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Michigan And Clinton

16 Jan 2008 12:02 pm

To me, it is not all that significant that 44% of Michigan Democrats did not vote for Hillary Clinton. For one thing, Fox News polled Democrats and found that, had all the names been on the ballot, she would still have won by a double-digit margin. For another, there were plenty of paid efforts to gin up the uncommitted vote. And nowhere in the country does Clinton currently command a majority. So Michigan's results are unremarkable. There is some good news for Obama: 73% of the uncommitted Dems say they'd have preferred him.

The one trouble spot for Clinton is obvious: 70% of black voters sampled chose "uncommitted." The sample size was small -- I'm guessing about 300 or so of the exit poll sample were black -- but it's a sign that Obama has consolidated the black vote in Michigan and probably elsewhere.

Do not be surprised to see the Clinton campaign begin to rachet down expectations in South Carolina on the theory that if people expect Obama to win here, his win won't be seen as all that and a bag of chips.

Comments (18)

To me, it is not all that significant that 44% of Michigan Democrats did not vote for Hillary Clinton. For one thing, Fox News polled Democrats and found that, had all the names been on the ballot, she would still have won by a double-digit margin.

Which is more or less irrelevant, since none of the other candidates actually campaigned in Michigan, allowing Clinton to coast on name recognition.

The sample size was small -- I'm guessing about 300 or so of the exit poll sample were black -- but it's a sign that Obama has consolidated the black vote in Michigan and probably elsewhere.

Or, more accurately, it's a sign that Clinton has managed to alienate a large portion of the black vote.

Do not be surprised to see the Clinton campaign begin to rachet down expectations in South Carolina on the theory that if people expect Obama to win here, his win won't be seen as all that and a bag of chips.

Begin? They've been doing that for at least a week now.

Look folks...we had enough of Bill and Hillary already, 8 years. Do you want 12 more years? Also, why is Bill campaigning as if he is running again and not his wife? Can't Hillary do her own bidding for the presidency of United States? NO MORE HILLARY OR CLINTON FOR 2008. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

Look folks...we had enough of Bill and Hillary already, 8 years. Do you want 12 more years? Also, why is Bill campaigning as if he is running again and not his wife? Can't Hillary do her own bidding for the presidency of United States? NO MORE HILLARY OR CLINTON FOR 2008. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

To me, it is not all that significant that 44% of Michigan Democrats did not vote for Hillary Clinton. For one thing, Fox News polled Democrats and found that, had all the names been on the ballot, she would still have won by a double-digit margin.

This is silly. Michigan Dems knew she was the only one on the ballot, and that the vote wouldn't matter anyway. Therefore, most Obama supporters (and Edwards supporters, if you like) probably didn't feel much urgency to turn out and vote.

The "Uncommitted" strategy is a pretty complicated sales pitch to make to voters who've already been told that the vote will be meaningless no matter what the outcome.

Therefore, turnout was incredibly low. The fact that so many people (and certainly so many nonwhite voters) went to the polls on a snowy day for no reason other than to publicly rebuke Clinton seems pretty significant to me. If Obama gets 73% of the African American vote in spite of the fact that voters knew he wasn't even on the ballot, it stands to reason that his margin among that demographic will be even higher in contests where voters can, you know, actually vote for him.

I think any attempt to look too deeply into these results is a mistake.
There's simply no way of telling what would have happened if they'd campaigned there or Obama and Edwards were on the ballot.

I agree with Joe. Do you know where FOX polled? Because if they polled at the ballot box then they missed all the supporters who stayed home (Hill's, Obama's and Edwards'). So any polling is not going to represent anything really--the "300" polled who voted against Clinton might have been out because Conyers told them to. Drawing any conclusions from this vote is a waste of time, for both sides. Had uncommitted beaten Clinton or had it not achieved 15% (enough to free delegates) it would have been a story, this, however is not a story (unless we want to pretend that it is).

The black vote in MI was really troublesome for Hillary. When voters would rather have a blank face than you, that's bad.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Chris Bowers pointed out that the exit poll results (45-35-12) are roughly in line with most national polls, which makes sense because Michigan voters haven't been exposed to any particular media messages.

At the moment Obama is about 7-10 points behind in the national polls. That means he needs an electorate that's at least 5-7% percent more African-American than the nation as a whole (assuming almost all African-Americans will vote in the Democratic primary). The only states where that's true are SC, NC, GA, AL, VA, MS. In essence, Obama needs to change the national dynamics, or hope that his advertising and free media exposure are significantly better than Clinton, or hope that there are regional disparities in the appeal of Clinton and Obama (e.g. Clinton may have lower favorables in the Midwest and Mountain West).

"she would still have won by a double-digit margin"

Hellooooo?

Are you kidding me?

Did they poll all the people who just sat home instead of going out to cast their meaningless vote??? They received no delegates. The only people who voted are die-hards.

I can't even believe anyone would release any exit poll numbers.
They can't poll the people who would have voted if their candidate had been on the ballot, but stayed home since they weren't.

No matter how "polls" try to swing it, Hillary's overall stratey is smart.

She stuck it out with Michigan by staying on the ballot. I believe that loyalty will be rewarded and will benefit her in the end.

To try to paint a negative picture of Michigan's outcome is just another back-handed slap to women, in my opinion.

All of the Democratic candidates agreed not to participate in MI. Clinton kept her name on the ballot, the others kept their agreement. She's already breaking agreements she willing made. Way to restore credibility, NOT!

"To try to paint a negative picture of Michigan's outcome is just another back-handed slap to women, in my opinion."

Now THAT'S a stretch any way you slice it . . . maybe the fact that she was the ONLY major candidate that didn't remove her name from the ballot has something to do with it.

Hmmmm indeed.

"To try to paint a negative picture of Michigan's outcome is just another back-handed slap to women, in my opinion."

Whoa, this has really got out of hand! Do you have any specific logical reasons for believing this, Hmmm, or are you just going with the "anyone who doesn't think my candidate is doing well wants women to fail" line of "reasoning"?

I believe that was a cheap move on Hillary's part to not drop out with grace like the other two front-runners. The only thing she truly proves is that she's not honorable OR confident enough to abide by PARTY RULES.

If you are a Hillary fan, Michigan has got to trouble you. The Fox Poll reflects only those who showed up, thus the sample is heavily skewed to Hilary.

Obama and Biden and Edwards dropped out of Michigan when michigan tried to hpscotch to the front of the primary schedule. They were afraid of the wrath of traditionally first Iowa and NH. They went along with a deal to disenfranchise those voters when we as a party have been scraming about disenfranchised voters in ohio and florida in the last two presidential cycles.
It was a dumb agreement by those who agreed and taking away delegates and taking name off was disproportionate.
Once more the cynical hillary and bill haters see the worst in the clinton actions but don't see the cynical way edwards and Obama (who true-ly needed and banked on Iowa and NH for cred, momentum and fundraising) went along on the sham to punish any state who didn't respect iowa and NH 'traditional' first in the nation idiocy.
Hillary never could rely on Iowa (not her neighboring state, hadn't camped out there 4 years and bet the farm on it, and the state has never been part of 'the Clinton machine') and didn't need to kowtow quite so cravenly as her buddies in the party.
Our dems know how bad it is in Michael Moore's shell-shocked state and they still sided with iowa. I'd never vote red but what a bone-headed spineless move on our part as a party.

The one trouble spot for Clinton is obvious: 70% of black voters sampled chose "uncommitted."

For all the talk of the "dangers" of white racism, the most obvious fact of elective politics in the Democratic Party is that in elections, blacks will vote "racial pride, solidarity, and skin color" over a candidate's record. A white will lose the black city vote for an office to a newcomer black preacher even if the white has a 100% NAACP rating.

Chris Ford: your construction is really offensive: you posit that white voters are sophisticated enough to vote for a black candidate even against a white candidate (we know that to be true) but that black voters lack the same sophistication to vote for a candidate they believe in or is worthy of their vote over someone with whom they share only color?
That is the ugliest and most unfounded thing I've read in weeks.
Oh ye of little faith.
Even if ultimately Black Americans uniformly vote for obama in some of these primaries it is more than likely they are voting thier hearts, their pocketbooks, their concerns and not just about color.
I support Hillary but I still think other people are choosing their candidates with the same care that I am.
If three hundred people voted uncommitted in Michigan and they are 73% of the Black americans who voted there, that still means 27 % didn't do what you say Black voters will do. And even if 100% of African Americans choose to support obama (I doubt he will get Alan Keyes vote though) it still doesn't prove your construction.
people think about who they vote for. probably even republicans think: that one I do have to take on faith.


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