Note: polls close in Florida at 7...and 8. This event begins at 7.
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» Hillary Clinton’s Florida Campaign from The American Mind Comments (72)
This is pretty desperate. 
Well, come on. It says right in the fine print that "Florida for Hillary is not affiliated with Hillary Clinton for President".
I'm not sure what Obama supporters are so up in arms about. Florida is a key state and its voters' preference should be reflected at the Democratic Convention, and Hillary Clinton is making sure that happens. What's more, Obama is hoping the national press ignores Florida because he was destined to lose there. But all I hear from Obama supporters is sour grapes.
"Florida for Hillary is not affiliated with Hillary Clinton for President" but they are hosting an event with Hillary Clinton?!?!?!? That sounds like affiliation to me! Its worth remembering that the incompetence of some Florida dems is the reason why Florida was stolen from Gore in 2000. These people congenitally seem not to be able to follow any rules of voting. It is a bannana republic down there.
Joe, with no campaigning in the state, this becomes a measure of name ID and little more. It structurally favors establishment candidates over challengers. The fact that Hillary broke rules to campaign there and gave winks and nods to the state gives her more of an unfair advantage. HIllary had a head start in a race in whcih Obama's legs were tied together. The idea that this could be treated as a measure of anything in absurd.
RKA, First, nice little dig at Florida - "banana republic" - etc. I hope you weren't referring to the Hispanic population there when you made that remark. Second, I think you miss the point. Florida is not well-suited to Obama. Significant Hispanic population that he has showed no ability to reach. So he was always going to lose in Florida. His decision not to campaign was made easy, but I'm sort of surprised that he doesn't want to honor the delegates that Florida should get. Face it, Florida is the beginning of the end for the Obama campaign, which can't run a national campaign. It was nice while it lasted. Joe
Joe Strummer: Obama isn't going to win or lose Florida, because there is no meaningful contest there. Also, dead Englishmen can't vote.
"Not affiliated"? I guess (as Bill would say) that depends on what the meaning of "affiliated" is.
Jeez. Y'know, we've been shown over the last presidencies that ow you campaign is a omen of how you'll govern. Clinton lied during his campaign about infidelities, Bush about, well everything and then some. Do we really need to go through this again? The sneaky, sketchiness of the Clinton campaign is a promise, people. She ain't gonna suddenly be a different person in office.
Nope, Joe. The folks who screwed up Florida 2000 were not voters of any ethnicity, it was the leaders in the Florda dem party who allowed that stupid butterfly ballot to cost Gore the election and now have chosen a primary date that stripped florida of its delegates. The bottom line is that the democratic voters of Florida are not being well-served by their incompetant, pro-HIllary leadership.
Lesley - excellent point. We're seeing the Hillary Clinton we'd have in office. The other side of that is we won't see her in office. She would energize the Republicans like no other Democrat could, and lose among independents. So thinking about the kind of president she would be is purely an academic exercise.
Marc According to the Miami Herald the polls open from 7am to 7pm. What is your source of the 8pm closing time?
On MSNBC they said that they're already reports of voting problems in Broward County. God, does nothing change there? Another reason to ignore the results on the dem side. Maybe Pat Buchanan is going to win the dem primary? Who knows?
The Western part of the state is in the CST timezone, thus the 8PM (EST) time.
It would be hilarious if Obama "won" Florida...
Talk about desperate! All candidates signed a pledge not to campaign in Florida and now Hillary is claiming victory. It is sad to see how tied to old-style politics of division and distortion Bill and Hillary really are. Ted Kennedy's endorsement of Obama and his bestowing the Kennedy legacy on him will obliterate her one source of support over Obama -- the Hispanic vote. Hillary's desperation is obvious and it is refreshing to see a man such as Obama with the charisma and passion to restore the feelings we had in the early 1960's with JFK of hope for the future. Hillary is yesterday's news and has far too much TOXIC baggage to be able to win in November. It's Obama all the way. http://candidblogger.blogspot.com
Isn't it terrible luck to declare victory, much less tremendous victory? Someone needs to go outside, spin three times and spit.
She's shameless. As usual, the Clintons cannot abide by the rules, where the Dem candidates all agreed not to campaign in Florida. Oh, right -- of course. This is not campaigning. My bad.
If Hillary wins the nomination, will we look back and say the Michigan-Florida DNC meltdown sunk Obama? These are two states where black voters make up as much as 30 percent of the Democratic electorate, and where Hillary is peaking around 55 with everyone else's hands tied. Obama clearly would have narrowly lost or narrowly won Michigan; he might have ridden a post-SC surge to win Florida. It certainly would have been a friendlier battlefield than CA. If he's closing to 10 points there, he surely could have won Florida in a pitched campaign.
Just thinking about how Hillary broke her pledge to the legitimate early states to 'not campaign in Florida' and she obviously broke that pledge with this Florida pre-election flyer/announcement.......can we consider Hillary Clinton may also be capable of breaking her pledge to get us out of Iraq, should she become president? That is the question in my mind.
Hillary Clinton was crushed in Michigan. She barely won to the Uncommitted category, which is to say historians are already having a field day with the Michigan results as it was truly extraordinary that people would trudge out to vote in a primary for "uncommitted." The reason you heard nothing from Team Clinton about Michigan is that it was a shocker. Meanwhile, as for Florida, what does her campaign say if something similar unfolds? It's a shame that the Clinton campaign is trying to spin Florida right now to the low information voter. Memo to Hillary supporters: if you don't understand the history here of Florida and think NRC is doing something honorable here, then, you are in the low information voter category. Finally, if you think Hillary will get our troops out of Iraq, I have a tranche of Sub-Prime mortgages to sell you.
Marc...do you know what media plan to do with this? They could be forgiven for ignoring it altogether...why collude in the silliness?
Disenfranchised voters will make anyone who opposes them look horrible at the convention.
If there is a god, then Obama will sneak out a victory tonite, perhaps as a function of all those retirees swooning over a replay of Camelot. Wouldnt that make for fun TV, to watch Hillary's "victory" speech!
How to "FAKE-UP" a victory for headlines. Once again, the Clintons come off as looking phony.
This looks a whole lot like 'campaigning' to me, and thus a violation of the pledge. The posting of flyers would constitute a campaign action, especially when they promise the actual candidate. I'm sure that we will hear tomorrow that HRC leads the delegate count if you include FL... Spin, Spin, Spin...
Really, Joe? Obama can't reach Hispanics in FL? I guess I, as a Latino Obama supporter from FL, don't exist. Neither, I guess, do EVERY SINGLE ONE of my Colombian family in FL, or my Colombian, Argentinian, or Cuban friends, who also support Obama. But I guess you would know, right?
BTW, no body expects that FL and MI will ultimately be disenfranchised. In fact, it is tacitly accepted that the delegates will be seated by whoever the nominee is. What was PROMISED by all the candidates was that there would be no campaigning there, and that these delegations were not official. HRC is making hay because she needs to blunt the crushing SC defeat, because she has a structural advantage she can play, and because she needs to be seen enfranchising Hispanics after she tried to disenfranchise them in NV. Good strategy on her part for anyone who isn't well informed, but a load of horse crap if you see what's really going on.
With a tip of the hat to the original Joe Strummer, who famously asked, "should I stay or should I go?" I say to you, Joe: GO! And take Hillary with you already. Hillary's word is as worthless as feared. So thank goodness we have new evidence of that, with her breaking her word about the states that moved up too early.
The notion that Obama can't win hispanics is false. As a Cuban American, I'm voting for Obama in NC's primary and several family members from Miami (many of them republicans),
Just look to the above comment for an accurate account of what this means. FL ultimately isn't a big deal - not when compared to Super Tuesday. As many others have pointed out, it is indicative of the overall crass and desperate nature that the Clinton campaign has been forced to adopt in order to survive. Count me in the camp that thinks this sort of campaigning is regressive and destructive to the Party.
What an absolute betrayal of the early state voters. She made a promise to the people of Iowa, NH, NV, and SC for the purposes of winning their votes. Now she is breaking that promise once they have already voted and she can't "use" them anymore. This is another example of "say anything or do anything to win."
She "pledged" not to campaign there. Now she wants the delegates. I guess "Clinton haters" like me were right when we said they were dispicable liars at heart, weren't we? That's OK. No need to apolgize for all the flack we took. Just don't go back into the trace into which they mezmerized you back in '92.
I know it's not going to happen, but how sweet would it be if Obama came from nowhere to win the Florida primary. Would Hillary suddenly find a renewed respect for party rules? And speaking of party rules, does she really think Democrats are going to be fine with someone manipulating rules to steal votes in FLORIDA???
Hillary did not "break a pledge" to refrain from campaigning in Florida. She attended a couple of fund raisers -- something Obama is also free to do. Moreover, it's been well-remarked that Obama, too, has made questionable moves with respect to Florida by making national ad buys on CNN, which insures he has spots running in the sunshine state. You don't hear the Clinton campaign whining about that. The fact is, this is just another example of the tougher, savvier candidate out hustling the competition. It's also an example of why she's likely to be elected president. Oh, and if she's successful in getting Florida's and Michigan's delegates seated -- an effort she's perfectly within her rights to lobby for, by the way, as it will ultimately be decided by delegate votes -- then the Florida vote won't seem so "meaningless" then, will it Obamabots?
New rule: People shouldn't be allowed to use the name of revered punk rockers to deliver hackneyed propagandistic crap. "Joe" should've chosen to go by Celine Dion or maybe one of the boys from 98 Degrees while delivering his ridiculous and strained attempts at spinning Obama honoring all the Dem candidates' pledge to avoid Florida as some sort of major defeat. On second thought, the best alias probably would've been Mark Penn.
Hear! Hear!
This whole exercise is shameless and pathetic on so many levels. First, she only came out in favor of seating the delegates AFTER she'd squeezed everything she could out of IA, NH and NV (remember all the talk of how "important" it is for IA and NH to go first?). Second, this is a textbook example of changing the rules in mid game. All you Clintonites who are making the false argument that Obama wants to "disenfranchise" FL need to take a look at reality. He - and Edwards - have no problem with them or Michigan voters voting, they just believe that that needs to be established beforehand, not after one side gains a clear advantage. Obama and Edwards weren't even on the Michigan ballot for Pete's sake! And Clinton wants to seat those delegates.
I'm undecided about who & which party I’m voting for, but found this great article called "Black Voters and a Twist of Bias" on the BlogZine SAVAGE POLITICS. http://savagepolitics.com/?p=59
Actually, Red Brick, the Clinton campaign DID whine about the CNN ad buy.
I'm so sick of Obama supporters saying if Barack doesn't win they're going to vote Republican or not vote at all. Great, were going to get more Sam Alitos on the Supreme Court,lose more wars, have more people without health insurance, and explode the deficit even more, because Obama supporters can't live with the fact that perticipating in democracy means accepting the possibility that you can lose. Let me make this suggestion. This is how we would handle it at my hoouse with my two eightenn month olds: While you're doing that, we will mostly ignore you. We'll check on you occasionally to make sure you're not going to hurt yourself or cause any expensive damage to the hard wood floors, but mostly we'll just leave you alone. Then, in April, when you're ready to be big boys and girls, we can discuss how were going to beat the Republican nominee.
"Really, Joe? Obama can't reach Hispanics in FL? " Huh? What the hell was that? Was it directed at me? My point was that Obama is way behind. If he would miraculously win tonite, it would obviously be because of a last minute surge, coming from somewhere. The only factor that could elicit such a last minute surge would be the Kennedy endorsement of yesterday. Lighten up, dude
ooops Apoligies to JPO. I see there is another Joe that you were referring to. Sorry
Hey sisyphusjns, you and your lying, race baiting candidate can go f*** yourself.
I have already decided I will vote Republican (for the first time in my life) in November if Clinton is the nominee. I agree with the 2:08pm comment. This is about the nine millionth time I've read this sentiment. They're a bunch of spoiled cry babies. Great. We all want more Sam Alitos, and more endless wars, and more quantanamos, and more shitty healthcare and fucked up tax code. Great. Just because you didn't get your nominee chosen. I actually hope Democrats like that leave the party. We'll be stronger as a result.
Why isn't this considered campaigning?
I know most people here are concerned with how the Florida vote will play for either Clinton or Obama, but have we all forgotten about Edwards? He signed the same pledge too and has kept to that pledge, just as Obama has. And to complain that since Obama had an ad buy on a national network means he's campaigning in Florida is a ridiculous stretch. You could say he was campaigning in Mexico for all the difference it makes. That both Edwards and Obama are going to get creamed in a primary they promised not to participate in is not a reflection of Clinton's ability but of her inability to maintain pledges to her own party. Moreover, where was Clinton when Michigan had its primary? Is Clinton saying that their votes don't matter as much as Florida's?
"We'll be stronger as a result." The party will be stronger when it never wins another election? Good luck with that.
If obama's national ads played in florida he has broken his pledge to not campaign there, true or false?
Red Brick, et. al.: Here's another lifelong Democrat and current Obama supporter who would vote for McCain over Hillary in the general. As to the Supreme Court appointments argument, why would I assume that Hillary's poor judgment (on Iraq, Iran, campaign methods, etc.) wouldn't extend to her SC nominees? She would have to come up with some pretty compromised candidates in order to get them confirmed, as well.
Elsylee...you and your article fail to impress as both of you forget to break down the *white* vote... Edwards and Obama literally split the white male vote, while the Clintons carried the white woman vote. The only *ethnic constituency* identified throughout these elections is the Clintons targeting and success among white women. If you're going to try to analyze at least do it openly. Pretty typical of the Clintons and their supporters.
Senator Clinton NEVER had any attention of abiding to the rules already agreed upon. The media knew about this week's ago, but they are playing it up now because Obama won bigger than expected in SC. Chris Matthews is right, any newspaper that leads with the headline that Clinton has "won" Florida is clearly biased.
Those supposedly concerned about SC judges should remember that judges cannot be appointed unless Congress allows it. The Prez can only suggest names... So those of us that believe strongly enough that this election is about getting our country back from the current power mongering status quo can easily vote for another party and campaign heartily for Congressional Reps that are in line with our philosophy on judges. Give the strawmen a rest, ok?
http://www.stephenbainbridge.com/punditry/comments/mccain_and_judges/
That's the thing about democracies...we all have choices, don't we? Settling for more power mongering at all costs status quo isn't something we need to cede to.
Well Karen, I'm sorry to see that my sincere attempts at building party unity have failed with you. I can only hope I have more success with others. I'm curious about your opinion on another isuue. I live in Florida, and I have seen several Obama commercial on tv lately, but no Hillary commercials. Yet supporters of your truth telling, race uniting, messiahesque candidate, are up in arms about a poster announcing that Hillary will be in Florida after the polls close. It may be debatable, whether the poster is campaigning or not, but certainly you would agree that a comercial, run in the weeks before an election, asking people to vote for you, is campaigning. Obama is campaigning in Florida. Doesn't that make the politics of hope appear to be the politics of I hope nobody notices?
Has anyone seen the church that Obama is affiated?He will not wear a flag pin....his loyalty is to Africa....come on people....not Mexicans....Africans will be pouring in and get better care...better jobs, more money
Oh man, this just reeks of desperation. If this makes the news, she loses more voters. She is just so ... cheesy.
Since Obama asked the DNC if they could run the national ads, why is there even a question about this? The whole stripping of delegates is the DNC, and if they agree with Obama, what grounds do the Clintons have in complaining except to whine and get attention? Does anyone question that Hillary holds a definite advantage by invoking her husband's coattail and his name recognition? Has she not milked that for all it's worth? Should Obama supporters be all up in arms about that?
Wonder who championed those without forethought to down the road? Sound anything like the Bush kneejerk policy making?
Obama said it best the other day...when he gives his word to anyone, he keeps it. Can the Clintons make the same claim?
Red Brick, et. al.: Here's another lifelong Democrat and current Obama supporter who would vote for McCain over Hillary in the general. Well, fortunately for the republic, most polls show Hillary Clinton prevailing over John McCain in the general election (they also show her cleaning up on February 5th, but who's counting). I think the "Obama's way or the highway" attitude one encounters so often on political blogs isn't very widely present among the non-political junkie general public. Good grief...perhaps we could spend more time discussing why there's so much wrong with our country that can be directly connected to an ill begotten war that should never have been approved. Or an economy largely failing based on trade deals that have sucked us dry? I'm all for that. But Senator Obama hasn't been overly interested in campaigning about the issues. Platitudes about "hope" and "getting along" and "no more politics as usual" are his calling cards. Issues, not so much. Although I have noticed him pivoting a bit, especially during his SC victory speech.
I'm so sick of Obama supporters saying if Barack doesn't win they're going to vote Republican or not vote at all. Posted by sisyphusjns Here is the thing...I won't vote for Hillary, ever. I don't think she will be a good president, and for you to call me an 18 month old because I choose to do what I want with my vote is very....classy..like your candidate. If Obama doesn't win the nomination, I'll vote for McCain if he is the nominee or write in Ichiro if he isn't. To tell people that they are being a baby for not voting for Hillary is telling people to get in line, which to me is very un-democratic. Now with Hillary pandering to voters in Florida is still a me thing. She didn't need the florida voters before , but she needs them now. 3 weeks ago was she saying about how disenfranchised the FL voters were?
Whoa Now -- The first time I voted, I wanted Jerry Brown to be president. I wound up with Bill Clinton. I was plenty pissed about it too. I wasn't going to vote at all. (eventually I did vote for Clinton, but that's not my point) The fact of the matter is that Bill Clinton became President. In the first several months of his presidency he instituted "don't ask don't tell" Yes, this was a half ass, seemingly chicken sh*t move, until you consider that Bill Clinton was the most powerful man ever to suggest that maybe homosexuals should be able to serve country in the military. George Bush wouldn't have done that, and neither would John McCain. If Bill Clinton had not won that election, by 1996 no democrat would have appointed a judge in 16 years, and Ruth Bader Ginsburg would not be on the Supreme Court, nor would Steven Bryer. Bill Clinton did not put industry lobbiest in charge of the EPA, Labor Department, and FDA. Prior to Bill Clinton's Presidency no woman had served as Attorney General or Secretary of State. I didn't want Bill Clinton to be President -- But I glad it was him instead of a republican, or a lot of things that Obama supporters care about would be in significantly worse shape. I'm not singing his praises, I think Jerry Brown would have done more, but the difference between having CLinton and Bush the first is Huge. Obviously, if your an independent, and not a liberal that doesn't deserve much consideration. But if you are a Democrat or Liberal, and you wind up with McCain, I suspect you'll regret it. As for the 18 month old thing, it's impossible for me not to express sarcasim once I've thought of it.
I live in Florida The only fair thing is to have a caucus in March or April and let all the candidates campaign Florida should have a voice in the selection of the democratic nominee - but a "fair" voice If the Clintons attempt to push this and Michigan to be seated as is - they will destroy what is left of an already fractured democratic party The fault here is absolutely on the STATE democratic party - they played "dare" with the National Party -- the STATE is at fault and they are the ones behind this celebrate Hillary stuff to get themselves off the hook with the voters -- They are trying to channel the voters anger elsewhere when is SQUARELY belongs at the State Party I can tell you first hand I have spoken to four people who wish they could take back their early vote -- Maybe Hillary would win - but she has to do it fair and square
I live in Florida The only fair thing is to have a caucus in March or April and let all the candidates campaign Florida should have a voice in the selection of the democratic nominee - but a "fair" voice If the Clintons attempt to push this and Michigan to be seated as is - they will destroy what is left of an already fractured democratic party The fault here is absolutely on the STATE democratic party - they played "dare" with the National Party -- the STATE is at fault and they are the ones behind this celebrate Hillary stuff to get themselves off the hook with the voters -- They are trying to channel the voters anger elsewhere when is SQUARELY belongs at the State Party I can tell you first hand I have spoken to four people who wish they could take back their early vote -- Maybe Hillary would win - but she has to do it fair and square
Hillary strikes me as a prostitute and Bill is her pimp daddy.
alison - if you live in Florida you should know that the republican legislature set the primary election date and it was signed into law by the republican governor. I don't like our legislature, the governor is ok, but the fact of the matter is that the state is soverign, and have the right to set its election dates whenever it wants. the problem is that howard dean (the obama of 2004)has a napoleanic complex. There is no need to rerun the election in florida. only one candidate campaigned in florida, obama, and he is losing by 20 points. it wont matter because hillary is going to end this race on feb. 5. she wont have a majority of delagates, but she have such a lead that she will be inevidable.
alison - if you live in Florida you should know that the republican legislature set the primary election date and it was signed into law by the republican governor. I don't like our legislature, the governor is ok, but the fact of the matter is that the state is soverign, and have the right to set its election dates whenever it wants. the problem is that howard dean (the obama of 2004)has a napoleanic complex. There is no need to rerun the election in florida. only one candidate campaigned in florida, obama, and he is losing by 20 points. it wont matter because hillary is going to end this race on feb. 5. she wont have a majority of delagates, but she have such a lead that she will be inevidable.
sisyphusjns, If Clinton wasnt good enough for you then, why are they good enough for you now? You're convinced that Brown could of done more...well Obama can do more in office. I'm an independent who mostly votes for Dems...but Hillary is such a dividing person, I don't A) seeing her win the general election against McCain, and B) being able to move policy if she does. You're backing the wrong horse, if she wins the democratic party is doomed for the next four years. She will not get my vote because McCain will A) do a better job of moving america back to the center and B) won't divide America close to Civil war proportions. If you can't see Hillary's pandering in Florida you're wearing Clinton shaded rose glasses. she weeks ago mention it wasnt votes that counted it was delegates, Florida never even left her lips..now after SC she is all of a sudden interested in what the voters have to say in Florida? I don't buy it and you shouldn't either...vote for hope, unity and change.
sisyphusjns, If Clinton wasnt good enough for you then, why are they good enough for you now? You're convinced that Brown could of done more...well Obama can do more in office. I'm an independent who mostly votes for Dems...but Hillary is such a dividing person, I don't A) seeing her win the general election against McCain, and B) being able to move policy if she does. You're backing the wrong horse, if she wins the democratic party is doomed for the next four years. She will not get my vote because McCain will A) do a better job of moving america back to the center and B) won't divide America close to Civil war proportions. If you can't see Hillary's pandering in Florida you're wearing Clinton shaded rose glasses. she weeks ago mention it wasnt votes that counted it was delegates, Florida never even left her lips..now after SC she is all of a sudden interested in what the voters have to say in Florida? I don't buy it and you shouldn't either...vote for hope, unity and change.
Whatever you say sisyphusjns...we'll all get in line like the good party people the Clintons depend on...forget that we're AMERICAN first and might have a different view of how this country should be governed than the dynastic folks do. Party over country...fine.
Blech.
Oy Thanks for the information about the two time zones in Florida.
Another Tracy Flick moment brought to you by democratic machine politics. icky. And for those who have issue with Obama supporters who will not support Hillary. Get over it. You are missing the point. These people are not all "Party Faithful Democrates". I used to be one until NAFTA, WTO, Capital Gains Tax Cuts, War Votes, No Children Left Behind, and Welfare Reform pretty much turned me off. "Republican Lite"? I am voting for the people who I think best represent the way I think about America and where I want the country to go. My mother is voting Obama. She is a 77 Year Old life time Republican who used to work for a couple of republican congressmen in Illinois. I can tell you she will not be voting for Hillary if she is nominated. It is not a Democratic vs Republican Party issue. Wake up and smell the coffee.
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Will this really help her? She is going to be overshadowed tonight by the GOP contest. This is would be like the New England Patiots celebrating a pre-season victory. Weird.
Posted by Ben | January 29, 2008 8:04 AM