« The Republicans Choose A Conservative | Main | Tennessee, Too, Could Flummox Delegate Allocaters » West Virginia Intrigue05 Feb 2008 01:42 pm After the first round of balloting in West Virginia, Mitt Romney was solidly in the lead with 41% of the votes, followed by Mike Huckabee with 33% and John McCain with 16%. Since 50% is needed to win all 18 delegates, a second balloting is underway. But sources say that representatives for John McCain called many of his reps in WV and asked them to vote for Huckabee...in order to thwart Romney on the second ballot. TrackBackTrackBack URL for this entry: Listed below are links to weblogs that reference West Virginia Intrigue:
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» Huckabee Wins West Virginia from Liberty Pundit Comments (52)
CNN front page now says that Huckabee has won, presumably on the second ballot with McCain's aid. 
THis is INCREDIBLE.......How is this possible? ROmney won fair and square and Mccain is a slimy piece of crap
And that's exactly how this game is played by the pros.
Theocrats for the Huckster! Rapture 2012!!
Apparently St. McCain is incapable of base political maneuver? The fuller CNN story says the second-ballot count was H 52, R 47, M 1. This makes it completely obvious that the McCain forces switched to Huckabee as Marc reported they might, but CNN doesn't think this worthy of mention.
Rembember the Golden Rule...
I'm a little confused, maybe the Romney supporters can help me out -- you don't like it when the voters flip, but it is fine when your candidate does?
Rob, Do you have an example of that Rob to support your argument? Hmm, let's see? No, of course you don't.
How did the Master of Organization Mitt not have been prepared or forseen this VERY possible 1st round possibility? Does this genius not get how the rules work? I do hope he is the nominee though. Mittens destroyed the GOP in Mass and I suspect hat even as the GOP candidate he could do serious damage to the GOP nationally and for a long time.
Kaitian, are you seriously saying you need examples of Mitt Romney's flip-flopping on the issues? We in Massachusetts have tons of them: http://online.logcabin.org/mitt-romneys-flip-flops.html
Mittens is the King of flipping. He didn't want to go back to the Reagan Bush years, but now tries to wrap Ronnie's mantle around his neck. Hes would be better for gays than Ted Kennedy, Roe V Wade was settled law, and he didn't raise taxes, but raised fees. Was Governor of a state that he bad-mouthed on the road while still Governor... you need more?
haha! you McCainiacs think you have something huh? Everything he's done to win, all the blatant lies he's told and now the WV tomfoolery, is exactly why actual conservatives don't like him and is what most people hate about politicians. In other words, it's why McClaim is going to be swept away with ease in the general election.
Kaitian, Sure there are plenty. Here is a link for you to hear Romney in his own words in the 1994 Ted Kennedy debate -- (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9IJUkYUbvI). Romney was pro-choice, pro-gay rights, anti 2nd amendment and repeatedly said he did not want to return to "Reagan/Bush." This is your own guy saying this, not me.
Well now. This is intriquing. A vote for McCain is a vote for Romney. or is it that a vote for Hillary is a vote for Coulter? I get so confused. Maybe it is this: A vote for Huckabee is...... (drum roll everybody) a vote for Huckabee!
I love how Huck's people don't realize they are being used. Completely used. I can imagine Huck's message boards lighting up w/ posts like: "yes, McCain's supporters realized who the true conservative is" Ha ha, puppets. Sad really, the MSM's narrative concerning this group of evangelicals is spot-on. Their collective hubris will be the downfall of traditional conservatism.
Kaiten, What's a matter, does the cat have your tongue? Typical Romney supporter. Presumes the nomination belongs to Mitt and then whines, cries and picks up his toys and runs home when things don't go his way. Romeny = Multiple Choice Mitt
The McCain campers are a funny lot. How anyone can be attracted to his ghoulish nature and his steadfast adherence to obvious lies and gross hypocrisy is really inexplicable, but I will note that not only will McCain easily lose the general election, but before that it must be understood that he wouldn't be able to win or even be competitive in the Republican primary if it weren't for Mike Huckabee splitting enough conservatives from Romney to make way for McCain to slither through. Way to go Preacher Mike! Existing just to hand off the nomination to someone with liberal social views by denying victory to the guy who has conservative social values like you, out of spite and lust for power, what a christian you are!
Huck's people don't realize they are being used. Too soon to say. If Huck holds the balance of power at the convention (unlikely, but possible), then he can pretty well demand a VP slot - which, while not a great victory, is still something.
Actually Huckabee won fair and square. This was a convention, not a primary. All of you whining Romney jock supporters: Don't confuse the first ballot with a plebiscite. If you can't play the game, you ought not to suit up. Say goodbye to the tyranny of the base. The Republican party is moving to the center and away from the nitwitted fringe on the right that babble the talking points from Rush and Coulter and the other draft-dodging, pill-popping bigots that make their living in the beltway riling up people's insecurities and offering no solutions.
Sleazy on McCain's part. This isn't like picking a second choice because of non-viability; it's more like throwing the game. And it is likely to antagonize the right wing of the party even further.
dave, to quote Huck, it is quite "arrogant and presumptuous" to think that all of Huckabees voters would go to Mitt. Indeed, if the game is to think up hypotheticals as to why Romney is losing, the best is to imagine that no one else is running -- then we would get all the votes.
If this is an example of the way Mr. McCain "...reaches across the aisle", he won't get my respect or my vote. It smacks of smoke-filled, back-office dirty dealing.
Haha..love the fighting in the Republican Primary. Can't wait to defeat ya in the general!
The slime, lies, treachery and lack of integrity of Saint McCain (America's Greatest War Hero and Straight-Talker, just ask him!) are again on display, this time in West Virginia. This is the real guy, the one the Navy concluded lacked the moral fiber and character to be promoted to Admiral.
I truly don't understand the what all the fuss is about. In WV you have to have 50% to win. No candiate reached 50%, with Romney getting 41%. In other words, nothing counted! Someone HAD to switch their vote. If 9% had switched over to Romney, why wouldn't they be engaging in this so-called "smoke-filled, back office dirty dealing." Curb the emotion and think logically.
Does anyone doubt that the fix is in? Huckster for VP? How can anyone think that McCain is going to be honorable in this race when he stacks the deck so that Romney would lose? The only time McCain will ever reach across the aisle is when he tries to take another punch at a Republican. Smacks of smoke-filled, back office dirty dealing? After the Shamnesty Bill, is there any doubt that is McCain's style?
This same type of farce has already taken place in Iowa, Florida and again in other southern states where 'Huckster' is only in the running to help McCain win. The problem with this type of collusion that the 'pros' use is that it marginalizes the votes of the voters who thought that 'Huckster' was really in it to win. He never was. He joined that race in Iowa for the explicit purpose of beating Romney for McCain because McCain didn't have a chance there.
Rob....the difference is that if 'Huckster' was not in the primaries (which he shouldn't be because he doesn't have a chance) then Romney would have most likely received most of the votes that went for Huckabee. Hardly any of those votes would have gone to McCain. This marginalizes citizens' votes. Do you really think that the people voting for McCain would have changed their votes and voted for Huckabee...or vice versa? No. That is why McCain found 'Flunkabee' to dilute the Republican base voters away from Romney.
"Shamnesty" -- tough word. Here is how Mitt discussed the MCCain bill and "amnesty" during an interview with the Boston Globe. "That's very different than amnesty, where you literally say, 'OK, everybody here gets to stay,' " Romney said in the interview. "It's saying you could work your way into becoming a legal resident of the country by working here without taking benefits and then applying and then paying a fine." Romney also said in the interview that it was not "practical or economic for the country" to deport the estimated 12 million immigrants living in the US illegally. "These people contribute in many cases to our economy and to our society," he said. "In some cases, they do not. But that's a whole group we're going to have to determine how to deal with." Talk about a sham.
Hello ... it's a Caucus! These types of deals are what happen in a Caucus. Caucuses are designed to bring about a consensus candidate; that means you have to work hard at being the "second choice" of your opponents' supporters. In West Virginia, that consensus candidate was Huckabee. Romney couldn't get to 50%, and it seems like he was nobody's second choice. That's his problem. Everybody knows the rules going in, and there's nothing illegal or unethical about it.
A vote for Huckabee is a vote for McCain.
Elections are now a "farce." Funny how Romney supporters champion democracy when Romney uses his personal fortune in an attempt to buy the presidency. (See, eg, Corzine, Bloomberg). Votes are not "marginalized" because there are multiple candidates. The real issue of democracy arises in the choice of candiates, which are actually minimized because of the money involved. This allows guys like Mitt to "make" a name for themselves. Moreover, there are a large block of voters who do not like Romney based on integrity issues, rather than policy. No one can calculate with certainty where they would break. It makes no sense to sit here and play the "what if" game. If you are a strong candidate, you should be able to get the nomination.
Remember Caucus Rules.... He didn't because Huckabee decided to stay in the race and continue aiding McCain...
Uhh Rob, we're talking on the issues of this election. I asked you to cite an example and you give me the video of the 1994 election on the issue of Abortion which is the #10 issue with conservative Republicans which is never going to change with any President. Conservatives knows that. Chris, Cat got my tongue? Pardon me if I don't respond right away to Rob's strawman attack as you wanted me to.
There was a back-room agreement made between the convention goers and McCain. "McCain delegate John Vuolo said former Louisiana Gov. Buddy Roemer approached him and other McCain supporters at the convention and told them he had spoken to McCain, and that the best thing to do was to support Huckabee in the hope that Huckabee could beat Romney in this winner-take-all state." Especially Huckabee promised to give Ron Paul 3 delegates in order to gain their votes.
Perot also used his personal fortune to run his campaign. That is because he was successful enough to do so. It also makes him less likely to succumb to special interest groups that buy candidates with campaign donations. I'm sure this worries the power brokers in Washington. God forbid we have a President with a mind of his own. BTW..there is no 'what if' here.
Kaitian, not sure what you are looking for. I guess abortion is no longer an issue (??). If you want his flip on immigration see my earlier post. You would do well to read Chris' link on Romney's flips, which relate to many other issues.
Over at National Review, one of McCain's more ill-tempered opponents, Mark Krikorian, wrote a post advising conservatives to vote tactically to stop McCain. In other words, in states like Alabama and Missouri where it's between McCain and Huckabee, conservatives should vote for Huckabee to stop McCain. Now we hear the "conservatives" whining and crying that McCain advised his supporters in West Virginia to do the same thing to stop Romney. Cry me a river.
Geez....is Mark Krikorian on the Romney campaign team? Don't think so. Also, Romney is on the ballot in those states so how would a vote for Huckabee stop McCain....seems like Mark K is trying to pull a quick one on ill informed Huckabee supporters....is this really not very obvious?
As an aside, Huckabee cut a deal with Ron Paul and gave him 3 delegates to pledge his 10%. Ron took the deal and came in 2nd in WV delegates: Ron can play politics. As far as the rest of them, "there's not a dime's worth of difference between" Republicans and Democrats. The Democrats willingly went along with the War in Iraq, suspension of Habeas Corpus, banning books like America Deceived (book) from Amazon, warrant-less wiretapping and refusing to investigate 9/11 properly. They are both guilty of treason.
Rob, please advise me what state you live in. If you think that illegals are not problem, as they once were NOT in Romney's states, then we Texans would be more than happy to send a few to your state so they can drain your economic system. Texas has an approximately 2 million. How many would you like? And then, like anyone one who is trying to prove a point, you provide no source for your Romney "quotes". Is there any doubt that the Huckster should have gotten out? No. But of course, in his mind, this is class warfare. The poor working stiff against the evil rich guy who happens to be successful. Nevermind that the poor working stiff was too busy spending his money on big screen TVs instead of college tuition. So all the whining about Romney's money makes me think that people who are doing the whining are really closet socialists. Why not just support HillBilly/Obama and be done with it?
This all begs the question of who would have won a fair third round between Romney/Huckabee. McCain must have thought Romney would win that showdown, which is why he made all his people switch in the second round. It's like a 3rd down punt, which caught the Huckabee voters flat-footed. Personally, I don't see how Huckabee or his supporters can sleep at night. They are just being 'useful idiots' for McCain.
What a hoot if Huckabee costs McCain the nomination. What goes around comes around, they say.
Here is the problem... If Huckabee is actually running for VP, that is fine. He is free to do that. But in claiming a moral credential through the wearing of his religion on his sleeve then he needs to be honest about it. When the truth comes out about what deals were made and when they were made he will be tainted and so will the morality that any of us claim is influenced by our religious beliefs. Obviously the McCain camp sees Romney as the one they need to compete against. Huckabee is either not a factor due to a deal already made or because they know he simply cannot win the nomination or the general. Romney and Paul are the only candidates that have had to compete against the entire pack. Paul is a nice guy and has something important to say but his votes are now also starting to partially obscure the true decision making process for the party.
David.....I couldn't have said it better myself...well done!
retire05, FYI, I responded to your post but Atlantic has held the posting for review. Not sure why, nothing bad in there.
I am a registered independent with no party affiliation or candidate preference. I am not particularly fond of Mitt or McCain. So, Mitt followers--listen up...Mc Cain's supporters were just utilizing the rules as they were written in West Virginia. They played the system better than the Mitt followers, plain and simple--so stop the whining.
Erik, nicely said. Unfortunately, they wont listen.
I fail to understand how it makes sense to blame McCain for Huckabee supporters not voting for Romney. Or Huckabee either for that matter. The only people to blame for Huckabee getting votes are Huckabee supporters. Huckabee is chasing the Christian social conservative vote; a need that Romney doesn't legitimately fill, with his history of changing opinions more frequently than Giuliani mentions 9/11. You can't blame religious conservatives for seeing through that.
"Under the Rules" Erik - You can point to "rules" saying that conspiracies don't violate Party Rules, but that is pretty much beside the point. Even the sleaziest Democrats REFUSED to throw their committed IOWA caucus goers to another candidate in hopes of damaging another rival. Even Edwards ethics soared above "Mr Straightalker" and Mr Theocrat collaborating to help thwart McCain's national rival. Yes, Erik, it was legal under the "rules of the game"!! But this is all about a crowd of Fundies that hate Mormons like they hate Jews and Catholics and willing to work with a treacherous Senator to "tag-team" the Cult Member in return for a VP slot and various appointments. Pity those bigoted Fundies led by Huckabee will soon learn they say "Treacherous, backstabbing Senator" for a reason. Even McCain will not want a cartoon pair: "Quickdraw McCain and his Deputy Huckleberry Hound." Huck gets his peckerwood butt schmootched day in and day out by handlers McCain's people will put in the rube's camp up until the nomination, or Huck helps finish off the Conservative Rep choice - but there will be no VP offer.
I think that you people keep missing all the issues, all of you are blinded buy "The Light"... Seemingly enough you think if you vote in a fellow bible banger that life will go smoothly for you. Let me remind you of the Golden Age, You see the Catholics deemed Christian's as a heathen form of religion, thus creating the great force into what is now called the USA. Oh and lets not froget all the innocent men and women that were murdered by their brethren and accused of witchcraft. The fact is people died to come to america and have freedom of religion, and that is why the Constitution has a sepertaion of church and state. However all the right wing'd nuts seem to think that forcing Christianity do everyones throats will get you in office. Prodistens don't believe what Church of God Believes, and Baptists don't have the same Christian view that Mormans do. Men have no rights putting their noses in a womans personal business, and they really have no right in telling us what to do with our bodies. Until we can force men to casterate themselves for deviant behavior, leave woman's wombs out of the business end.
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How many votes for Ron Paul? Looks like 10% left over, about what he had going in....
Posted by Craig | February 5, 2008 2:27 PM