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Clinton Donors Circulate Florida/Michigan Petition

27 Mar 2008 02:56 pm

A member of Hillary Clinton's national finance team has started to circulate an online petititon that urges the Democratic National Committee to recognize the delegations from Michigan and Florida or else promise to hold new elections.

The petition, entitled "A Declaration of Fairness," was written by Michael Kempner, a PR exec in New Jersey and a major fundraiser for Hillary Clinton.

Kempner said that the genesis for the idea came out of a meeting of the campaign's finance committee a few weeks ago but said that the effort is being run independently from the Clinton campaign.

The resolution notes that the undersigners include "many leaders and financial supporters" of the DNC. (There are only 20 undersigners at the moment, so that sentence is probably projective.)

Kempner said he sent the petition to thousands of Democratic donors and activists. In his e-mail to them, he calls Obama's "tactics" in "seeking to disenfranchise more than two million voters in Florida and Michigan" those of "division and deception."

"For whatever reason, the DNC seems to be captive of the Obama campaign," he said in an interview. "The fact is that many, many long-time supporters both financially and non-financially, that have a very different point of view. We very much want to put them on notice."

Kempner said that the petititon's language should not be interpreted by DNC chairman Howard Dean as a threat to withhold donations. But, he said, "We want the chairman to exercise some leadership."

Comments (72)

It seems to me that when Obama's team sank the Michigan primary their reasoning was that it was unfair not to allow people who had voted in the Republican primary to vote in the new Democratic primary.

The recent ruling now makes it impossible to verify who voted where.

So it seems Obama's main objection has dissapeared. So why not get behind a new primary Senator?

No.

Great idea! Online petitions are always successful!

First, Hillary signed onto the ban on the too-early Florida and Michigan primaries; then she violated the bans to which she had signed; and now she demands that the results of those elections be made retroactively legal or else that her campaign will impose rules for new primaries in those two states. She's like George W. Bush was about WMD in Iraq.

Signed. But as First Name: Billary Last Name: Lost E-mail: itsover@haha.com

This is laughable on so many levels. Hillary cares about the voters of FL and MI, unless they vote against her, in which case she will ask the superdelegates to disenfranchise them.

By the way, it's hard to describe how tedious this has become. Barack Obama is the presumptive nominee. The Democratic Primary, as much as some people are doing their best to prolong it, is over. It's done. Obama v. McCain.

Wow, another threat. My knees are shaking.

First of all, the DNC does not hold the elections, the individual states do.

Secondly, the DNC has stated all along that it has no problem holding new elections.

Thirdly, Obama has also voiced willingness to go along with any election approved by the DNC.

Fourthly, since the MI election was basically ruled invalid in court, you can't seat those delegates with any alignmnet. Of couyrse, MI delegates can and probably will be seated, but without being able to vote in the nominating process itself.

BTW, he says it is not a threat, but then uses the phrase "put them (the DNC) on notice."

Are these people really that dumb. First they threAten Pelosi, now Dean and the DNC.

They are going to push superdelegates over the edge to supporting Obama sooner rather than later.

These guys are about a month late.

Fellas, no one's scared of you anymore. You no longer own the party. Ha, ha. Now go away.

This is laughable on so many levels. Hillary cares about the voters of FL and MI, unless they vote against her, in which case she will ask the superdelegates to disenfranchise them.

Bingo. Far be it from our esteemed fourth estate to report this obvious fact.

While Hillary tries to find a way around the rules, Obama continues to play by them, racking up another major endorsement - this time from the Indiana State Legislature!

The Indianapolis Star reports...

A group of state legislators from every corner of Indiana today endorsed Sen. Barack Obama for president.

Thirteen of the 25 lawmakers backing Obama held a Statehouse news conference to urge Hoosiers to support Obama in the May 6 primary election.

"There, you've had it," Sen. Earline Rogers, a Gary Democrat, said after the lawmakers spoke. "Indiana, north, south, east, west, middle. Black, white, Hispanic. Urban, rural. We cross all of these spectrum. And with those kinds of demographics that Indiana possesses, those are precisely the democgraphics that will make Barack Obama the next president of the United States.

is this good PR? Is this really what people want to be reading about? Big-shot Clinton donors making new demands each day? Give me a break.

I can't believe she keeps banging this drum. She doesn't give two shits about "voter disenfranchisement", as evidenced by her SUPPORTING the stripping of these two states' delegates from the get-go. She's probably more likely to admit she made a bad decision on this than she is on her Iraq war vote.

What she's really angling for isn't even the delegates, although she certainly wouldn't refuse them; she's angling for the fund-raising boost this would provide. Her campaign is slowly bleeding to death.

ha ha ha read the signatures.
They haven't even tried rudimentary security on the petition. As one of the signers put it.. there is nothing that her campain can do right.

pejo - I love how about half of the seemingly legitimate signatures are from NY/NJ.

I was the Barry Goldwater - It's Over guy, btw.

Time for a viral web video that stitches together all of Clinton's contradictory statements about Michigan and Florida, from of they won't count to I made the right decision to leave my name on the ballot to I won to let's revote to it is Obama's fault.

Then another web video that stitches together all the different voices Clinton lost and found, from her bad Southern accent last April in Selma to finding her voice in NH to I'm proud to be in this race with Obama to shame, shame, shame......

and end it all with the I mis-spoke it was a mis-statement I say millions of words every day and I am sleep deprived.

The fact that she is allowed by the Democratic Party to remain in the race is a disgraceful thing.

I recall a president making the case for war by saying a certain country did not abide by an agreement they had signed. This is a war Clinton supported. We find ourselves in a similar situation now. Hillary agreed to discount the votes of Michigan and Florida, even signed an agreement to that effect, but now acts contrary to what she initially agreed to. There is something funny in all this, if not downright ironic...

joie shmoe - I think that's a good idea with the video. Specifically using that NPR interview soundbyte.

But people are going to be bitter if Obama gets the nomination because the super-delegates neuter Clinton's campaign. She knows this, so she stays in as long as she has cash.

Obama either needs to beat her in the May 6th model people have proposed (I think it was tying her in supers and then locking up the mathematical majority in pledged delegates), or by having super-delegates trickle their way towards Obama until they outnumber hers (especially her own superdelegates leaving her for Obama), or by Clinton dropping out altogether. Unless one of those things happen, her supporters are going to complain.

Really, we should be more angry with the supers that stick with her than the ones that are uncommitted. Their continued support is an endorsement of her destructive actions.

Who gives a fuck what these losers want? It's over. Obama is the nominee.

So this "online petition" is totally unsecured? These people are beyond incompetent.

Stop pretending it's 1992.

Not even flood protection on the petition? Hilarious. You lost. Move on, already!

I sincerely think Monica Lewinsky would make a better president than Hillary because Monica spent more time with the the president than Hillary. This is not coming from me...Its from Hillary itself because she counts all the time she spent close to the president count as presidential experience.

lol at the signatures.

First of all. I know Obama supporters are thanking their lucky stars about Fla & Michigan.
But people, come on - WAKE UP FROM THE OBAMA TRANCE! Very simpley, Hillary is the best candidate. Understand something, the ONLY reason he is ahead is because he got all the black votes of voters who only voted BECAUSE he's black. A large percentage of them have not even voted before. Are you all blind or just idiots?

Have some coffee, sober up and vote for Hillary.
Because quite frankly, Growing up and helping the community on the streets of Chicago is not enough experience to run our Country. Oh and by the way - Salute the Flag Obama. That's the least you can do for the Country you want to run!

obamatons are funny.

They've started deleting entries, but someone is bombing it with entries that are threatening, which sucks... I liked snarky entries.

Ah, so of course those of us who vote for Senator Obama are only doing for racial reasons is what you seem to be saying Miriam.

Weak.

Sorry, I am one of those independant voters who happens to like both Senator Obama and Senator McCain. Before this primary I had no particular feelings for or against Senator Clinton. However, after the way she has run her campaign and the blatant lies about the Bosnia thing, there is no way in all the world that I could vote for her.

Right now I will vote for Senator Obama because I believe he is an intelligent thinking candidate. Even on those areas which I disagree with him, the way he comes to his conclusions is reasonable. Which indicates to me that reason can be used to change his mind as the facts on the ground change.

Senator Clinton refuses to admit an error unless her face is smeared with it. She never admitted an error on the Bosnia 'recollection' until CBS finally put out the actual film of the 'sniper fire' she supposedly went through.

Wake up Miriam. Senator Clinton is a liar. We have had enough of that over the past seven years haven't we?

Holy shit, thank you Miriam Planas! I had not heard such a compelling and authoritative argument for Hillary! What have I been doing all along? How silly of me to have been turned off by her vitriolic political life, her and her husband's Corporate Democrat tendencies, her vote for the war, her inability to fess up to her mistakes and out-right lies, her tendency to lie for political gain, the arm-twisting by her big-money supporters, and the knowledge that nothing gets GOPers more active and more likely to influence down-ticket results than a Clinton name on the ballot?

As Obama gained momentum, what I consider Hillary's true colors started to show. On Monday March 24th, CNN's Jack Cafferty asked this, "Which of the two Democratic campaigns, Clinton or Obama, occupies the moral high ground?"

Barack Obama is the hands down winner in the moral high ground game. Hillary only played an inning or two before calling in the mud-slinging relief pitchers. Barack dodged many wild, "kitchen-sinkers" before he had to start swinging away just to keep from being chased out of the batter's box. But just when you hope the DNC league commissioner could convince co-captains Bill and Hillary to keep the rest of their embellishment and entitlement players in the bullpen, they send in more scorched-earth pitchers from the dugout, like Geraldine Ferraro, James Carville and now Michael Kempner. Neither of these players can exhibit the graciousness of defeat.

Today's Clintons are examples of everything we abhor about years of dirty Republican politics and the vast right wing conspiracy. The Clintons have become their own "culture of corruption" - or at least a culture of whining, self-exaggeration and embellishment, entitlement, lying and scorched-earth politics. I am disgusted.

Originally Hillary said that "Michigan and Florida don't count" but now demands that the disenfranchised be counted. I've read the Detroit News, the Michigan legislature did it to themselves by moving up the primary and then failing to find a redo resolution. Barack Obama was not on the decision making panel with Carl Levin, Carolyn Kilpatrick, Debbie Dingell and Ron Gettelfinger. If these four, plus the senate majority leader and minority leader can't get it done, there's no revote. Tell Hillary to get over it!

Hillary claims responsibility for foreign affair accomplishments while the facts say otherwise. She claims a dangerous trip to Bosnia that was anything but. She is... lying. This is not the politics of the future. This is not what has motivated so many young voters to get involved. This is not what has brought Democratic and Independent voters out of apathy and into the voting booth. This is the dirty politics of the past, the politics of Republicans. This is what people have grown to hate about Washington.

Does anyone besides Bill Richardson have the strength to tell the Clintons they are NOT entitled and their scorched-earth politics have no place in a new America?

If the voters in Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Indiana do not hand Hillary a MAJOR victory in all three states... IT IS OVER! Move on. Support the party that has been so good to you for so many years. Help put a Democrat in the White House.

Gosh, Miriam, and all this time I thought I was voting for Obama because of his incredible intelligence, his ability to remain calm under fire (figurative fire from the Clintons, not imaginary fire from "snipers"), his ability to reach out to others without triangulating, etc., etc. And now I see it's because he's black. But wait . . . I'm white. So how does that work? And gee, I'm a woman. That's right, I'm supposed to follow Hillary like a lemming simply because she's a woman, even though I disagree with her vote on the war, with the way she's run her campaign (into debt, and into darkness), and with a lot of other things. Darn, now I don't know how to vote!!

Huummm, TWENTY seems to be a magic number here!!!

Are those 20 fundraisers the same as the ones who sent that letter to Senator Pelosi? I mean, I wouldn't be surprised.

The battle in the democratic party is reaching another level of insanity.

is this good PR? Is this really what people want to be reading about? Big-shot Clinton donors making new demands each day? --direwolfc

Well, I'm enjoying it. Now I can hope that Bill will chime in and make some threats, preferably while shaking his finger.

Why don't they send those petitions to the respective state legislatures? The Florida state legislature said emphatically that they won't have another vote. And Michigan has now said that they won't either. And the Michigan vote from January cannot possibly be seated now because a judge ruled the election unconstitional. I think these folks are barking up the wrong tree and just trying to make political hay.

DON'T BE DUPED !!!

Large numbers of Republicans have been voting for Barack Obama in the DEMOCRATIC primaries, and caucuses from early on. Because they feel he would be a weaker opponent against John McCain. And because they feel that a Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama ticket would be unbeatable. And also because with a Clinton and Obama ticket you are almost 100% certain to get quality, affordable universal health care very soon.

But first, all of you have to make certain that Hillary Clinton takes the democratic nomination and then the Whitehouse. NOW! is the time. THIS! is the moment you have all been working, and waiting for. You can do this America. "Carpe diem" (harvest the day).

I think Hillary Clinton see's a beautiful world of plenty for all. She is a woman, and a mother. And it's time America. Do this for your-selves, and your children's future. You will have to work together on this and be aggressive, relentless, and creative. Americans face an even worse catastrophe ahead than the one you are living through now.

You see, the medical and insurance industry mostly support the republicans with the money they ripped off from you. And they don't want you to have quality, affordable universal health care. They want to be able to continue to rip you off, and kill you and your children by continuing to deny you life saving medical care that you have already paid for. So they can continue to make more immoral profits for them-selves.

Hillary Clinton has actually won by much larger margins than the vote totals showed. And lost by much smaller vote margins than the vote totals showed. Her delegate count is actually much higher than it shows. And higher than Obama's. She also leads in the electoral college numbers that you must win to become President in the November national election. HILLARY CLINTON IS ALREADY THE TRUE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE!

As much as 30% of Obama's primary, and caucus votes are Republicans trying to choose the weakest democratic candidate for McCain to run against. These Republicans have been gaming the caucuses where it is easier to vote cheat. This is why Obama has not been able to win the BIG! states primaries. Even with Republican vote cheating help.

Hillary Clinton has been out manned, out gunned, and out spent 2 and 3 to 1. Yet Obama has only been able to manage a very tenuous, and questionable tie with Hillary Clinton.

If Obama is the democratic nominee for the national election in November he will be slaughtered. Because the Republican vote cheating help will suddenly evaporate. All of this vote fraud and republican manipulation has made Obama falsely look like a much stronger candidate than he really is. YOUNG PEOPLE. DON'T BE DUPED! Think about it. You have the most to lose.

The democratic party needs to fix this outrage. I suggest a Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama ticket. Everyone needs to throw all your support to Hillary Clinton NOW! So you can end this outrage against YOU the voter, and against democracy.

I think Barack Obama has a once in a life time chance to make the ultimate historic gesture for unity, and change in America by accepting Hillary Clinton's offer as running mate. Such an act now would for ever seal Barack Obama's place at the top of the list of Americas all time great leaders, and unifiers for all of history.

The democratic party, and the super-delegates have a decision to make. Are the democrats, and the democratic party going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee to fight for the American people. Or are the republicans going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee through vote fraud, and gaming the DEMOCRATIC party primaries, and caucuses.

Fortunately the Clinton's have been able to hold on against this fraudulent outrage with those repeated dramatic comebacks of Hillary Clinton's. Only the Clinton's are that resourceful, and strong. Hillary Clinton is your NOMINEE. They are the best I have ever seen.

"This is not a game" (Hillary Clinton)

Sincerely

jacksmith...

This is ridiculous. The states broke the rules, the states are refusing to hold revotes which the DNC very generously offered to legitimize despite the states having broken the rules, and the DNC is being blamed? Buy a brain, Mr Kempner.

Florida and Michigan couldn't be bothered with following the parties clear rules for a party nominating process and all campaigns except HRC's removed their names from the ballots, and all campaigns refused to launch primary campaigns in those states. Now that HRC's campaign sees the writing on the wall they want to change the rules for these two "very special" states, and in order to improve their initiative they got their big money donors (limited to what $2200 each per cycle) to do a web petition? Are these people also going to use their bank accounts to help deposed Nigerian generals get their money out of the country or to get a free i-pod from Bill Gates? Stop the innanity!

"Oh, please, please, please count them! Please! Even though we agreed they wouldn't count... we were just kidding! Yeah, that's the ticket!"

I'll vote for Senator Clinton this November if she's the Democratic candidate, but I've found the behavior of her campaign to this point pretty appalling.

the ONLY reason he is ahead is because he got all the black votes of voters who only voted BECAUSE he's black. A large percentage of them have not even voted before. Are you all blind or just idiots?

Posted by Miriam Planas | March 27, 2008 4:35 PM


This is the most ridiculously racist thing I have read in a long time. Do Black voters votes not count as much as anyone elses? How much should the vote of one Black voter count then Miriam? Perhaps 3/5's of a White voter then?

Obama is winning because he got the most votes of all Americans who voted in the Democratic primaries and caucuses and won the most delegates. It is as simple as that.

And you know what's funny? Obama was not actually winning among Blacks until the Clinton campaign went race baiting. And that was with another Black person in the race. Did you notice how Clinton has more Black Superdelegates than Obama? Why didn't they side with Obama just because he was Black?

And believe me, the race baiting started well before South Carolina. Like when Hillary said it was "a historical fact" that Hispanics won't vote for Blacks. That was well before South Carolina. Then Hillary did that crap with MLK and LBJ, right around MLK day I might add. You think Blacks did not notice? Then Bill stepped into the mix and called the Obama campaign a "fairy tale", which got him slapped back down by very famous Black political leaders like Clyburn. Then after the South Carolina, he tried to marginalize Obama's win calling him a Jesse Jackson and then a Clinton staffer was quoted in the NY Times saying that the Clinton campaign was glad that Obama "is now the Black candidate".

So you wonder, when Black people were supporting Clinton over Obama until that point, it was pretty clear that the Clitons decided that they were going to purposefully alienate their most loyal supporters using the most disgusting of tactics and now you wonder why Blacks increasingly and increasingly are refusing to vote for her? It is not about the race of Obama honey (although that doesn't hurt), as I mentioned before, Blacks were more than willing to support them when Obama was in the race. It is solely and surely 100% about the disgusting and offensive campaign that they decided to run.

A vote for Obama is a vote for McCain.

McCain will take Florida and undoubtedly take Michigan, so who cares. In the general election Obama will take CA, NY, CN, MA, RI. The rest is McCain's.

I'm starting to like the idea of McCain. He's not so bad.

After reading all the malarkey in this thread I have only one thing to say. The DNC and every court that has seen a civil case. At least one appeal from both states has been presented and the higher courts have upheld the the original rulings, and came to the same conclusion. YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE RULES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME! MI and FL broke the rules and now they're paying the price.


Hey Mark, Since you are seemingly fair I submit this report to you. It included a photo and in my mind-explains Hillary's gaffe. Perhaps you would check it out and report if it is as accurate as I think it is. PS Read the accounts of both days.


Maybe she was thinking about this day at Camp Bedrock when she misspoke about something that happened 10 years ago:


But the highlight of her trip were visits to two fortified posts outside the U.S. base in Tuzla. Even President Clinton, restricted to the base by bad weather in January, did not see as much of this war-wracked region as Mrs. Clinton did Monday.
...
Riflemen rushed to the brush line as the helicopter landed and surrounded her as she walked into the post. Located in a "separation zone," the U.S. outpost nestles between two tree lines. Just months ago, one was Serbian territory, the other Bosnian.

Security was tight - fighter jets accompanied her C-17 cargo plane to Tuzla - but officials said the first lady took no extraordinary risks on the trip.
Lexis - By RON FOURNIER, Associated Press, March 25, 1996

=
First Lady of the United States, Hillary Clinton, visited her country's troops at their fortified outposts in north-eastern Bosnia today and said their peacekeeping work was "extraordinary to behold".
Mrs Clinton's helicopter flight to Camp Alicia, home of a mechanised infantry outfit and a combat engineer batallion 15 miles east of Tuzla, took her over burned out villages and farm houses whose roofs had been blown off in the fierce fighting before last December's Paris peace agreement ended the 43 -month-old war in Bosnia.

A machine gun emplacement guarded the entrance of the outposts and marked Bosnian minefields were visible outside its perimeter.
...
After lunch with the troops in a makeshift dining hall surrounded by sandbags, she flew on to Camp Bedrock south of Tuzla to visit an army field hospital.

Mrs Clinton, who later returned to Tuzla for a show starring singer Sheryl Crow and comedian Sinbad, said she was "amazed at how much has been accomplished in such a short period of time" by US troops in Bosnia.
Source - Lexis - The Herald (Glasgow), March 26, 1996


Hey Mark, Since you are seemingly fair I submit this report to you. It included a photo and in my mind-explains Hillary's gaffe. Perhaps you would check it out and report if it is as accurate as I think it is. PS Read the accounts of both days.


Maybe she was thinking about this day at Camp Bedrock when she misspoke about something that happened 10 years ago:


But the highlight of her trip were visits to two fortified posts outside the U.S. base in Tuzla. Even President Clinton, restricted to the base by bad weather in January, did not see as much of this war-wracked region as Mrs. Clinton did Monday.
...
Riflemen rushed to the brush line as the helicopter landed and surrounded her as she walked into the post. Located in a "separation zone," the U.S. outpost nestles between two tree lines. Just months ago, one was Serbian territory, the other Bosnian.

Security was tight - fighter jets accompanied her C-17 cargo plane to Tuzla - but officials said the first lady took no extraordinary risks on the trip.
Lexis - By RON FOURNIER, Associated Press, March 25, 1996

=
First Lady of the United States, Hillary Clinton, visited her country's troops at their fortified outposts in north-eastern Bosnia today and said their peacekeeping work was "extraordinary to behold".
Mrs Clinton's helicopter flight to Camp Alicia, home of a mechanised infantry outfit and a combat engineer batallion 15 miles east of Tuzla, took her over burned out villages and farm houses whose roofs had been blown off in the fierce fighting before last December's Paris peace agreement ended the 43 -month-old war in Bosnia.

A machine gun emplacement guarded the entrance of the outposts and marked Bosnian minefields were visible outside its perimeter.
...
After lunch with the troops in a makeshift dining hall surrounded by sandbags, she flew on to Camp Bedrock south of Tuzla to visit an army field hospital.

Mrs Clinton, who later returned to Tuzla for a show starring singer Sheryl Crow and comedian Sinbad, said she was "amazed at how much has been accomplished in such a short period of time" by US troops in Bosnia.
Source - Lexis - The Herald (Glasgow), March 26, 1996

Florida and Michigan will not be the ones to pay the price for "breaking the rules" -- the Democrats will. Florida and Michigan, will give it to the Republicans.

They'll remember Obambi. I can see him now wagging his finger at the Floridians. "You sinned. You had to be punished. It was for your own good."

Yup, we better start getting used to President McCain. Has a nice ring to it, doesn't it?

Hey Jack Smith, are you on drugs? b/c you wrote:

Hillary Clinton has actually won by much larger margins than the vote totals showed. And lost by much smaller vote margins than the vote totals showed. Her delegate count is actually much higher than it shows. And higher than Obama's.

...and EVERYONE knows that this is not true. And it's idiotic, what does it even mean?

Obama would never accept a VP offer from Hillary--why should he, he's WINNING! Perhaps you should be on all the pro-hillary blogs trying to convince her supporters to stop being selfish and bitter and to support the nominee regardless.

And for everyone who has made and continues to make the argument that the only reason black people vote for Obama is because he's black then why don't we start to survey all the WOMEN who support Hillary for no other reason than that they are WOMEN. Stop being ridiculous.

And bravo to this group sending around this petition--it's only making the grass-root effort stronger because nothing irritates us more than jerks with money who think they can buy the game by deciding the rules.

Hillary Clinton's positive rating has dropped to a new low of 37 percent in an NBC/Wall Street Journal poll released on Wednesday. John McCain has an open field and his approval ratings continue to climb. McCain's team is fresh and gearing up for the race to Nov. Barack and Hillary's campaign staffs are in danger of burning out before the general race even starts. The Democrat leaders have a choice to saddle up with Bill and Hillary and let this bloodbath continue or saddle up and take on McCain and his team as a unified Democrat Party. Hillary has a 5 percent chance of winning the Democrat Nomination, and according to her own pollster she has to go even more negative. We already see this happening. Is this war worth it?

Just because half of the Democrats like Obama, it doesn't mean any Republicans like him.

When he comes against the Republican machine, he is not going to be able to cry foul at every negative statement directed at him, because there will be no one to listen to him. He's bringing plenty of baggage to the General Election, plus absolutely no experience. How do you think that's going to play in Peoria?

Just because half of the Democrats like Obama, it doesn't mean any Republicans like him.

When he comes against the Republican machine, he is not going to be able to cry foul at every negative statement directed at him, because there will be no one to listen to him. He's bringing plenty of baggage to the General Election, plus absolutely no experience. How do you think that's going to play in Peoria?

There have been dozens of these partitions for months! If you put all the names that have been in those partitions onto one list you would have millions and millions of names of voters the DNC can count on voting against them in November if they do not seat those delegates. Yes they are all the residents of Florida and Michigan and all of Hillary Clinton's supporters and John Edwards supporters. About the only two groups not on those list are McCain supporters and Obama Supporters. We have all been emailing the DNC for months letting them know..don't seat don't plan on a November victory. Don't seat..no money! Hillary is the only one we will vote for in November and even more so if they don't have all 12 uncounted remaining states votes and delegates counted in Denver!

Hillary remains the most divisive politician in America. Bush is a close second. They have too much in common, hiring their cronies, special interest money and using big donors to try to win. Now the Clinton campaign and their biggest lobbyist donors are threatening the party if they don't pick the loser Hillary! If she can't change the rules she agreed to then the threats come out. What a pitiful person! What a sinister candidate!

We have all been emailing the DNC for months letting them know..don't seat don't plan on a November victory. Don't seat..no money! Posted by Roger | March 27, 2008 7:57 PM
So what does the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee have to do with the DNC, Hillary or Obama? And why are you threatening them? You seriously in such a suicide pact that you would try to take down the chances of every Democrat running for Congress because FL and MI flaunted DNC rules? And all because Pelosi said the obvious, that it would be suicidal for the party superdelegates to overturn the outcome of pledged delegates. That's nuts. Do you even consider what you are saying? You don't want to support the DNC, fine. You don't want to support Obama, fine. But to actually hurt the entire party as it tries to expand it's numbers in Congress to get a working majority to actually get stuff done? Absolutely bonkers. Certifiable.

Clinton never signed an agreement that the votes in Michigan and Florida would not count. The only agreement that was signed, by Clinton, Edwards and Obama, was an agreement not to campaign in either states. Obama violated that pledge by advertising in Florida, Clinton and Edwards abided by the pledge.

Since when did let the people voting become anti-democratic?

It isn't over until all the people have voted, and every vote is counted. Unless the party isn't democratic anymore, but fascist. Given the Orwellian nature of many Obama supporters statements, perhaps they prefer fascism. But us regular, non-latte drinking folk prefer to elect our Presidents.

I am pleased to finally see some Democrats showing some leadership by putting together this petition. Pelosi and Dean have clearly drank the kool-aid and have lost all concern for the future of the Democratic Party.

Go Hillary!

The DNC stated that the Michigan re-vote plan was consistent with their rules. Obama's surrogates in the MI legislature torpedoed that plan because Obama wants to run the clock out. Bad analogy. This is not basketball, soccer or football - this is an election process with 10 more contests plus FL and MI and millions of voters. Florida's re-vote was also stopped by Obama. Why are Obama and his supporters afraid to let the process continue?

Let the voters decide, follow all the rules and allow re-votes and allow the SDs use their best judgement. If this process is shortcircuited, then the nominee is not legitimate. I never thought that the Democratic Party and Democrats would be arguing to stop the voting. This is an historic election and millions are waiting to cast their votes and want their voices heard and their votes to count. Look at the registration numbers in PA. The Democratic Party should do the right thing; let the voters decide including MI and FL and let the SDs do their job.

He is exercising some judgment. That judgment is not to be a bitch and cave in to pressure like the Dems normally do. These rules were established ahead of time; if anyone wants to be mad at anyone, they should be mad at Florida and Michigan for trying to pull a power trip and then calling foul once consequences were reinforced.

Expecting Howie Dean to "exercise some leader-
ship" is to hope that the female candidate
would put on a dress occasionally when appearing
in public.....ain't gonna happen. Certain
truths are set in stone.

Obama's star-power could be fleeting...but
Hillary's "got legs".

The DNC stated that the Michigan re-vote plan was consistent with their rules. Obama's surrogates in the MI legislature torpedoed that plan because Obama wants to run the clock out. Bad analogy. This is not basketball, soccer or football - this is an election process with 10 more contests plus FL and MI and millions of voters. Florida's re-vote was also stopped by Obama. Why are Obama and his supporters afraid to let the process continue?

It's a little thing called the Voting Rights Act.

Classic Clinton. When the chips are down they create chaos, out of which to emerge victorious, find a more advantageous position, or at least buy time. What's the difference between something that keeps coming back, and something that just won't go away? Mr. and Mrs. Clinton's list of lies will provide journalistic fodder for decades. However, thanks to DNA, Internet, and other technologies, many of their misdeeds have already come to light, with more on the way. Although the Clintons continue to lie, thank goodness for that. Their blatant untruths only serve to increase the likelihood of their getting caught: http://theseedsof9-11.com

It is at their own peril that the DNC, Howard "Hooha" Dean and the Democratic Party have chosen to disenfranchise several million Michigan and Florida voters.For two years Michigan has been the poster child for the economic conditions which are now galloping across the nation and yet the Party Cronies have decided that the needs of Iowa and NH are more indicative of Democratic mainstream issues then Michigan. The term "Reagan Democratic",( soon to morph into "McCain Democrat") was first applied to the phenomenon of the Detroit Suburbs of the 1980's. I, personally, see no need for a re-do of the Michigan Primary. In January I crossed over to vote for McCain and will do so again in November. I cannot in good conscience vote for or support any candidate who did not campaign actively in the Michigan Primary. Simply, if the Dems don't need me, I certainly don't need them.

The Democratic Party doesn't trust its left-wing base. The Democratic Party screwed up its primary process -- superdelegates, proportional representation, confusion and chaos -- after the McGovern fiasco.

Clinton is still in the race for one reason -- her supporters want her to stay in. If that might help McCain if Obama wins the nom, that's a good thing, because we don't want Obama to be President. This whole fiasco is proof that the left wing of the Democratic Party should never control the Executive Branch.

The difference between McGovern and Obama is that blacks support Obama because he's black, but blacks didn't go for McGovern in the primary. But in the general election, blacks came back to McGovern, who still lost by a landslide. So the Obama primary coalition is the same as the McGovern general election coalition. There is very good reason America rejects left wing Democratic Presidents.

If Obama is so cocksure that he will win, what's he afraid of? Let the MI voters have their say. Clinton acknowledges it may not go her way, but she's willing to let them have a "legal" go at it. The first primary was in violation of Howie's arm-folding across his chest. A new primary would not be. Obama wants to appear to be above the fray but the truth is, he is the troublemaker. Why can't this country see through him? He's morally bankrupt and full of tricks.

Candidates aside what I am really upset about is a violation of civil rights and one might argue with me saying the Democratic party is just a private organization and can do whatever they want. But the Democratic party was around since the founding of this country and most people believe it to be a part of this country and it's government. But I believe that this party should at least in principle abide by the constitution the way it is today. I don't think it's the right of this party to ban African Americans from voting or women from voting. Yet they are banning both and millions of people from voting in primaries.

Governors of PA and NJ raised the money, so money is not an issue. The Democratic party came up with a solution but Obama stopped it. How is it that Obama has the power to deny the people their civil rights and say that African Americans and Women and millions of Americans cannot vote?

Look at history: “In the United States two groups in particular, African Americans and women, were long excluded from the franchise, and their struggles to achieve the right to vote were long and hard fought. In theory, African American men achieved suffrage with the adoption of the Fifteenth Amendment, but in fact some states threw up barriers to black voting that persisted into the 1960s. American women did not win their struggle for suffrage until ratification of the Nineteenth Amendment in 1920, but unlike African Americans, they did not then have to continue the fight against state attempts to circumvent the law. A final extension of suffrage took place in 1971 when the Twenty-Sixth Amendment lowered the voting age from 21 to 18.”

I've been a monthly contributor to the DNC. I wrote them more than a month ago about my disatisfaction with their weak response to both the ugly sexism being demonstrated in the media and the unrelentingly personal, character assassination tactics being used against a major Democratic candidate. Standing up against this sort of thing has nothing to do with preference for one candidate over another -- it is a matter of demonstrating the ability to stand up. period. For the party itself, for its recent history, for the people who have contributed to its successes, and most especially, for those constituencies that the party claims to represent. In this case, they needed to stand up forcefully for the women who have mostly been responsible for keeping this party viable since the early 80s.

I then received a call asking for an increase in my contribution. I told them "no" and told them why. I'm happy to sign the petition, but I know it isn't going to do a damn thing -- because too few of those in the party leadership understand the principles at stake.

Howard Dean appears to have been taught a lesson in 2004 -- when the media presented him with a tee shirt that said "We have the power."

Of course, if that's what Democrats believe and act on -- if they continue to cringe and snivel before the media, and continuously kick their own contituents in the teeth to please the media -- then they are useless as a party in terms of representing the real interests of ordinary Americans.

They don't get it. In refusing to stand up to the media, whether its because of a misunderstanding of the principles involved or for the intentional short term gain of one candidate over another, they are destroying their long term interests, conspiring in the destruction of their brand, and maintaining the course that has allowed the "swift-boating" of party leaders to become a matter of course. In fact, Democrats have allowed the character assassination of their leaders to become so routine that such characterizations -- dishonest, inauthentic, pandering, say or do anything to win, etc., etc. -- now are seen, by a majority of Americans, to apply to ALL Democrats.

Refusing to protest, and perhaps even willingness to participate in, the media sexism and personal trashing of Clinton may win Obama the nomination -- but it weakens the image of the party, disrespects important constituents, and makes it much easier and even more likely that, once Clinton is out of the picture and the media has again proved its "power," Obama and future leaders will be trashed in exactly the same way.

My personal belief is that, no matter what position the DNC took, if Obama had, instead of seeing it and using it as an advantage to his campaign, come out and strongly denounced, with the kind of powerful speech we know he is capable of giving, the disrespect toward women revealed in the media's over-the-top displays of sexism, acknowledge the obstacles that have stood and still stand to women's equal participation in the political process, and affirmed his committment to equality and justice -- beyond just matters of race -- he would have had the nomination sewn up before Super Tuesday.

It's obvious, Obama blocked the Florida and Michigan re-votes because he knew he would lose, again.

It's obvious, Obama blocked the Florida and Michigan re-votes because he knew he would lose, again. Posted by Richard Worthington | March 28, 2008 1:06 PM
That is a ridiculous charge. Care to back it up with any evidence? I didn't think so.

In fact, FL Gov. Crist (R) went on all the national network shows saying that he wanted to have the party seat the delegates who were already voted on. FL Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz (D), by the way a massive Hillary supporter, always said that she wanted to have Florida's delegates from the election already had seated. Florida had two options, one was to have a caucus (Hillary opposed that) or to revote a primary. In order to revote a primary, they had to pass a new law (by a super-majority) and find a funding source. FL Sen. Nelson (D), a Hillary supporter, suggested a mail-in ballot, that turned out to be illegal under FL law. And FL Republicans had no interest in supporting a new law for the a primary and ultimately Florida dropped the idea without any doing by Obama at all. Why not read and weep for yourself, from Rep. Karen L. Thurman Chair, Florida Democratic Party and Clinton Supporter:

A party-run primary or caucus has been ruled out, and it's simply not possible for the state to hold another election, even if the Party were to pay for it. Republican Speaker of the Florida House Marco Rubio refuses to even consider that option. Florida is finally moving to paper ballots, which is a good thing, but it means that at least 15 counties do not have the capacity to handle a major election before the June 10th DNC primary deadline.

You should really read the whole memo for yourself.
The situation in Michigan was extremely similar. Republicans in the state legislature opposed to a new law. Clinton refused to have a caucus, which would have required no law to hold and could have been organized by the party.

Care to revise your remarks?

Those Democrats who identify as Reagan Democrats, particualrly in an economically hard hit state like Michigan, who are threatening or promising to vote for McCain ought to reconsider.

After Reagan was elected with the help of working class Reagan Democrats, he instittued some of the harshest union busting measures in modern history and helped to eviserate at least one union, which has never recovered. Like McCain, Reagan was not only unsympathetic to organized labor, but to working people in general.

If some Michigan pro-labor conservative Democratic voters think they will get their revenge for their state's rule-breaking by voting for a self-described and certified economic conservative and anti-labor pro-corporate Republican like John McCain, look to your own wrists after he is elected and note the damage done.


In the general election, vote for the candidate who shares your stated political agenda; don't vote against your real interests so you can strut around like some avenging (but foolish) angel.

You won't be alone. Half of us Democrats are going to need to suck it up to stop four more years of Republican misrule--which the world can't abide. Don't kid yourself that John McCain is anything (politically) other than what he explicitly says he is. Don't kid yourself that MCCain is tempermentally suited to be running the show. If his stated politics (and voting record) don't eliminate him as a choice, his temper should.

The Petition should be titled "A Petition For Fairness, Until the Florida and Michigan Delegates Cast Their Votes, At Which Time Said Delegates Are Free To Reject the Will of the Voters Who This Peitition Seeks Fairness For."

Kind of cumbersome, but accurate.

The Democratic Party has always had a duty to faciliate voting in all fifty states. The party also has in interest in doing so.

Howard Dean has said that he foresees the Florida and the Michigan delegations' being seated, in some fashion, at the convention.

The delay works for Senator Obama, who is helping to promulage it.

A petition has been posted at www.hillaryclinton.com. All in favor, please sign.

Obama's people should stop silencing the good people of Florida and Michigan.let the people vote! These are two large states that could swing either Deomcrat or Republican but are more in the favor of Republicans espicially Florida. Obama ONLY wins in states the Republicans are ensured to win and Senator Clinton wins in large important swing states. Obama knows that if Florida and Michigan are counted he can count his nomination over and then the pressure for him to resign will commence!
Thats CHANGE I believe in!

It is at their own peril that the DNC, Howard "Hooha" Dean and the Democratic Party have chosen to disenfranchise several million Michigan and Florida voters.For two years Michigan has been the poster child for the economic conditions which are now galloping across the nation and yet the Party Cronies have decided that the needs of Iowa and NH are more indicative of Democratic mainstream issues then Michigan. If my vote is not counted for the primary, I will then not vote in the general election if Obama Sama is the democratic candidate for president. Obama is a liar and a cheat.

"Thirdly, Obama has also voiced willingness to go along with any election approved by the DNC."

Either you have been mislead or you are a liar, because obama the anti-christ wants to split them 50/50 to disenfranchise voters and get delegates he did not win.

I'm not politically left or right. It seems to me though that Hillary Clinton spins the truth just like George W. Bush does.

How can she claim she has the popular vote when Obama's name wasn't even on the Michigan ticket, or campaigned in Florida? How can she cry "unfairness" in Florida when early on she supported the pledge ban?

I can only assume that this is how she will behave if she becomes president. I really rooted for her at the beginning, but now I'm honestly really tired of her spin.