty show.
Most of us live in states where there is little campaigning and we follow it. The iowa/nh/nevada/sc campaigns are obviously parts of a national campaign: we see it and they see it everyday in every paper and on every channel.
Because obama supporters and Hillary supporters didn't have phone banks mobilized it doesn't matter what 1.5 million americans indicate with thier votes?
Let me also say that if hundreds of thousands of earlier votes leaned heavily Hillary's way AND day of votes yesterday came out a near even match, it is silly to think that it wasn't a blow out for hillary: her voters came out early AND late and Obama's only came out late.
It matters too because it profoundly interupted Obama's kansas stuff with the governor there and his snub plus the lose in Florida make for a horrible day in the press cycle biz for him.
His followers grow more delusional everyday.

From what I understand...nobody REALLY campaigned.
The news of this race are bombarded at all hours. It has been all over the news, so people are well aware of who the candidates are and they have heard Senator Obama speak and are also well aware of who he is and how well he can talk the talk.
Floridians are not idiots although the people that are not on the winning end are suggesting this because "they don't know me/him". OK if you want to diminish (it was 1.8 million people that voted, by the way) this turnout and this win...fine. Then let's keep a perspective on South Carolina as well because it was being touted as a blow out and that Clinton was finished. Fair is fair, back to square one.

Look, folks, we all understand that Clinton wants us to believe (at least for the moment) that it doesn't matter whether or not candidates actually campaign. But the bottomline is that we will never really know what would have happened in Florida if there had been campaigning. So all that is happening is that people who like Clinton are imagining Clinton would have still won big, and people who like other candidates are imagining their candidates would have done much better. And no one can prove anyone else wrong, because the hypothetical never happened.

Holy cow, your name is "Obama Rezko"?! That is a most unfortunate coincidence!

While we're on the subject, should we just go ahead now and make a list of all the former Clinton BUSINESS ASSOCIATES who either are or should be in jail? We could discuss the indictments in detail. Nevermind a list of her past fundraisers who are or should be in jail - that list would be too long to print. While we're at it, we could detail Hillary's and Bill's personal involvement in the alleged and actual illegal activities...

No? No interest in pursuing that line of comparison? Oh, then we'll just drop the subject. Thanks.

As a registered Florida Democrat, I just want to note a couple of points to the fact that twice as many Democrats showed up yesterday than in 2004. In 2004, the Primary was in March and Kerry already had won the nomination. So many Democrats did not go to the polls since the nominee was already decided and in my County was the only issue on the ballot. And, my motivation to vote yesterday was not the Democratic race (being fully aware no delegates would be awarded) but the Statewide Property Tax Amendment. If the Amendment had not been on the ballot, I don't know if I would've voted or not. And, since the primary was done with the statement that no delegates would be awarded, (which I think it was wrong on the DNC's part to begin with) but think that since they made the rules (and the primary was voted with those rules in place) they should stick by it and not seat Florida delegates in August. It is just more zaniness and vote manipulation to now change the rules yet again. And, I'm just sick and tired of "it's this way" "no, it's that way"... I'd like to vote once and either it counted (or not counted - we're used to this in Florida) but not recounted and recounted and recounted...

"Each primary his non-black support is dwindling. And of course his black support is rising, but that what we expected with Michelle obama stumping with her continued racial comments and attacks on non-black voters, which the media isn’t telling. Obama has proven that he has divided the voters among race and now with OLD crazy man Ted"

This is the thing about Hillary supporters; they're not liberals, they're neocons! Hey Mark, Jerry Falwell called to tap you as his heir-apparent.

"Each primary his non-black support is dwindling. And of course his black support is rising, but that what we expected with Michelle obama stumping with her continued racial comments and attacks on non-black voters, which the media isn’t telling. Obama has proven that he has divided the voters among race and now with OLD crazy man Ted"

This is the thing about Hillary supporters; they're not liberals, they're neocons! Hey Mark, Jerry Falwell called to tap you as his heir-apparent.

Let's see now....who is Marc Penn? Is he that
toad-like operative who pushed the Obama-cocaine
theme on MSNBC not long ago? Hillary should
limit his on-air time as her wagon train forges
on. Bottom-feeders are rarely attractive fauna.
Unlike children, he should only be heard and not
seen.

Florida voters, make sure your votes count. Hillary is with you all the way and will fight for your votes and delegates to be seated at the DNC Convention in August but she needs your help. Lobby the Florida and National DNC and tell them you want your votes to count and Florida's delegates to be seated. If they won't budge you ask for a new caucus or primary date! the Florida DNC can set a new polling date for after Feb 5th by DNC rules and your votes and delegates will then have to be counted, that will do it! Contact the DNC today, don't wait! Hillary all the way!

This is akin to the Dallas Cowboys saying with a straight face that pre-season games should count after they 3-1.

It is pretty self-serving to negate the actual voters as insignificant---doesn't that epitomize the Obama message of unity--I agree the press has not given Michelle Obama her just due for racist remarks, etc.--Florida is extremely important because it shows that people are voting on the issues --not the emotionalism that this fraud activist evokes---get a grip Obama this Country has no time for on the job training--as far as being named the black candidate--like bill maher said--does anybody think nobody had noticed. The media that Obama is drawing all the attention and obvious bias from is the absolute factor of the status quo--perhaps he should start there in trying to change America and tell them to stop plastering his ignorance in front of us all... There is a bigger picture here and it is not white or black, or even half black--it is about a qualified woman and the WASP--which they rather support a mulatto, inexperienced man as there next choice... Get used to it--the accomplishments of Hillary are profound and yet everyone of them past and present these men of the media minimize. But more astounding to me than all of this is the utter disrespect toward a former first lady, Stateswoman and a past President of the United States.

It is pretty self-serving to negate the actual voters as insignificant---doesn't that epitomize the Obama message of unity--I agree the press has not given Michelle Obama her just due for racist remarks, etc.--Florida is extremely important because it shows that people are voting on the issues --not the emotionalism that this fraud activist evokes---get a grip Obama this Country has no time for on the job training--as far as being named the black candidate--like bill maher said--does anybody think nobody had noticed. The media that Obama is drawing all the attention and obvious bias from is the absolute factor of the status quo--perhaps he should start there in trying to change America and tell them to stop plastering his ignorance in front of us all... There is a bigger picture here and it is not white or black, or even half black--it is about a qualified woman and the WASP--which they rather support a mulatto, inexperienced man as there next choice... Get used to it--the accomplishments of Hillary are profound and yet everyone of them past and present these men of the media minimize. But more astounding to me than all of this is the utter disrespect toward a former first lady, Stateswoman and a past President of the United States.

Thank you josephine....I couldn't have said it better. The utter disrespect Obama and his supporters are showing the Clintons is reprehensible. I can't believe it. I realize it's not smart to support the republicans if Obama is nominated....but I just don't think I can get on the bandwagon with this guy. He scares me. All of his talk about unity and calling Hillary divisive just because she works with the republicans to get things done? That doesn't even make sense to me. What message is it he is supposed to be sending again? I'm confused. He seems extremely hypocritical and I'm afraid for our country should he get the nomination.