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First Take: The Debate Belongs To Obama, But The Best (And) Last Moment Belongs To Hillary

21 Feb 2008 09:52 pm

Talk about a final answer.

"She was blessed" to "give others the same opportunities that I take for granted. That's why I get up in the morning. That's what motivates me for this campaign. No matter what happens in this contest, and I am honored to be here with Barack Obama... whatever happens, we're going to be fine. I just hope that we'll be able to say the same thing about the American people."

Almost wistful ... acknowledging reality... but forcefully asserting her humanity ... extremely, seemingly, genuine.

And at the right time... at the end... earning one of the only standing ovations in the 40-plus hours of debates.

If this moment makes the debate for her, she will have pulled out in the end.

It was Obama's debate for most of the night. HRC needed him to stumble; he did not.

Both Obama and Clinton were under the weather, and they seemed subdued. Some new ground was broken. Clinton promised to sign a pathway to legalization for immigrants within 100 days of her inauguration, which goes farther than what she’s said before. That may make news in Texas. Both had strong answers on Cuba, but hers was better than his in terms of the general election.

At this stage, though, the debates are mostly about moments, and Obama had the second-best I think, when he rebutted Clinton’s assertion that Democrats needed to “get real” about his candidacy.

Obama’s answers were well plotted -- a veggies-to-desert pivot, first recounting empathetic encounters with hurting citizens and then saying that Washington as currently constituted couldn’t solve that problem.

Clinton’s reference to looking at YouTubes of Obama’s allegedly lifted speeches seemed a little forced. She was loudly booed when she defended her campaign’s plagiarism allegations and let go with a line that seemed far too cute for the moment.

Clinton gave strong answers on health care and on local issues, and regularly referred to local issues. She had a strong response to questions about John McCain and earmarking late in the debate. Her final answer was humble and endearing. She ended stronger than she started.

The puzzler of the night, to me, is why Clinton refused to answer a simple question that she clearly has an answer to: And that is: Is Barack Obama ready to be commander in chief? Clearly -- the answer, for Clinton, is “yes.” It’s her best argument against him. But twice she avoided it and instead recapitulated her own resume.

At this point, she has nothing to lose by making that argument. The fact that she did not suggests to me that she is thinking, already, about life as a Senator from New York supporting Barack Obama and did not want to give John McCain the soundbite that could doom Obama’s candidacy. I don’t think she’s conceded the nomination in her mind, but I do think she had two temporal audiences in mind when she answered: Democrats now and the nation in the fall.

Comments (260)

Talk about lifting lines. Wasn't the "we are going to be fine" line something Edwards said??

Marc: What do you think about Hillary's final answer?

Is Barack Obama ready to be commander in chief? Clearly -- the answer, for Clinton, is “yes.” It’s her best argument against him.

Maybe she's as confused as you are.

I remember Bill Clinton used that line about the knocks he took are nothing compared to what the American people have taken. She used the same line!

Plagiarist!

The last comment by Hilary sounded pretty much like John Edwards' pitch few weeks ago - At the end of the campaign, Elizabeth and I will be fine. But will America be fine? Doesn't that count as plagiarism? Just wondring.

The last comment by Hilary sounded pretty much like John Edwards' pitch few weeks ago - At the end of the campaign, Elizabeth and I will be fine. But will America be fine? Doesn't that count as plagiarism? Just wondering.

Heh, talk about the power of preconceptions -- my wife and I were sort of aghast at Hillary's final answer. It seems extraordinarily stilted and unnatural, and very much underlined why we've both moved away from her as a candidate over the last couple of months.

Also, uh, Marc ... the standing ovation was because it was the previously designated final answer of the debate. So, uh, no great surprise there. Besides, I heard the hosts refer to at least two other standing O's, so I'm not completely sure which debate you were watching.

The feeling I got from this debate is that HIllary's heart wasn't really in it. For a lot of the debate, it seemed like she wasn't even trying. I was surprised she did not attack him more forcefully.

It's also strange that she had most the meanest moment (xerox) and the most sympathy-generating moment (the end).

She basically looked like someone who has lost and kind of knows that she has lost.

Even I, a harsh critic of hers, felt a little sympathy for her tonight. But I don't think this type of sympathy translates into some sort of electoral surge for her. What I hope, kind of her her own sake but also for the party's, is that she does not drag this out and exits with some dignity intact.

Was I watching the same debate? I thought the standing ovation was for both candidates as it came at the end of the debate....??!?

Can someone dig up that Bill Clinton line?

Let's not forget, aside from the Edwards and '92 Clinton grifts, Sen. Clinton began that last answer by asking herself the New Hampshire diner question ("How do you do it?")...just in case we all missed the point.

I don't want to step on the Senator's valedictory moment, but all this talk of "letting her guard down" and "the true Hillary Clinton" would resonate more if we hadn't seen it play out so similarly before.

did not want to give John McCain the soundbite that could doom Obama’s candidacy

I mean, assuming she has it. Seems like a stretch.

Also, I think Kevin nailed it with this:

I don't want to step on the Senator's valedictory moment, but all this talk of "letting her guard down" and "the true Hillary Clinton" would resonate more if we hadn't seen it play out so similarly before.

The puzzler of the night, to me, is why Clinton refused to answer a simple question that she clearly has an answer to: And that is: Is Barack Obama ready to be commander in chief? Clearly -- the answer, for Clinton, is “yes.” It’s her best argument against him.

Sorry, do you mean "the answer is 'no'"?

Because using the tragedies of a war that you helped authorize and start to minimize scandals of your own making is presidential.

It is pure shamelessness, and just because she realized that it is over, doesn't mean she should be credited. They ran an awful campaign and deserve to lose.

Plagiarism is plagiarism, no doubt about that, the bottomline is who has the momentum right now. Bill was young and charming in 1992, so is Barack smart and ready to lead NOW.

Plagiarism is plagiarism, no doubt about that, the bottomline is who has the momentum right now. Bill was young and charming in 1992, so is Barack smart and ready to lead NOW.

Plagiarism is plagiarism, no doubt about that, the bottomline is who has the momentum right now. Bill was young and charming in 1992, so is Barack smart and ready to lead NOW.

Plagiarism is plagiarism, no doubt about that, the bottomline is who has the momentum right now. Bill was young and charming in 1992, so is Barack smart and ready to lead NOW.

Good commentary, I think. and Yeah, this was a goof...and one that would pass spell check:

Is Barack Obama ready to be commander in chief? Clearly -- the answer, for Clinton, is “yes.” It’s her best argument against him.

the author meant to use the word "no"... but given that this was written all of twenty minutes after the debate was over....not bad (in fact, good).

I think Sunny just plagiarized him or herself.

It's unbelievable that she is getting credit for an "unscripted genunine" moment that was anything, but! It was almost verbatim of Edwards' closing remarks at a previous debate!

I didn't care for Hillary's closing moment at all. It was a rerun of the New Hampshire "moment" sans tear. And I hated the New Hampshire moment. She running for president for god's sake.

The best part was her segue into the part where she assured her supporters that she had a lot of support and would be okay and finally said something nice about Obama.

She has run an expensive, arrogant, mean and often dumb campaign. She was no more conversant in policy this evening than Obama. She often nodded along in agreement with what he was saying. Where Obama disagreed with her, he was able to explain very clearly why.

I thought he did a great job. And I thought she demonstrated that she is prepared to lose gracefully.

.....one final comment (for me) is that ultimately nothing was new... it was the same old blah...(and a tad bit boring)...but the up-shot is, nothing new: then Barack Obama is the next Democratic nominee.
Hillary is a competent, if corrupt, and has had the misfortune to be running against a super-star (ala the Beatles)(20,000 cheering fans in Idaho, in Dallas, in Houston..,etc.).

Yeah, she can carry a tune, etc.... but in what will really carry this election, the perception of momentum; the "American-Idol" perception...Barack is the Rolling Stones, and Hillary is just another coffee house folk singer...

(Rightly, or wrongly): It's over(as McCain will soon find out).

Barack Obama is our next President.

I found the way Hillary built her close on her heart-wrenching anecdote about the wounded Iraq war vets to be grotesque. She voted to authorize that war--putting these very people at risk in order to seem strong on defense. Now she is moved by their tragedy. Better she had considered their fates before she voted for this ill-conceived war.

OMG Lisa. Were you actually old enough to remember what happened on 9/11 and shortly there after. The country was mislead and manipulated by GW into believing that Iraq had something significant to do with what happened 9/11 and that the only solution was to go to war in order to prevent anything more from happening to us. Hillary, like so many others, in the US senate believed all of the misinfo that came out and voted accordingly..that's all. She did not just vote yes so she could watch American soldiers die then plan on using their death in the future for her campaign...

Marc, I think you hit it dead on. Barack owned the night but the last seemingly genuine answer did capture the audience's attention.

I strongly feel that the last question was prepared ahead of time and she may have been aware of it. This is because in every debate with CNN and the post-debate coverage, there is a small but noticeable pro-Clinton bias.

Marc, you give Hillary too much credit for her last statement. How can she spend precious debate minutes in attacking Obama's xeroxed speech, and then lift John Edwards' lines?

The most bizarre/funny moment of the debate for me was when Hillary was defending her strategy to handle the sub-prime crises,she said...

“When I said we should put a moratorium on home foreclosures, basically your response was, well, that wouldn't work. And, you know, in the last week, even President Bush has said we have to do something like that.”

Given how much she has trashed President Bush's actions and policies, I’m not sure having Bush agree with her is a good thing.

Politics is all about the RIGHT MOMENT
Why Hillary voted for war- that is not the point. Her voting for war is not turning out to be RIGHT today...and Obama NOT voting for war is turning out to be RIGHT today...again POLITICS is all about the RIGHT Moment..and he has the MOMENT...

ANY vote for war is a vote to watch American soldiers die.

And true Washington politiicans ALWAYS use their deaths to further their campaings.

ANY vote for war is a vote to watch American soldiers die.

And true Washington politiicans ALWAYS use their deaths to further their campaings.

ANY vote for war is a vote to watch American soldiers die.

And true Washington politiicans ALWAYS use their deaths to further their campaings.

I criticized Edwards for that line which he repeated over and over again during the campaign. It's a line that only an elitist would make, because the American people, people who work for a living, don't want to hear about how fine you're going to be regardless of who becomes president. I couldn't believe that no one in Edwards camp clued him in to how out of touch such a statement was.

It's amazing that Hillary would poach this losing line, but I guess that's been the story of the whole Clinton campaign, ready to lose on day one.

Good points made within the debates! From each point, who had the opportunity to respond to them first (unless it was agreed upon with a coin toss, etc.)? The person who responds afterward now has the opportunity to listen and then add their own personal view, including personal stories to engage the audience/location. To be fair, the questions should have been given to both Senator Obama initially as well as Senator Clinton. Senator Clinton is no longer the frontrunner, therefore Senator Obama should now be targeted and treated as one where the questions are asked to HIM first. But....

...we saw what occurred when Senator Clinton was finally permitted to respond AFTER Senator Obama during the final question for the evening. Thank you again for all the comments!

I cringe whenever I hear Hillary Clinton talk about being the champion of the middle class. She has more money than just about 99 % of the American pop and she wants to tell us she understands what it is like to not have enough? Sometimes, I think, does this woman really listen to herself? Does she know what the words honest, or genuine, even mean? Do they register! I really do believe she can make a difference and maybe in her heart she wants to...but she loses all credibility by pretending she is something she is not. There's two sides to this woman and I think she really is a divided person that I don't want running the country, at all.

Just wait until November and see what happens.
By the way, I watched American Idol instead of the debate.

Just wait until November and see what happens.
By the way, I watched American Idol instead of the debate.

After Hilary's attack on Obama's "plagiarism" She uses another candidates closing from the very same primary season. The AUDACITY is rather stunning? Did her campaign think this would not be noticed?

Here are the three places John Edwards using these words first
John Edwards Closing debate in Dec 2007
To remember that in the midst of political hoopla the glorification of politicians and presidential candidates that somewhere in America tonight a child will go to bed hungry, somewhere in America tonight a family will have to go to the emergency room and beg for health care for a sick child, that somewhere in America today a father who's worked for 30 or 40 years to support his family will lose his job, and that that's what's at stake in this election. What's not at stake are any of us. All of us are going to be just fine no matter what happens in this election. But what's at stake is whether America is going to be fine.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200771213047


2.. On Oct. 30 at a debate in Philadelphia, former Sen. John Edwards said:

This is not about lobbyists. As a matter of fact, it's not about any of us. The truth is, when this election is over, I'm going to be fine. Senator Clinton is going to be fine. Senator Obama's going to be fine. The question is: Will America be fine? And will we ensure -- and I think this is the great moral test of our generation -- will we ensure that our children have a better life than we have had? That's the responsibility we have.

3. On January 30 2008 Edwards Speech

I want to say this to everyone: with Elizabeth, with my family, with my friends, with all of you and all of your support, this son of a millworker's gonna be just fine. Our job now is to make certain that America will be fine

http://www.johnedwards.com/news/press-releases/20080130/

It has always struck me as so ironic that the 02 Iraq vote, which she clearly did so out of political cover, is the one issue that Obama can, correctly, call her on; anyway, she voted for that to look tough - and now it's making her look stupid. But that was six years ago...

With the economy going down the tubes, the war isn't so much an issue anymore, is it?

The debaters are both democrats and as democrats they have the same philosophical bent. Any wonder why they have very few differences. As Obama has always said, the main difference is ability to bring people together to solve the national questions. The other is judgement. Both arguments are mutually exclusive.

It's a shame that Clinton's best answer of the night was "Xeroxed" from Edwards

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zAYItnI-lPo

It looked like Obama really wanted to respond to Hillary's last saga of the night, but I think the crowd stole the opportunity from him with the standing ovation. No more time.

I hope that any veterans watching tonight will remember how the veterans from Gulf War I were treated (not treated actually) for Gulf War Syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_syndrome

The thousands of brave young men and women who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan deserve a President who will stand up for them by making sure they get the help they need as they return home. May God bless them all.

Hey Prince..he did have a chance to not vote for the war. HE WASN'T EVEN A SENATOR!! HE DID NOT VOTE! He gave a speech..period. He's too green to have even been there. But you of the cult of Obama can't seem to get that straight.

HIllary '08 now McCain '08!!

i agree with a few of the earlier posts that final standing O was clearly done as a tip of the cap to both of the candidates as it came following not only the pre-designated final question but also after a handshake that was clearly a moment of resolution to what the audience had been sitting through for 2 hrs.

The debate belonged to Obama? Yeah right, it wasn't even close. Barack Obama congratulates himself on living a rather obvious and privileged life, as a "minority." He makes it seem that his life story is somehow special and gives him the qualifications to become commander and chief. I am a minority, was abandoned by my father, ect.....too, but I know I would be an awful executive.

Somehow his life experience can replace qualifications. He has not shown good judgment, and every time he makes a mistake, which he admits he makes frequently, I cringe because he comes just that much closer to becoming a "bonehead." And let's get this straight, he allowed his associate Rezko to run a slum in his congressional district when he was the state senator of Illinois. Watch this video if you don’t believe me.

http://obamawho.wordpress.com/2008/02/17/hey-obama-and-rezko-march-3rd-is-coming/

Is anyone aware that he last line about how her plight is nothing compared to the lives of others is nothing more than PLAGIARISM from none other than....Bill Clinton's '92 campaign. This would all be funny if it weren't so pathetic and predictable.

Politicians using each other's lines is common and really doesn't rise to the level of plagiarism. However, hypocrisy is hypocrisy and the Clintons are as guilty as ever of that charge.

No wonder the voters this year are rejecting her and opting for the more talented and classy choice of Obama.

The great news for the country is that Obama still hasn't been put to a true test and will continue to believe that he is the next Messiah. Once HRC is out of the picture, Obama will stumble as it will become crystal clear he has no substance and does not know what he is actually going to do (except "change something" at "some time" in "some way"). For example, he is starting to flap in the wind as to when he will pull troops out of Iraq. He is now dribbling "well, maybe I'll meet with political leaders, maybe I'll discuss this with military leaders, maybe I'll assess the situation in Iraq, maybe I'll just guess or maybe I'll just figure out that I have no clue what to do in Iraq."

With regard to the plagiarism question posed -
My most favorite line of the debate tonight came from Senator Obama's response "...Now Hillary ...this is where we start getting into silly season, in politics."
John Stewart is still laughing with glee at the new material he was just handed no doubt being adapted as we speak. Images of Monty Python's John Cleese come to mind as well doing the infamous "Ministry of Silly Walks."

Perhaps Hillary & Bill too - if he's not too busy - might be willing to head up a "Silly Season Summit" political coalition. First item on the agenda: mandating "SillySpeak" as a first language.

Second favorite line was at the end: "no matter what happens, I am honored to be here with Barack Obama... I just hope it is enough for the American people."

Turns out hope really is a tangible asset.
Joanie in New Hampshire

I am neither democrat nor republican, I am a radical independent. I will be voting for McCain.

Hillary needed to turn the race towrds her advantage tonight. If that is possible.

She did not do this. She also did not even stay even... she seems to have managed to make things worse for herself.

She is broke, Bill has been sent into exile, and the polls in Texas are tightening up.

She is toast.

Another "genius" move by the Clinton machine. They have their journalistic allies release the McCain smear story the day before the Texas debate. Then Hillary Clinton does pretty well, especially on the national security-commander in chief issue. And it's overshadowed entirely by the McCain story. What did Bob Dylan say, "it's all over now, Baby Blue". And maybe it is.

The founding fathers put together a system to safeguard us from our leaders. Given the choices we have, never have I felt more in debt to them than I do now.

Hillary was not "loudly booed". The Obamabots were heard to register their usual disgust at anyone who punctures a hole in their Messiah - but nothing more. The line had teeth and will resonate.

Whats more important is that contra Jeffrey Toobin, the most obnoxiously moronic talking head in the history of the medium, the xerox statement didn't bomb - as evidenced by the CNN "undecideds" dial line. When she delivered "xerox", the line went back down to 50, but did not go under 50.

"Xerox" was carried on all three local news channels in my media market - and I'm in Ohio.
Obama is an empty suit, and working class people aren't down for a tin-type Bush with better vocabulary. nObama!

Hillary was not "loudly booed". The Obamabots were heard to register their usual disgust at anyone who punctures a hole in their Messiah - but nothing more. The line had teeth and will resonate.

Whats more important is that contra Jeffrey Toobin, the most obnoxiously moronic talking head in the history of the medium, the xerox statement didn't bomb - as evidenced by the CNN "undecideds" dial line. When she delivered "xerox", the line went back down to 50, but did not go under 50.

"Xerox" was carried on all three local news channels in my media market - and I'm in Ohio.
Obama is an empty suit, and working class people aren't down for a tin-type Bush with better vocabulary. nObama!

Read the rest of the origin of Hillary's Grand Finale this evening at the posting titled Hello Pot! It's Hillary Clinton's Kettle Calling!! at Danieldrezner.com/blog

THIS DEBATE DIDN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO HELP HER CASE. HILLARY CLINTON KNOWS THAT SHE IS ON HER LAST LEG AND DECIDED TO EXIT THE RACE RATHER GRATEFULLY... SHE CANNOT CONNECT WITH VOTERS AND HER VOICE ALONE IS ANNOYING AS I DON'T KNOW WHAT, NOTHING PERSONAL.
PLUS ALL HILLARY DOES IS MAKE EXCUSES....
EXCUSES, EXCUSES....EXCUSES... AND THAT'S WHY SHE KEEPS LOOSING AND CAN'T CONNECT...!!! AT FIRST HER CAMP STATED WELL... SHE DIDN'T REALLY COMPETE IN IOWA THAT'S WHY SHE FINISHED 3RD; THEN... PART OF THE STRATEGY WAS TO LET HIM (OBAMA) WIN SC BECAUSE HE IS BLK SO WE CAN GET THE BLK PEOPLE TO VOTE FOR HER IN THE GENERAL ELECTION; THEN... WELL, SHE WON ONLY 8 OUT OF 22 STATES ON SUPER TUESDAY BUT SHE WON MOST OF THE BIG STATES, THE ONES THAT MATTER; THEN, WELL... SHE DOESN'T DO WELL IN CAUCUS STATES; THEN, WELL... THE DEMOGRAPHIC OF THOSE STATES FAVORED BARACK BECAUSE OF BLACKS AND UPPER CLASS INCOME; THEN, WELL... WE KNEW THAT SHE WASN'T GOING TO WIN THOSE STATES, THAT IS STILL PART OF THE STRATEGY; AND NOW THAT SHE LOST WISCONSIN, WELL,,, WISCONSIN WASN'T A FAIR TEST BECAUSE A NEW CAMPAIGN MANAGER HAD JUST TAKEN OVER AND ONLY HAD ONE WEEK TO PREPARE.
UHhh!! I WONDER WHAT THE EXCUSE IS GOING TO BE WHEN SHE LOOSES TEXAS... WELL... SHE LOST BECAUSE ALL THE LATINOS IN TEXAS SUDDENLY DECIDED TO GO BACK TO MEXICO SO THEY COULDN'T CAST THEIR VOTE !!!
HILLARY TALKS ABOUT GETTING REAL, WELL... GET REAL HILLARY, YOU LOST 2 WEEKS AGO!!!
I HAVE A SUGGESTION FOR YOU...GO HOME, GET A MAKE OVER, DIVORCE BILL, HOOK UP WITH HIS BEST FRIEND, TAKE ALL HIS MONEY, QUIT YOUR JOB, GO TO AN ISLAND, AND WRITE A BOOK ABOUT IT SO THAT IT CAN BE #1 ON THE OPRAH BOOK CLUB!!!

Hola. Mi nombre es Fernando. I don't speak English well but I try. I thinks that Hillary Clinton one the debate this night. She is clearly better than Obama. He look scared. Quiero que Hillary gane. Clinton has experence. Obama even admit that he used drogas. This is not good. The Latinos of Texas support her because we Latinos believe in America. We Latinos must be togethre and be with Hillary. Good times Hillary!

Hillary's worst moment of the night, in my opinion, came after the Xerox comment when she was talking about foreclosures. This is from CNN's Transcript. (

Clinton) "When I said we should put a moratorium on home foreclosures, basically your response was, well, that wouldn't work. And, you know, in the last week, even President Bush has said we have to do something like that."

Clear as day.

If President Bush agrees with it, it must be good! This is Clinton as our potential leader? Sounds more like a follower to me... Sounds very familiar to the vote on Iraq. Sorry Hillary, but my vote just switched to Obama.

Proud of Barack tonight. Enjoyed how he deftly handled attempted slams by both Hillary and decade-long Clinton loyalist Campbell Brown, and at those moments it was even more apparent how he commanded the room, audience and "journalists" alike. More importantly than being proud of Barack, now that it's looking more and more like the parties are going to have enough brains to nominate him and John McCain, I am even prouder to be an American.

I missed the foreclosures comment, but it seems to me that the clear implication is, "This idea is so obviously a good one, even a dunce like the president can see that."

I can see how other interpretations are possible, however.

How long until Obama declares that he is more "Popular than Jesus"?!?. When he isn't preaching, he's a decidedly Ordinary candidate. Hillary For President!!!

I support Hillary Clinton for President of the United States of America. She's has so much experience. She is clever, and she is smart. And I just can't get over her experience. Golly! Senator Obama simply looks inferior next to her. It's really sad. I had so much hope for him. Did you all notice the standing ovation she got at the end? That's because this country loves her. Obama needs to go back to Washington and represent Illinois in the Senate. He's clearly not ready for the presidency. If Obama were to lead, America would become and even darker place than it is under President Bush.

Obama isn't a god.

Silvio - You seem fake...I and millions of Americans watched the debate tonight. It would appear that Obama answered all questions regarding his plans for the economy, Iraq, and illegal aliens etc. I am ready to vote for Obama. His answers were just what I was looking for...inclusion not exclusion.

Team Clinton is now running scared.It will seem in the next one week that she has conceded by talking the way she did in the final moment.It was like eulogisng the end of her campaign especially when Obama turned to offer her a handshake.That is not good in politics.Team Obama will be taking advantage of this in their paid advertisements,and people will listen to it.
With all that experience,she did not produce a knock-out but instead was well marched by her Obama.
Things are no longer running the way they were supposed to.

I don't get why he doesn't use this response to the commander-in-chief question -- "I have had more experience with military, diplomatic and international issues than did Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush when they came into office."

People keep clammoring about HRC's experience. Being the first lady and traveling with your husband to foreign countries does not qualify.

GO OBAMA 08

The reason Hillary never directly answered when asked if Obama is ready to be commander-in-chief is because 1.) she knows he actually is (she's seen what he's accomplished in the Senate) and 2.) if she lies and says "no," the line is going to end up in a McCain ad in the general election. She doesn't want to go there...she has a future in the Democratic party (with Obama as its potential leader).

Marc,

The standing ovation was for both candidates at the end of the debate. It wasn't specifically for Hillary Clinton.

Pitiful. Belittle your opponent - Change you can zerox - and then steal Edwards speech. What hubris this woman has. She must think the American people are not paying any attention or have no memory. We do remember that she did not vote against the Bankruptcy Bill in 2005. I am not sure how that was fighting for people with bills piling up on the table that are keeping them up at night. Barack Obama voted against it. Check out his speech on the Senate floor against the bill
http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r109:1:./temp/~r1096HV9T8:e111368:

I think that Silly Season comment will resonate as the catch phrase to this election.

They both looked good. Clinton had the worst and best moments. But as a whole it looks like Obama will be the winner of the election. Clinton needed the knockout and that was clearly not there.

How about Obama/Richarson 2008

Bring on McCain and his 100 year war.

Barack HUSSEIN Obama lost. Need I say more? Well, I will. Senator Barack HUSSEIN Obama lost. That's it. He's finished. Hillary was much more articulate. She was incredibly witty. I couldn't stop cheering. She has so much experience. She will be ready on day one. Barack Obama will never be as good as Hillary. He needs to keep quiet and allow her to do what she was destined to do. Maybe he'll be ready some day but not soon. He's superficial. Maybe he speaks well, but big deal. He doesn't know anything, and I'm sick of people cheering him on. His supporters act like they're in a cult. Why? Because they spout out meaningless slogans over and over and over. In any case, support Hillary! She's got experience and solutions. She'll be ready on day one.

Hillary's problem was very clear today. Her plaiagarsim charges and her moving last comment show her internal inconsistency and struggles. She was, I thought, graceful in her concession speech --- I am honored to be here with Barack.

Opps that would be Obama/Richardson

Does anyone want to buy 100,000 bumper stickers?

The problem with her final answer is that "opportunity" is not hers or the Presidents to "give". What sets the United States apart from most other nations is precisely that government here is not allowed that kind of power.

Robert in D.C.

The problem with her final answer is that "opportunity" is not hers or the Presidents to "give". What sets the United States apart from most other nations is precisely that government here is not allowed that kind of power.

Robert in D.C.

I thought the most memorable moment was when she said "I am honored, absolutely honored to be here with Barack Obama".

Wow, I think she just joined the Obama fan club. Give her a sticker!

Janine.....When did being the presidency become someone's destiny. I am a 38 year old woman and my entire life has been spent voting for a Bush or a Clinton. Am I to believe that no other family in America is qualified to be President.

To those who claim Obama is all words, and no substance have you looked at this record or are you depending on what politicians have to say in their speeches for details... read the Gettysburg Address - no details. Read MLK - not much of what you might call "substance". Speeches are about inspiring. They are the poetry in politics. And it is as important to be able to motivate as it is to have fleshed out policy strategies, and records.

If you want to know more about Obama go to Google for Government - usaspending.gov - (which Obam helped make), his website, or if you really need someone else to find the substance for you then check out this blog.

http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/02/obama-actually.html

Hey, that "Barack Hussein" stuff isn't cool. Yes, Hillary won. Therefore America won, but don't be a jerk. Hillary will make America a place of hope, love, prosperity, and love. She'll be a wonderful president. She will surpass her husband. America will propser and be great once again. Yes, Mr. Osama lost, but you don't need to dehumanize him. We're not enemies here. We're Americans.

Yolanda - The trouble with your question is that it implies that all of the Bushes and Clintons that have been in office were actually qualified. However, your point is well taken. In fact, if you include the Reagan years the last time that a Bush or Clinton was not president or directly in line for presidency was in 1980. At which point you were not even 1. Well welcome to the new era, because we will see someone different. That is for sure.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/An_echo_from_Hillary.html
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/179614.php


Yes. while accusing Barack of plagiarism, she herself did plagiarize.

1. TPM Reader CG found one example in this November 1992 article by Anna Quindlen ...

**Bill Clinton, 92: "The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits the

people of this state and this country have been taking for a long time."

**Hillary Clinton, tonight: "You know, the hits I’ve taken in life are nothing

compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country."

2. **Hillary Tonight:

You know, whatever happens, we're going to be fine. You know, we have strong

support from our families and our friends. I just hope that we'll be able to say

the same thing about the American people. And that's what this election should be about.


**Edwards the December 13 debate:

What's not at stake are any of us. All of us are going to be just fine no matter

what happens in this election. But what's at stake is whether America is going to be fine.

I am a Latino, and I live in Plano, Texas. Hillary Clinton one the debate. She has more experience. She will be ready on day one. She loves America, and America loves her. She embodies America. America embodies her. She needs America. America needs her. She make love to America and America make love to her. She loves America so much. I love America, too. It has given me many thing. I don't understand how America could do without an American hero like Hillary. She loves this country like it is her child. My eyes are starting to water. I'm sorry.

And I don't like what's happening with this Obama character. I don't mean to sound angry, but he seems like the leader of a cult. His acolytes say meaningless jargon. There is no substance. They speak in generalities. It's like cheap propaganda. Hillary's supporter do this sometimes but when they do it, it's an exceptions. I should finish now. Just remember. Hillary has experience. She has solutions. And she will be ready on day one.

this is the first time i've stumble upon this blog and it appears that many read it. my only question is, why? did anyone see the debate marc was watching? ok, so i had another question.

Wow, even if she is out, and I still don't think she is, it would behoove Obamabots to respect a person who has spent her life trying to solve major problems in health care, children's and women's rights. Her line about Bush is being completely misrepresented in here - she was saying that a moratorium on foreclosures was so obvious even Bush GOT IT. Duh. Hillary Clinton is a class act - I have met her and seen the non-media biased person - and those of you who have done little true research and have bought into and used the right wing propaganda in order to benefit your candidates should seriously be ashamed. If you truly believe and support the politics of hope, perhaps you should try to live by them?

Wow, even if she is out, and I still don't think she is, it would behoove Obamabots to respect a person who has spent her life trying to solve major problems in health care, children's and women's rights. Her line about Bush is being completely misrepresented in here - she was saying that a moratorium on foreclosures was so obvious even Bush GOT IT. Duh. Hillary Clinton is a class act - I have met her and seen the non-media biased person - and those of you who have done little true research and have bought into and used the right wing propaganda in order to benefit your candidates should seriously be ashamed. If you truly believe and support the politics of hope, perhaps you should try to live by them?

Wow, even if she is out, and I still don't think she is, it would behoove Obamabots to respect a person who has spent her life trying to solve major problems in health care, children's and women's rights. Her line about Bush is being completely misrepresented in here - she was saying that a moratorium on foreclosures was so obvious even Bush GOT IT. Duh. Hillary Clinton is a class act - I have met her and seen the non-media biased person - and those of you who have done little true research and have bought into and used the right wing propaganda in order to benefit your candidates should seriously be ashamed. If you truly believe and support the politics of hope, perhaps you should try to live by them?

hillary has proven time and time again that she will do anything and say anything to get elected. and for those you have fallen for her spiel, you deserve no more from a president.

Hillary plagiarized two people in her debate conclusion, John Edwards and Bill Clinton. Never trust a Clinton. See:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAYItnI-lPo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ7Cs3QvT3U

"The puzzler of the night, to me, is why Clinton refused to answer a simple question that she clearly has an answer to: And that is: Is Barack Obama ready to be commander in chief? Clearly -- the answer, for Clinton, is “yes.” It’s her best argument against him. But twice she avoided it and instead recapitulated her own resume."

For those of you claiming this is a typo and should have read, "no," you are wrong. What the author is saying is that she has to say "yes." If Sen. Obama wins the nomination, she has to, as a democrat, support him and if she answered "no" Sen. McCain would be looping that soundbite everywhere saying, "Even Hillary doesn't think he's ready."

If she answers "yes," and Sen. Obama wins the nomination, she hasn't hurt his chances at election in November and has shown support for a fellow democrat.

If she answers, "yes," and Sen. Clinton wins the nomination, no harm no foul.

This is why the author claims her answer has to be "yes."

Obama and Clinton are both frighteningly serious about abandoning the people of Iraq and of giving in to Islamofascists.

They ought to be frightening every American into waking up.

We need a president who releases consistent positive vibes and i think that what I always get from Obama. It does not matter what state he is in, you get the right energy and synergy from him. Hillary Clinton is not the same way; her attitude tells you who she is. I must give her credit as she acted so well tonight at the end of the debate. All she had to do was act. However, that is not her true nature because what she acted during the debate won’t last. Her true color is what we see over time. So let no American be deceived by her words. Her etheric body (where the real you resides) speaks for itself. I think for Hillary Clinton it all about power and fame. But Obama is very real.

We need a president who releases consistent positive vibes and i think that what I always get from Obama. It does not matter what state he is in, you get the right energy and synergy from him. Hillary Clinton is not the same way; her attitude tells you who she is. I must give her credit as she acted so well tonight at the end of the debate. All she had to do was act. However, that is not her true nature because what she acted during the debate won’t last. Her true color is what we see over time. So let no American be deceived by her words. Her etheric body (where the real you resides) speaks for itself. I think for Hillary Clinton it all about power and fame. But Obama is very real.

Before you drink the Obama Kool-Aid, you might want to search "Larry Sinclair" on youtube. He's scheduled to take a polygraph in 2 days to substantiate his allegations.

Clinton took/lifted John Edwards' words in her last response in the debate tonight!

Here is the video of both of them saying the same thing side by side:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zAYItnI-lPo

I hope the news media is going to report on this.

No one has commented her about the fact that the supposed plagiarism became an issue only because the Clintonistas manipulated the media into looking at clips on youtube, and then lied about this involvement. When Clinton offered her slimy insinuation that Obabma's ethical credibility had been called into question by his "plagiarism," Obama should have pounced. Which is the more obvious evidence of deep ethical failure: using (with permission) somone else's words in a speech, or lying about your role in advancing your own interests by trying to destroy how the moral character of your opponent is perceived? Has she no sense of shame? (Note: these last words were plagiarized from the McCarthy hearing back in the 1950's.)

I truly like both candidates. Something we need to understand however is that having a president is not like having a dictator, they don't make all their decisions into law at the snap of a finger.

I think Obama has a much better opportunity (and is already proving it) at uniting Congress and getting bills passed. Big issues such as healthcare and immigration are going to be fiercely debated, and I don't see Hillary being able to unite the country behind her quite the way Obama can and has been showing.

Regardless I think they're both good candidates and I will be voting for whoever wins the nomination, but I feel Obama is the stronger candidate. Oh, and Hillary supporters drive me nuts. It's funny to listen to people spew out arguments accusing Obama of no substance. These people are obviously not educated enough to come up with reasonable arguments of their own, instead relying on the Clinton campaign to make their arguments for them.

It's no wonder why Clinton relies on the uneducated voter...

Obama es el único candidato que será responsable con la gente, con la mayoría. Él busca unir al pueblo estadounidense e involucrarlos en las decisiones políticas. Hilary Clinton solo busca el beneficio personal e ignoraría a la gente (sobretodo a los hispanos) una vez que obtenga lo que quieren.

Es por ello que invito a todos los hispanos --que puedan votar-- a que voten por Obama. Él es el cambio que todos hemos estado esperando. No dejen pasar esta oportunidad y después se arrepientan.

Todos los hispanos unidos a favor de Obama! Recuerden que pueden votar desde hoy mismo en http://www.rockthevote.com/rtv_espanol.php

A strange phenomenon. It seems that a bulk of the political commentators have taken the last statement by Clinton as a powerful and uplifting moment for her in the debate. I think the bulk of "normal folk" that I have talked with disregarded her words, drawing a parallel between that moment and her words made before the New Hampshire primary. Is it a coincidence that the two moments in her campaign where she reveals her emotional side come at a time where her campaign is in desperation? It was anything but genuine.

And lastly, giving her credit for the standing ovation, when in fact she was making the final statement of the entire debate, is simply ludicrous.

Obama es el único candidato que será responsable con la gente, con la mayoría. Él busca unir al pueblo estadounidense e involucrarlos en las decisiones políticas. Hilary Clinton solo busca el beneficio personal e ignoraría a la gente (sobretodo a los hispanos) una vez que obtenga lo que quieren.

Es por ello que invito a todos los hispanos --que puedan votar-- a que voten por Obama. Él es el cambio que todos hemos estado esperando. No dejen pasar esta oportunidad y después se arrepientan.

Todos los hispanos unidos a favor de Obama! Recuerden que pueden votar desde hoy mismo en http://www.rockthevote.com/rtv_espanol.php

"I think Obama has a much better opportunity (and is already proving it) at uniting Congress and getting bills passed." (Josh)

Obama has been in Congress for more than 2 years now and has not authored one bill that anyone can remember. Even his supporters can't name one Senate accomplishment. Watch the video of MSNBC's Chris Mathews quizzing one of Obama's supporters, a TX state senator. It is embarrassing. Focus group after focus group of Obama supporters are equally tight lipped when asked this question.

At least Hillary was able to tick off several occasions tonight where she was able to reach across the aisle to get something done.

What makes everyone believe that Obama can unite the country? Because he's black? Because he's an eloquent speaker? As Walter Mondale famously said of Gary Hart, "Where's the beef?"

agatha - take some happy pills.

After reading some of the post here and on other sites, it is very obvious that still too many White Americans are driven by racial fear, anger and hatred. Some of the "so-called" rationale or reasons for not voting for Senator Obama are not rational or reasoned at all. They are an emotional reaction to seeing a Black American in a leadership capacity.
The immediate response is attack and discredit. This is not thoughtful and certainly not accepting. Mr. Obama is as intelligent, if not more so, as Mrs. Clinton or Mr. McCain. He has shown a capacity for managing a national organization , raising funds, supervisng staff and planning and developing strategy to a much greater degree than Mrs. Clinton or any of the other Democratic and Republican candidates. He has beaten her fair, square and by the rules. It's unfortunate that so many still can't give the man his due. He has demonstrated his acumen and abilty, over and over again.
I was not initially an Obama supporter. However, after watching him in debate, watching his organization as it moved from state to state demonstrate its effectiveness in winning more and more support from people of every persuasion , I, a fifty year-old Blackman began to have the "audacity of hope" again. Hope that perhaps I could be as American as others born in this country who happen to be White. You see, I have been passed over, left out, excluded and punished because I was not born into the priviledge of White skin. But to see Barak Obama gain the support and acceptance of many young and old White Americans makes me want to "really believe" and feel "really proud" to be an American because maybe this time I am witnessing that the promise of this country belongs to me also, not because I am good at at helping Whites to feel comfortable in my presence or because I have gained acceptance due to a special talent or gift,but because I too am an "American." Nothing more, nothing less.
So, when I read the mean spirited, baseless attacks on Mr. Obama's character, intelligence, record of service, ability and intentions. I try hard to ignore them and believe that today, unlike the past, these people are in the minority; these voices represent the few. I want to believe that most of America really does want to move on from the politics of hate, move on from name calling, race baiting, judgement and condemnation. I trully believe that we have a real opportunity, right now, at this moment to save our country, to become one, to stand for change and usher in a new America. I believe that Barak Obama is not that change, but merely an agent or representative of all of our desires for something better. He is simply being used by the powers greater than ourselves to show us our potential. The time for divide and division are over. The truth is that we will realize this or we will one day soon balkanize and turn on one another. This is our chance to secure a peaceful future. It is about us. It is about change.

Both were good. Anybody but McCain.

I think that Clinton performed well. I thought the only bad moment was the Xerox remark and that was simply weak. But I don't think that either won.

I think that she was very gracious in her closing remarks and that gave me some faith that she is not as mean as many portray her to be. However, I do not think that she is strong enough in her opposition to the war and has supported it for much longer than she should have.

As such, I am voting for Obama.

There are clear differences between Obama and McCain.

If you want 100 years of occupation then vote for McCain. If you want out in 2009 then vote for Obama.

If you want the Bush economic plan then vote for McCain. If you want a plan that is geared towards the middle class and the "green economy" then vote for Obama.

If you want to the continued demise of the US by more tough guy attitudes vote for McCain.
If you want diplomacy then vote for Obama.

The choice is clear. I will vote for Obama. You do as you please. If you need to resort to bigotry to win the election, then bring on the hate and we shall see if this will work. I predict not. I predict that Obama will win in 2008.

I thought Senator Clinton came out strong in the beginning, but lost her momentum halfway into it. She underestimated Obama's ability to steal the audience, as some of his rebuttals were spot-on and made a clown out of her. She dug a giant hole for herself with her "xerox" comment, and failed to drive the nail on the coffin when she had the opportunity (Obama's capabilities as Commander-In-Chief). Overall, Clinton at best tied with Obama tonight, which unfortunately for her was just not good enough.

We have not one but two reallygood candidates, and we should all feel proud. The sarcasm and contempt heaped upon one or the other of them here makes me cringe. As for Obama's middle name printed in all caps as posted by Janine as if it is something he should be ashamed of, that is simple bigotry, nothing more. Shame on you!

Dear Paul,

Hillary has been boasting about 35 years of "change". Serving as a corporate lawyer (for Wal-mart, of all places!) and being first lady does not exactly count as being active in politics.

She has been a senator for eight years. Obama has been a senator for four. Obama has passed more bills in the Senate than Hillary. Do the research, and do the math.

I am 24, I hate politics, what I hate more is what the republicans have done to the Country I call home, I have spent months overseas and heard the terrible things other people say about us Americans. I want to be proud of my heritage, I want to know that we have leader that unites all of us for the better good of tomorrow. I have always liked the Clintons I was merely a kid when Mr. Clinton was in office and I remember the scandal that plagued the television that raised me, but what they left out was all the great things he did for this country, I am positive HRC would do a great job with all of her ties to special interest groups and her beloved relationship with Rupert Murdoch, however this is not about continuing the same game that has been played for the past fifty years, last time I checked this was about a nation in need of change, a nation that needs someone to restore the vision of USA as a major respected player in world politics, we need Obama to lead us to peace and out of the ring of Laughter.

I am positive someone will have a snide remark for my comment, all I can say there are million more kids just like me and I can guarantee we are tired of Washington taking away our civil liberties, you just wait… one day it will be my generation that runs this Country.

Christopher, San Diego, CA

Genuine plagiarized lines from Hillary! Sigh.

http://wonkette.com/359517/hillary-plagiarizes-john-edwards-bill-clinton

Concerning "inclusion" - what about those of us who have worked just as hard as you for our livelihood, and now we are paying more than 50% of the taxes in this country - will we be INCLUDED in the decision making process of just how much more of OUR money the government can TAKE? Dems seem happy to INCLUDE our tax dollars into their plans...but they EXCLUDE us from having anything to do with those plans! We volunteer at homeless shelters, make generous donations to charities, support our dependents and our employees, attend church, support our local schools, keep our community clean, and work 14 hour days - we are Republicans - we simply don't have the time to EXCLUDE anyone -because we are too busy trying to live a RESPONSIBLE AMERICAN DREAM! When will Democrats stop trying to punish us for being successful? Republicans are NOT the enemy....please wake up America!

I've watched a lot of the analysis following the debate and I reacted very differently to the final moments than most of the pundits and analysts. I thought Hillary was pandering, using wounded soldiers, taking her final comments from those made by John Edwards at one of the earlier debates and from her husband. It all sounded very familiar and not genuine... and I thought the standing ovation was for both candidates because they knew that was the last answer and end of the debate.

I thought Barack won the debate. Hillary seemed wistful, almost like she does understand how tough the outlook really is for her campaign. Actually, I don't think either of them felt very well.

I'm leaning toward Barack at this point. And the tricks and spin of Hillary's campaign is only pushing me further away from her.

To Ellen Jordan- the Latina (but you wrote Latino...?) living in Plano TX--- the first bit of your post is well-crafted: simplified declarative sentences, incorrect usage, a basic series of arguments that might possibly be made by an nascent ESL speaker. Then, suddenly, the words: 'acolytes', 'generalities', 'jargon'? Loco. Perhaps you've clicked your heels and transformed into a Clinton surrogate?

I hope everyone will consider how damning these sketchy "Latino" posts-- suggesting Clinton momentum-- appear to be.

Ellen, if your are genuine and suddenly experienced a grammatical leap of sophistication mid-post, or had help from a pal, then my apologies.

Hillary is absolutely right. Obama is a xerox copy. Oh, he's more than that. Obama is a slumlord attorney with only 2 years experience and a not present voting record. Oh yes, and he waited until last year to pay over $300 in old college parking tickets - tickets earned from being lazy and always late to class - so he parked in illegal zones. Obama's a loser, plagiarizer, and an empty suit. I support Clinton's campaign.

Josh, I find it odd that given a further opportunity to name ONE bill Obama has authored, even you failed to do so. 'Nuff said.

Also, Obama was sworn in as Senator in January 2005. That would be THREE years, not FOUR. I'll trust MY math, thank you very much.

For the record, I don't care for either Hillary or Obama. I was just stating my opinion. John McCain has more integrity in his pinky finger than either of them. He is the only one who has bothered to try to work across the aisle to get things done. Obama has been named the "most liberal" Senator, according to his voting record. He toes the party line 100% of the time. Some uniter.

Next time, do YOUR research. If the Larry Sinclair story has any truth to it whatsoever, and Obama has used cocaine as recently as 1999 when he was an IL state legislator, he is done. Even if true, you know the left-wing MSM will do their best to cover it up...if the NYT sham job on McCain today is any indication of "responsible journalism."

"and Obama NOT voting for war is turning out to be RIGHT today"

Oh gee, I am soooo tired of hearing this. For once and for all, Obama did NOT "not vote" for the war.

Same as all state legislators. He didn't vote yes OR no because he wasn't in the Senate. He didn't have to make that call and go on the record with it. He has said more than once he didn't know what he would have done had he been in the Senate (see New Yorker Magazine, November 2006). Now, of course, he makes it sound like he was prescient somehow. His "judgment" was better than all the many smart, thoughtful, liberal, Democratic Senators who voted in favor of authorization. But. He. Wasn't. Even. There.

Great observation about Ellen! And as for the guy who linked to this article... http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/02/obama-actually.html

thanks. yes. obama has plenty of substance.

I am an avid Clinton supporter. I am also tired of Obama's tired rhetoric, plagiarized speeches and his attempts at being the new messiah with speech words like, "join the fold" and "join the movement"...yuck! What the voting community does not realize (and I personally know John McCain - actually a great guy - I just like Hillary better)...Mighty Marine McCain will tear the flesh off Obama and pick at his bones when it comes down to a final debate. Meanwhile, I will pop some corn and sit back and enjoy the show. Knowing both, Hillary will stand up to him much better. You all just don't realize it. Hillary is the REAL HOPE!

I can't believe the negativity thats coming from this board on Hillary.Has anyone stopped to think of 09/11,and those people lives that were lost. Yes she made a decision to go into a country,to find the person or persons that destroyed thousands of lives and families in the USA was that wrong. I don't think so. Under the circumstances I probable would have done the same thing, and I don't believe in war.
She stood up tonite, in what needs to be done. Obama once again, ran on her coat tails,just like most of the other debates.
She has class, and the intelligence to be president. Obama, needs other people to do his thinking,and obviously in my eyes not presidential material.

DH said: "...The country was mislead and manipulated by GW into believing that Iraq had something significant to do with what happened 9/11 and that the only solution was to go to war in order to prevent anything more from happening to us..." Not true, he said nothing about 9/11 this was totally separate action because Sadaam supposedly had WMDs. It was a lie and proven so and Barack was one of the few who recognized that this was a diversion.

to Greg G who wrote, "...He's too green to have even been there. But you of the cult of Obama can't seem to get that straight..."
Look up their accomplishments on the library of congress. and you will see the difference in the scope and depth of what they've been able to get passed. or you could just read this: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2/20/201332/807/36/458633
The title is "I refuse to buy in to the Obama hype" I encourage ALL DEMS to read it, Obama supporters and Clinton supporters

Smoking cigarettes is the single most harmful thing a person can do to his body. Obama smokes. He goes to great lengths to hide this. What else is he hiding? He's weak. I will not vote for him...........

Why Hillary continues to allow Barack Obama to say that he was against the war from the beginning and that she was for it, is a mystery.

Where is the evidence that Obama would have been against the war if he'd had enough information to make an informed decision?

Even Obama himself said in 2004 that he doesn't know how he would have voted if he'd been privvy to Senate intelligence reports.

If you don't have the necessary information to make an informed decision on a matter and you make a decision anyway, why should it count as anything but dumb luck if it turns out you are right?

And before anyone says, "Well, Hillary had the information you're talking about and still got the decision wrong" is missing the point. The important question is what decision would Barack have made about Iraq had he the same information that Hillary had at the time?

There is much evidence that if Barack had had the same information that Hillary had and given Barack's voting record in the Senate (lock-step with Hillary on all things Iraq) since he has had access to the same information that she's had, he would have voted EXACTLY the same way that she voted.

Why this has never been pointed out even in one debate is a complete mystery.

Does anybody really believe that Clinton's last remarks weren't rehearsed? The catch in the voice that came close to tears (again). It insults my intelligence and demeans all women that she pulls the emotional ploy every time she needs a win. So contrived!

Clinton: "I" "I" "I" "I" "I" "I" "I" "I" "I" "I"

You guys are stupid. So hillary copied Bill AND john edwards? Yea right! Stop trying to make up for obama's lack of words.

Yo... Phoenix Opinion... Mighty Marine McCain was in the friggin Navy!

Hola. My names is Miguel Rodriguez. My English has problems but I want to right anyways. Please forgive me. I think Hilary Clinton did a nice job on the tv. She was very smart. I think Obama did good. But Hilary did more good. I think Hilary does like Latinos and she will help Latinos. She has much experience. More than the people I know. She will be a good president. She will be good for the Latinos in this great country. She will continue the American dream.

Furthermore, her erudition is inimitable. She is second to none. It behooves us to vote for her. I, Miguel Rodriguez, support her cardinal tenets: love for America, love for the American people, and love for humanity. Senator Obama is merely a child next to Hillary. His inferiority as a candidate is glaring. We musn't allow someone so immature to be our president.

Por fin, I like to say thanks you to the people of America. You are my people. I am America two. I also am America. Remember that HIlary good. She have experience. She got solutions. She ready on first day. Adios y gracis.

DO YOUR HOMEWORK PEOPLE. stop with this futile bickering about nonsense. WHO CARES about Hillary's last line, who cares that Barack smokes - everyone knows that. All I care about is what is their history. What bills have they sponsored and what have they been able to get through or passed. That shows where their priorities are and what leadership skills and judgment they have.
btw. Clinton has co-sponsored most of Barack's bills and vice versa!!!
also look at integrity and character. for all of you youngins you might have to do a little research to see who Bill and Hillary clinton are -- DO IT. and do the same for Barack. Stop with the emotional BS this is OUR COUNTRY not a popularity contest. Don't believe hillary is experienced just because she says so! prove it! based on what? Don't believe barack can bring people together just because he says it -- show the proof! Whether or not someone borrows someone else's rhetoric (which obviously both of them have done)does not determine how effective or competent they will be. And please Rep. don't even bring up McCain (let's first see how this conflict of int. thing plays out) Also Rep. get off your high rich horse and remember, without the middle class buying all the crap that you claim to produce you wouldn't have a job so you better start eliminating the hemoraging of the middle class before we're a third world country

As an icon and a CULT FIGURE, what about George Bush? How many people have followed him around blindly, deafly and dumbly for the last eight years, until, finally, some 65% of Americans have to admit he flunks the test? He's nearly destroyed the country and brought US morale and the economy, not to mention our image in the World, to all-time lows which will take years, many years, to resolve. Obama's message may be vague for some, but it is clearly positive. I don't agree with the Barack fanatics in that he is capable of turning water into wine, but at least we can rest assured that he won't be turning anything into blood.

The ending is what nails it. As she had done in previous debates, Hillary Clinton ended and carried the debate. It was obviously exasperating, though, for her to keep pointing out differences between her and Obama, since Obama keeps aligning his campaign with Hillary's platform/plans/ideas, and those of other people's philosophies and causes (think of MLK, JFK, Kennedys always being dragged into his speeches and attacks vs. Clinton, which have been played up and spun by the media). In this debate, Campbell and John King, or CNN as a whole and as always, gave Obama more and more and more and more time and opportunity to talk his rhetoric away. Wolf Blitzer and Anderson Cooper could at least feign objectivity

I think Hillary Clinton has done an excellent job. She is experienced, qualified, and highly intelligent. I hope the American people will stand with Hillary. She stands for America. You won't hear any vague sloganeering from her supporters. Hillary Clinton loves America and the American people, and she will be ready on day one. Those who say otherwise are suspect. The American people need a leader now. Furthermore, Senator Obama should not forget that Hillary Clinton helped him get into office. Now he thinks he can spit in her face like this. Talk about a lack of gratitude!

A summary of some of Obama's legislative accomplishments:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2/21/164117/783/290/461422

Margie, are you saying that Sen. Obama should drop out of the race because she campaigned for him? And would about all of the people he campaigned for? Should they not be allowed to run as well because they "owe" him?

Margie, are you saying that Sen. Obama should drop out of the race because she campaigned for him? And what about all of the people he campaigned for? Should they not be allowed to run as well because they "owe" him?

I am amazed that Obama is doing as well as he is doing!Irreguardless about John Mccains personal life and hell I do not even know the guy I just am so sick of the republicans and the mischeif of the Bush administration ref: to Senator Rove, Mark Foleys' problems and Senator Libby everything is a accusation, mischief and debate, and as far as Hillary she did great, now if she could get her voice two octives lower!

phil
Syracuse, NY

The hatred for Obama by Hillary supporters and the hatred for Hillary by Obama supporters is extremely disturbing. And it seems to spew from every blog on the internet. I thought the debate tonight was more than civil. It's clear to me that Hillary doesn't hate Obama and Obama doesn't hate Hillary. So why are their supporters so filled with hate? I think
we, as Americans, need to "tone down the rhetoric" as Obama suggested. Maybe then we really can all come together to make this country work.

I'm Independent. In fact Canadian. I teach Social Studies. I have been supporting Obama, but I must tell you that if I were adjudicating this Texas Debate, I'd have given the victory to Hillary. She was the best I've ever seen her. Obama looked like he had a cold. He was languishing. But it was Hillary's night - energy, genuine smiles and warmth. I believe she is a decent person, as Carl Bernstein reveals in his book. I think she is better than the tactics of Bill, Howard Wolfson, and Mark Penn. They have advised her poorly from the beginning of the primaries and caucuses until now. She should have been showing this warm glowing person, and show why people should vote for her. Her dreams. Her creativity. That opportunity has well nigh been squandered by negative, Rove-light tactics and fibs, that has only made her seem worse than she really is - that's the irony....thinking to make a score by painting your opponent in a poor light, they failed to identify the real Hillary, her goodness, and why we should be attracted to her.

>>

Wrong. Hilary missed the chance of a lifetime. She should have said, with a grin, "Well, I can tell you that I think Barack would make a GREAT vice president. And in 8 years after serving in my adminisration, he'll make a GREAT commander in chief."

This would turn around her campaign instantly. Like the tear, she'd get a groundswell of sympathetic votes as people think of this as her last chance for the presidency. Folks would have no problem putting off Obama for 8 years if he was her VP, and therefore, still in the game. Obviously, with her age, it wouldn't work the other way. Plus, she could play on the invincible ticket, a "sure thing" to combat the Republican juggernaut that is sure to come. Finally, Obama would be in a difficult position because he couldn't return the favor (age disparity), nor could he reject the offer as it would seem somewhat cruel and rather arrogant.

This was the kind of shock their campaign needed, and, once again, she missed the boat.

**Is Barack Obama ready to be commander in chief? Clearly -- the answer, for Clinton, is “yes.” It’s her best argument against him.**

Wrong. Hilary missed the chance of a lifetime. She should have said, with a grin, "Well, I can tell you that I think Barack would make a GREAT vice president. And in 8 years after serving in my adminisration, he'll make a GREAT commander in chief."

This would turn around her campaign instantly. Like the tear, she'd get a groundswell of sympathetic votes as people think of this as her last chance for the presidency. Folks would have no problem putting off Obama for 8 years if he was her VP, and therefore, still in the game. Obviously, with her age, it wouldn't work the other way. Plus, she could play on the invincible ticket, a "sure thing" to combat the Republican juggernaut that is sure to come. Finally, Obama would be in a difficult position because he couldn't return the favor (age disparity), nor could he reject the offer as it would seem somewhat cruel and rather arrogant.

This was the kind of shock their campaign needed, and she missed the boat.

Barack Obama was absolutely presidential in this debate, and impressed me with the very thing, that his opponent has attacked him for lacking, substance! He clarified various issues with detail that gave me confidence to trust his judgment in all presidential decisions.
The idea that Hillary would bring up plagiarism after feeding her complaint to the press, and after the media carried it wide and long, again defines her lack of integrity. The charge is absolutely petty. She has used Obama's signature "fired up and ready to go" "lets go change the world," "yes we can" to name a few examples of her own plagiarism, and tonight she received a standing ovation for a word for word repeat of rhetoric used by John Edwards, originally spoken years ago by Bill Clinton.

HILLARY CLINTON is a Republican, and a to-the-manner-born conservative, extreme conservative, at heart. Probably even more so than JOHN(let´s kick some Irani butt, too)MCCAIN. Yikes!

What would Hillary ever know about the people for whom life is a grueling struggle? She doesn´t come off as a warm, caring person who feels for the plight of others, so what´s this with all the Madonna-figure posing and the Nurturing I-Feel-for-All-People fanfare and rhetoric? She is a FARSE. Why would anyone find her inspiring to listen to or a reference to be followed?

The Clintons are OPPORTUNISTS, well-rehearsed MANIPULATORS, and MULTI-MILLIONAIRES. They know their lines, will stop at nothing, SAY ANYTHING, to gain and maintain power... Bill Clinton "smoked" pot, but he didn´t "inhale"? Good Lord! And people accept that?!!! I can´t extricate the husband from the wife. They are a TWO-HEADED MONSTER.

What she should have done way-back-when was throw him out on his lying, facetious butt. She gets no respect from me, whatsoever, not even as a WOMAN. It takes one to know one, and I don´t even feel a gender-identification bond.

HRC is a cold, wombless bitch. Martin Luther King rolls over in his grave when he hears her say that, because of him, she became a DEMOCRAT. Yea, right. Everyday in front of millions, until she gets back to the mansion and takes off the mask.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ7Cs3QvT3U


Hillary Channelling Bill

LMAO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ7Cs3QvT3U


Hillary Channelling Bill

LMAO

I saw the big difference between Obama's "words" campaign and Clinton's "experiences" tonight. Words need quite a long time to be realized. Obama's talent waits to be seen in the future. But "experiences" can speak for themselves RIGHT NOW. American desperately needs a "right now" ready president who was long time tested, whose lenghty working records available to the public. Clinton is the ONE who I feel secured and comfotable to lead my country. Foreign policy is one of my top concerns. I trust Clinton's ability to deal with tough world leaders because she has the experience to deal with 80 countries in the past. Amazing record!

I saw the big difference between Obama's "words" campaign and Clinton's "experiences" tonight. Words need quite a long time to be realized. Obama's talent waits to be seen in the future. But "experiences" can speak for themselves RIGHT NOW. American desperately needs a "right now" ready president who was long time tested, whose lenghty working records available to the public. Clinton is the ONE who I feel secured and comfotable to lead my country. Foreign policy is one of my top concerns. I trust Clinton's ability to deal with tough world leaders because she has the experience to deal with 80 countries in the past. Amazing record!

DH...

IT'S SUCH A BORE TO HEAR THAT LINE ABOUT HOW THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION TRICKED EVERYONE INTO THE IRAQ WAR. IT'S JUST NOT SO, MANY OTHER SENATORS HAD THE SENSE TO KNOW THAT IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11, AND VOTED AGAINST GIVING HIM WAR POWER.

DISPITE THE PROPAGANDA, SO DID ALMOST HALF THE COUNTRY. YOU SEE, WE NEVER FELL FOR THE "MUSHROOM CLOUD" BIT...AND WERE DEVASTATED BY THE TOTAL LACK OF LOGIC AND COMMON SENSE SURROUNDING US...WATCHING OUR GOOD YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN MARCH OFF TO DISTROY A COUNTRY IN THE NAME OF FREEDOM AND KNOWING THAT SO MANY OF THEM WERE GOING TO BE KILLED OR WORSE...IT JUST SUCKED BEING TOTALLY AWARE OF ALL THIS 5 YEARS AGO... AND HERE WE ARE TODAY WITH THE, YOU GOT IT... QUAGMIRE

I DONT THINK HILLARY BELEIVED IT EITHER. SHE VOTED FOR IT BECAUSE WELL, SHE'S A "NEW WORLD ORDER, INTERNATIONALIST-IMPERIALISTIC HAWK, AND SHE WAS LOOKING TOWARDS THE 2008 PRESIDENTAL CAMPAIGN AND WANTED TO LOOK "STRONG" ON TERRORISM... (THINKING THE PUBLIC WOULD NEVER WAKE UP TO THE PROPAGANDA BS.)

IF I AM WRONG AND SHE DID BELEIVE THE PROPAGANDA, WELL THEN, SHE DOESNT DESERVE THE PRESIDENCY.

ONE MORE THING.

YOU NOTICED WHEN ASKED ABOUT CUBA CLINTON SAID IN SO MANY WORDS THAT CUBA WOULD HAVE TO DO A BUNCH OF STUFF BEFORE SHE TALKED TO THEM? WELL GUESS WHAT ALL YOU "FORIEGN POLICY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO ME"...

THATS EXACTLY GEORGE BUSH'S POLICY! IT'S HIS
PRE-CONDITIONS POLICY. THAT'S RIGHT, WE WONT TALK TO YOU UNLESS YOU DO A, B, OR C FIRST, "BECAUSE I GOT THE GUNS MTHR FKR".

THAT IS PRECISELY THE MAIN AREA OF OUR FORIEGN POLICY THAT MUST BE CHANGED!

OBAMA ON THE OTHER HAND, SAYS WE NEED TO HAVE A WELL THOUGHT OUT A G E N D A TO BRING TO THE TABLE WITH OUR FOES...AND TALK ABOUT THE AGENDA. WHICH IS HOW ONE MAKES HEADWAY TOWARDS RESPECT (BOTH WAYS) AND A WORKING RELATIONSHIP.

ARE YOU "FOR HILLARY" PEOPLE REALLY PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION?

This election isn’t about middle names or your kindergarten papers, or whose house you have visited; it’s about leadership in a transitional time. Voters around the country are proving it so. It’s interesting that the challenge for Sen. Obama is to deliver on that quality that George W. Bush promised, leadership. Also It is really surprising to see the heat that Obama still takes saying he would go after bin Laden inside of Pakistan, even if Musharraf’s government didn’t give him permission. He’s the only candidate that was against the war from the start (partially because he understood that it took our focus off of Al-Qaeda) that’s why I say

IF YOU WANT TO CATCH OSAMA YOU’VE GOTTA VOTE OBAMA.

Well, that’s what my bumper sticker says. If you would like one just write me voteobama2008@hotmail.com

This election isn’t about middle names or your kindergarten papers, or whose house you have visited; it’s about leadership in a transitional time. Voters around the country are proving it so. It’s interesting that the challenge for Sen. Obama is to deliver on that quality that George W. Bush promised, leadership. Also It is really surprising to see the heat that Obama still takes saying he would go after bin Laden inside of Pakistan, even if Musharraf’s government didn’t give him permission. He’s the only candidate that was against the war from the start (partially because he understood that it took our focus off of Al-Qaeda) that’s why I say

IF YOU WANT TO CATCH OSAMA YOU’VE GOTTA VOTE OBAMA.

Well, that’s what my bumper sticker says. If you would like one just write me voteobama2008@hotmail.com

Hillary was OUTSTANDING and once again Obama fumblies his words when they are not written for him. OBAMA THE CHANGE AGENT -CNN — Last night, Obama supporter Texas State Senator Kirk Watson was asked to name Obama's legislative accomplishments. He failed to name a single one. Heres a few
Obama said he goofed on votes angered fellow Democrats in the Senate when he voted to strip millions of dollars from a child welfare office on Chicago's West Side. But Obama had a ready explanation: He goofed!
Also announced he had fumbled an election-reform vote the day before, on a measure that passed 51 to 6. The next day, he acknowledged voting "present" on a key telecommunications vote. He stood on March 11, 1999, to take back his vote against legislation to end good-behavior credits for certain felons in county jails. "I pressed the wrong button on that," he said. Obama was the lone dissenter on Feb. 24, 2000, against 57 yeas for a ban on human cloning. "I pressed the wrong button by accident," he said.

But two of Obama's bumbles came on more-sensitive topics, he backed legislation to permit riverboat casinos to operate even when the boats were dockside.

The measure, pushed by the gambling industry and fought by church groups whose support Obama was seeking, passed with two "yeas" to spare -- including Obama's. Moments after its passage he rose to say, explaining that he had mistakenly voted for it.

Obama would later develop a reputation as a critic of the gambling industry, and he voted against a similar measure two years later. But he was clearly confused about how to handle the issue at the time of his first vote, telling a church group that he was "undecided" about whether he backed an expansion of riverboat gambling. And, months earlier, he had voted in favor of a version of the bill.

Obama's vote sparked a confrontation after he joined Republicans to block Democrats trying to override a veto by GOP Gov. George Ryan of a $2-million allotment for the west Chicago child welfare office. being responsible," said Sen. Rickey Hendon, accusing Obama of voting to close the child welfare office.Obama replied "I understand Sen. Hendon's anger, I was not aware that I had voted no on that piece of legislation.

He voted against requiring medical care for aborted fetuses who survive. Abortion opponents see Obama's vote on medical care for aborted fetuses as a refusal to protect the helpless. Some have even accused him of supporting infanticide

Dems to Hillary: We're just not that into you.

When I watched the last remarks of Hillary and how Obama moved fast to shake her hand as she said she is honoured... I guess Obama might vote for Hillary. She's a real person and i think she would make a great President

The Obama cult is achieving exactly what he hopes it will achieve: Listen to my arrogant yet eloquent diatribes and don't dare ask me about details since I have none to offer. I'm the most qualifed person ever and shame on you for suggesting otherwise. I am going to end this war whatever the consequence and not think through my wreckless comments about foreign policy. I will talk with any head of state no matter the risk to US interests. I have 2o years of organizing communities so I am the ONLY person fit to be President. God help us all. Hope is not a strategy. Hillary missed several opportunties to unmask this joker last night. I'm supporting the most qualified person to be President in the race: John McCain...a man of real service, honor, dignity and action.
The democrats are doomed in November.

Supporting Obama does not mean that one has to hate Hillary. The extent of the hate that Obama supporters have for HRC disgusts me. That is why me, a lifelong democrat, will vote for McCain if Obama is he nominee. Several of my friends are doing the same.

There is definitely something a bit bizarre about the statements by supposedly Latino posters... not only the Ellen Jordan post, but also by "Miguel Rodriguez" who first apologizes that "My English has problems but I want to right anyways...But Hilary did more good."

Then the second paragraph comes along with complex sentence structure and using words like "erudition...inimitable...behooves...cardinal tenets...inferiority is glaring." Come on now, anyone who can put words like that together doesn't have problems with "righting" English!

What Clinton operative is posting this stuff? How stupid do these Clinton "plants" think we are? And how many examples of "silly season" do we need, or can we stomach?

At least Richard Padilla (an Obama supporter) used his primary language beautifully when posting on here... "No dejen pasar esta oportunidad y después se arrepientan." I wholeheartedly agree with Mr. Padilla: "Let's not let this opportunity (of voting for Obama) pass us by, and then repent afterwards."

Amen!

I am amazed at the things people will say. The popular vote divides these two candidates by less than 100,000 people. So about half the democratic party is into Hillary.
If Hillary was really the bad person Obama supporters make her to be that why didn't she just go ahead and say Obama wasn't ready to be president? If she's so calculating and such a liar? There is only one answer to that question. She has no intention of damaging the party's chances in the general election by saying something that can be used against Obama if he is the nominee. Sorry, Obama supporters, you don't get to call her a liar and then say she just couldn't bring herself to lie about Obama's readiness. The only responsible way to answer the question was the way the way she did, no matter what she really thinks of his readiness. She could have given any answer she wanted, but she chose the best answer for the democratic party.

Obama is winning votes by playing on the American people's tendency to blame politicians for everything even though most elected officials are actually decent people who believe in what they are doing. (whether I agree with what they are doing or not.) I think that is one sad sham. Americans are completely divided-- half the country vote conservative, the other half vote liberal-- they elect people who don't agree with each other, and then they gripe that nothing gets done and have the nerve to be shocked by this lack of sweeping change. Then they whine, oh, politicians are all evil, bad people. No, they're not. HALF THE PEOPLE IN AMERICA DON'T AGREE WITH YOU. What do you expect?

Obama is no different from any other elected official, including Hillary. They are both good people, with good hearts who want to do what they think is right. But if you chose Obama because you think he will magically change the world, you have set yourself up for big disappointment. Once I tuned out everyone's rhetoric, it came down to who I think will do the best job working with what they have. I chose Hillary.

I am amazed at the things people will say. The popular vote divides these two candidates by less than 100,000 people. So about half the democratic party is into Hillary.
If Hillary was really the bad person Obama supporters make her to be that why didn't she just go ahead and say Obama wasn't ready to be president? If she's so calculating and such a liar? There is only one answer to that question. She has no intention of damaging the party's chances in the general election by saying something that can be used against Obama if he is the nominee. Sorry, Obama supporters, you don't get to call her a liar and then say she just couldn't bring herself to lie about Obama's readiness. The only responsible way to answer the question was the way the way she did, no matter what she really thinks of his readiness. She could have given any answer she wanted, but she chose the best answer for the democratic party.

Obama is winning votes by playing on the American people's tendency to blame politicians for everything even though most elected officials are actually decent people who believe in what they are doing. (whether I agree with what they are doing or not.) I think that is one sad sham. Americans are completely divided-- half the country vote conservative, the other half vote liberal-- they elect people who don't agree with each other, and then they gripe that nothing gets done and have the nerve to be shocked by this lack of sweeping change. Then they whine, oh, politicians are all evil, bad people. No, they're not. HALF THE PEOPLE IN AMERICA DON'T AGREE WITH YOU. What do you expect?

Obama is no different from any other elected official, including Hillary. They are both good people, with good hearts who want to do what they think is right. But if you chose Obama because you think he will magically change the world, you have set yourself up for big disappointment. Once I tuned out everyone's rhetoric, it came down to who I think will do the best job working with what they have. I chose Hillary.

I am amazed at the things people will say. The popular vote divides these two candidates by less than 100,000 people. So about half the democratic party is into Hillary.
If Hillary was really the bad person Obama supporters make her to be that why didn't she just go ahead and say Obama wasn't ready to be president? If she's so calculating and such a liar? There is only one answer to that question. She has no intention of damaging the party's chances in the general election by saying something that can be used against Obama if he is the nominee. Sorry, Obama supporters, you don't get to call her a liar and then say she just couldn't bring herself to lie about Obama's readiness. The only responsible way to answer the question was the way the way she did, no matter what she really thinks of his readiness. She could have given any answer she wanted, but she chose the best answer for the democratic party.

Obama is winning votes by playing on the American people's tendency to blame politicians for everything even though most elected officials are actually decent people who believe in what they are doing. (whether I agree with what they are doing or not.) I think that is one sad sham. Americans are completely divided-- half the country vote conservative, the other half vote liberal-- they elect people who don't agree with each other, and then they gripe that nothing gets done and have the nerve to be shocked by this lack of sweeping change. Then they whine, oh, politicians are all evil, bad people. No, they're not. HALF THE PEOPLE IN AMERICA DON'T AGREE WITH YOU. What do you expect?

Obama is no different from any other elected official, including Hillary. They are both good people, with good hearts who want to do what they think is right. But if you chose Obama because you think he will magically change the world, you have set yourself up for big disappointment. Once I tuned out everyone's rhetoric, it came down to who I think will do the best job working with what they have. I chose Hillary.

I am amazed at the things people will say. The popular vote divides these two candidates by less than 100,000 people. So about half the democratic party is into Hillary.
If Hillary was really the bad person Obama supporters make her to be that why didn't she just go ahead and say Obama wasn't ready to be president? If she's so calculating and such a liar? There is only one answer to that question. She has no intention of damaging the party's chances in the general election by saying something that can be used against Obama if he is the nominee. Sorry, Obama supporters, you don't get to call her a liar and then say she just couldn't bring herself to lie about Obama's readiness. The only responsible way to answer the question was the way the way she did, no matter what she really thinks of his readiness. She could have given any answer she wanted, but she chose the best answer for the democratic party.

Obama is winning votes by playing on the American people's tendency to blame politicians for everything even though most elected officials are actually decent people who believe in what they are doing. (whether I agree with what they are doing or not.) I think that is one sad sham. Americans are completely divided-- half the country vote conservative, the other half vote liberal-- they elect people who don't agree with each other, and then they gripe that nothing gets done and have the nerve to be shocked by this lack of sweeping change. Then they whine, oh, politicians are all evil, bad people. No, they're not. HALF THE PEOPLE IN AMERICA DON'T AGREE WITH YOU. What do you expect?

Obama is no different from any other elected official, including Hillary. They are both good people, with good hearts who want to do what they think is right. But if you chose Obama because you think he will magically change the world, you have set yourself up for big disappointment. Once I tuned out everyone's rhetoric, it came down to who I think will do the best job working with what they have. I chose Hillary.

I clearly thought Senator Clinton won the debate. She, however, did not get a slam dunk. WHile Senator Obama has improved a great deal, his answers were wordy and you didn't quite know where he was going at times. Mrs. Clinton's answers seemed more straight and to the point. Her Xerox bit was strained and an uncomfortable moment for her. While Obama seemed a bit bored.

Given that Obama will be the nominee (and, most likely, also the next POTUS), his answer to that last question in the long run matters more than Hillary's. And what did Obama say ? When asked what moments in his life indicate he has the leadership skills to become president, he mentioned something about figuring out he should stop making "some bad choices" he made as a youth, and "community organizing in Chicago". Quite frankly, that is pretty poor for a prospective commander-in-chief. Obama's increasingly isolationist views in foreign affairs and his protectionists positions on trade and the economy are also worrisome (to be fair, Hillary's positions on those two topics are almost identical).

Well, I watched the debate with friends and family here in Houston. Most of us (9 people) were undecided and we all ended up filling our early voting ballots at the end. For Hillary Clinton. I know the media keeps insisting that BO is the one, that he is different, etc.. But, we, the people, have to disagree. It is obvious that she has more relevant experience and is ready on day one. Barack? He is a rambling "bamboozler" and by the end of the debate, we were all tired of his blather. Go Hillary 2008!

I got a different feeling from the last comments made by the "Little Evil Lady". I got the feeling of "surrender" or a feeling of "this may be the last time I get to talk to you" or a type of "conceeding" to the fact she is getting her rear end handed to her. Almost like she was kissing Obama's butt at the end. Was this just me getting this vibe???

Senator Clinton should quit the competition, relax and have a cigar.

Senator Clinton should quit the competition, relax and have a cigar.

Hillary should have that cigar, but not one of Bill's.

It doesn't look like anyone has done any research. You're still just talking about the debate as if 1 hours of questions should help you decide something so important - so here I'll help a bit. (this is from the link i listed above) I went to the Library of Congress Website. The FACTS of what each did in the Senate last year sure surprised me. I'm sure they will surprise you, too. Whether you love or hate Hillary, you will be surprised. Whether you think Obama is the second coming of JFK or an inexperienced lightweight, you will surprised. Go check out the Library of Congress Website. After spending some time there, it will be clear that there is really only one candidate would is ready to be the next president, even better than Gore. If you don't want to spend an hour or two doing research, then I'll tell you what I discovered on the jump.

I looked up Obama and looked up Clinton. I looked at the bills that they both authored and introduced. Anyone who has been around politics, and is honest, realizes that there are a lot of reasons why a Senator votes one way or another on bills or misses votes. However an examination of the bills that each of these Senators cared enough about to author and introduce revealed much to me: what they care about, what their priorities are, how they tackle problems. And the list of co-sponsors showed something about how they lead, inspire and work with others. Finally, looking at which bills actually passed is pretty indicative of how effective each would be at getting things done.

Before I get into the nitty gritty, let's all be honest here. It is damn hard to get anything through Congress these days. And Obama and Clinton care about the same issues and have obviously worked together on a lot of legislation, whatever Sen. Clinton's campaign may imply. She is a frequent co-sponsor on his bills, and he on hers. They are both completely competent senators.

I started with Sen. Clinton.

I'm not a Hillary Hater, but I certainly didn't like her much either. I didn't like her DLC history; her votes on Iraq, Iran or the bankruptcy bill; her characterization of the years she spent as First Lady as "executive experience." Hillary Clinton is no Eleanor Roosevelt. Perhaps more like Lady Bird Johnson. Hillary claims to have brought us SCHIP (with a little help from Ted Kennedy). Lady Bird brought us Head Start as well as cleaner, nicer highways. Anyone 40 or older probably remembers when the nation's highways were basically disgusting garbage dumps lined with billboards. But no one thinks Lady Bird should have been president. Might as well argue for Barbara Bush because of her efforts on family literacy, or Nancy Reagan and the War on Drugs.

Hillary Clinton does have a solid record in the Senate, however.

I came away from my research really knowing a lot more about what is important to Hillary in her heart: kids and their well being. My research changed my feeling about her significantly. About 40% of her bills dealt with health care and/or kids. As a mom with small kids, I like her passion for children's issues. But curiously, her big bill to deliver health care to every child, the one she lauds on her website, S.895 : "A bill to amend titles XIX and XXI of the Social Security Act to ensure that every child in the United States has access to affordable, quality health insurance coverage, and for other purposes" had not a single co-sponsor. Not one, according to the Library of Congress. Why is that? Is it a bad bill? Or is she not able to recruit support for her signature issue? Or did she just submit it simply to put in the hopper, so to speak, so she could claim she was working on it. I honestly don't know the answer, but I find it curious and suspicious that not even Ted Kennedy co-sponsored it. Its sister bill in the house, H.R. 1535, introduced by John Dingell has 42 co-sponsors. It's just weird. I honestly don't know what to make of it.

S.895 was major. But most of her other bills are much smaller in scale and scope — more targeted and more careful.

For example, she introduced one bill that offered tax credits for building owners who clean up lead paint. Which is a very good thing. And Obama is a co-sponsor. "S.1793 : A bill to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide a tax credit for property owners who remove lead-based paint hazards."

Obama's anti-lead bill (S. 1306) directed the Consumer Product Safety Commission to classify certain children's products containing lead as banned hazardous substances. He had another bill prohibitting the interstate transport of children's products containing lead. (S.2132) And Hillary co-sponsored each of these.

In other words, they both care about protecting children from lead.

The difference is in the scope and the approach.

Obama's bill shows how he thinks big: do everything we can to make sure that lead-painted Thomas the Tank Engine toys don't get into the hands and mouths of millions of toddlers in this country.

Or Hillary: encourage people by offering tax credits to clean up lead paint in old buildings. People have been talking about lead paint in old buildings hurting kids in living in inner cities, since, well when I was a kid — for decades. If it is still a big problem, is offering tax credits for clean up, i.e. scrape down the walls and repaint, the best way to protect kids from lead?

How many of you parents have lead paint problems? How many have (or had) toxic Thomas the Tank Engine Toys? They are everywhere. The local bookstore and kid's shoe store and the doctor's office and the preschool and the toystore all have train tables. There is nowhere you can go anymore with toddlers that doesn't have a Thomas the Tank Engine train table covered with toxic toys. But that's just my feeling.

Obama's bills risk pissing off the toy industry and the Chinese. Hillary's risks nothing.

A lot of Clinton's health bills focus on children. Or women. She introduced a billl for research in the causes of gestational diabetes, for more pediatric research (S.895) and a rural agriculture bill to get farm-fresh veggies into schools (S.1031).

Her bill dealing with the crisis in foreclosure is actually S.2114 : "A bill to amend the Truth in Lending Act, to provide for enhanced disclosures to consumers and enhanced regulation of mortgage brokers, and for other purposes." Again, no co-sponsors. Obama also introduced a bill in the face of the mortgage foreclosure crisis: S.1222 : "A bill to stop mortgage transactions which operate to promote fraud, risk, abuse, and under-development, and for other purposes." Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 4/25/2007), co-sponsored by Dick Durbin.

In her ads and speeches, Clinton claims that she's fighting to stop foreclosure while implying that Obama is empty rhetoric. Actually, Clinton is calling for "enhanced disclosures to consumers and enhanced regulation", while Obama's bill will "stop mortgage transactions which operate to promote fraud, risk, abuse, and under-development." After looking at the two bills, Obama's appears to be tougher, more directly addressing the problem.

Speaking of Obama, here's a list of some of his proposed legislation.

Four bills on energy including
• S.1151 : A bill to provide incentives to the auto industry to accelerate efforts to develop more energy-efficient vehicles to lessen dependence on oil;
•S.115 : A bill to suspend royalty relief, to repeal certain provisions of the Energy Policy Act of 2005, and to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to repeal certain tax incentives for the oil and gas industry; and •S.133 : A bill to promote the national security and stability of the economy of the United States by reducing the dependence of the United States on oil through the use of alternative fuels and new technology, and for other purposes.

Clinton had only one bill that I could find that addressed the same issue, S.701 : A bill to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to impose a temporary oil profit fee and to use the proceeds of the fee collected to provide a Strategic Energy Fund and expand certain energy tax incentives, and for other purposes.

Obama wants to "repeal certain tax incentives for the oil and gas industry". Clinton sees the answer in a "temporary oil profit fee" and to "expand certain energy tax incentives" for alternative energy. Obama's alternative energy bill (S.133) was co-sponsored by Harkin, Lugar and Salazar. Clinton's bill again had no co-sponsors.

On health care he introduced ten bills/amendments, including one amendment that passed: S.AMDT.1041 to S.1082 To improve the safety and efficacy of genetic tests. Other issues addressed in his proposed health care legislation were AIDS research (S.823 ), hospital report cards (S.692 — the V.A., and S.1824 — Medicare), better emergency care (S.1873), and drug price controls (S.2347).

Clinton's health care bills, for the most part, didn't impress me much, although she introduced many more bills in this area than Obama did:

S.CON.RES.63 : A concurrent resolution expressing the sense of the Congress regarding the need for additional research into the chronic neurological condition hydrocephalus, and for other purposes.
S.RES.176 : A resolution recognizing April 30, 2007, as "National Healthy Schools Day".
S.RES.222 : A resolution supporting the goals and ideals of Pancreatic Cancer Awareness Month.
S.201 : A bill to establish a grant program for individuals still suffering health effects as a result of the September 11, 2001, attacks in New York City and at the Pentagon.
S.907 : A bill to establish an Advisory Committee on Gestational Diabetes, to provide grants to better understand and reduce gestational diabetes, and for other purposes.
S.993 : A bill to improve pediatric research.
S.982 : A bill to amend the Public Health Service Act to provide for integration of mental health services and mental health treatment outreach teams, and for other purposes.
S.1065 : A bill to improve the diagnosis and treatment of traumatic brain injury in members and former members of the Armed Forces, to review and expand telehealth and telemental health programs of the Department of Defense and the Department of Veterans Affairs, and for other purposes.
S.1075 : A bill to amend title XIX of the Social Security Act to expand access to contraceptive services for women and men under the Medicaid program, help low income women and couples prevent unintended pregnancies and reduce abortion, and for other purposes.
S.1343 : A bill to amend the Public Health Service Act with respect to prevention and treatment of diabetes, and for other purposes.
S.1712 : A bill to amend the Public Health Service Act to improve newborn screening activities, and for other purposes.

and on and on. Plenty of these have plenty of co-sponsors. Obviously, Hillary Clinton really knows her stuff on the issues of health care. None of them passed, however. On Obama's side, one of his health care initiatives passed in the Senate, the aforementioned amendment to Kennedy's S.1082, the FDA Revitalization Act.

Truth be told, it was very depressing doing this research to see all these great ideas and how little actually gets done. Looking at the legislative history of Kennedy's bill is a good example. It finally passed but its sister bill in the House, H.R.2900, was the one that was finally enacted, and with it, Obama's amendment for safe and effective genetic testing. Clinton submitted two amendments to this bill, one of would have eliminated the sunsetting of pediatric data collection; the other would have begin the process to approve generic versions of complex and expensive drugs called biologics or biotech drugs. Neither were adopted.

Now let's look more closely at Obama.

I was blown away as I started going through his record. I've already mentioned his bills on health care and energy. In addition he had introduced bills on Iran, voting, veterans, global warming, campaign finance and lobbyists, Blackwater, global poverty, nuclear proliferation, and education.
On Iran: S.J.RES.23 : A joint resolution clarifying that the use of force against Iran is not authorized by the Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq, any resolution previously adopted, or any other provision of law.

On votingPassed out of Committee and now on the Senate Calendar for Feb. 22, 2008
S.453 : A bill to prohibit deceptive practices in Federal elections Please check this out! This is a great bill. We need this. I can't believe that this time voter intimidation is not already illegal.

On veterans and military personnel: S.1084 : A bill to provide housing assistance for very low-income veterans;

On global warmingS.1324 : A bill to amend the Clean Air Act to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from transportation fuel sold in the United States;S.1389 : A bill to authorize the National Science Foundation to establish a Climate Change Education Program; S.AMDT.599 to S.CON.RES.21 To add $200 million for Function 270 (Energy) for the demonstration and monitoring of carbon capture and sequestration technology by the Department of Energy. (This last one passed both the House and the Senate as part of the budget bill.)

On campaign finance and lobbyists S.2030 : A bill to amend the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 to require reporting relating to bundled contributions made by persons other than registered lobbyists; and S.AMDT.41 to S.1 To require lobbyists to disclose the candidates, leadership PACs, or political parties for whom they collect or arrange contributions, and the aggregate amount of the contributions collected or arranged.

On Blackwater S.2044 : A bill to provide procedures for the proper classification of employees and independent contractors, and for other purposes, and S.2147 : A bill to require accountability for contractors and contract personnel under Federal contracts, and for other purposes.

On global poverty S.2433 : A bill to require the President to develop and implement a comprehensive strategy to further the United States foreign policy objective of promoting the reduction of global poverty, the elimination of extreme global poverty, and the achievement of the Millennium Development Goal of reducing by one-half the proportion of people worldwide, between 1990 and 2015, who live on less than $1 per day.

On global nuclear proliferation S.1977 : A bill to provide for sustained United States leadership in a cooperative global effort to prevent nuclear terrorism, reduce global nuclear arsenals, stop the spread of nuclear weapons and related material and technology, and support the responsible and peaceful use of nuclear technology.

I counted nine education bills, but it's getting late and I've got to get my kids ready for bed.

As I mentioned earlier, Clinton is a frequent co-sponsor on many of Obama's bills. So is Ted Kennedy. So are a number of Republicans.

Finally, Obama appears to have a better record last year in the Senate on getting his bills and amendments passed than does Clinton. I've listed everything that passed the Senate for each them at the end in boxes. But check out Thomas.loc.gov for yourself. I may have missed something.

In my eyes Obama is the superior choice in every way. He cares about more of the issues that matter to me. Kids and health care are important but so is the issue of global warming, on which Clinton introduced not a single bill last year.

Obama is a leader. With bigger majorities in Congress, much of his agenda should sail through. He can inspire this country to change course on so many things, from health care to global warming, where attitudes have to be changed first. I remember Bill Clinton's endless laundry lists of small, focus group approved initiatives. For those who say Hillary will not govern like Bill did, I respond that the people who were doing the market testing of his proposed policies were Dick Morris, of course, and Mark Penn, who is now running Hillary's campaign.

Stephanie, That Hillary is close in the popular vote is misleading. She started out in these primaries with a huge lead in the polls and with more money than any other primary candidate in history and more name recognition. This monumental collapse is a testament to the power of Obama's message. America is completely divided because of the way politics works in our country. A lot of name calling and hyperbole (eg Ann Coulters assertions that all liberals are traitors). The success of Obama shows that a large chunk of the electorate is unhappy with the state of politics in our country. Under the "old politics" Hillary is probably a better candidate than Obama but under the old politics we also get partisan bickering, gridlock and a dysfunctional government. Hillary's plan for the general election is the same old "focus on a few purple states" and try to get to 271 in the electoral college. Obama's plan is to build a working majority by refusing to accept the old political divisions and by taking it to the republicans in all 50 states and bringing in independents and disaffected republicans into the fold. Our govt is broken - it's time to turn the page on the old politics that got us into this mess.

All said and done, it was nice to see the two Democrats agree on a number of points, including the waste and shame of the Republican years in WH.

McCain's connections to Vick Iseman and other lobbyists should be researched more. This newly converted conservative might be hiding other skeletons in his closet. In my book, he already has enough against him: advocacy of a hundred-year-Iraq war, pro-torture, Keating Five connection, pro-tax cuts for the rich, etc. The Democrats should go on the attack on each of these points. Time to torpedo the Republican aging swift-boat!

The other thing to think about. Do YOU ALL ACTUALLY THINK THAT AMERICAN'S ARE GOING TO OK MANDATED HEALTH CARE? (not the same as car insurance - you can choose to have a car or not, not a life). So let's look closer. I'm self-employed, make decent money but not enough to cover me and my son - so only my son is covered. I make over $75k per year. So WHO IS GOING TO LOOK AT MY TAX RETURN AND DECIDE HOW MUCH I CAN AFFORD?!?!? Are they going to tell me take your son out of private school, because I have to pay for this insurance?
btw. Obamanites do hate Clinton - I just don't trust her. and here's why.
* Whitewater,
* Madison Guaranty Savings and Loan,
* Rose Law Firm,
* 1000% profit Cattle Futures,
* Castle Grande,
* The McDougals,
* Web Hubbell,
* Tyson Foods,
* Lippo Group,
* Vince Foster,
* David Hale,
* Paula Jones,
* Jim Guy Tucker,
* Chinagate,
* James Riady,
* Mike Espy,
* Billy Dale,
* John Huang,
* Ron Brown,
* "No controlling legal authority,"
* FBI filegate,
* Missing subpoenaed Rose Law firm files reappear in White House,
* Charlie Trie,
* Bruce Babbitt,
* Maria Hsia,
* Kathleen Willey,
* Sidney Blumenthal,
* Vernon Jordan,
* Juanita Broderick,
* Pardongate,
* Marc Rich.

I was also amazed that Ms. Clinton would cite the memory of watching wounded soldiers coming into a hall as "the" moment for her, and, yes, DH, I was old enough to remember 9.11 and the go-to-war hysteria of the time.

I think it was clear then, and in retrospect, how Bush/Cheney tried to whip up some sort of patriotic fervor to avenge our dead at the same time the inspectors were saying that they hadn't found anything. I would have none of it then and have none of it now.

Senator Obama did a brave thing back then in speaking out against this madness, as did Al Gore and many others. Hillary Clinton did not and has never admitted to making a mistake on this horrible, tragic event in our history, and I would imagine she would get choked up watching the wounded parade before her.

correction DO NOT HATE Clinton

To Hillary's supporters:
Please don't think all of us Obama fans hate Hillary. We don't. We simply feel that her tactics have been too negative.

The trouble with the Clintons is that they spent so much time fighting against Republicans that they turned into Republicans themselves. Her attack tactics seem like Karl Rove's, including the one about plagiarism. What hypocrisy! Most lines of any President's (and Presidential candidates') are written by speech-writers these days.

Also her claims of being named after Sir Edmund Hillary (when she was born years before Hillary climbed Everest), her wanting to include MI and FL delegates after the fact, her campaign mismanagement (look up today's NYT article on HRC camp's lavish spending), her denigrating the popular vote (with excuses like the state voted AGAINST her because it's too red, had a caucus, had too many African Americans, too small compared to OH and TX, too many young people, etc.)--all of these are definite turn offs.

Many of us Obama fans would vote for HRC if she becomes the nominee but not without holding our nose as we do it. The only comfort we would have is that she is not a corrupt, warmongering, bigoted, "let them eat cake" Republican.

The real question that didn't get asked is why we think government solutions make better use of resources than private solutions.

Democrats believe that taking greater control over private resources (through taxes, squeezing private sector companies out of business, eminent domain, etc.) will give them the control that they could never get in the private sector. That would actually require sending resources to their greatest good by allowing the pricing mechanism to work.

Failures in the private sector most frequently occur BECAUSE OF government intervention. Through corporate and private contributions, big business can influence politics. Big companies don't argue against government regulation except in a token sense because these regulations serve as barriers to entry against small startups that could provide better goods and services.

Look at what big oil has done for us with the Bush Administration if you need an example to bring this home. Look at what trial lawyers have done for us with the Democrats if you need something on the other side of the Congressional aisle.

Next... for Marc... that treat after dinner is "dessert" rather than "desert." That's another spell-check miss.

Now, before we get our just "desserts," we should look at a few outtakes from the debate where Obama gives his messianic superiority glance, believing that he will, somehow, save us from ourselves and gridlock that prevents advancing his socialist agenda. I laugh out loud when he does that pursed-lip stare upward and to the right as if praying to Allah that we will all come to our senses and trust his dictatorial use of our personal wealth.

Queen Hillary, on the other hand, believes that BY HER BIRTH she deserves to take all our private wealth from us and re-distribute it in ways that make sense to her. Why wouldn't they make sense to all of us if we just trust her dictatorial use of our personal wealth?

McCain... ugh. At least McCain has moments of humility. I don't know if his stated and true intentions shake hands on occasion, but at least he stands for less pork, lower taxes, and more limited government than our brothers (non gender-oriented and designed to exacerbate the PC) in the Democrat Party.

If only Libertarians could find an eloquent-speaking candidate with ethos, experience and willingness to run.

OBAMA SMOKES?! REALLY? A SMOKING PRESIDENT...I WILL DEFINITELY HAVE SOME EXPLAINING TO DO WITH MY CHILDREN!

[SouthAustin] How is exactly Senator Obama going to appeal to Republicans with his promises to give amnesty to illegal immigrants, repeal Bush's tax cuts, wave the white flag and run from Iraq, embrace Ahmadinejad, attack Pakistan, and appoint Supreme Court justices who, not only will uphold Roe v. Wade, but also, as Obama wrote in "The Audacity of Hope", must, as a necessary prerequisite, understand that the meaning of the constitution has to "change over time" ? Also, do you think Obama, one of the most liberal members of the Senate with no tradition whatsoever of leadership in reaching across the aisle, is really going to win 50 states and form a "working majority" ending political bickering in Washington ?

I guess Senator Obama doesn't like that his supporters are occasionally called "delusional", but, I can't help telling you, you need to get real !

All the Hillary haters are repulsive. There cannot be necessary reconciliation in our party until the Obama supporters quit being so hateful. How do they expect to create unity that way? First of all, it is hypocritical to be part of a campaign of hope and then to spew such venom toward one of the Democratic party's biggest heroes. I am always suspicious of these people that hate Hillary so much. They must have not been paying attention for the last 20 years, only tuning in now that they have fallen in love with a personality. Do these people really care about the issues, the platform of the Democratic party? Obama has a great personality, don't get me wrong, but that's not why I like him. If he wins the nomination, I will support him wholeheartedly because he is a Democrat and his mind is in the right place, not because he has charisma.

Stephanie here are the facts


Popular Vote Total - - Obama 10,300,410
Clinton 9,375,213

difference = 925,197 - almost 1 million more people voted for Obama

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

I find most of these comments quite disturbing. For one, many of you seem to think a president can bring peace, love and harmony. Get real. Second, you all act like things are so bad right now. Again, get real. I'm no fan of GW, but the reality is that for the past 7 years the economy has been incredibly strong, particularly when you factor in the bursting of the stock market bubble in 2000-2001 and of course, 9/11. Unemployment and interest rates have been at historical lows during the entire administration. As far as foreign policy goes, he has eliminated two of the most oppressive, murderous regimes in the world. He finally delivered on 12 years of hollow UN threats to Iraq, eliminated the concern of WMD's there, eliminated WMD development in Libya, brought together the Pacific powers to halt North Korean WMD development and has done more for Africa than any president in US history. As far as the claim that everyone hates the US, who hates us now that didn't before he took office? Probably only the countries making millions off the fraudulant oil for food scam. Times are good folks!

To Insiderman who wrote, "Failures in the private sector most frequently occur BECAUSE OF government intervention."

What planet do you live on? Trillions of dollars have disappeared from the stock market during the last fifteen years and we've only caught and prosecuted a handful of the culprits. Private companies like Enron, Haliburton, KBR, and Blackwater have not only wasted funds in humongous proportions but also brought shame to the country. The current sub prime mortgate crisis has happened not because of too much government oversight but too little of it.

The fact is money has to be spent responsibly whether it is by the government or by private corporations.

I used to be naive like you and think that everything privately-run was efficient until I lost a big chunk of money investing in companies whose fat-cat CEOs escaped in golden parachutes even as their companies went up in smoke. Wake up and feel the lobotomy stitches on your head. It may not be too late unless you keep listening to Rush Limbaugh and other over-paid, under-taxed drug addicts.

to Insiderman - how do you explain Worldcom and Enron? Why is there GAAP?

How would should this healthcare crisis get fixed? What should happen about the slide into recession and the mortgage crisis?

to Insiderman - how do you explain Worldcom and Enron? Why is there GAAP?

How would should this healthcare crisis get fixed? What should happen about the slide into recession and the mortgage crisis?

to Christine Trotman: 1. Obama does not smoke - he used to smoke.
2. Clinton - has been involved in more scandals than anyone in recent history - how do you explain that to your kids?
3. McCain is in a scandal now - let's assume it's not true. His answer to what we should do about terrorists, "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb iran" he sang it to the tune of Barbara Ann -- was it a joke? I don't know - but it's scarry!!!

to Insiderman - how do you explain Worldcom and Enron? Why is there GAAP?

How would should this healthcare crisis get fixed? What should happen about the slide into recession and the mortgage crisis?

to Christine Trotman: 1. Obama does not smoke - he used to smoke.
2. Clinton - has been involved in more scandals than anyone in recent history - how do you explain that to your kids?
3. McCain is in a scandal now - let's assume it's not true. His answer to what we should do about terrorists, "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb iran" he sang it to the tune of Barbara Ann -- was it a joke? I don't know - but it's scary!!!

Dr Ray: Please don't think all of us Obama fans hate Hillary. We don't.

Sorry, pal, but I call BS. Look at the posts here from top to bottom. You could easily think these people consider her the second coming of GWB. It's hypocritical. Obama's people talk about about a great uniter, ending politics of personal destruction etc., etc. He may or may not play out that way, but these forum hoards are going to make it very difficult for the party to unite once he (prob) takes the nomination.

You Obamabots are pathetic. HC is NOT BC. She is better than him in most ways. At the end of the debate HC gave a prelude to what will most likely be a very classy exit from the race if she sees it going down, possibly even before March 4th. And still you spew hate and vomit. I am disgusted. Good luck with the wholesome message, hypocrites.

[TheUrbanRevolution re: your reply to Christine] I don't think that really matters, but Obama was still a chain cigarette smoker as late as early 2007. In fact, I believe Michelle mentioned back then that he smoked as many as three packs a day. When did he quit ?

Hildebeast - things may be rosy in your world, but in my middle class world - they're not -- i work harder for the same amount of money that has less buying power.
things are BAD in America and if you are a person of color they're worse.
(and i do have an education - including grad degree)

Hillary did really well in the debate and I think her overall theme was:

1. Here is one final moment to really inform the public the differences between our healthcare plans.

2. This is my plan for the economy and how the plan will benefit the American public.

3. There are several steps to take before meeting with certain leaders.

4. This is how I plan to withdraw troops from Iraq.

4. No matter what happens, I don't want divide Democrats, I want Democrats to win in November.

The "xerox" line was stupid and planned. But I think that line (though it was obvious that the media - as intelligent as they are - were going to make that the defining moment), was nothing compared to what she said about everything else.

Obama voters doubt it, but Hillary does work hard for the American people and even if she loses, no matter how big many people think her ego is, deep down she wants the American middle class to have a fair chance in this country and keep their jobs and houses, and though her goal is to become President just like the other candidates, her main concern is that we give everybody a chance to succeed and that we have a better relationship with the rest of the world.

Hillary definitely displayed that message last night. Of the two candidates, I though she was more eloquent and was very, very good at making clear points.

The BURIED story from the 02 21 08 Clinton/Obama debate in Austin, Texas, is in their health care exchange, in the point made by Obama on their difference on mandates and their different way of getting to universal coverage. This was the point that made HRC refuse to answer the next question and insist on getting back to health care.

For the first time, Obama inserted the point raised by David Brooks in his NYTimes Feb. 5 column “The Cooper Concerns” about HRC’s absolutist opposition to Jim Cooper’s (D, TN) centrist health care plan in 1993 which did not include a mandate. Brooks’ column was the most emailed NYT article that week.

I was stunned to read that HRC’s failure in 1993 may have been due to her inability to work with a Democratic congress! Americans have had 15 years of health insurance hell because of her management style? And she wants to repeat history? And no one except me and HRC noticed that Obama finally, indirectly, used this example of a key difference in the debate?

The relevant excerpt from the debate transcript follows.

FROM THE DEBATE TRANSCRIPT:
OBAMA: Now, there are legitimate arguments for why Senator Clinton and others have called for a mandate, and I'm happy to have that debate. But the notion that I am leaving 15 -- 15 million people out somehow implies that we are different in our goals of providing coverage to all Americans, and that is simply not true. We think that there's going to be a different way of getting there.
One last point I want to make on the health care front. I admire the fact that Senator Clinton tried to bring about health care reform back in 1993. She deserves credit for that. (Applause.) But I -- I've said before I think she did it in the wrong way because it wasn't just the fact that the insurance companies and the drug companies were battling her -- and no doubt they were -- it was also that Senator Clinton and the administration went behind closed doors, excluded the participation even of Democratic members of Congress who had slightly different ideas than the ones that Senator Clinton had put forward. And as a consequence, it was much more difficult to get Congress to cooperate.
And I've said that I'm going to do things differently.

In last post second point 4 is 5. lol

I thought Obama did an excellent job showing how the war and the economy are connected. I thought Hilary's ending was contrived; those wounded soldiers became wounded in a war she authorized. She seemed to be trying to tear up about it. And then talking about all the "hits' she took in her life; of course everyone thought about Monica Lewinsky and Bill's infidelilties. It made me cringe, because she was smiling about it at first, then trying to get sympathy. And yes, she did repeat the NH thing, "How do you do it?" How does anyone do it; a lot of people have it much harder than she does. It was kind of insulting, really. As a woman I was embarrassed. She seems dysfunctional to me. I don't hate her. But she seems unstable, and even last night she changed her positions again: bringing troops home in 60 days, getting immigration done in her first 100 days. Her cheap Xerox shot, then saying what an honor it was to sit next to him. Who the hell is she? Obama was consistent throughout in his message about unity, foreign policy, healthcare and the economy. I know a lot of people talk about his message of Hope. But to me he represents competence, an ability to see the big picture.

Go Obama Go
I like the way Obama handled the debate. He is the only president who can change the system in the presidency.
HRC deserve another term in the senate before she retire. She should concentrate on that now.

It seemed to me that Clinton's comment about having support and friends, and being fine no matter what happens was in effect an acknowledgement she lost the race, and she wanted her fans to know she'll be ok.

To Dr. John wrote wrote, "You Obamabots are pathetic. HC is NOT BC. She is better than him in most ways."

It is Hillary who chose to include Bill's experience as part of hers. How else does she get 35 years experience? She's 60 and graduated from Law School when she was 25. So everything after her graduation, including being on the board of Wal Mart, Whitewater, etc. is all public service whereas Obama's experience as a Civil Rights attorney and a community organizer count for nothing in her eyes. If you think being a President's wife counts, would you expect surgery from a surgeon's spouse?

Dr John also wrote, "Good luck with the wholesome message, hypocrites."

With all due respect, Hillary wins the hypocrisy race hands down. But in the interest of party unity, I will not go through a list of her crimes and misdemeanors. A "classy exit," as you put it is her best bet at this point. The only state she has won recently is the state of denial.:)

To Dr. John wrote wrote, "You Obamabots are pathetic. HC is NOT BC. She is better than him in most ways."

It is Hillary who chose to include Bill's experience as part of hers. How else does she get 35 years experience? She's 60 and graduated from Law School when she was 25. So everything after her graduation, including being on the board of Wal Mart, Whitewater, etc. is all public service whereas Obama's experience as a Civil Rights attorney and a community organizer count for nothing in her eyes. If you think being a President's wife counts, would you expect surgery from a surgeon's spouse?

Dr John also wrote, "Good luck with the wholesome message, hypocrites."

With all due respect, Hillary wins the hypocrisy race hands down. But in the interest of party unity, I will not go through a list of her crimes and misdemeanors. A "classy exit," as you put it is her best bet at this point. The only state she has won recently is the state of denial.:)

I was impressed by her seeming inability to answer a simple, straight question.

Did anyone else think that the painted smile on HRC the whole debate was kind of creepy? She looked like she had lockjaw or the Joker in Batman.

Hillary borrows a few lines

Morning funny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H60y8mHMpmU&feature=related

The change we can zerox vs polarization we can count on.

GO OBAMA

Dr Ray,

In using the term hypocrites, I was specifically referring to Obama's supporters. The context and grammar used clearly indicate this. And I stand by it.

And since you brought up Wal-Mart and Whitewater, thereby attempting to imply that HC is somehow crooked, and that her association with those two entities proves it, I will mention Tony Rezko in response. Keep his name in mind, because there will be much discussion of it this fall.

Along with discussion of how Mr. Obama plans to pay for his political Nirvana in a time of impending recession and a multi-front war. His victory speech in Houston was a long list money-out ideas. While noble in thought, seem to ignore practicality.

My statement about HC being better than BC stands as well, in spite of your off-topic response to it. HC is well respected in the Senate, by Democrats and Republicans. That alone should show how different she is from BC.

You said that it shouldn't be expected for a Surgeon's wife to perform surgery. Two things about that analogy. 1. You at once claim the stated dichotomy and yet are happy to blame the "surgeon's wife" for perceived surgical botches by the "surgeon" himself. You can't have it both ways, Dr Ray. 2. The wife can attend medical school and become a "surgeon" herself.
Not the best of analogies, Dr.

So again, I repeat, good luck. Good luck in recovering from the impending dose of reality. Realism vs. hope. Hope doesn't cure all, Dr Ray.

Dr John

Dr Ray,

In using the term hypocrites, I was specifically referring to Obama's supporters. The context and grammar used clearly indicate this. And I stand by it.

And since you brought up Wal-Mart and Whitewater, thereby attempting to imply that HC is somehow crooked, and that her association with those two entities proves it, I will mention Tony Rezko in response. Keep his name in mind, because there will be much discussion of it this fall.

Along with discussion of how Mr. Obama plans to pay for his political Nirvana in a time of impending recession and a multi-front war. His victory speech in Houston was a long list money-out ideas. While noble in thought, seem to ignore practicality.

My statement about HC being better than BC stands as well, in spite of your off-topic response to it. HC is well respected in the Senate, by Democrats and Republicans. That alone should show how different she is from BC.

You said that it shouldn't be expected for a Surgeon's wife to perform surgery. Two things about that analogy. 1. You at once claim the stated dichotomy and yet are happy to blame the "surgeon's wife" for perceived surgical botches by the "surgeon" himself. You can't have it both ways, Dr Ray. 2. The wife can attend medical school and become a "surgeon" herself.
Not the best of analogies, Dr.

So again, I repeat, good luck. Good luck in recovering from the impending dose of reality. Realism vs. hope. Hope doesn't cure all, Dr Ray.

Dr John

Hillary is burnt toast. I heard Chris Matthews and his guests dissect the debate and he said something about HRC accepting her fate so she can be relevant as a candidate in four years. You know, give her and Bill a reason not to separate now. Oh boy.

Dr Ray,

In using the term hypocrites, I was specifically referring to Obama's supporters. The context and grammar used clearly indicate this. And I stand by it.

And since you brought up Wal-Mart and Whitewater, thereby attempting to imply that HC is somehow crooked, and that her association with those two entities proves it, I will mention Tony Rezko in response. Keep his name in mind, because there will be much discussion of it this fall.

Along with discussion of how Mr. Obama plans to pay for his political Nirvana in a time of impending recession and a multi-front war. His victory speech in Houston was a long list money-out ideas. While noble in thought, seem to ignore practicality.

My statement about HC being better than BC stands as well, in spite of your off-topic response to it. HC is well respected in the Senate, by Democrats and Republicans. That alone should show how different she is from BC.

You said that it shouldn't be expected for a Surgeon's wife to perform surgery. Two things about that analogy. 1. You at once claim the stated dichotomy and yet are happy to blame the "surgeon's wife" for perceived surgical botches by the "surgeon" himself. You can't have it both ways, Dr Ray. 2. The wife can attend medical school and become a "surgeon" herself.
Not the best of analogies, Dr.

So again, I repeat, good luck. Good luck in recovering from the impending dose of reality. Realism vs. hope. Hope doesn't cure all, Dr Ray.

Dr John

Get more election news and videos. Check it out.

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I really believe that Obama was superior to Hillary on all points: emotionally and mentally. At the very end, however, Hillary (a consumate actress from years in the White House and Scandal) put on another Staged Performance, borrowing lines from Edwards and her Husband -

Hillary Clinton, last night: "You know, the hits I’ve taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country."
Bill Clinton, 92: "The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits the people of this state and this country have been taking for a long time."

to emotionally sway the people to think that, that is the real Hillary coming through. However, we've seen this all before (it is like the Boy crying wolf). The real Hillary is the one who, time after time, after Obama wins a primary or caucus, comes out on stage and does not have the decency to Congratulate him at all. THAT IS THE REAL HILLARY!

And Yes, the Lady Doth Plagerizes, but is smart enough not to use All of the Words, Just most of them!

In the first place, the standing ovation wasn't for her. It was for the debate. In the second, I don't see why this is seen as gracious. It was a veiled threat. More of her politics of fear. Read it again:

"...whatever happens, we're going to be fine. I just hope that we'll be able to say the same thing about the American people."

She just hopes WHAT? What in the hell did she mean by that? I'll tell you what she meant: she meant, "If you vote for Obama, you're going to be sorry."

This was more of the same from the biggest phony in American politics.

To Dr John who wrote, "Along with discussion of how Mr. Obama plans to pay for his political Nirvana in a time of impending recession and a multi-front war."

Whoever becomes President next has to face these challenges. At least Obama with his enthusiasm will not fare any worse than Hillary with her cynicism and McCain with his corruption and hypocrisy.

Dr John also wrote, "The wife can attend medical school and become a "surgeon" herself.
Not the best of analogies, Dr."

Excellent point. Whether she finished "medical school" or not is the question here. Serving in one elected office in her entire life and spending $30 million in her bid to win an easy Senate race and now spending $130 million in a possibly losing bid for Democratic nomination do not show Hillary to have completed her education or her training.

Your warnings to the Obama camp are on the nose but I don't think he's a bad choice considering the other options. If some of Obama's online fans--many of whom are probably teens or post-teens, go overboard a bit, please forgive them. They're like my kids. They can be hurtful in word but will be more compassionate in action. After all, they are Democrats, not "let them eat cake" Republicans.

Paul, when I read your 1st comment I sensed that you might be a racist.....but your 2nd comment confirmed my suspicion.
(copied and pasted)
"What makes everyone believe that Obama can unite the country? Because he's black? Because he's an eloquent speaker? As Walter Mondale famously said of Gary Hart, "Where's the beef?"

He can unite the country not because he's black, yes, because he's an eloquent speaker but, mostly because the results clearly shows that he's transcended every race, every age group etc.

If you keep an open mind you might find out that the American people as a whole have clearly choosen Obama as a better candidate than your Hilary.

To Ella on Paul: please ignore the immature. One thing that some juveniles can't handle is mature discussion. They bring in race and gender when it is totally unnecessary.

Stay united and stay focused, Democrats!

As a Canadian I feel sorry for myself. I wish this brilliant man (Barack Obama) would have been born here. I hope that all americains will jump on this extraordinaire chance to make this incredible man their president. That would show the world that you are very intelligent people. Every one in Canada have the Obama fever as well.
I would say also that you should protect your precious candidate...

Yes you can

A canadian

I would have to call the debate in favor of Obama.

The "Silly Season" was one that captured the essence of the plagiarism charges.

1) It is a silly charge when the line was given to him to be used without need for acknowledgment.
2) Clinton her self plagiarized, if we follow her definition of plagiarism, in the same debate when he took her Husband's line without given credit and took John Edward's lines and ideas without giving credit.
3) It is the time of the race when some one needs to have a big break. In order to make that break she needs, Clinton is grasping at straws and is throwing everything at Obama to see what might stick. That is what she is doing with this argument, and her behavior is making her look silly in the process.

Yes she did have a very nice moment at the end, but it felt prepared and did not quite reach genuine. Very close, but not quite there.

For a campaign that accuses Obama supporters of being Cult like, Clinton supporters are very close to it. They all recite the same well rehursed lines over and over again. "She is experience and ready on day one." And "Obama is not ready yet." And "Obama has not substance." They appear to froth at the mouth for their candidate.

I would be willing to bet most of Clinton's supporters could not name her accomplishments in the Senate. Being the wife of a President is not an accomplishment. Heading up a failed health care plan is not an accomplishment. This is not much different than for Obama's supporters, but it is still there. Truth be told they are both descent Senators with a track record for helping Women, Children, family, and war vets. Check out the article here for more information: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/20/201332/807/36/458633

So please, if you want to credit either candidate with experience, please cite an example of that experience.

I heard someone state that the idea that words matter is an original idea. This is not the case, and it is the foundation of Western Civilization. Greek philosophers believed that words mattered and could be used to great affect. You can not get much more historical than that on the issue. When I first heard the claim that words don't matter I had to laugh. As a student, I know words matter, because without them and someone who can use them effectively, new things do not get done. I immediately thought of the various great speakers throughout history including MLK, JFK, Churchill, FDR, and Abraham Lincoln. I could select powerful lines from any of those listed above or many others including most of our founding fathers, and string together the thought that words matter. I would further state that words matter in the same that Obama's co-chair did by giving examples of their words that most Americans can recognize or should recognize that helped move this nation forward. This is not a unique concept, and the style is not unique. It is used in debating to try to drive home a point. In this case it works wonderfully.

It disturbs me greatly that when someone can not come up with anything new throw at Obama, that they try to make fun of his name. They specifically focus in on his middle name, because they think it has shock value. Yeah we know, his middle name is Hussein. Yes we know, there was a ruthless dictator that we just deposed and had executed with the same name for his last name. Guess what, other than a name there really is no connection between the two. I expected this type of behavior from right wing pundits. I was hoping that at least democrat adults might be a little more mature.

Arizona For Hilary,
You sound so much like a wounded lion, while reading your comment I could almost outwardly hear the pain and the frustration in your statements at the fact that Obama is (obviously) the democratic nominee and the next president of America. Take a chill pill, it was orchestrated by powers higher than us, we truly need a real change. Throwing punches at Obama will not help.

"Dr John,"
"In using the term hypocrites, I was specifically referring to Obama's supporters."

A lot of Obama supporters have to deal with the outright lies and vitriol that MANY Hillary supporters (including campaign managers) continuously spew. Obama has been class all the way, and only now (after so many defeats) is Hillary starting to act with some class. But as she herself states, she does it all so "purposefully."

There is a need to unify the Democrats after the previous classless behavior, but the onus is on the Hillary supporters who have been vicious and unfair, not on the Hillary supporters who have been civil. Obama supporters have by and large have stayed away from conjuring lies and deception to support Obama. Look at the Obama blogs; they are so positive.

"Good luck in recovering from the impending dose of reality. Realism vs. hope."

Realism is understanding that the American people want a President who is honest, positive and has a strong bipartisan record in Congress. Hope is for making sure everyone is on the same page for unity and progress. Obama has shown this through and through, and did not resort to negative attacks and lies unlike other candidates (Clinton and McCain).

Obama supporters don't need a dose. They're already quite healthy.

Reading all of your comments makes me sad. The saddest part about it is that once again, Democrats are cutting our own throats. We have a candidate who is incredibly qualified and would be not just a good President, but a great President. And we have a candidate whose claim to fame is 3 1/2 years as a community organizer, an undistinguished stint in the State legislature and.....there is nothing else. But just to show everyone how cool we are, we are voting for the black man, despite his inexperience, dishonesty, immaturity, and narcissistic arrogance. And to top it all off, McCain, the Republicans, and the media are going to have a field day making mincemeat out of this rookie. We could have had a Democrat, a fine woman, in the White House, Instead we're headed for McCain and the continued destruction of our nation. Good job America! Shame on you!

There's too much garbage associated with the Clinton name. The only legacy they'll leave is accurately portrayed in the following link: http://www.therant.us/staff/swirsky/03132006.htm
I also find it arrogant that Senator Clinton chose to ignore the smaller states and focus on the larger ones with more delegates. This is a clear indicator of how she would run the country. As far as foreign affairs, her comment to Putin that he's a "KGB without a soul" is a frightening thought on her approach to diplomacy. I find this statement troublesome since her soul is known to be the coldest place on earth. A presidential figure is obviously not her calling. I would like to see a woman run for office; however, not this one. I don't believe she'll be able to break her glass ceiling even if she were to try it again.

There's too much garbage associated with the Clinton name. The only legacy they'll leave is accurately portrayed in the following link: http://www.therant.us/staff/swirsky/03132006.htm
I also find it arrogant that Senator Clinton chose to ignore the smaller states and focus on the larger ones with more delegates. This is a clear indicator of how she would run the country. As far as foreign affairs, her comment to Putin that he's a "KGB without a soul" is a frightening thought on her approach to diplomacy. I find this statement troublesome since her soul is known to be the coldest place on earth. A presidential figure is obviously not her calling. I would like to see a woman run for office; however, not this one. I don't believe she'll be able to break her glass ceiling even if she were to try it again.

Reading all of your comments makes me sad. The saddest part about it is that once again, Democrats are cutting our own throats. We have a candidate who is incredibly qualified and would be not just a good President, but a great President. And we have a candidate whose claim to fame is 3 1/2 years as a community organizer, an undistinguished stint in the State legislature and.....there is nothing else. But just to show everyone how cool we are, we are voting for the black man, despite his inexperience, dishonesty, immaturity, and narcissistic arrogance. And to top it all off, McCain, the Republicans, and the media are going to have a field day making mincemeat out of this rookie. We could have had a Democrat, a fine woman, in the White House, Instead we're headed for McCain and the continued destruction of our nation. Good job America! Shame on you!

Obama and authenticity wins hands down. I never can understand these Clinton blowhards who even today like to call people cultists etc. and blindly support Clinton without a shred of research into who she is or what she has failed to do and who she truly represents, who that Mark Penn truly is (yeah, union workers and anyone who believes in human rights, get a real load of THAT!!!) (much less any to endeavor support a notion of Obama as an "empty suit"). All they can do is point a finger and loudly propagandize against what real educated people know. And as for the "less educated" even: they struggle along in a system designed to keep them down but they know good character when they see it and they too come to Obama in droves for reasons no less valid. And when the sheep mentality finally drop their quest to put Clinton in the WH, maybe we can finally get somewhere and educate people in this country, give them a chance, and get things back on track.

WHY THE CLINTONS WILL NEVER GET A THIRD TERM.

http://www.therant.us/staff/swirsky/03132006.htm

Let's take a closer look at who's really qualified and or who's really working for the good of all of us in the Senate. Obama or Clinton.

Senator Clinton, who has served only one full term - 6yrs. - and another year campaigning, has managed to author and pass into law - 20 - twenty pieces of legislation in her first six years.

These bills can be found on the website of the Library of Congress www.thomas.loc.gov, but to save you trouble, I'll post them here for you.

1. Establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site.
2. Support the goals and ideals of Better Hearing and Speech Month.
3. Recognize the Ellis Island Medal of Honor.
4. Name courthouse after Thurgood Marshall.
5. Name courthouse after James L. Watson.
6. Name post office after Jonn A. O'Shea.
7. Designate Aug. 7, 2003, as National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
8. Support the goals and ideals of National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
9. Honor the life and legacy of Alexander Hamilton on the bicentennial of his death.
10. Congratulate the Syracuse Univ. Orange Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
11. Congratulate the Le Moyne College Dolphins Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
12. Establish the 225th Anniversary of the American Revolution Commemorative Program.
13. Name post office after Sergeant Riayan A. Tejeda.
14. Honor Shirley Chisholm for her service to the nation and express condolences on her death.
15. Honor John J. Downing, Brian Fahey, and Harry Ford, firefighters who lost their lives on duty. Only five of Clinton's bills are, more substantive. 16. Extend period of unemployment assistance to victims of 9/11.
17. Pay for city projects in response to 9/11 18. Assist landmine victims in other countries.
19. Assist family caregivers in accessing affordable respite care.
20. Designate part of the National Forest System in Puerto Rico as protected in the wilderness preservation system.

Only five of Clinton’s bills are more substantive:
16. Extend period of unemployment assistance to victims of 9/11.
17. Pay for city projects in response to 9/11
18. Assist landmine victims in other countries.
19. Assist family caregivers in accessing affordable respite care.
20. Designate part of the National Forest System in Puerto Rico as protected in the wilderness preservation system.

There you have it. The facts straight from the Senate Records.
Now, I would post those of Obama's, but the list is too substantive, so I'll mainly categorize.

During the first - 8 - eight years of his elected service he sponsored over 820 bills. He introduced


233 regarding healthcare reform,
125 on poverty and public assistance,
112 crime fighting bills,
97 economic bills,
60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills,
21 ethics reform bills,
15 gun control,
6 veterans affairs and many others.

His first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These inculded **the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 - became law, **The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, - became law, **The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate, **The 2007 Government Ethics Bill, - became law, **The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, In committee, and many more.

In all, since entering the U.S. Senate, Senator Obama has written 890 bills and co-sponsored another 1096.

An impressive record, for someone who supposedly has no record according to some who would prefer that this comparison not be made public.

He's not just a talker. He's a doer.

http://jessicafertitta.com/2008/02/19/viva-obama-video-by-amigos-de-obama/

http://www.sodahead.com/poll/16816/?link=HillaryObama_GoogleCPA_Sq5&gclid=CObwq_mY1JECFQgogwod_XXiaw

to realsister:
read this
http://grassroots-mom.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2/20/201332/807/36/458633

then tell me how he has no experience. 8 years as state leg and 3 in us congress. sponsored over 800+ bills 240 enacted that's state alone.

PLEASE READ THE ABOVE ARTICLE - this person went through great lengths to research every bill both clinton and obama sponsored and co sponsored in the last 2 years

then explain to me how he has no impressive track record and I'll reconsider voting for him.

For all of you who supported George Bush for two terms, can you name any of his accomplishments before or during his term in office?

In spite of the scandalous track record that the Clintons are infamous for, I find it hard to believe why her supporters aren't getting it. Her approval rating is not much higher than Bush's. The majority of her support are from women who would vote for her based strictly on gender. It's not about what she thinks she can do. It's about her character. It's that simple.
http://www.therant.us/staff/swirsky/03132006.htm

To Arizona for Hillary: it is uncivil attacks like yours that are partly responsible for Hillary finding herself almost down and out. I think Hillary deserves better supporters.

Hillary said she was going to hit the ground running. As someone said elsewhere, we don't know if she hit it running but she sure has hit the ground thanks to her own "heir apparent" arrogance and her attack dogs.

YOU NOTICED WHEN ASKED ABOUT CUBA CLINTON SAID IN SO MANY WORDS THAT CUBA WOULD HAVE TO DO A BUNCH OF STUFF BEFORE SHE TALKED TO THEM? WELL GUESS WHAT ALL YOU "FORIEGN POLICY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO ME"...

THATS EXACTLY GEORGE BUSH'S POLICY! IT'S HIS
PRE-CONDITIONS POLICY. THAT'S RIGHT, WE WONT TALK TO YOU UNLESS YOU DO A, B, OR C FIRST, "BECAUSE I'M THE BOSS OF THIS HERE WORLD AND I GOT THE GUNS MTHR FKR".

THAT IS PRECISELY THE MAIN AREA OF OUR FORIEGN POLICY THAT MUST BE CHANGED!

OBAMA ON THE OTHER HAND, SAYS WE NEED TO HAVE A WELL THOUGHT OUT A G E N D A TO BRING TO THE TABLE WITH OUR FOES...AND TALK ABOUT THE AGENDA. WHICH IS HOW ONE MAKES HEADWAY TOWARDS RESPECT (BOTH WAYS) AND A WORKING RELATIONSHIP.

ARE YOU "FOR HILLARY" PEOPLE REALLY PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION?

Hillary will fight Plagiarism and bring honesty back. LOL....Please click the links bellow. Hillary copies two people minutes after blaming Obama for it. LOL...This is why no one trusts the Clintons. They are hypocrties and they are gone...almost.

Hillary copies Edward:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAYItnI-lPo

Hillary copies Bill Clinton
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/179614.php

Are we to believe Obama isn't a politican? You all need to go to Real Clear Politics and read what is written about the messiah! I'll vote Republican before I'd put that inexperienced greater than thou man in the White House!

To: Miguel Rodriguez
Yes, Hillary probably does like latinos now that Texas is one third latino populated. She used to like African Americans too until she wasn't getting their votes. If you will remember, she was in favor of a border fence until last night's debate. Still don't get it?

Hillary Clinton cannot criticize Barack Obama on plagiarism because every word out of her mouth is focus group driven, poll tested, and calculated.

Even if he was guilty of plagiarism, that would be like her attacking Wall Street after making $100,000 trading commodities.

She cannot afford any more "hypocrite" charges.

Respectfully,

eric aka the Tygrrrr Express
http://blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com/2008/02/22/texas-smackdown/

from union leader

INSTEAD OF COMPARING Hillary Clinton's and Barack Obama's experience -- a vague set of claims -- I turned my attention toward accomplishments. Not what they've accomplished for themselves, but what they've accomplished for others.

In doing so, I excluded purely personal gains. I also eliminated all distinctions or honors. For similar reasons, I ignored the elections they've won. These credentials are well-known.

Also, like any alert prospective employer, I am informed by what they support, worked on, worked toward and fought for, but I am more interested in what they have accomplished for their constituents.

After graduating from Columbia, Obama went to work with churches that organized job training and other programs for residents of a massive housing project in Chicago. He persuaded the city to provide summer jobs, remove asbestos, repair toilets, pipes and ceilings. He went door to door, offering help for three years, then went to Harvard Law School.

Upon graduating from Wellesley, Hillary Rodham made a commencement speech that moved her audience. She went immediately to Yale Law School.

Obama returned to Chicago to lead Project Vote, which signed up about 150,000 new African-American voters. He also joined a big law firm.

Following Yale, and a year in Washington, Rodham moved to Arkansas and married Bill Clinton. She taught at the University of Arkansas and joined a big law firm.

Clinton established a legal aid clinic at the university, where she taught for two years. Obama began teaching at the University of Chicago, where he would continue to lecture for 11 years. I mention teaching because I consider it an accomplishment in the service of others.

During her time as an attorney in Arkansas, Clinton gave birth to Chelsea. Her husband ran unsuccessfully for Congress, successfully for attorney general, and governor. During Obama's time as an attorney in Chicago, he became a husband and father of two daughters. He entered the Illinois Senate in 1994.

As a member of the minority party of the Senate for six of his eight years there, Obama wrote a health insurance law that covered an additional 20,000 children, a welfare reform law, an earned-income-tax-credit law for working-poor families, and death penalty reform that passed unanimously. During his last two years in the majority, he sponsored 780 bills, 280 of which became law.

As first lady of Arkansas, and of the United States, Clinton served on many boards. She chaired only one: the Task Force on National Health Care Reform, which failed, accomplishing only political traction for Republicans and a setback for her husband.

She fended off prosecution involving the White House Travel Office and her investments with Whitewater. Although these are personal accomplishments, they also served constituents by protecting her husband.

A year after Clinton became a senator, she secured $20 billion for New York City in the wake of 9/11. Among other funding measures she directed toward her state, she prevented the closing of a military base there. Although she is considered to be one of the most influential Democrats in the Senate, most of her sponsored legislation has been symbolic -- naming two post offices, two courthouses, honoring and congratulating sports teams and historic figures from New York.

Since Obama entered the U.S. Senate in 2004, he has joined Republican Richard Lugar in writing a law that funds the destruction or securing of loose nuclear and conventional weapons (shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles, for example) throughout the world. He also introduced the first bill, that soon became law, to fund and address pandemic flu preparedness.

In one inspiring discovery, Obama and Clinton teamed up to pass a law that helps hospitals disclose medical errors. It goes a long way toward serving patients while reducing malpractice claims.

There is no way to assess the value of each candidate's participation in collective efforts to serve our country. Clinton has given time to many efforts and lived approximately 5,000 more days than Obama, amassing supporters, money and fame. But time spent achieving such goals can hardly be seen as accomplishments for the good of the people.

Obama's accomplishments show greater efficiency and clarity of purpose, forming productive alliances, making the most of his comparatively short career.

People talk about his charisma, but give me that skill and focus, trained on a four-year term, and we could see unprecedented results.

Isn't it odd that all the anti-Obama articles (whether pro-Hillary or Republican) that declare that Obama lacks substance do not provide any substantive details and concentrate peripheral nuances.

Obama does not provide any way to attack him because he is a decent man. Look at his Congressional record, and you'll see evidence of bipartisan success and significant legislation that will impact our and future generations.

Why don't they attack him on his legislation? I wonder why not ... LOL

"I am honored to be here with Barack Obama ... whatever happens, we're going to be fine. I just hope that we'll be able to say the same thing about the American people." -Hillary Clinton

Just a reminder, Hillary Clinton will be fine. But the American people are down to their last Clinton. Well, their last chance to elect a Clinton. The problem with Hillary is that she's Hillary – that and the fact that she's got balls as big as your head: http://theseedsof9-11.com

GO TO THIS SITE AND SIGN A PETITION ASKING SENATOR CLINTON TO RELEASE HER TAX RETURNS, AS ALL OTHER CANDIDATES HAVE. WHAT'S THE BIG SECRET?

http://beertap.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/ask-senator-clinton-to-release-her-tax-returns/

MORE OF THE SAME? SECRETS AND CORRUPTION FOR 4 MORE YEARS? PLEASE SIGN PETITION!

http://beertap.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/ask-senator-clinton-to-release-her-tax-returns/

Hmmm... There are either some illiterate bots making posts on this site or some teenagers having a really fun time. Note that the illiterate bots are pro HRC:

She make love to America and America make love to her. She loves America so much. I love America, too. It has given me many thing.

This can't be real.

Katie,
Oh do try to be not quite such a bore.
If the compare & contrast concerning the congressional record of achievements concerning the Clinton-Obama match up is not of interest try this.

Military commissions: While Iraq and other military issues have gotten plenty of air time in Democratic debates, there may be a difference between Clinton and Obama on an issue of great concern to many Democrats: President Bush’s policies of restricting court review of military hearings, using torture-obtained evidence and violating Geneva Convention rules on prisoner treatment. No Democratic candidate has supported Bush on these issues, but only Obama, not Clinton, is a co-sponsor of Sen. Chris Dodd’s “Restoring the Constitution Act,” which would reverse these Bush policies. Clinton supports legislation restoring the court review (habeas corpus) that Bush has undercut, but she has not signed on to Dodd’s more aggressive bill.

Health care: The Democratic primary has seen much debate about requiring individuals to buy health insurance and about subsidizing insurance costs, but on one important insurance issue, Obama and Clinton do seem to differ. For decades, insurance companies have been exempt from antitrust laws, which means that unlike other businesses, they can collude to set prices, divide up territory in which they agree not to compete, etc. About one-fifth of Senate Democrats, including Obama but not Clinton, have co-sponsored legislation to repeal this antitrust exemption for malpractice insurance companies, which — if insurers are indeed colluding to keep doctors’ rates high — could lower health care costs.

Environment: As with other issues, there is not a huge difference between Clinton and Obama, but a distinction on one controversial issue explains Obama’s better League of Conservation Voters ratings: In 2006, Obama scored 100 percent to Clinton’s 71 percent; for their entire Senate careers, Obama is at 97.5 percent compared with Clinton’s 87.7 percent. Over several years, Clinton consistently has supported, and Obama has opposed, legislation to expand offshore oil drilling.
Oh. I forgot.
You are anti-Constitutional, anti-anti trust and anti-anti off shore drilling.

I am sure that you are also against women's civil rights issues as your arguments are anti-NARAL & Planned Parenthood.

Can you provide an argument based upon substance or are you just an empty sack of air?

"and Obama NOT voting for war is turning out to be RIGHT today"

This is hilarious. Obama did NOT vote against the war.

He was not even in the Senate at that time.

And before his anti-war speech in 2002, he said "Is this going to hurt me politically?

He is just a politican but his supporters don't even know anything about him. They blindly follow him like bleating sheep.

Urban Revolution,

You completely left out Senator Clinton's accomplishments.

"I was proud to help create the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) during the Clinton Administration, which today provides health insurance for six million children. In New York alone, almost 400,000 children benefit from CHIP every month. "

"After graduation, Hillary advised the Children's Defense Fund in Cambridge and joined the impeachment inquiry staff advising the Judiciary Committee of the House of Representatives."

"In 1978, President Jimmy Carter appointed her to the board of the Legal Services Corporation."

"She chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee, co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, and served on the boards of the Arkansas Children's Hospital, Legal Services, and the Children's Defense Fund. "

"Her 1996 book It Takes a Village and Other Lessons Children Teach Us was a best seller, and she received a Grammy Award for her recording of it. "

During law school she interned at the Children's Defense Fund.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/firstladies/hc42.html

Your post shows an extreme Obama bias, and lack of information about Clinton.

To: Janine in Texas
Well, you're living proof of a group who votes for Hillary - "uneducated" and "white woman." The rest of us get it.

Hillary's strategic game. She will do and say anything to win. It's her style.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr38lEfZ7oA&feature=related

I am beginning to develop a real problem with the Obama supporters who seem to be so obsessed with their candidate that anyone who doesn't see him as our personal savior is stupid. I also have a problem with the way they are attacking HRC. Honest policy discussions are fair the personal attacks are just plain ugly. We have two good candidates running for president. I happen to feel that HRC is the better of the two, although I have followed Obama and read his books and am inspired by his story. The bottom line is they are both much better than Bush, and this fighting and dragging through the mud we are doing only makes it more likely that we will have at least another 4 years of republican domination. Whoever wins I am planning on voting democrat in the fall, that is unless the Obama followers don't turn me completly off on him, in which case I guess I would just stay home.

Now wait a minute! Absudly, it seems Hillary xeroxed TWO passages, verbatim, into her "majestic" closing remarks. One was taken from an Edwards speech, and another extensivly from a Bill Clinton 2000 speech. Hillary actually said last night that we should watch Obama's "plagiarism" on Youtube. So to be fair, now let's watch two of hers that came mere minutes after her "Xerox" and Youtube comments:


http://youtube.com/watch?v=H60y8mHMpmU

My guess is her staff collects these xeroxes into grab bags and then forgets they are actually appropriated material. Sigh. I LIKE Hillary. But this is too absurd! Indeed, it IS "Silly Season!"

How can Hillary Clinton be a phony? She's devoted her life to helping people as a public servant. Saying she's a phony is just downright emotional hyped-up spin by those who are blinded by Obama's shiny X-factor star gleam. Watch out that the glare doesn't make you see double!

Hillary, for any of you that have more than half a decade of political memory, has been fighting for the underdog for years and years. She has grit, guts, determination, intelligence, fortitude, grace, and experience.

Obama can't even stop smoking! How's that for immature? "My wife gave me an ultimatum so I have to quit smoking."

If he can't even have the common sense to quit smoking and take care of himself, how can he be mature enough to take care of an entire nation?

My vote is for the classy lady. Sorry Obama. Your turn next time around when you're all grown up and we know you a little better.

lifting edwards line... afterwards edwards endorsements...
UNITE LATINOS AND ASIANS - HILLARY 08!

Hey all, I'd like to report that, after making hundreds and hundreds of calls for my Democratic candidate, most of the people I talk to are not nearly as divided as these blogs make it seem. They are knowledgeable and considerate, and are energized to vote for the Dem ticket no matter what.

I just don't get it. What stimulates the level of hostility here toward Hillary Clinton? I support her but I think Sen. Obama is a talented and intelligent public servant. I think he would be a good president. He'd learn as did JFK how to act as CIC. However, I believe Sen. Clinton is more knowlegeable, better prepared, and more mature in her understanding of the processes of politics and diplomacy. So I will vote for her. But I will be campaigning for Sen. Obama if he wins the nomination. The irrational anger and disrespect directed toward Sen. Clinton by many Obama supporters helps no one but John McCain and George Bush.

I'm European citizen from Brussels and followed the debate between clinton and obama.
Our opinion in Europe is that we have to close the links between Europe and USA.
Europe is not only Great Britain and Mr Blair.
We think that the USA have to start again a open politic with us "your traditional and natural friends" and that Mr Obama with a young and new approach is maby the leader wich is able to bring us again together in order to defend our common western values.

You pepole are brainwashed??? How can you say you didnt care for her last comment???? She cares about the american people and you all dont want that in a president? People say they vote for Obama because he cares so. Some just dont like Hillary and for no good reason. She did great last night and was very presidential! Obama is a JOKE JOKE JOKE!!!!!!!!! Some of his friends in Chicago helped in 25 bombings back in the 60s and were part of killing two police officers and you want that as your president? They only reason they got by is because of some mistake by the FBI doing something they shouldnt have but it doesnt change the fact that his close friend KILLED people just as terrorist do! Go ahead and vote for a canidate who befriends terrosist . IF YOU DO UR CRAZY!

OBAMA IS THE ANTI CHIRST........He can bring MANY together people fall at his feet almost. Halle Berry said she would pick up trash along his way to clear a path for him if she needed to??????? Come on people! Wake up!!!!!!!! If they world belives Obama should be our leader also even more evidence he is possibly the anti-chirst because the anti-christ will eventually lead all the world as one. He will be able to transend all odds! and will rise quickly....hmmm Obama has come out of no where.

ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT SAY OBAMA SUPPORTER ARE SO HARD ON CLINTON, WELL...IT GOES BOTH WAYS.

OBAMA THE ANTI CHRIST? WHAT A FREAKISH STATEMENT!

I HOPE PEOPLE FROM AROUND THE WORLD PASS ON THE GARBAGE HERE AND JUST READ RELEVANT POSTS.

NO WONDER WE LOOK LIKE SUCH UNEDUCATED IDIOTS FROM AFAR, YOU HAVE TO WEED THRU THE TRASH TO FIND ANY SUBSTANCE HERE AND AT MANY OTHER BLOGS.

Justin, I suggest you do a little checking up at more reliable sources. Most people won't respond to this stuff because well, sorry but the ignorance is intolerable to many. Where do you guys get this stuff! :) It's almost funny.

Obama was born in Aug 1961 here in Hawaii. He grew up here. He lived in Jakarta from ages 6 to 10 years old. (1967-1971). Then they moved back to hawaii where he attended Punahou school on a scholarship where he graduated. I have friends that knew him.

My friends tell me he was well liked in high school. They say he was funny and was known for his "smarts".

He did'nt move to Chicago until the mid 80's to take a job as a community organizer after a few years of college. By the way he turned down at least one high paying Wall street job to do public service stuff.

Just check up on some of the things you hear or read before you swallow dirt. Heres the Wiki on him... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

Please get your facts straight before you falsely accuse her of being anything more than the qualified, capable, brilliant, experienced, tested, strong, fighter that she is.

We simply do not have time for another inexperienced, unprepared President. We do not need someone who will be totally dependent on the advice of others when it comes to matters of the economy,foreign affairs, national security, or even a truly comprehensive health care plan for all Americans. If Obama is elected he will be a Democratic version of George Bush. When Bush doesn't know what to about problems he used to call Karl Rove. Who will Obama call? He will have to call someone because he does not have the knowledge or experience to arrive a the correct solutions on his own. Nor does he have the political knowledge, experience and wisdom to determine whether the suggestions that he may receive are the best ones to follow for the benefit of American interests at home or abroad.

Could America really be more sexist than racist? It appears that a clearly qualified woman is being pushed aside for a totally unqualified man. I wonder if the race would have turned out the same way that it has thus far if Obama were a black female and Hillary were a white male?
Answer: Of course not, an unqualified African American female would have been laughed out of the race by now. It seems that America willexcept any man over a qualified female and that's an even greater injustice.
Oh, and by the way, I am an African-American male that proudly supports Hillary based on her record,experience, and knowledge of what it takes to effect real and lasting CHANGE in the lives of all Americans. Millions of people in this country simply need HELP, not HOPE!

I think Obama has already lost the general election...no one - especially no undecided voter - wants to have a man with "HUSSEIN" as middle name in the white house when the alternative is a war veteran...

Obama is hot air...a media-darling this minute, gone the next...if he really was that intelligent he would have gone as clinton's vp this time and secured himself two terms in the white house that way...

To Justin who wrote, "it doesnt change the fact that his close friend KILLED people."

Now we're in silly season as Obama would say. This allegation is like Republicans saying that the Clintons got Vince Foster murdered. Please avoid such immature comments as they say more about the attacker than the attacked.

There are plenty of Obama fans who respect Hillary. But her attacks left a bad taste in many of our mouths and some of us have responded in kind. Again, our apologies to the Hillary supporters if some of us went too far.

Hillary will make a fine Secretary of State if her husband doesn't interfere. Maybe he can be made an Ambassador to Sweden thereby leaving her to do her job. But Swedish women may never forgive us. J.k.:)

Obama’s efforts to connect to the Republican Party, specifically Bush, and Dick Chaney, of the Halliburton Company, dates back to the Presidents Grandfather, Prescott Bush, and indeed Chaney was once an executive officer of Halliburton.

The American military pounds Iraq with Artillary, bombs, and the like, destroying large sections of cities, and infra-structures, then Halliburton comes in to rebuild. Halliburton and Halliburton associated companies have raked in ten’s of billions.

Obama is just like the BIG HALIBURTAN. Haliburton has contracted to build detention centers in the U.S. similiar to the one in Quantanammo Bay, Cuba. Halliburton does nothing to earn the Two Dollars for each meal an American Serviceman in Iraq eats.

http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/

Halliburton was scheduled to take control of the Dubai Ports in The United Arab Emiirate. The deal was canceled when Bush was unable to affect the transfer of the American Ports.

Now we see what some might suspect as similiar financial escapading from the Democrats.

Two years ago, Iraq’s Ministry of Electricity gave a $50 million contract to a start-up security company - Companion- owned by now-indicted businessman (TONY REZKO) Tony Rezko and a onetime Chicago cop, Daniel T. Frawley, to train Iraqi power-plant guards in the United States. An Iraqi leadership change left the deal in limbo. Now the company, Companion Security, is working to revive its contract.
Involved along with Antoin “Tony” Rezco, long time friend and neighbor of Democratic Presidential hopeful Barack Obama, and former cop Daniel T. Frawley, is Aiham Alsammarae. Alsammarae was accused of financial corruption by Iraqi authorities and jailed in Iraq last year before escaping and returning here.

LIKE FATHER LIKE SON --
Obama should be vetted and disclose his connection to the criminal money generating underworld. Besides, his connections to the REZCO MAFIA types, his up-coming tax fraud charges — Obama needs to disclose why he is a MUSLIM and stop suppoting our intervention in IRAQ. It’s time to introduce this false, fake Xerox - X box Obama and invite the self-indicting thief plagiarizing pipsqueke Xerox - X box to meet the Buffalo Police Department Buffalo Creek.

I find this article far from amusing to assume that Sen. Clinton's abstenance to answer whether she believed Obama was ready for office as a concession that he is. Sen. Clinton is ridiculed if she believes if he is ready or would be ridiculed if she didn't.

In the past when her campaign has stated that they do not think he is ready she was ridiculed by the public and the race card was pulled, however conceeding to say that he is ready shows a lack of confidence which no public wants in a leader for our nation.

I want to ask if any of you noticed when Obama was not fulfilling his duty to vote on bills in legislation because he was campaigning. However Sen Clinton was in legislation.

Sen. Clinton has been ridiculed on her failed universal health care plan in the past but it is awfully hard to point out flaws in Obamas career. Why is this you might ask? Some might say its his superior decision making skills. Although this may be an attribute of his I do not believe it is the reason in this instance. You must make decisions before you can defend them. You must take actions for them to succeed or fail. Senator Clinton has taken action in the past, you can learn from your mistakes.Obama however has not been in office long enough to see many of his decisions turn sour or plans fail.

As for Obamas campaign I find him an over zelous, ambitious young man. He plays to the poors spirit but takes money from the wealthy for funding. Meanwhile has anyone attempted to analyze his tax plans. It still benifits the upper middle class at best.

I believe Obama is a good spirited individual and I mean him no disrespect, but I simply do not think his experience is matured enough to lead the nation; especially through the projected hardships he will have to face. Next term Obama; please run again next term.

More than a few of Hillary's answers are subdued to a point where one wonders why she will not answer forthrightly saying the tough things that need to be acknowledged with respect to Obama and his experience.

Perhaps it's a woman's thing, and a desire not to be cruel, especially in public, where it could hurt both of them because women are not expected to be so blunt about the knowledge, or experience of men.

In the long run, it could be an asset to her rather than a detriment. But there were many women observers who were privately wishing she had the courage to just say it, and call his bluff. One must respect her choice not to as her own considered judgement call for whatever reason she chose not to answer that question, and allowed others to answer it in their own minds.