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DNC Lays Out Choice For Florida And Michigan: Rules, Re-Vote

05 Mar 2008 06:43 pm

Howard Dean will not bend the party rules to grandfather in the disputed delegates from Michigan and Florida, the Democratic party chairman said in a statement today.

Instead, he put the state parties on notice: either they can wait and allow the credentials committee to decide whether to seat their delegates, or submit to a re-vote sanctioned under DNC rules. "We look forward to receiving their proposals should they decide to submit new delegate selection plans and will review those plans at that time," he said in the statement.

"Everyone seems to be asking what the DNC will do," a Democrat close to Dean said. "But the question is: what will the state parties do."

Dean's statement implies that he has no intention of changing the rules to accommodate any solution proposed by the candidates or the state parties. There has been some suggestion that the two remaining presidential candidates might try to broker a deal among themselves. His line in the sand narrows the options for Hillary Clinton's campaign because it is unlikely that a credentials committee would endorse a delegation congenial to her mathematical interests.

Dean will make the rounds of the network morning news shows tomorrow to explain his reasoning.

The state parties better act quickly: they have to submit a new plan and run the contest before June 10.

Karen Thurman, the chair of the Florida Democratic Party, issued a statement late Wednesday that seemed to discount the possibility of a second primary.

“It is important also that we are clear about one issue. At this time, no suggested alternative process has been able to meet three specific and necessary requirements: the full participation from both candidates, a guaranteed commitment of the millions of dollars it will cost to conduct the event and a detailed election plan that would enfranchise all Florida Democrats, including our military service members serving in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere.

The Florida Democratic Party cannot consider any alternative that does not meet these requirements. Indeed, it is very possible that no satisfactory alternative plan will emerge, in which case Florida Democrats will remain committed to seating the delegates allocated by the January 29th primary.

It's clear that whoever is the first to suggest a new primary would also to suggest a credible mechanism to pay for it.

The DNC stripped Florida and Michigan of 366 total delegates after the two states submitted delegate selection plans that violated party rules.

Here is Dean's full statement:


"We're glad to hear that the Governors of Michigan and Florida are willing to lend their weight to help resolve this issue. As we've said all along, we strongly encourage the Michigan and Florida state parties to follow the rules, so today's public overtures are good news. The rules, which were agreed to by the full DNC including representatives from Florida and Michigan over 18 months ago, allow for two options. First, either state can choose to resubmit a plan and run a party process to select delegates to the convention; second, they can wait until this summer and appeal to the Convention Credentials Committee, which determines and resolves any outstanding questions about the seating of delegates. We look forward to receiving their proposals should they decide to submit new delegate selection plans and will review those plans at that time. The Democratic Nominee will be determined in accordance with party rules, and out of respect for the presidential campaigns and the states that did not violate party rules, we are not going to change the rules in the middle of the game.

"Through all the speculation, we should also remember the overwhelming enthusiasm and turnout that we have already seen, and respect the voters of the ten states who have yet to have their say.

"As we head towards November, our nominee must have the united support of a strong Democratic Party that's ready to fight and ready to beat John McCain. After seven years of Republican rule, I am confident that we will elect a Democratic president who will fight for America's families in the White House. Now we must hear from the voters in twelve states and territories who have yet to make their voices heard."

Comments (386)

If there is a do-over do they get the same no of delegates they had in January or do they get the bonus the DNC gives for going later? I presume it's the former, right?

Is there such a thing as absentee caucusing, for servicemen and women serving abroad?

Maine had caucuses where absentee ballots were allowed.

It's clear that whoever is the first to suggest a new primary would also to suggest a credible mechanism to pay for it.

There's always money in the banana stand.

Sure, have a re-vote, which I am sure Hillary will be happy to pay for since it represents another chance to make inroads into Obama's lead. But put on the ballot another measure:

Would you, the voters in FL and MI, like to strip the state democratic party officials their titles? (in other words, fire them?)

I can't think of anything more tragic than this year's dem race. One candidate so odious she is barely human. The other a great orator, woefully inexperienced.

Give it to McCain and try again in 2012.... What a waste.

I can't think of anything more tragic than this year's dem race. One candidate so odious she is barely human. The other a great orator, woefully inexperienced.

Give it to McCain and try again in 2012.... What a waste.

I can't think of anything more tragic than this year's dem race. One candidate so odious she is barely human. The other a great orator, woefully inexperienced.

Give it to McCain and try again in 2012.... What a waste.

BRING ON THE "HANGING CHADS" AGAIN. AND SOME SUPREME COURT ACTION.

WHILE ALL OF THIS JUNK GOES ON, PELOSI LETS THE HOUSE FORGET ABOUT NATIONAL SECURITY....

TOO BUSY WORRYING ABOUT THE SIZE OF HER AIR PLANE

I BET IF OBAMA GETS THE NOMINATION, SHE WILL LET HIM RIDE IN HER BIG OLD AIRPLANE WITH HER AND ALL HER GRANDKIDS....JUST LIKE FAMILY.

This party can't select a nominee without smoke screens and back door deals. This is the same bunch that want to run this country.

Howard Dean is a complete idiot and I am so glad he runs the DNC. The Democratic Party is a Joke so please continue to make complete fools of yourselves as we conservatives love to watch this complete insanity that you clowns continue to perpetuate and watch you self destruct.
Het HOWARD what a great leader!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Howard Dean is a complete idiot and I am so glad he runs the DNC. The Democratic Party is a Joke so please continue to make complete fools of yourselves as we conservatives love to watch this complete insanity that you clowns continue to perpetuate and watch you self destruct.
Het HOWARD what a great leader!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course, according to DNC rules Iowa, SC, and NH should also lose there delegates, but that hasn't happened yet, eh??? Also, FL and Mich were only supposed to penalized by half. The dems are a joke - they can't even follow their own election rules - let alone the nation's!!!

I did not vote in the Michigan primary because my candidate Obama was not on the ballot because the party said votes would not count. My wife did vote because her candidate Clinton was on the ballot. If anyone from Michigan is going to be seated at the convention I believe I have a right to vote.

To allow a revote in Florida and Michigan would represent a further travesty upon the Democratic process already injured by the self serving tactics of Hillary Clinton...will Hillary not stop at anything in order to accomplish her "Machiavelian" agenda!!

I wonder how the results will turn out on this one? Will the people of those states vote for the candidate who has spent the past few weeks talking about how their voice should count (after she "won" there already) or will they vote for the candidate who was standing by his agreement that they shouldn't have delegates seated because they violated party rules? This isn't going to be close at all and will really favor Hillary.

Hillary you better not drag the party down this year with your losing campaign. If Obama is leading in delegates after PA then just give up and support him!

Oh my God - the RNC must be so freakin' happy right now.

I have always heard about Democrats forming a Democratic Circular Firing Squad - but dang - we see it happening right before our eyes.


First the Democrats don't trust their voters - so they have SuperDelegates - in case the voters "get out of hand"..

Now they tell the states one thing - but now are looking for a re-vote?

The Republicans have their nominee and he is totally free to start bashing both Democrats while they are still mired down in what is turning into a mud fight.

Let's see if the Democrats are once again able to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory...

The Democrats can't even manage a primary, and yet they want us to believe that they can run the country?
If Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi weren't evidence enough, this confirms it.

Just like the Dems, change the rules in the middle of the game.

Just like the Dems, change the rules in the middle of the game.

why is it everything the dems have done has to be undone, re-done or ammended: SS. Medicade, medicare, education, and now there own primary rules. An you have to ask "if liberals had a brain they wouldn't be liberals." An to top that off you want to have these people run our country and appoint federal and surpreme court justice's

Why is always the Democrats who want revotes and to change the rules in the middle of the game?

"...a chance to make inroads into Obama's lead..." -are you kidding? The states didn't follow the party orders so the voters in these states don't count? That's throwing the baby out with the bath water.

I recall not long ago when there was outrage that every single voter in Florida did not get a say in the general election because of the "hanging chads." Now, you claim that it is "fair" to simply deny the entire democratic party within each of these states a vote because they voted too early!

Why not just say what you mean: "We don't want the people to be able to vote because then Hillary may win the democratic nomination, therefore, some people must be silenced by using technical party ruling." LOL.

Democrats - you gotta love 'em.

Why is always the Democrats who want revotes and to change the rules in the middle of the game?

As a Florida resident I do not care if they have a re-do or not, just do not ask the Florida taxpayers to pay for another vote. We already paid for one in Jan. Besides the state has enough problems not to waste money to please the DNC

What's with the commentators cheering on their political party like a sports team?

"That's probably why we beat them at football nearly half the time."

This is saaaad. I had such great hopes for Paul and Kucinich....

This is baloney... Each candidate, including OBAMA, had the choice to PAY to have their names put on the ballot...Obama didn't want to spend the money - as did neither Edwards, Biden or Dodd.
Florida's voters as well as Michigan's are within their rights to have their votes counted. Especially in Florida where it was a Republican Governor that signed the date change into law - meaning the Dems had no choice but to vote on the date they changed it to.

Joe, Have you thought of a new spouse?

KJS ... you said it all!!!! This country has trillions of dollars of unfunded entitlements coming up over the next 20 years and they want to add billions in medical entitlements. WIll China finace tus?

KJS ... you said it all!!!! This country has trillions of dollars of unfunded entitlements coming up over the next 20 years and they want to add billions in medical entitlements. WIll China finace tus?

Democrats are funny.

Once again the democrats are self destructing, an implosion of epic proportions. This should be the easy year, but they are going to blow it again. They have the most polarizing figure in political history in Clinton, and an absolute rookie in Obama, a man so utterly unqualified that even his most ardent supporters can't name a single accomplishment. The nominating process is a joke, a disgrace. It is designed to pander to the most extreme liberals, making it all but impossible for political moderates to vote democrat in the general election. Obama's proposals are classic socialism. New programs abound. It is totally absurd.

This is typical of the Democrat party and Liberals in general. If you don't like the Democratic process, you cheat and make up different rules. This process is NOT how Democratic governments operate, it is how TYRANNICAL DICTATORSHIPS operate.

Welcome to the NEW Soviet Union.

OK, because there was no real Dem ticket, I crossed over and voted Republican. Now, am I allowed a re-vote, even though I had to register as a republican to vote the first time?

Rules are rules sheeesh! Fl and Mi shouldn't count and Obama should be candidate. Clinton cannot win people, not even with Obama as VP. People vote for who is at top of ticket not veep slot. Hillary has high negatives and sends bluebogs and independents to McCain. Obama inspires while Clinton mires.

Isn't hillary a white woman
and isn't obama a black man?

why not vote for mcain!

PUSH PUSH IN THE BUSH

GO BUSH 2008

Bravo, Howard Dean! That's the right decision. Don't change the rules in the middle of the game. FL and MI can still comply with the rules if they wish, by having new primaries or caucuses. Otherwise, they have removed themselves from the process this year, by their own intransigence.

Isn't hillary a white woman
and isn't obama a black man?

why not vote for mcain!

PUSH PUSH IN THE BUSH

GO BUSH 2008

Isn't hillary a white woman
and isn't obama a black man?

why not vote for mcain!

PUSH PUSH IN THE BUSH

GO BUSH 2008

"It's clear that whoever is the first to suggest a new primary would also to suggest a credible mechanism to pay for it."

"There's always money in the banana stand."

You are my hero.

Mr. Dean, please stick to the rules! Rules are not made to be broken because the Clintons are desperate and dangerous! Hillary Clinton along with the other candidates agreed to the rules and now she and Bill want to change the rules. I don't think so! There are too many young people who have participated in this political process for the first time -- so, keep the rules do not discourage our youth. There has to be some sense to this madness that the Clintons are espousing -- DON'T GIVE IN TO THEM! If you do, you can forget the General election. Thank you.

I love it...McCain runs away with it as HRC destroys the party when it was their "year."

And, for what? Personal ego...she can't let go.

It is a sad state of affairs when parties think they can dictate to a state when it can hold a primary. Caucuses are another thing because they are paid for by the parties. But primaries are paid for by the people of that state via tax dollars.

To those who think that when your state held its primary and your candidate was not on the ballot. Then you should have written in their name. You all should have seen the possiblity of this coming.

My hope is that they do not hold new primaries and that Clinton with the delgates she would have won would then have a lead and sue for them to be seated.

Not because I support her, but to put things back into the proper perspective. That is the states are in charge of when a primary is held not a party be it Rep or Dem.

It is a no win for the Dem on this. If they do not seat the delegates they have done exactly what they claim the Rep do to them and desfranchising voters. If they run a second primary it will basicly do the same!

It is a sad state of affairs when parties think they can dictate to a state when it can hold a primary. Caucuses are another thing because they are paid for by the parties. But primaries are paid for by the people of that state via tax dollars.

To those who think that when your state held its primary and your candidate was not on the ballot. Then you should have written in their name. You all should have seen the possibility of this coming.

My hope is that they do not hold new primaries and that Clinton with the delegates she would have won would then have a lead and sue for them to be seated.

Not because I support her, but to put things back into the proper perspective. That is the states are in charge of when a primary is held not a party be it Rep or Dem.

It is a no win for the Dem on this. If they do not seat the delegates they have done exactly what they claim the Rep do to them and disfranchising voters. If they run a second primary it will basically do the same!

It is a sad state of affairs when parties think they can dictate to a state when it can hold a primary. Caucuses are another thing because they are paid for by the parties. But primaries are paid for by the people of that state via tax dollars.

To those who think that when your state held its primary and your candidate was not on the ballot. Then you should have written in their name. You all should have seen the possibility of this coming.

My hope is that they do not hold new primaries and that Clinton with the delegates she would have won would then have a lead and sue for them to be seated.

Not because I support her, but to put things back into the proper perspective. That is the states are in charge of when a primary is held not a party be it Rep or Dem.

It is a no win for the Dem on this. If they do not seat the delegates they have done exactly what they claim the Rep do to them and disfranchising voters. If they run a second primary it will basically do the same!

If the DNC were to seat Florida & Michigan, it would be a betrayal to those who followed the rules (Obama), on the highest level possible.

Florida & Michigan broke the rules. Live with it. The presidency is at stake. Anything else is cheating.

I'm very liberal but, if the agreement is broken, I would never again vote for a democrat. It would be either the McCains or Greens of the world for the rest of my life. I could never forgive that type of cheating.

---

It makes my skin crawl at how despicable the Clinton campaign is for even trying to break the agreement and get nominated by cheating.

I am so hard....I mean thinking so hard about hillary and obama....I am so hard..ened by the opportunity.

Hey does anyone think hill's got a big butt?

me too.

I am so hard....I mean thinking so hard about hillary and obama....I am so hard..ened by the opportunity.

Hey does anyone think hill's got a big butt?

me too.

Ask not what your political party can do for you, but what you can do for your political party.

As a Florida Democrat, I will do my part for "the party" next November. They might not be like what I will do.

As a FL Democratic voter, this scenario really bothers me. This may drive me from the party altogether. My state leaders and Howard Dean seem to be completely insane.

You idios do realize the Repugs that control FL made the change in primary dates, yes. O & C were both on the ballot. If I were C I would file a Fed. LS over FL. MI? Quien sabe?

A revote should absolutely not be allowed.

The DNC should also decide NOW that these two state parties, which broke the rules set forth by the DNC, that their delegates WILL NOT be allowed to vote in the convention - for President, Vice President or dog catcher!

A revote will not be fair to the residents of the other states who followed the rules. How many more delegates would either Obama or Clinton have gotten if there weren't the other also ran candidates in the original race?

I would anticipate legal action from voters in the other states if this stunt goes forward.

If I was a taxpayer in either of the two states, I would totally flip out if these costs had to be paid again - many millions of dollars.

Both Obama and Clinton agreed to these rules up front - but Clinton campaigned in both states anyway - even though she knew darn well that the delegates wouldn't be seated.

Who expected anything less than full on controversy in an election involving the Clintons?

Morons.

Way to go dems you'd screw up a wet dream

Hillary will just ask her crriminal buddy George Soros to write a check. If I were GW Bush I'd have Jimmy Carter, the National Guard, and the UN ready to monitor the November elections because sure as tomorrow the Democrats are going to try and steal it from McCain. Anyone caught vote tampering should be waterboarded until they sing like a canary. And what do you want to bet that the trail would lead right to DNC HQ?

"The math is against Hillary"

Well the math is against Obama too. Neither will get 2045 delegates, so Florida and Michigan need to be included.

I hope Hillary wins. If the Republicans spent $40M on the 27 year old Whitewater deal and only found that Bill got a bj, imagine what they will find out about Obama's 2005 purchase of a McMansion with Rezco's "help"? His cocaine use? The money his "poor" family used to pay for his trips to Kenya and Harvard? They will destroy this black man and set back blacks further than the party is setting back women.

Randy Rhodes and the rest of Air America Radio has drank the Obama KoolAid hook, like and sinker. They have used sexist arguments to discredit Hillary's 3 am ads (by saying that some general would have to be asked to drop nukes if ordered by Hillary -- why, because she might be on the rag?). They are dividing the party and Karl Rove is laughing all the way to the bank (and not to prison).

Obama has been bought and this whole "we are the change we have been waiting for" is disingenious and a farce.

And you want these idiots running the country? It's like little kids who keep changing the rules if they aren't winning. Democrats, oh how far they have fallen. Thanks for giving me a college scholarship, sorry I can't bring myself to vote for you anymore.

The major flaw i see is this gives Every Rupublican in florida and michigin (who already voted in the reppublicans primarys last month, an oppertunity to polute these primarys by voting for who ever they think is weekest Rush Limbaugh has been telling them to go ahead and vote Hillary for the last week.

How weird would it be if FL voters are disenfranchised again, but by Dean this time.

CAN ANYONE TELL ME.....

FOR $40,000

WHAT A "PURPLE HELMETED PULSATING WARRIOR" MEANS?

HINT!

IT'S SO STIFF AND HARD AND HAS WHITE STUFF CUMMING OUT WHEN IT GETS RUBBED!

WHOSE THE LUCKY WINNER!?

CAN ANYONE TELL ME.....

FOR $40,000

WHAT A "PURPLE HELMETED PULSATING WARRIOR" MEANS?

HINT!

IT'S SO STIFF AND HARD AND HAS WHITE STUFF CUMMING OUT WHEN IT GETS RUBBED!

WHOSE THE LUCKY WINNER!?

CAN ANYONE TELL ME.....

FOR $40,000

WHAT A "PURPLE HELMETED PULSATING WARRIOR" MEANS?

HINT!

IT'S SO STIFF AND HARD AND HAS WHITE STUFF CUMMING OUT WHEN IT GETS RUBBED!

WHOSE THE LUCKY WINNER!?

The DNC and party leaders need to end this disaster NOW! Clearly Obama has an overwhelming lead in pledged delegates, so much so that it is insurmountable and impossible for Hillary to catch up no matter what she wins. The superdelegates need to support the candidate with the most pledged delegates, the most most states and the most votes, that would be Obama.

And as to the question of inexperience, he has plenty of it. Come November he will have 12 years of experience as an elected official to Hillary's 8. The media just lets Clinton have her way without reporting the truth. The truth is that Obama was a state senator for 8 years and by November, a U.S. senator for 4. Hillary, by November will have 8 years as a U.S. senator. Obama has MORE EXERIENCE and he has GOOD JUDGEMENT!

Stop the insanity! Stop the misinformation! Stop replaying Clinton Press Releases as if they were news releases!!

CAN ANYONE TELL ME.....

FOR $40,000

WHAT A "PURPLE HELMETED PULSATING WARRIOR" MEANS?

HINT!

IT'S SO STIFF AND HARD AND HAS WHITE STUFF CUMMING OUT WHEN IT GETS RUBBED!

WHOSE THE LUCKY WINNER!?

CAN ANYONE TELL ME.....

FOR $40,000

WHAT A "PURPLE HELMETED PULSATING WARRIOR" MEANS?

HINT!

IT'S SO STIFF AND HARD AND HAS WHITE STUFF CUMMING OUT WHEN IT GETS RUBBED!

WHOSE THE LUCKY WINNER!?

If these states were obvious supporters of the candidate known as "Oprahbama" would the people above sing a different tune? The PEOPLE who are memembers of the DEMOCRATIC PARTY in MI and FL did NOTHING wrong. They voted when they were TOLD to vote, when they were ALLOWED to vote. Their mistake right? So odd that the people who are most upset at the prospect of these people getting a say in their OWN PARTY is other members of their OWN PARTY! hahahahahha. democrats

And to the poster who whined about not changing the rules because it is the first election young people have cared about...that is absurd. If they are young, then it's the first election they've seen. So naturally it's the only one they've cared about. But please explain why the precious children should have more of a say than the elderly of Florida or the un-employed auto worker in Michigan? Ohh yeah, because they are so easily swayed by the great orator ... oprahbama.

CAN ANYONE TELL ME.....

FOR $40,000

WHAT A "PURPLE HELMETED PULSATING WARRIOR" MEANS?

HINT!

IT'S SO STIFF AND HARD AND HAS WHITE STUFF CUMMING OUT WHEN IT GETS RUBBED!

WHOSE THE LUCKY WINNER!?

CAN ANYONE TELL ME.....

FOR $40,000

WHAT A "PURPLE HELMETED PULSATING WARRIOR" MEANS?

HINT!

IT'S SO STIFF AND HARD AND HAS WHITE STUFF CUMMING OUT WHEN IT GETS RUBBED!

WHOSE THE LUCKY WINNER!?

It is absolutely amazing how brainless the voters of Ohio and Texas were that voted for Hillary (destroy the party) Clinton. Is there anyone out there who can not see the devious way the Clinton's play politics. Has everyone forgotton Kathy Wiley and Juanita Broderick, Paula Jones. Visits to the Lincoln bedroom for donations. Travelgate, troopergate, Marc Rich pardon. Sorry to say my fellow american's are so busy watching Jerry Springer and playing video games, that their brains are fried that they cannot see that the Clinton's are souless people that politics are their god and are without any moral decency. Who will say and do anything to get a vote. Am I the only one who see's the Clinton's as they truly are?

CAN ANYONE TELL ME.....

FOR $40,000

WHAT A "PURPLE HELMETED PULSATING WARRIOR" MEANS?

HINT!

IT'S SO STIFF AND HARD AND HAS WHITE STUFF CUMMING OUT WHEN IT GETS RUBBED!

WHOSE THE LUCKY WINNER!?

CAN ANYONE TELL ME.....

FOR $40,000

WHAT A "PURPLE HELMETED PULSATING WARRIOR" MEANS?

HINT!

IT'S SO STIFF AND HARD AND HAS WHITE STUFF CUMMING OUT WHEN IT GETS RUBBED!

WHOSE THE LUCKY WINNER!?

CAN ANYONE TELL ME.....

FOR $40,000

WHAT A "PURPLE HELMETED PULSATING WARRIOR" MEANS?

HINT!

IT'S SO STIFF AND HARD AND HAS WHITE STUFF CUMMING OUT WHEN IT GETS RUBBED!

WHOSE THE LUCKY WINNER!?

She going to try to steal it , Bush Lite 2.0

CAN ANYONE TELL ME.....

FOR $40,000

WHAT A "PURPLE HELMETED PULSATING WARRIOR" MEANS?

HINT!

IT'S SO STIFF AND HARD AND HAS WHITE STUFF CUMMING OUT WHEN IT GETS RUBBED!

WHOSE THE LUCKY WINNER!?

I think the redo is a great idea. The Florida and Michigan Dems screwed up badly in forcing the issue. They should all be fired immediately.

But a redo would be the smartest and best option at this time. And there isn't much time left to do it.

My guess is that it would cost $20 or $30 million to run a primary. Not a huge sum given the stakes and impportance of the issues. The voters in the affected states would LOVE the chance.

Of course, if the redos are approved and Clinton lost either of them, she'd probably sue that the original votes should have prevailed...

Again, the Florida and Michigan state Dems are at fault. They have a collective IQ of about 100.

The DNC and party leaders need to end this disaster NOW! Clearly Obama has an overwhelming lead in pledged delegates, so much so that it is insurmountable and impossible for Hillary to catch up no matter what she wins. The superdelegates need to support the candidate with the most pledged delegates, the most most states and the most votes, that would be Obama.

And as to the question of inexperience, he has plenty of it. Come November he will have 12 years of experience as an elected official to Hillary's 8. The media just lets Clinton have her way without reporting the truth. The truth is that Obama was a state senator for 8 years and by November, a U.S. senator for 4. Hillary, by November will have 8 years as a U.S. senator. Obama has MORE EXPERIENCE and he has GOOD JUDGMENT!

Stop the insanity! Stop the misinformation! Stop replaying Clinton Press Releases as if they were news releases!!

MI and FL should be delighted to vote again. They moved up in the calendar in order to have more influence on the race. As we see now all the states that voted early have not made the difference. Going later this time may have the greatest effect. They should vote again. This time they will have the influence they originally wanted.

Glad to see you democrats spending enormous amounts of money slapping each other around...

Go ahead and practice falling down a few times, then call McCain to finish off the job. HAHAHAHAHA

So my party (Democratic) agrees to the rules and then decide to change them after the fact? Any revote in either state will favor Hillary which makes me sick!

Due to this disaster, I will vote McCain.

Here are the facts for both DEM or REP on the Florida primary date change:

Primary sponsor of the bill 537 to change primary date was Jeremy Ring DEM Margate.

The bill passed the legislation committee and all 4 of the DEMS on that committee.

The vote passes in the FL Senate with only 2 no votes, both REPS,

In the FL House it passes with only one no vote - DEM Seiler out of Palm Beach.

So you see, it was not a right wing conspiracy as you guys like to always point out.

The difference is that the REPS did not boycott FL and made the votes actually count (what a concept).

Go to flsenate.gov and type in bill #537. You can see the vote history on the bill for your fact check.

Now please, who disenfranchised whom???

Another Primary? Let's redo anything that we do not like.
Let's redo the Superbowl, World Series, my SAT's hell how about my marriage or that hot date I had in college.
If the Democrats do not follow their own rules and again cheat then the hell with the American Political System and armed insurrection revolution should break out to overthrow this entire system.
The political system of America will be tranparently corrupt.

Nice, Jeff

There's always money in the banana stand

The Democrat party needs to get a hammer and chisle and cut some new rocks with the rules for a party that makes some sense. This is 2008, Mr. Dean. The present method for nominating a candidate is a big mess and needs to be fixed!

Contrary to all the talking points, only the Clinton supporters are whining about being disenfranchised in Florida.

In the end, Hillary will not want a revote because she knows she has a good chance of losing if Obama gets to campaign. Her best case scenario is it'll be close and she won't gain any more delegates.

She's going to continue to claim that those earlier votes should count hoping there will be enough suckers to agree with her.

Fat chance Hillary, revote or nothing.

the united states of hillary clinton ,just because she is being defeated and well behind the dems have to kiss her a***s ,this is not democracy
welcome to the new dictatorship the (ushc)

Jon Boy,
Stop embarrassing us conservatives with your juvenile name-calling. While we may have differing opinions on how our government should be run, we must not become so frustrated that we resort to unproductive bickering as demonstrated in your comment. Please take a seat and realize that we can disagree and still be civil.

Jon Boy posted:
Howard Dean is a complete idiot and I am so glad he runs the DNC. The Democratic Party is a Joke so please continue to make complete fools of yourselves as we conservatives love to watch this complete insanity that you clowns continue to perpetuate and watch you self destruct.
Het HOWARD what a great leader!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are two ways to deal with the Florida and Michigan delegates: 1. split them evenly (Costs nothing. I don't understand why this can't be done.) 2. have Javier Bardem do a coin toss (see No Country for Old Men)...also no cost.

Remember, Florida...when re-voting put the square block in the square hole...not the round one...it wont count if it doesnt go all the way through!

Obama supporters could have written in Obama in MI and FL.
Count as it is.

Hey, "Big Brain," the DNC brought this upon themself, they decided to add a caucus and primary after IA and NH but before Super Tuesday. They chose to two less-than-significant states, and Florida -- pretty important in 2000 -- rightly thought we should have as much importance in primaries as Iowa.

If you want the truth, read the facts, if, that is, you have any room in your big brain for facts.

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/

"We The People" run our government, not some unnamed people in smoke filled rooms. Democracy does not mean "political parties."

Get it?

Obama wants to end "influence peddling" in government. Perhaps he should have said this to Rezko and Auchi?

If you don't know the facts about Obama, Rezko and Auchi, you'd better do some research...

1) Obama won't wear an American flag lapel pin while running for President of the US?

2) Obama won't put his hand over his heart for the National Anthem or Pledge of Allegiance while running for President of the US?

3) Pay attention to Rezko and Auchi...

Yikes - who is going to pay for it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71v_16Pwa2o

Yikes - who is going to pay for it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71v_16Pwa2o

Why would anyone think that the Florida and Michigan State Democratic leaders are at fault? It was the national DNC who decided the votes of Michigan and Florida voters shouldn't count, not state leaders. Howard Dean and his entire DNC committee should resign for disenfranchising voters and creating this mess.

8 years as First Lady entitles this self important witch to "ANSWER THE RED PHONE." As for Carpet Bagging her way to New York Senator, I'm not aware that she has made any National Security decision other than the one she made to vote to bomb the crap out of Iraq. I guess, by that argument, Laura Bush could run for President since she has been first lady for almost 8 years and likely supported hubby George's decision to invade Iraq.

Just the same old same old for the Democrat Party. If you don't like the outcome of the game you just change the rules until you win.. just like Al Gore tried to do in Floridah.

This is OBVIOUSLY being done for the benefit of that scumbag cheater Hillary!!!!

Should not be allowed.

Yikes - who will pay for it?

Taxes Are Tyranny!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71v_16Pwa2o

IM TIRED OF EVERYBODY FIGHTING I LOST SOMEONE CLOSE TO ME IN THIS WAR.I BLAME THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR IT.ALL THE REPUBLICANS THINK ABOUT IS THERE MONEY AND HOW THEY CAN KEEP GETTING RICHER.SEND ONE OF YOUR CHILDREN TO FIGHT AND THEY DONT COME HOME.BUT YOU HAVE A PRESIDENT DANCE ON TV AND THESE KIDS ARE DYING.IF YOU BREAK THE RULES THAN LIVE WITH YOUR DECISION.DONT CAHNGE THE RULES THAT AGAINST THE LAW. THAT MEANS OUR KIDS DIED IN VAIN.AND FOR THAT I HOPE THEY ALL BURN IN HELL.

IM TIRED OF EVERYBODY FIGHTING I LOST SOMEONE CLOSE TO ME IN THIS WAR.I BLAME THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR IT.ALL THE REPUBLICANS THINK ABOUT IS THERE MONEY AND HOW THEY CAN KEEP GETTING RICHER.SEND ONE OF YOUR CHILDREN TO FIGHT AND THEY DONT COME HOME.BUT YOU HAVE A PRESIDENT DANCE ON TV AND THESE KIDS ARE DYING.IF YOU BREAK THE RULES THAN LIVE WITH YOUR DECISION.DONT CAHNGE THE RULES THAT AGAINST THE LAW. THAT MEANS OUR KIDS DIED IN VAIN.AND FOR THAT I HOPE THEY ALL BURN IN HELL.

THE FACTS:

1) this is NOT changing the rules in the middle of the game, the Dem rules remain in effect as they were written and it is fair the Dems are following those rules.

2) the REPUBLICAN-CONTROLLED Florida Legislature chose to set the Fla primary early in deliberate contravention of the rules to DISENFRANCHISE democrats

3) However, on the Florida ballot that day in January was OBAMA and HILLARY. It was a fair choice to voters and Hillary won fair and square in Florida. SO, these FLORIDA DELEGATES SHOULD BE SEATED

4) The problem lies with MICHIGAN, because OBAMA was NOT on the ballot. So, Michigan should revote and Dem donors should pay for it from BOTH campaigns

5) JOHN MCAIN IS A LOSER. A Democrat will win in November. So THIS is the General Election, who do you want -- Hillary or Obama??

6) Obama supporters PLEASE stop asking Hillary to quit. She has every right to continue. She is winning huge in BIG STATES. She has momentum and she is looking more like our sexy new President EVERY DAY! Go Hillary!

7) Just because Obama has a 100 delegate lead means nothing. ALL DELEGATES can switch sides up until the final vote tally taken at the Dem Convention.

8) Hopefully Dems will resolve this before the Convention

9) Obama himself said that "Hillary is the Champ, she does not lose it on points, she needs to be knocked out." Doubtful that Obama will "knock her out" at this stage

10) CLINTON -OBAMA (in that order) need to join together in a UNITY TICKET to kick the teeth out of McCain and the failed Republicans in November

If Michigan and Florida re-vote in an election using public funds, they will be required to allow ALL registered voters to participate.

Since both races would be quite close, the future Demo nominee will have to make a special effort to woo Republicans!

Do I need to explain what Rush Limbaugh is going to do with an opportunity like this?

Dick Morris says "there's no way Hillary can catch Obama." He forgot to add "unless there is a revote in Michigan and Florida."

As a former Hillary low-level aide, I can tell you she DOES NOT like Obama. If you've ever seen the Senate in session, this is clearly obvious when they walk near each other. This is a plain and simple fact.

The idea of them being on the same ticket is ridiculous. They can't stand each other.

One person will be destroyed in this election, and Hillary is the Master Destroyer.

The reason Hillary had a bit of a comeback in the latest primaries is because Republicans crossed the ropes knowing they already had their candidate in the bag and voted for Hillary because she is such a repulsive figure she will absolutely blow the election. Obama is the threat. This is the ONLY reason Hillary had victories as of late. We want her to be the democratic nominee because she's such an easy target to shoot down. Duh.

It was planned for Hillary to rig the election with Michigan and Florida from th beginning. Ask Karl Rove.

We are doom as a country. There is NO freedom here. Its a joke.

I'm a republican in florida.

I'll sue.. We already had an election. Its over, the M O N E Y is spent

Not with my tax money..

Not where my vote doesnt get counted!

I voted for Romney... Someone out there voted for someone other than Hillary or Obama.

WHY DO THEY GET TO VOTE AGAIN AND I DO NOT?

I'm so sick of Bush and the war...I want to like the Democrats I really really do...this is not helping.

I also want to like John McCain. So funny on the Daily Show. Obviously a good guy with his heart in the right place. Not someone I want in control of nuclear weapons or running a war in the Middle East.

Although, better than Bush, is for sure. You get the impression that McCain has at least heard of the Constitution and maybe has some sense of honor. No matter who makes it, there's nowhere to go but up (knock on wood),

My vote didn't count in the 2000 Presidental Election. My vote didn't count in 2008 Democratic Florida Primary. Why should I vote in November, it probably will not count.

Thanks for the hard work Howard Dean!

Remember....The Average citizen in Michigan does not have a say-so in when the Primary is Held. Count are democratic votes, or count on us voting Republican in the Fall! How do you like us now !

Remember....The Average citizen in Michigan does not have a say-so in when the Primary is Held. Count are democratic votes, or count on us voting Republican in the Fall! How do you like us now !

Florida does not need a redo, all candidates were onm the ballot. All the candidates were not on MI's ballot because the DNC said not to register in that state, and all but Senator Clinton and Rep. Kucinich listened to the DNC.

Florida's delegates can just be added, if the DNC wants to add them, but MI will need a redo, or a caucus as least.

Honestly, I could care less either way. The required number of delegates only increases if the DNC adds back FL and MI from what it is today.

Let the chips fly, and let us see how the DNC fairs in November because it chose to NOT COUNT ALL THE VOTES.

The Florida and Michigan State Democratic leaders are at fault because they knowingly moved their primaries to dates that the National Party had been very clear would be unfair to other states in the election process. They knew what the consequences would be, and they did it anyway. Here's a bit more on it:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/04/primary.calendar/

Granted, it calls into question the fairness of the Iowa and New Hampshire primaries as well, but the rules is the rules.

It is absolutely amazing to see Hillary win in Ohio and Texas. Isn't there anyone out there who can see the Clinton's for what they really are. Has everyone forgotten the Clinton years, Kathy Wiley, Juanita Broderick, Paula Jones, Troopergate, Filegate, Travelgate, Marc Rich pardon, Lincoln bedroom vists for a donation. Cattle futures, turning $1,000 into 100,000. Clinton library holdup on releasing papers. Is everyone so busy watching Jerry Springer, playing video games that their brains are fried. That they cannot see that the Clintons are souless and have no moral compass, that their God is politics and will say and do whatever it takes to get back to the white house. Rush Limbaugh was wrong to ask Republicans to cross over to vote for Hillary. We want to be done with the Clintons once and for all and Texas could have been the beginning of the end.

Oh Oh Mr Kotter - can we revote in Texas and Ohio too? Then when Hillary doesn't win there, then Wisconsin and Florida won't matter.

There are no do overs because you don't like the rules that didn't work out for you.

Wisconsin and Florida need to throw out the heads of the state Democratic party for flushing their voices down the drain in order to get some of the Super Turd day cash.

Next time, they will know better than to think that they can bend the rules and then call do over.

Re DSG (comment #2): Florida and Michigan both had primaries, not caucuses.

Re Jeff (comment #4): Why don't you come up with a way to hold the election for free? (And while we're at it, lunch is on you tomorrow, right?)

Hillary has won in states where only DEMOCRATS can vote in the primary.

Hmm.... do you think it's because republicans have tried to tilt the campaign to Obama (he even uses stories of "Republicans vote for me" on the stump)? They know that black man will NOT get the vote.

If women (51%) of the population cannot elect one of their own in 238 years, can a man representing only 15% of the population in this (Rodney King, OJ, Michael Richards, Mel Gibson) racist country?

But then again, Obama is one of those (mixed raced) blacks who are allowed to succeed, like Halle Berry, Mariah Carey, Derek Jeter and others who aren't full black.

LISSA-ST.LOUIS,MO...Obama wasn't even a US Senator when the Iraq vote happened so it's very easy for him to say "I was against the war since Day 1." FYI, I live in Chicago, so I know his claims to be false. Since this is the case, perhaps you shouldn't vote in November.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your idiotic post.

If you want to blame anybody, blame the leftist-run CIA for providing bad intelligence.

As a Floridian I have no problem paying for a revote as long as the DNC guarantees that we can hold our primary whenever we want and not lose our delegates. Barring this agreement, I am not willing to pay for another vote. But if the DNC, Obama or Hillary wants to fork over the 30 million or so for one. Cool

The persons in Florida and Michigan who knew the rules and scheduled the primaries anyway are responsible for this mess. They have disenfrachised their own people. They can not act like spolied children and demand their way. They need to accept responsibility and either come up with their own plans for resolving this, or face the consequences of their intentional violation of the rules.

They gambled foolishly and they lost. They assumed that Super Tuesday would be the end of things and didn't want to be left out. They put the best interests of their voters on the table and rolled the dice. They threw snake eyes and now they want someone else to save them from their own folly. Doesn't work in Vegas, won't work in Denver.

Thanks for nothing Howard Dean for not letting my vote count in the Florida Primary. I am
sitting out the November election. Let it be on your head if the Democrats Lose!

UNREAL!!!!! A RE-VOTE????????????? The DNC should be the ones footing the bills for any re-vote debacle.

Rules are rules are rules. Unless you are a Democrat that is.

The Dems sure are in a tizzy, aren't they? Love it! I sure hope we don't have to listen to any screaming from old Howard.

When is Florida going to start getting things right so we don't have to revisit every single freakin' election??????????

Every year it gets worse and worse.

Posted by Joe | March 5, 2008 8:03 PM

1) Obama won't wear an American flag lapel pin while running for President of the US?

2) Obama won't put his hand over his heart for the National Anthem or Pledge of Allegiance while running for President of the US?

3) Pay attention to Rezko and Auchi...
-------------------------------------------

He is a Muslim, too. Was head pupil in a (Wahabi?)madrassa. And got endorsed by Farrakhan...

i love all this conflict...i'm waiting to see blood on the podium as billiary and big O fight it out...
mccain wil be the benefactor...fight on democrats!

i love all this conflict...i'm waiting to see blood on the podium as billiary and big O fight it out...
mccain wil be the benefactor...fight on democrats!

The persons in Florida and Michigan who knew the rules and scheduled the primaries anyway are responsible for this mess. They have disenfrachised their own people. They can not act like spolied children and demand their way. They need to accept responsibility and either come up with their own plans for resolving this, or face the consequences of their intentional violation of the rules.

They gambled foolishly and they lost. They assumed that Super Tuesday would be the end of things and didn't want to be left out. They put the best interests of their voters on the table and rolled the dice. They threw snake eyes and now they want someone else to save them from their own folly. Doesn't work in Vegas, won't work in Denver.

i love all this conflict...i'm waiting to see blood on the podium as billiary and big O fight it out...
mccain wil be the benefactor...fight on democrats!

*
Anyone who ever thought the Clintons, known for dirty tricks and backdoor deals, would play by the rules deserves what the Clintons represent, self serving, elitist, avarice.

These two belong in jail and no where near the honor of representing America and Americans.

*bert

*

Sean, why should a hand full of people in NH, and the bartering in IA set who will be the leaders of our parties?

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/

Florida tried to convince the DNC that "the rules" should be adjusted to reflect realities of current day populations. Florida is one of the fastest growing Congressional regions in the country, why should it not have more standing than a state with less population than ONE of Florida's CITIES?

Sorry, the DNC began this problem in 2005/2006. The knew Florida's opposition to adding tiny states after the IA and NH caucus/primaries but before Super Tuesday, and raised their middle finger.

Well, Floridians have fingers too, and here's one for the DNC!

Hillary left her name on ballot in Michigan and campaigned in Florida even though she knew they wouldn't count? I don't think so i think she did it deliberately in event of a close race where every delegate matters. The Clinton's are political machines who know how to play the system to get whatever they want. I still think she will be the Dem nominee but it will be by stealing the election.

Look at the Voting in New York....you mean to seriously tell me Obama got 0 votes in Harlem? The great for people like the Clinton's is electronic voting machines are like most computers they only do what they are told to do. By fixing elections only in some states the Clinton's hoped it would be enough to win outright, they were wrong so now comes lets change the rules to win.

I am a retard who likes to spread debunked rumors because my candidates of choice -- Hillary and McLame -- have no principles.

My apologies.

-Jeff

"THE FACTS:

1) this is NOT changing the rules in the middle of the game, the Dem rules remain in effect as they were written and it is fair the Dems are following those rules.

2) the REPUBLICAN-CONTROLLED Florida Legislature chose to set the Fla primary early in deliberate contravention of the rules to DISENFRANCHISE democrats"


Your facts are wrong. Read the bill. All the democrats voted for it, two republicans did not.


"I'll sue.. We already had an election. Its over, the M O N E Y is spent

Not with my tax money.."


$27 million appropriated, to be precise.


"IM TIRED OF EVERYBODY FIGHTING I LOST SOMEONE CLOSE TO ME IN THIS WAR.I BLAME THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR IT.ALL THE REPUBLICANS THINK ABOUT IS THERE MONEY AND HOW THEY CAN KEEP GETTING RICHER.SEND ONE OF YOUR CHILDREN TO FIGHT AND THEY DONT COME HOME.BUT YOU HAVE A PRESIDENT DANCE ON TV AND THESE KIDS ARE DYING.IF YOU BREAK THE RULES THAN LIVE WITH YOUR DECISION.DONT CAHNGE THE RULES THAT AGAINST THE LAW. THAT MEANS OUR KIDS DIED IN VAIN.AND FOR THAT I HOPE THEY ALL BURN IN HELL."

Yet another reason to ban internet access in libraries.

So Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania all got to run at the end of the election cycles so they could figure out how to cheat just enough to steal it?

If they are so worried about disenfranchising voters, simply allow Hillary 50% of democratic delegates and Obama 50% of democratic delegates for Florida and Michigan. Problem solved! It won't help them get ahead of each other, but it will satisfy the voters.

I know the facts about Obama and Rezko, I'm from Chicago and it's been in the local press for a year. They were acquaintances, Obama was buying a house, and Rezko is a real estate developer. He asked him to look at the house. He couldn't afford the whole parcel so Rezko offered to buy part of it and resell it later. It was, as Obama said, boneheaded to let a person who does fundraising for you do this sort of personal favor. But there's nothing illegal about it, and in a year of digging nobody has found that Obama did any favors for Rezko in return. Basically, there's no story here.

Perhaps, all of the right wing propaganda about Hillary was right all along???????

For the real inside story about Mrs. Clinton
see the trailer on Youtube "Hillary The Movie"

Obama on Rezko deal: It was a mistake

U.S. Sen. Barack Obama expressed regret late Friday for his 2005 land purchase from now-indicted political fundraiser Antoin "Tony" Rezko in a deal that enlarged the senator's yard.

"I consider this a mistake on my part and I regret it," Obama told the Chicago Sun-Times in an exclusive and revealing question-and-answer exchange about the transaction.

In June 2005, Obama and Rezko purchased adjoining parcels in Kenwood. The state's junior senator paid $1.65 million for a Georgian revival mansion, while Rezko paid $625,000 for the adjacent, undeveloped lot. Both closed on their properties on the same day.

Last January, aiming to increase the size of his sideyard, Obama paid Rezko $104,500 for a strip of his land.
The transaction occurred at a time when it was widely known Tony Rezko was under investigation by U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald and as other Illinois politicians befriended by Rezko distanced themselves from him.

In the Sun-Times interview, Obama acknowledged approaching Rezko about the two properties being up for sale and that Rezko developed an immediate interest. Obama did not explain why he reached out to Rezko given the developer's growing problems.

Last month, Rezko was indicted for his role in an alleged pay-to-play scheme designed to fatten Gov. Blagojevich's political fund. Rezko also was accused of bilking a creditor.

"With respect to the purchase of my home, I am confident that everything was handled ethically and above board. But I regret that while I tried to pay close attention to the specific requirements of ethical conduct, I misgauged the appearance presented by my purchase of the additional land from Mr. Rezko," Obama said.

"It was simply not good enough that I paid above the appraised value for the strip of land that he sold me. It was a mistake to have been engaged with him at all in this or any other personal business dealing that would allow him, or anyone else, to believe that he had done me a favor," the senator said.

The land deal came up in a court hearing Friday that delved into Rezko's finances. Obama said he has not been approached by federal prosecutors about the transaction nor has plans to go to them about it.

Obama and Rezko have been friends since 1990, and Obama said the Wilmette businessman raised as much as $60,000 for him during his political career. After Rezko's indictment, Obama donated $11,500 to charity--a total that represents what Rezko contributed to the senator's federal campaign fund.

Consider Florida's early primary's as a workers strike. They stood up against the 2 big political parties for their rights to have a say in the decision of who should be picked as the parties nominees.

And Democrats did what any good big business would do, they said "You don't play by our rules you get nothing."

Kal...you're a genius. Very nice!

Obama can push the Ejection Button anytime on the Democratic Party by threatening to go Independent, in the Fall. Any shenanigans by the DNC and he can always walk, taking his voters with him. As an Independent myself, Obama's main appeal is his anti-establishment attitude. The DEM platform of protectionism, excess profits-taxes on Energy companies (a truly failed strategy to solve our energy problems) and support for the Teacher's Union are the kinds of things I can only stomach as long as they are wrapped in a package of the Statesman. As I hate the Republicans, and cannot stomach the DEMS, all I want is to see the status quo get hit, and hit hard.

But regardless of my own feelings about this, the data is resoundingly clear: Hillary Clinton cannot win a general election against John McCain--absent of outlier events, beyond the standard distribution of probabilities. Anyone who has studied the data comes to the same conclusion. It's not hard. It' easy to see.

Wow, the party is just itching to get Clinton on the ticket any way possible. Florida & Michigan are whining. It's amusing because she can not win in November based on favorable/unfavorable polling data. It's a fact of modern political science that you have to be polling at least 5% favorables over unfavorables to be viable. Clinton regularly polls HIGHER unfavorables. Why do you think the Republicans are trying to get her nominated?

She'd be doomed even before she started a general election campaign.

Democracts as a whole are a pretty ill informed bunch. I laugh everytime one opens their mouth. What do they want,free healthcare, free lunch, free daycare, most do not pay taxes but still want a refund check. I am not sure but I think Chavez has committed as super delegate for "the Hill".

If Hillary wins the nomination as a result of what I deem to be improper tactics and clearly disingenuous positing I will either a) stay home for the general election, b) vote for Nadar or c) vote for McCain (gasp!).

Somebody tell me where else in life you can establish rules and then rewrite them later.

It's like saying "here's the finish line," ...everyone stops after they cross it except for one person ...after the race you say,"change in rules, this is now the finish line."

Kind of a lame example, ..I know. All I'm saying is how could this ever be considered fair? What about Edwards... If he campaigned in Florida could he have won it? would that have given him the momentum to be a contender?

If they allow this it is just another example of why a Democrat is to not be trusted. They don't live in a real world and they speak out of both sides of their mouth.

The DNC CHANGED THE RULES in 2006! The DNC could have left the process as it has been for almost fifty years, IA, NH then Super Tuesday, and all would have been fine.

The DNC decided to change the rules, adding a caucus and a primary after IA and NH but before Super Tuesday.

See: http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/

The state parties cried foul to the DNC and the DNC said "screw you!"

COUNT ALL THE VOTES!

The Russians just had an election in which the party leaders selected the nominee and winner before the election was even held.

The DNC is make a very good imitation of the same process.

The democratic voter in Florida and Michigan will feel that they were robbed of their vote by the DNC. The state of Florida should not bailout the DNC. The democrats should to protest by staying at home during the election or voting for McCain.

Being from the state of Michigan I have been confused from the start for the need of an early primary election. For what reason? Our Governor, previously our Attorney General violated the Democratic Party Committee rules and supported this "illegal" primary. Accordingly, law abiding Obama and Edwards pulled their names off the ballot leaving only Hillary Clinton. How convenient! Appears our governor is stacking the deck and playing a game of dirty politics.
Bill

I believe Bush caused this entire mess for the Democrat Party. He setup the rules to screw my party. Perhaps Karl Rove quit working for Bush simply to setup these rules? Maybe Martians changed the rules...where's Kucinich when we need him?

But, I also believe Bush is the dumbest man in the world. He can't be this smart...

Long live the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.

Those two Arkansas Grifters will tear down the democratic party with their blind ambition. This is a political couple that bathed in sleaze and scandal. When President Hillary answers that red phone at 3:00 a.m. it will be from the Park Police informing her that Bill was arrested for indecent exposure in Rock Creek Park.

Why don't you folks have a button to report offensive comments? You have several in there.

I've never understood in the first place how a political party can stampede over state's rights to hold a vote whenever they want to. The DNC has created this quagmire. I applaud that Dean will not change the rules, but the rules were bogus to begin with and voters in Florida and Michigan were disenfranchised. Wasn't this the hue and cry of the the Democrats in Election 2000?

At any rate, the voters of both states should be allowed a do over. Hillary should not be able to claim the delegates because she didn't play by the rules. I'm an Obama supporter, but Edwards might well still have been in the race if the national party hadn't monkeyed with the works.

Here's proof that American "Democracy" continues to be so far removed from government "By the People." People that died in the Revolutionary War could well be shedding tears.

Now, Democracy is in the hands of PARTIES, INC. which is a holding company of Special Interests Inc.

I want satisfaction! I want my vote to count! I want Democracy by Majority Vote, not "Superman delegates." Pollsters get out of our way. Statistics DO lie in the spinners of the media. America is failing in its core strength. Get back to what we ARE or, we won't have any substance left. The World hoped in our credibility as a Democracy at one time, not in our economic might.

America! What you do, what you earn, what you hold, where you originated should have no bearing what so ever, in the quality of your vote. But those that have, those that pronounce, those that control, have diluted that sacred right.

I am only a tiny blogger in the star system. Are there other stars out there? Is there no hope, or are we like civilizations gone by destined for the trash heap of time?

The solution is to seat the delegates already elected by 2 million people and fire Howard Daen for his arrogance which got us into this mess

Eugene Boyanton, simply love the last sentence of your comment. Good one :-)

McCain is a serial cheater.
Obama is a weak addict (cocaine, now smoking).
Hillary is a woman.

Hillary is the only one with enough balls to stand up to McCain. Obama will wilt like his wife's floppy titties.

Bill, you state tried to stop the DNC from changing the rules in the first place, so to did my state party/legislature.

Check out what the DNC did before blaming your own state officials, and protecting the crap the DNC did.

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/

If the DNC left the rules the same way they have been working for the last 10+ primary cycles, this problem would not exist today

HAHAHAH, a Mulligan for Thrillary.......everyone knows it.....she has been planning her first on the Union screech all along

McCain is a serial cheater.
Obama is a weak addict (cocaine, now smoking).
Hillary is a woman.

Hillary is the only one with enough balls to stand up to McCain. Obama will wilt like his wife's floppy titties.

First off, all the anti-liberal/Democrat talk is just plain annoying. Neither party has a monopoly on idea's or being right and certainly the Republicans are just as guilty, if not guiltier, as the Democrats of "changing the rules in the middle of the game". Retroactive immunity for the telecoms ring a bell? What about the numerous signing statements that void parts of bills passed by Congress? Republicans trying to remove the filibuster when Democrats wanted to use it and then turning around and using it themselves after the 2006 elections? It's much easier to not change the rules in the middle of the game when you simply don't follow the rules at all. Anyway, this is meat for another discussion.

Florida and Michigan both knew long before their primaries took place that their delegates would not get seated. Nobody knew at the time that Obama would become as popular and win as many primaries as he has. The decision to not seat their delegates was not anti-Hillary or pro-Obama. It was a reaction the the states pushing their primaries to an earlier date and thus breaking party rules. There was no after the fact. They were told outright that if they did this, they would be voided. I realize that this effectively cuts the voices of a lot of voters in both states. They should have used their voices in protest long before the state's primaries were held. If I had lived in one of those two states, you can bet I would have raised some hell.

That said, the states wanting their primaries to happen earlier was just plain stupid. It reeks of the "I want to be popular" mentality you see in high school. The anger of the people should not be directed at the DNC in general, but rather the officials in charge at the state level that voted to allow this to happen.

Howard Dean has just proposed a compromise. That word might be alien to some Republicans used to getting their own way all the time so I'll give a quick definition. A compromise happens when you have two or more parties that each want something different. Since no side would ever be able to get everything they want, you concede a little bit so that nobody gets everything but everyone(ususally) atleast gets something. Compromises are usually born from discussion and negotiation. Republicans screaming "9/11 9/11, terrorist terrorists, socialism socialism, praise jesus praise jesus" does not equal discussion or negotiation.

Anyhow, Howard Dean made a decision that is fair to everyone involved whether they see it that way or not. If you want to blame anyone for this, blame the state officials that allowed this to happen, whether they be Republican or Democrats, because stupidity is party-less.

I don't see how they could allow FL & MI to do a revote and maintain any ability to make State Parties abide by the rules established by the DNC. Losing their delegates was supposed to be a punishment for breaking said rules.

THE CLINTON WANT THE WHITEHOUSE IN THE WORSE WAY AN THEY WILL FIND A WAY TO GET BACK IN THERE IF THEY HAVE TO KILL FOT IT

we want to blame clinton and obama but lets place the blame where it belongs with dean... I mean he not alone took the florida delagates away but said to ever florida voter to hell with you . your vote don't count. he is doing what bush did in 2000. well congrads dean. you have now becamee bush;s equal when it comes to voteing... I thought as dems we were suposed to pull together not be devided like the republicians did. and now he is blameing the states because of all the nonsence going on ... well it was not the states who desides to void florida voters of their votes. it was dean///

Roosevelt lost the Ohio Primary in 1944. Screw Ohio. Obama has to call her on her phony "experience" and her husband's corrupt regime.

The Democrats; Duping voters since the 1900's.

This makes me so bitter and angry when I read this. Howard Dean should be the first to realize that the reality based community and far-left members of the Democratic Party -- people like me who read firedoglake and are secure in their gender identity -- will have the final say on whether it is Hillary or Obama. Angry bitter leftists have been using the Internet for years to promote our way of thinking ... and it is a shame Howard Dean doesn't understand that.

More comedy from the dhimmi's. Count every vote and every vote counts, except. No need to worry about the military overseas. The two democrats serving their country will forgive them.

OK, this idea that the Republicans in the Florida legislature conspired to put the Democrats in this fix is starting to come up more often. What I want to know is this: Why could Florida Dems not have had their primary on a different day from the Repubs, as was the case in (at least) the following states:

South Carolina
Wyoming
West Virginia

Anybody?

Why doesn't the "Democratic" party respect the citizens of each state enough to let us decide when and how we pick our delegates? They are behaving in a very un-democratic way.

This is a no-win situation for us now in Michigan. Seat Michigan delegates using the Jan. results and those who would have voted against Clinton are still disenfranchised since DNC decisions resulted in not having other democratic candidates on our ballot. Furthermore, many democratic voters voted a republican ticket, (since that ballot would at least count as half a vote). Michigan could hold a caucus in the coming months, but the many dems who voted republican may still be disenfranchised if they are not allowed to participate. Either way, the DNC holds the dubious distinction of having told the Michigan people, "Your votes do not count".

The right to vote is one of my most cherished rights. The DNC is pissing on that whole principle of democracy, so they can go whine about their rules and "super delegates" out of the white house when people like me decide not to vote for their un-democratically selected candidate.

http://www.geeskaafrika.com/komo_somalikenya.jpg


Proof that Obama is a Muslim. You won't find an American flag pin on that outfit.

I wouldn't be surprised if Obama had some AK mags under there...

We Dems. really have only two choices here:
1. Make this process as fair as we can going forward - whatever the cost. Perhaps the two campaigns and the DNC could agree to supplement the cost of a second primary(between them the two remaining candidates have what- $260M?)
2. Be ready to accept what will surely follow. Possible criticisms might include:
* Gender discrimination;
* Age discrimination;
* "Obamandering";
* "Process Rigging";
* Corruption;
* Disorganization;
* or worse ...
Imagine the field day the pundits will have - and how could we blame them? They'll call Barack the DNC's "hand-picked" candidate - how undemocratic!

One more thing: Whatever you think of McCain, he seems like a pretty decent guy, so why all of the nastiness? Consider what will it might cost us if we don't appear as to be decent as he does ...

Nate, go to the library and actually READ the Constitution and learn what "advise and consent" means. Filibustering nominations violates the "advise and consent" clause defined as the role of the Senate.

And, when a government official walks into a telcom weeks to months with a warrant after the largest attack on America since Pearl Harbor, I expect the telcom to cooperate fully. They should not be sued now, years later for their doing the right thing that actually did stop follow on attacks.

Stop reciting rhetoric and learn the facts of recent history. But, I suspect you believe Sept. 11th was "an inside job" too.

The democrats changing the rules in the middle of the game, SURELY YOU JEST !!! That trailer trash from Arkansas/New York will get their way.

Can't dems follow ANY rules without changing them mid-stream?

The solution to this Hillary situation is simple. someone just needs to give it to her in the butt good and hard. Trouble is, who'd actually be wiling to do that?

Seems to me that what is forgotten is that the voters didn't do anything wrong. It seems that Dean could find a better way of telling them to pucker up.
I am sure the Republican party would welcome them with open arms.

Seems to me that what is forgotten is that the voters didn't do anything wrong. It seems that Dean could find a better way of telling them to pucker up.
I am sure the Republican party would welcome them with open arms.

"That word might be alien to some Republicans used to getting their own way all the time so I'll give a quick definition."

Brilliant commentary. The Republicans lost the U.S. Congress in 2006, and dear Nate thinks this means the Republicans get their way all the time, and then goes on to lecture about compromise and nonpartisanship, listing only things the Republicans have done wrong, which he somehow thinks bolsters his arguments about how reasonable and nonpartisan he is.

I'll grant him one thing though: He was right that "stupidity is party-less", as he himself so clearly demonstrated ....

Easy cure for this whole mess. Vote republican like you have a brain that isn't under control of Howling Howie.

In any agreement Michigan and Florida delegations must agree to move their Primary Dates back from the ones they adopted for 2008. It is only fair to stay consistent with Democratic Party Policies and Procedures. Just because this is a close election they should not rewarded for changing their dates in the first place. After all this is why they were unseated in the first place. Now they in the position of actually deciding this election by changing the rules and election dates in the first place, this should not happen unless they agree to later dates they squabbled over earlier!

I guess the democrats are now seeing the Clintons for what they really are. Of course the rest of the country has known this for years. The Clintons only care about themselves. I knew Ohio voters were stupid enough to vote for her, but thought Texas was smarter than that. Let this thing play out and Clinton will destroy the DEMOCRAT Party, I mean with her and the dimwit Howard Dean how long can it last. Lets just keep re-voting until she gets what she wants..What a joke gotta love it !!

Clinton donor wanted by FBI in scheme to funnel money

Robin Fields and Chuck Neubauer,

Los Angeles Times, March 3, 2007

A Pakistani immigrant who hosted fundraisers in Southern California for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton is being sought by the FBI on charges that he funneled illegal contributions to Clinton’s political action committee and Sen. Barbara Boxer’s 2004 reelection campaign. Authorities say Northridge businessman Abdul Rehman Jinnah, 56, fled the country after an indictment accused him of engineering more than $50,000 in illegal donations to the Democratic committees. A business associate charged as a co-conspirator has entered a guilty plea and is scheduled to be sentenced in Los Angeles next week…

The case has transformed Jinnah from a political point man on Pakistani issues, a man often photographed next to foreign dignitaries and U.S. leaders, into a fugitive with his mug shot on the FBI’s “featured fugitives” wanted list. Jinnah’s profile peaked in 2004 and 2005 as he wooed members of Congress to join a caucus advancing Pakistani concerns and brought Clinton to speak to prominent Pakistani Americans, lauding their homeland’s contributions to the war on terrorism and calling relations with Pakistan beneficial to U.S. interests.

Jinnah and his family donated more than $100,000 to the Democratic Party and Democratic candidates. Now friends say they believe Jinnah has returned to Pakistan. Attempts to reach him and his relatives were unsuccessful. A “For Sale” sign stood in his yard on Thursday, and a neighbor said the family had not lived there for months.

Wherever a Clinton is, there will be division and bitterness. That's just the way it is. The Clintons are like those people who always foster dysfunctional relationships: it's just their nature.

It's time to reject Hillary.

There's always money in the banana stand.

That is one of the funniest references to the late great Arrested Development I have ever read.

George Bleuth might as well be running the Florida Democratic Party.

That's what the big states get for trying to win a war of wills with a man with a serious Napoleon complex.

Vive l'empereur!

Make no mistake that Hillary Clinton and her gang of criminals have been attempting every shady, corrupt act in order to try to get the nomination for the Democratic Party. We have heard the little stories here and there and the introduction of questionable photos and information in the media to try to discredit Obama...even put an association out there with "Osama" and fear (intolerance) of muslims to make people vote for Hillary. Is there anything this woman and her people won't do to win? They made sure that in Florida and Michigan where the DNC was not having a caucus or primary that their people had polling places opened ANYWAY and only Hillary voters contacted to come vote. The word spread anyway which is why Obama supporters got their voice in...but it was not a full state caucus that was fair to every citizen of that state and therefore both states not only should not revote..but be exempt from the numbers needed by both candidates for the DNC. What happened in those two states was criminal and undemocratic on any level.

And this is the year I decided to support the Democratic party instead of the Republicans!! I changed my affiliation and belief with the emergence of this man Barrack Obama who holds the promise of real change and real results...a new strong voice in a government that is really in the control of special interest and corporations.

Bush paid Rezco to set up Obie-One. How do you know the proporty next door to Obie-One's is worth more than 100K. It's in a dumpstate. Ron Pal's voting for O, so is JFK, and Ronald Reagan. As a matter of fact I heard Allmyjihad is too. And furthermore Fidel Castro is making one last vote...for O. See, that proves O is honest.

Hillary cries and get her way again. What a wonderful example for us feminists. You have to play by the rules. You can't change the rules in the middle of the game. If Obama had 12 straight losses what would be the outcry for him to drop out? All she has done is lie and lie. She will stop at nothing in her thirst for power. Her voting base is the prejudiced and ignorant, who are swallowing the tales she is feeding the press about Obama hook, line and sinker. And in our country, that is a huge amount of people. This race is between the educated and and ignorant. And one more thing, if being first Lady counts as experience to be President, perhaps Barbara Bush can run next term. I like her better than Hillary.

It is a sham for the taxpayers to pay for party activities, not just this waste. The Libertarians and Greens need a level playing field.... or at least fair election rules that doesn't use their tax money against them.

When the DNC decided to spank Michigan and Florida they had no idea they were letting the bull out of the pen. Now they are at a loss as to how to get the monster back in. Changing rules in midstream is typical Clintonesque and having Howard Dean along for the ride only expounds on the ridiculousness of the situation.
Will the democrats never learn? I wonder how many people will be committing suicide over this gaffe. I believe a ruling has already been made, right? Stick with it you bunch of jelly spines.
Destruction of the party will be your fault, Dean!
The Clintons will stand back and point their fingers in your direction. Then you can screeeaaam again.

Hey there, what a lot of anger. No one seems to have a solution that gives ALL candidates an opportunity to run for the two states. Mr. Dean says they can, but; who pays? Do the states have to make-over the elections because their "Power Brokers" broke with the DNC? Why not let the guilty elected officials pay for the vote-over from their personal campaign war chests? Hillary can not be given delegates by the DNC, since she went against the decision they made; (openly campaigning and inviting the voters support, and now asking them to be allowed....because she won them....because she was ON the ballot) and Obama should not be denied the delegates because he played by the rules. The rules the decision making committee inacted. Dean is boss or Billary is boss, maybe that's the true vote.

Hey there, what a lot of anger. No one seems to have a solution that gives ALL candidates an opportunity to run for the two states. Mr. Dean says they can, but; who pays? Do the states have to make-over the elections because their "Power Brokers" broke with the DNC? Why not let the guilty elected officials pay for the vote-over from their personal campaign war chests? Hillary can not be given delegates by the DNC, since she went against the decision they made; (openly campaigning and inviting the voters support, and now asking them to be allowed....because she won them....because she was ON the ballot) and Obama should not be denied the delegates because he played by the rules. The rules the decision making committee inacted. Dean is boss or Billary is boss, maybe that's the true vote.

Since when did the general public have the "RIGHT" to pick a certain party's presidential candidate?..The onus and ("legally")is on the party to pick there man or woman...The real and only vote comes in November..I wish Teddy Roosevelt was running this year!!

We can all vote in a general election on one day, why can't we all vote for primaries on one day?

Why should IA and NH be first? Why did the DNC DECIDE to CHANGE THE RULES used for the last 10+ primary cycles?
LINK: http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/

Better question is WHY IS ANYONE DEFENDING POLITICAL PARTIES?

Have Senator Lautenberg from New Jersey decide. He violated State Voting Regulations when he took Torricelli's (Remember the Torch) place through illegal means. Now there's a man of experience! Howard Dean's kind of guy.

I really need someone to explain Hillary's surrogates to me because their brains are wired in a way that just boggles my mind. I have heard at least five of her people come out today, and in one sentence say that if Obama wins the popular vote and the elected (pledged) delegates then it is perfectly fine for the super delegates override the will of the people and choose Hillary because those are the rules and you can't move the goal post after the game has started. Then in, literally the next sentence, argue that Fl. and Mi. should be able to seat their delegates and have them count as is, no re-do. What the heck! The rules as laid out by the DNC and all of the candidates were set before the game started, and now they want to move this goal post after the fact. This is the problem with the Clintons, they have no character, no honor, and neither do their surrogates. I mean they actually contradict themselves with straight faces and look hurt when they get called on it. Obama should go to court to stop her if she tries to seat those delegates. I'm sorry, but at some point, rules and character need to take a front seat to the Clinton's ambitions. I would like to point out that Mi. in particular held their primary very early on, and anyone who wanted to vote for Edwards or Biden or any of the other candidates who were still in the race at that time have already been disenfranchised, and even with only Hillary Clinton and something like "another option" on the ballot, she only won 55% to45%. If anyone can find the tape of Hillary in New Hampshire it would be great because she didn't think it mattered then and she definitely sided with NOT seating those delegates. If you do get a do-over, please send the Clintons back home to New York, I just can't take them anymore.

Hsu raised big money for Clinton supporters
Candidates she courted benefit
By Scott Helman, Globe Staff | September 26, 2007

Disgraced fund-raiser Norman Hsu did a lot more than just pump $850,000 into Hillary Clinton's campaign bank account: He also raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for local, state, and federal candidates who have endorsed Clinton or whose support she courted.

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A major fund-raiser for Democrats since 2003, Hsu became one of Clinton's biggest bundlers - gathering scores of individual checks and sending them to her campaign. But since revelations last month that Hsu was a fugitive in a 15-year-old California fraud case, Clinton has said she would return the $850,000 she has taken from him and his associates.

Will Hillary kill hope as she enjoys her reinvigorated spoiler role?

Here she is, a tool of the lobbyists, claiming she is the "people's" choice.

Hillary even refuses to release her tax returns for the past two years, which would reveal the source of her sudden wealth.

If Hillary claims experience in foreign affairs, then let her share responsibility for her husband's immoral inaction on Rwanda, when hundreds of millions of black Africans were slaughtered while the Clinton White House refused to act.

(According to the British Guardian newspaper: "President Bill Clinton's administration knew Rwanda was being engulfed by genocide in April 1994 but buried the information to justify its inaction, according to classified documents made available for the first time. ...

"It took Hutu death squads three months from April 6 to murder an estimated 800,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus and at each stage accurate, detailed reports were reaching Washington's top policymakers." [http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/mar/31/usa.rwanda])

For every comment the Clinton trained seals make about Hillary's favorite target--Rezko--it is important that people remember the reason Jimmy Carter's chief of staff, Hamilton Jordan, called the Clintons our "First Grifters."

Remember their ties to disgraced fugitive financier Norman Hsu?

Remember Bill’s supping at the trough of the emir of Dubai?

Speaking of the Middle East, remember Hillary's silence when Yassir Arafat's wife libeled the state of Israel?

Of course, the media bends over trying to accommodate Hillary; today the MSNBC talking heads explained that they have to tread softly because it is hard to criticise a woman.

National security and the fate of the country are apparently tied to some moronic political correctness from a media that did not exactly cover itself with glory when America was about to go to war.

Of course, today's media establishment cares as much about access to the red carpet as anyone else.

The legendary journalist Edward Murrow would have liked Barack Obama, because he also believed, like Obama himself has said, that cynicism is a sorry kind of wisdom.

Fight back America!

Believe in yourself!

Dems should revolt not revote!

I'm so glad Howard Dean is a Dem he runs the party like he ran his election Yeahhhhhhhhhhh!!!
Dem's you can kiss Florida goodbye
too bad y'all didn't understand he was a nutcase a while back with the famous Howard Dean scream
"and now we're going to Sc and Az and NM and Ca and then NY and Or and then we're going to Washington DC to take back the White House Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!"
Howard the only thing you're going back to is Vermont if they haven't kicked your stupid azz out!!

Correction: My previous post should have read "hundreds of thousands of black Africans," not "hundreds of millions"--people killed while the Clintons watched in silence.

First of all, this whole situation is just ridiculous. The process that democrats use to select delegates to the convention is a microcosm of their philosophy of government ( ie. they make the process so convoluted and complicated that it ceases to function or do what it was originally intended to do.) The republicans are more oriented towards "winner take all" primaries, and the result we have on the GOP side, is that somebody wins, and somebody loses. It needn't be that difficult! This situation is a DIRECT result of the dems' choice to use "proportional representation".

So now, you have a close delegate count with neither candidate likely to get the number of delegates neccesary to secure the nomination without cheating, do-overs, re-writing the rules in the middle of the contest, ignoring the rules altogether , or by scheming to sway the "super-delegates" - ie. the party bosses. This is a most undemocratic process being used by the democratic party!

The paralells to the 2000 fiasco are obvious. Again, it's a close race, and one candidate doesnt like the fact that under the rules that were agreed to at the beginning, they have lost. So now it's time to change the rules! Have a re-vote?! It's outrageous! What about the people who voted in florida the FIRST time? Are we throwing out all of those votes? Talk about disenfranchisement!

The proper thing to do here is to just abide by the rules that every candidate agreed to in the beginning- that Michigan and Florida delegates would not be seated because they failed to follow the rules. You cannot just "do it over" because you are behind in the delegate count and now you need to get some delegates from somewhere! Michigan and Florida knew the consequences of their actions when they did what they did, so screw em'.

People have accused George W. Bush of having been "selected not elected" because he had to sue Al Gore to stop the 4th or 5th re-counts in some florida counties. I dont agree, but if Hillary manages to get away with this outrage and wins the nomination and the presidency, surely she would be more rightly called "illegitimate", because she won by cheating. Democrats- is this how you want to elect a president?

I was a Romney supporter, and I'll probably wind up holding my nose and voting for MacCain, so as a republican, I honestly don't care whether Tweedle dee or Tweedle dum gets the democratic nomination, but I WOULD like to see the process be a fair one, simply as an American citizen. If I was an Obama supporter, I would be pissed with a capital "P" right now that Hillary is trying to seat the Florida and Michigan delegates with "do-over" elections. Screw that!!! Obama supporters, your guy is finding out just how ruthless the clintons are. Trust us republicans- we know that these folks play HARDBALL and that they will do WHATEVER IT TAKES to win. You guys had better be ready to get down and dirty if you are going to pull this out.

Honestly, If I was Obama, I would see how the rest of the primaries go and see if I was still ahead at the end of all this ( florida and michigan aside ). If Clinton then tries to steal this by having "do-over's",the Obama campaign should seriously consider marching right into federal court just like the bushies did in 2000. This CANT be legal to just invalidate the results of an election that has already been held!

Clinton makes loan to campaign via Dubai
Senator Obama raised more money than Senato Clinton in January by a 3 to 1 margin. The only way for the Clintons was to prop up their own campaign was through personal funds - to the tune of $5 million before Super Tuesday. Now just where does a Clinton get $5 million on such short notice? From a land far, far away where money is as abundant as the sands. Dubai. The Emir of Dubai is a close personal friend of the Clintons. In fact, Bill has been giving speeches there for over six years for around a half million each. Lately though, Bill has been an advisor for a company called UKEEPS that wanted the Emir's money so badly that it has reportedly paid the former President $10 million a year to keep the cash flowing. Bill was in charge of investing the Emir's moolah in this company. Mr. Clinton has never registered as an agent of a foreign company or government. Now for the kicker. The Clintons needed a jolt of fast cash to infuse into the campaign because donations had slowed while everyone jumped on Obama's wagon. There just happened to be a $20 million buyout clause in this little arrangement. The cash went from the Emir to Clinton's right pocket then presto changeo to the campaign of his wife. Can you say illegal boys and girls? But, hey what can you expect from this dynamic duo? It's just another day's work for those that crave the power of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. I heard once that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. You don't say?

I still cannot decide what is more important to me. Should I hope that Hillary reverses Obama's momentum so that it further destroys the Democratic party? Should I stick with my original hope that Hillary gets shown the door by her fellow Democrats? It's really a tough decision. The only thing tougher is trying to find out what Hillary has done for us New Yorkers. I'll settle for that answer because she took care of masking her 35 years of experience when Bill left office. That's a lost cause because no one has the guts to push her harder for disclosure.

Democrats, all I can say is this was your year to regain the White House. How you have managed to completely blow this is beyond me. Well, no it's not. You still have Hillary running for the nomination.

Entertaining as hell to tell you the truth.

the question "still-unanswered"..is when did the "delegates" super or otherwise lose there Control of the nominating process

Norm, remember my post. Florida will go for the Democratic party in November no matter who is nominated.

Florida historically votes for the incumbent, regardless of party, and the other party when there is no incumbent. Sounds weird, but look it up for yourself.

As a Florida Democrat, I was amazed so many should up to vote knowing their vote would not cound, but the did anyway.

Democratic party will take the White House, gain enough seats to have a veto proof House and get really close to having a veto proof Senate. Add the RINOs in the Senate to the Democrat caucus, and the Democratic party will control Congress and the White House January 20, 2009.

See, this is why the official symbol of the democrat party is the JACK@SS

Look, they can revote if they like. Obama will win Michigan, Hillary likely Florida. Not big margins, and no big net change.

So, HRC can either do this, or shut up.

The Democratic Party should simply tell The DNC--"seat us or we will abandon the Democrat Party and vote for John McCain". However,to solve the dilema, Obama should be asked to withdraw as he has no chance in H--- of winning the presidency of the United States. Hillary is an all American girl and deserves to be elected. People are now realizing that the Pig Farmers of Iowa were dumb enough to believe the Obama whores at MSNBC "news". This "polished" candidate has turned out to be an empty suit with only a following mostly of his on kind. It is over for him as his promoters and puppeteers have been unmasked. So Chris Matthews, Tucker, Schuster, Keith, Russert, Dannyboy, Mikita, Rachel, Brokaw and others--just shut up and go away. GE should clean house and employ news reporters with credibility and a sense of fairness.

Billy Dale had worked in the White House travel office for three decades. He had served 7 presidents and one horse's *ss (and we are not counting Jimmy Carter as the horse's *ss). But Hillary Clinton wanted Dale and his associates gone. She wanted him gone very badly. Harry Thomason was owed a big favor for getting rape victim Elizabeth Ward Gracen out of the country on an acting gig during the 1992 campaign.


What had Dale done to Hillary? The answer is he had done nothing. Dale and six others were simply in the way of her plans.


Most Americans do not know that during the 1992 campaign, the Clintons used an Arkansas travel agency, World Wide Travel. They worked with a Clinton cousin, Catherine Cornelius. WWT provided a million dollars in deferred travel for the Clinton campaign, freeing up much needed cash for campaigning. Employees of the firm donated to the Clinton campaign.


It gets even better. The supposed investigation against Travel Office "accounting improprieties" was headed by…..are you ready…headed by none other than Cornelius herself just as she was planning with World Wide Travel for a reorganization that would put her in charge of the department. She gets a good job and Thomasson gets a hugely profitable business.


The Clintons had every right to simply dismiss Dale and the others and bring in their own people. Hillary, the brains behind the operation, not only had Dale fired, but also tried to send him to prison. Firing was not good enough. In May of 1993 the employees were given one hour's notice to clean out their desks, and they were escorted away in a windowless van. The replacement was made without competitive bid.


Dale was very popular with the White House press corps. He knew them all and treated them very well. The firing and trumped-up charges against Dale became a public relations nightmare, so Hillary had to distance herself. Keeping in mind that the first instinct of the Clintons is always to lie, that is exactly what she did. She claimed that he had nothing to do with the firing.


The nightmare grew worse for Dale as the FBI was brought in and he was charged with embezzling money from the Travel Office. At one point, the cost of trial would have been so prohibitively expensive that Dale tried to do a plea bargain to just make it go away. Fortunately, the government did not accept a plea bargain. When it came to trial, Dale was acquitted by the jury in under 2 hours. What they did to him was in incredible injustice. Not surprisingly, as has happened to most of the Clinton enemies, the IRS also came after him.


There are, however, more twists and turns to this story that most of America has either forgotten or never knew. In December of 1993, a request was made by the White House for Dale's FBI file. The reason for the request was to evaluate Dale for "access to the building." What? He had been fired seven months earlier. The Clintons, of course, along with the rest of their criminal enterprise, blocked and misled investigators looking into the treatment of Dale.


While Hillary claimed not to be involved in the firing, the following information exists:

"periodic reports from Vince Foster that [the] First Lady had inquired about [the] Travel Office and why wasn't action being taken_report was that they should be fired immediately and out of here by the end of the day."
-- Subpoenaed notes of David Watkins.

"went to Mac . . . Hillary wants these people fired . . . Mac wouldn't do it ... DW [David Watkins] didn't want to do it."
-- Lorraine Voles, deputy Press Secretary, noted that she had heard Susan Thomases say.


"[Patsy] Thomason comes back in DW's [office]_says he bumped into Hillary and she's ready to fire them all that day.''
-- Mr. Watkins' contemporaneous handwritten notes detail a conversation that he had with Harry Thomason.

"Harry says his people can run things better; save money, etc. And besides we need those people out_we need our people in_We need the slots_ . . . Is the real story to be told?''
-- David Watkins notes of a conversation with the First Lady on May 14, 1993.


Yes, Hillary was in this thing up to her eyeballs. It was abuse of power and an attempt to ruin the life of a civil servant. She was behind Travelgate just as she has been behind almost every abuse of power we witnessed for eight excruciatingly long years.


Robert Ray, who succeeded Ken Starr, apparently thought that an indictment of Hillary for perjury would not be good on his resume as he planned to seek elective office. One more gutless prosecutor and Hillary remains free.

I guess all these a-hole Reeps are here from the Sludge report. I didn't think you neanderthals usually read the Atlantic. It's not on your grade 3 reading level.

I love the way The DNC has disenfranchised 2 entire states. After the YEARS of moaning about being ripped off in 2000 by the big bad Republicans........

Great work Howard!

What a bunch of Rubes! ROTFLMAO


The Democratic Primary:
A Rubics Cube with no outcome, a maze with no exit;

If the democratic primary is an example of the leadership we would see if a democrat were elected pres. Then we are doomed as a nation.

A mindless Pelosi,Reid congress that gave us absolutley and completely nothing, except Reid's "we have lost the war", after being swept into office by a mandate, colluding with a Democrat President is i'm afraid more than our Republic can bear...
God Help Us.

The party of count every vote, dimpled chads, and pregnant chad, now want to toss out the vote of over 2 million voters? This is so funny you can’t make this stuff up. I as a member of the G.O.P. just love to watch you eat your own as the whole country watches in disbelief. Get the popcorn ready the convention it’s going to be fun 8))

The joke about this UNDemocratic National Committee and its left wing Leader Dean is that not only is it wrong that Florida and Michigan voters are cheated.

The REAL travesty is that if they were using the truly democratic rules used by the REPUBLICAN PARTY to conduct their primaries where the MAJORITY RULES, Hillary Clinton would have a lead in pledged delegates of almost 600 DELEGATES!!!!
But the :new" politics of Obama and Dean are no different than the politics of Tammany Hall. By allocating proportional delegates and Superdelegates who decide in back rooms all around Washington and State Capitals, the will of the people of each state is subverted.
That almost 600 delegate lead Hillary would have doesn't include Superdelegates. If Superdelagates were also awarded by majority rule in each state, her lead would be 850 delegates.
So using democratically inspired rule of the majority vote getter receiving all of the delegates for each state won, sho would have 1,910 delegates right now. Which only would leave her needing 115 delegates in order to win the nomination. Since her chances of winning Pennsylvania are almost as good as her chances were in Ohio because her lead in the polls are about 9% currently, those 158 delegates could possibly have put her over the top if the Democrat party were actually DEMOCRATICALLY run.

So all of you Obama worshippers who say she should drop out are crazy. Why should she drop out when the majority of DEMOCRAT voters across this nation have voted for her by a majority of almost 3 million votes over Obama so far?

The Democratic party is having the "chickens comming home to roost" over their undemocratic practices on these primaries throughout the years! The practice and rules they have set up are so undemocratic you would think that they would be ashamed of it all. The people of Florida and Michigan are now considered nothing in the sight of the Democratic Dictators! No Democratic person submits to these crazy ideas or policies!! In fact, I predict the Democrats in both of those States and other places also will vote Republican over this issue! YOu can bet on that! I am one!!! I am sick and tired of these little democratic dictators who are tearing up our party! Those despotic men and women need to be taken out of the party leadership and sent home!

Lamar Carnes
Texas

Jim, what does your comment have to do with the subject? I know this is difficult for you, so I will provide you with a reminder. The subject is the voting in Florida and Michigan Democrat primaries. Should they be allowed or should they have to revote?

I think that one of the earlier commenters ( Shawn H. ) made a really great point about it probably being no coincidence that Hillary chose to violate the candidate agreements and left her name on the ballot in Michigan when everybody else left theirs off, also, she campaigned in Florida when others didnt. Believe me,the Clintons planned all this from day one as a last resort. They knew that it would probably come down to her and one other candidate, and that if it was close and things werent looking too good, they would have the option to pull these shenanigans for a few extra delegates. The Clintons play HARDBALL folks. It's not about anything but WINNING!

Iowa, NH, Nevada and South Carolina go first because of tradition and it's the rules. Get it right, idiots.

Alright, take money away from all the residents of Michigan and Florida to pay for the stupidity of a few, what will suffer? Roads? Homeless shelters? Help for kids? And all for a job that pays what, 400,000 a year. Something wrong here!

as a tax paying Florida citizen I resent that Floridians might have to revote! Why should Floridians absorb the cost to revote when all the democratic candidates agreed to "punish" the Fl delegates because the Florida primary was moved up? The democrats knew well in advance there would be no delegate count, nor seating at the democratic convention after the primary voting
( the dems. idea of punishment I guess ). The democratic party is their own worst enemy right now! Making fools of themselves. And Hillary is the leader of their foolishness, whatever it takes for her to get the nomination, that's her goal.
Jay

I am a Florida voter. I am PISSED OFF that the REPUBLICAN governor of Florida had the final say on when we voted. Was this a set up? Who the hell decided the early date for Michigan? Was a REPUBLICAN governor there too? Howard Dean "blames" the democratic party but they are not the ones who chose the dates for Florida and Michigan.

I would heartily support any lawsuit if I am denied my vote counting NO MATTER WHOSE FAULT IT IS. I suppose the responsible person is whoever had the final say on the actual day to vote. THAT person should be accountable to every Florida voter. Same for Michigan.

I think I need to move to a state that has leaders with common sense. Are there any out there?

Actually, Ty
Obama campaigned in Florida. Hillary did not.
This has been confirmed by CNN, MSNBC, and Fox.

Jerks.

The Democrats have to be kicking themselves for ever appointing King Howard to the post. This entire exercise from the way delegates or awarded to the FL and MI debacles has been an absolute disaster!

Ken, I am all with you. This is ridiculous. SEAT OUR DELEGATES NOW HOWARD DEAN!

Great response by Jim at 9:10pm. Exactly why your party is in the toilet. Instead of evaluating the situation and determining a course of action you play the redirection game and insult others. Take responsibility for something, never, that's not how we do it in the donkey party.

Jac,
The republican party also punished Florida for voting early. However, they did not give them the death penalty.

Ty, Kucinich was on the MI ballot too. Kinda trashes your theory. As a Florida Democrat, I can assure you Hillary did not campaign in Florida, but she did raise a lot of money in Miami parties. So did Biden, so did Edwards (if my memory serves me well.)

Senator Clinton was being realistic, knowing there was not way millions of votes would not be counted, no matter what the DNC said.

"Of course, according to DNC rules Iowa, SC, and NH should also lose there delegates, but that hasn't happened yet, eh???"

You're kidding, right? People that don't know how politics work make me want to spit nails. Those states are supposed to go first. Also, you forgot Nevada.

Bob B, in a word WRONG!

Read this link:
http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/

The DNC inserted two more states before Super Tuesday, ignoring the complaints of Florida and other state parties.

Re-vote? The Dems are a bunch of sore losers, and the Democratic party thought the Repubs would kill each other in the primaries when the exact opposite is happening. Hey, why don't we re-do the Super Bowl and see if the Patriots can go undefeated! Idiots.

Within the framework of Congress, McCain is honorable, very experienced and bipartisan. Also, when it comes to the 3am call, I believe he would be by far the most cool-headed. This fellow was a jet bomber pilot, so you would not expect him to panic or over-compensate.

He would make a much better President than Bush. He might actually do very well on an absolute scale.

The Democratic Party is just making a mess in its own backyard. Do you really want 4 years of these people?

Dear Millions of Democratic Voters:

You have wasted your time and money. We might as well take all that enthusiasm, all the campaigning, all the rallies, confetti, and cheers, AND FLUSH THEM ALL DOWN THE TOILET.

We should cancel the rest of the primaries.

What's the use? The Democratic nomination is going to be stolen by the Clintons via secret, dirty, back room deal. Screw all your votes, she says. The will of the majority in the Dem party is nothing compared to the Clinton Family Entitlement endowed by God himself.

The Clintons are already IN. All the rest of this is just PR.

See you in November.

Sincerely,
Fellow Disenfranchised Voter

HOW CAN THEY INCLUDE DELEGATES FROM A STATE WHERE OBAMA WAS NOT EVEN ON THE BALLOT????

WHY SHOULD CLINTON GET THEM. SHE IS BEHIND AND NOW THE PARTY WANTS TO GIVE HER DELEGATES WHERE NO DELEGATES WERE TO BE COUNTED

THE PARTY OF THE LITTLE GUY???

THE CREDENTIAL COMMITTEE??? WILL DECIDE???

GIVE ME A BREAK???

In the case of Florida, as the Republicans forced the Democrats to move their primary, thus resulting in the "disqualification" of the state's delegates, the Republicans should pay for the second primary. Unfortunately, that will NEVER happen.

In the case of Michigan (where I happen to live and voted "uncommitted" as my candidate was not listed on the ballot), the Democrats in the legislature (you know, the ones who made the decision to move the primary and thus disqualified our delegates) should all be recalled. Talk about disenfranchisement of a voting bloc. How many people in Michigan voted for Hillbill (can anyone tell them apart anymore?) because their choice was not on the ballot, per the "gentleman's agreement" between the candidates? Hillbill was on the ballot because, I guess a "gentleman's agreement" wouldn't apply to her.

I don't have an issue with a woman being President any more than I have an issue with a black man being President; what I object to are the women who are voting for Hillbill simply BECAUSE she's a woman. I realize the historical significance and I can appreciate that, however, if it were the RIGHT woman, I would take less of an issue. Ann Richards (Governor, TX) comes to mind as a potentially RIGHT woman.

Is anyone even remotely disturbed that her message has evolved every time she's been behind in polling, until she gets the right mix of what her present audience wants to hear. She's claimed NAFTA as a good thing, until it didn't serve her to say that in Ohio, then she sang a different tune and threw the kitchen sink at Obama to take the focus off herself.

Obama, on the other hand, can't seem to be as convincing unscripted as he is scripted. I think I'll stay home in November!

Looks like the fix is in - the Clintons are going to pull a Bush and steal the nomination by changing the rules.

If we all can vote in the general on one day, why can't we all vote in primaries on one day?

Think much money will be saved voting on one day for primaries too? All that saved money can go to pay down the debt if "the rich" would write that additional check to the IRS.

To the democratic party, DNC stands for Does Not Count if you are a Florida voter. Didn't we go through with this in 2000 with Al Gore's law suit? Hey dude, don't taze my vote. Let Florida's voice be heard.

Great, I voted for Mitt, my wife didn't go vote because the Dems would not count her vote, and now they want to count the ones that did vote.

No way. We held our election, you said it wouldn't count... screw you.

Of course, the Hill wants them to count because she was in and out of the state on "fund raising" trips, yeah right, and my brother reads Playboy for the articles.

Delsa,
life is all about choices. Obama chose to have his name removed from the ballot in Michigan.
In effect, telling Michigan that he did not want their vote.

Who goofed!

The only fair way to include Florida and Michigan is to start the election all over again starting with Iowa and all of the candidates included in the process. Which, of course, is not going to happen.

Who knows "Edwards, Dodd, Biden, or others" could have won Florida and/or Michigan and the whole outcome would be different.

You can't change the rules and undo history in the middle of the game. It never will be fair

How is this Hillary's "Fault" or Obama's "fault" ?????? Neither candidate made the decision for the Florida / Michigan primary dates. Dumbass leaders did. I want to know WHO made the decisions about those early primary dates.

The ONLY thing Hillary / Obama decided was whether or not to put their names on the ballots, even though they knew it would not count. Hillary was smarter I think. She covered her butt just in case something changed down the line and also to show how much support she had in these states, even without technically campaigning there. (I believe they both did a little campaigning on the side - in the big picture, I do not really care about that anyway).

Always cover your butt. I tell my students this all the time when their baggie pants are falling down.

"Somebody tell me where else in life you can establish rules and then rewrite them later."
---

Apparently mortgages. ;)

Let's have a do-over for the 2006 elections. Pelosi and Reid have been a disaster.

If Old Howard wants to foot the bill, then he can have recount after recount. Gore tried 4 and still lost each one.

We Floridians are poor at the moment and cannot afford another election, or doesn't Howard read the national news?

Greg,
I guess your Democratic wife was the only Democrat to not vote in Florida's primary. It was a record turn out for Democrats in January.

I voted for Obama, and I hope my vote counts, but here too the delegates are split by percentage, and it was 55% to 45% Clinton. It really won't change the numbers.

The super delegates pick our nominee this year, not the "We the People."

2 Predictions

1) Hillary loses and takes the Dem Party down with her. (Remember, the true test of character is when you are down).

2) Bill divorces Hillary cause Hillary is going to be one mad wet hen. Every time she looks at Slick Willy, she'll think two things - a) he screws around on me and then b) he screwed me in South Carolina. Now, she won't leave him but she'll be unbearable to live with..er...should i say...to appear with in public together.

2 Predictions

1) Hillary loses and takes the Dem Party down with her. (Remember, the true test of character is when you are down).

2) Bill divorces Hillary cause Hillary is going to be one mad wet hen. Every time she looks at Slick Willy, she'll think two things - a) he screws around on me and then b) he screwed me in South Carolina. Now, she won't leave him but she'll be unbearable to live with..er...should i say...to appear with in public together.

Rule 11.A specifically set the date for the primaries & caucuses for those three states as ,"no earlier than 22 days before the first Tuesday in February" (Iowa), "no earlier than 14 days before the first Tuesday in February" (New Hampshire), and "no earlier than 7 days before the first Tuesday in February" (South Carolina).

Iowa held their caucuses on January 3rd. That's more than 22 days before the first Tuesday in February. New Hampshire held their primary on January 8th. That's more than 17 days before the first Tuesday in February. And South Carolina held their primary on January 26th. That's more than 7 days before the first Tuesday in February.

The fact is that, "the rules of the game" were changed to continue to give Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina preferential treatment in the Democratic Party's presidential nomination process. Florida, Iowa, Michigan, New Hampshire, and South Carolina, all violated Rule 11.A., but only Florida and Michigan were punished for it.

If you're going to enforce the rules, then the rules need to be applied equally and fairly.

PUNISH SC ALSO. NO SEATED DELEGATES.

As a Republican, I will be glad to see Michigan and Florida fall solidly into the McCain camp after the DNC and the rules committee confirm that they will indeed not get a voice in selecting the Dem nominee because the DNC had its head so far up NH and Iowas asses.

News for the DNC....The rest of the country has as much right to go first as NH or Iowa does. You screw with your voters, they will damn sure screw with you.

How un-democratic is it to tell a state when they can hold their elections because of the perceived affect their results will have on the electorate? And now Howard Dean is going to tell two states that they have to foot the bill for another election because of some political party rules? What a waste of taxpayer dollars and as usual thanks to the dems!!

Obama was on the ballot in Florida - votes should stand as cast. Michigan - no one told Obama to withdraw his name. He's a big boy and made that decision.

Nothing more childish than knowingly breaking the rules, then crying and whining about the consequences you knew you'd have to face. Where was the concern for the voters of Florida and Michigan back when the state parties decided to thumb their noses at the DNC? Suck it up, kids.

This is insane to mind blowing , even if the Clintons win all the remaining states including philly 60/40 , she still will be way behind in delegates,Howard dean must know this math and say to Hillary " you cant catch him, suspend your campaign and lets rally behind him".

She lost 12 in a row, if it was little league baseball they would have call in the mercy rule. As a independent this is funny, The DNC will allow the the party to snatch defeat from the jaws ..well you know the rest.

For those who keep stating that it is somehow the Republicans fault that Florida Democratic votes won't count, you need to wake up!

It was the DNC who chose the punishment of taking away ALL the delegates. The RNC also punished Forida, but chose to take away 1/2 of the delegates thus allowing the state to still seat some.

If you don't like what happened you have no one to blame but the DNC. They and only they had the choice to punish or not and to what extent.

To TH from Chicago-

I also live in Chicago -- your version of the Obama-Rezko relationship is inaccurate and misleading. As the local press has repeatedly reported, Rezko and Obama were friends for 17 years, not merely "acquaintances" as you claim. In addition, Rezko was a member of Obama's campaign finance committee when Obama ran for the US Senate.

Your claim that "in a year of digging nobody has found that Obama did any favors for Rezko" is also incorrect. Again, as the local press has repeatedly reported, Obama provided an internship to the son of a contributor at the request of Rezko. This contributor was named as an unindicted co-conspirator in the federal corruption case against Rezko.

Finally, Obama bought the land from Rezko after Obama knew that Rezko was already under investigation for corruption. So, at best, that "mistake" shows Obama has very poor judgment.

I don't know about the Fl primary but in Mi the dems were told in a BIG media release that if they didn't want to vote for Hillary they should vote undecided. That way when the votes were counted later on as they knew they'd be it would be fair because there was a choice. Hillary or not. So, give Obama the not votes and let it be all over.

A Democratic do-over should not have to be paid for by the taxpayers of Florida. Each party should only get one primary paid by the taxpayers. It sounds like the Democratic leader Dean desires to write off the voters of Florida and Michigan in the general election except for contributions. Great leader!

This is unbelievable - the Clinton machine at its finest. If you can't beat him - steal it. Who in their right mind doesn't understand what is in play here? Anything and everything, nothing is out of bounds for Hillary Clinton to steal the nomination. And the worse part, Howard Dean is going along with this tomfoolery.

Amen, Realist!

Howard Dean is Correct !!

Throw out the Democratic 'leadership' in Florida & Michigan -- they are a disgrace to the Voters & the Democratic party.

...And here comes what we all anticipated. The Clinton machine using the connections and influence that they appointed to help them try to steal the election. LOL!

Finally the Democrats are getting a taste of the "slickness" that Republicans have complained about for years.

This is change?

It hasn't even begun to get dirty yet either. Now that Hillary and Bill have had their dirty politics strategy validated by Ohio and Texas, the gloves are coming off to stay.

Stewart, the DNC told the candidates to not participate in Michigan and Florida. Edwards and Obama obeyed and withdrew their names from the ballots, as requested. Clinton, since she doesn't care about little things like RULES, stayed on. In Florida, all names were on the ballot by law but neither were supposed to campaign there. Yet Clinton had several nationwide commercials that included Florida. The evidence shows that states where Obama has time to campaign in, the gap is narrowed very tightly (see: Texas).

How can you be so unfair and so unwilling to be objective? Just because you want Clinton to win? You want to win at all costs, don't you? Even if it's cheating, which it would be... it's people like you which the founding fathers fought so hard to get rid of. You're standing in the way of democracy.

Florida & Michigan broke the rules. The votes do not count. Live with it.

I think it is all a big joke. America preaches to the world about free and fair elections and virtues of a democratic country.

However, at the first sign of trouble the rules change. You cannot penalize someone and then say, Oh we did not mean it you are not penalized anymore. Would that work with your kid? No.

If Obama reaches, the convention with the most pledged delegates and the Clinton gets the Super delegates to push her over for the nomination. That would not be a free and fair election.

Why didn’t the super delegates in the begining select the nomination? Why waste all the time and money pretending that the people are picking the nominee.

If the Democrats take the choice away from the people they are no better than Pakistan or Zimbabwe or Russia.

Here's a novel idea. Just simply take the delegates and apportion them 50/50. That way, NEITHER candidate benefits unfairly and the delegates get seated. No fuss, no more $$ spent, no controversy!

How can you not love a circular firing squad? The only reason Hillary is anywhere near still in this race is the hundreds of thousands of Ohioans and Texans from the GOP who crossed over and voted for her to keep her in going so she can finish her work in destroying the Democratic chances in November. Even if she succeeded in winning over Obama, she'd go down in flames in the fall after Obama's supporters decide they cannot forgive her and help her out against McCain. In the meantime, her dark secrets will be exposed as never before - it will be high entertainment for the next eight months, and the gaul of it is that GOP voters are making her and Obama dance like puppets - gee this is fun!!

How can you not love a circular firing squad? The only reason Hillary is anywhere near still in this race is the hundreds of thousands of Ohioans and Texans from the GOP who crossed over and voted for her to keep her in going so she can finish her work in destroying the Democratic chances in November. Even if she succeeded in winning over Obama, she'd go down in flames in the fall after Obama's supporters decide they cannot forgive her and help her out against McCain. In the meantime, her dark secrets will be exposed as never before - it will be high entertainment for the next eight months, and the gaul of it is that GOP voters are making her and Obama dance like puppets - gee this is fun!!

Rosalinda,

As a Florida Democrat, I am tired of twelve people in NH setting the "tone" of who is elected as my nominee. For goodness sake, Miami has more citizens than the entire state of NH.

Vote all on one day for primaries like we do for the general election.

This is lost, I don't want to pay for another election, and there is not fair solution. Fix it for 2012, we all vote on the same day.

What's halarious about this of course is that it was the Florida Republicans who voted to move the primary up from Super Tuesday. The Republicans were penalized by taking only half the delegates and the Democrats, who are basically idiots frankly, took away all the delegates. Don't you just love that little dance the Dems do when they shoot themselves in the foot? Its so cute...

What's halarious about this of course is that it was the Florida Republicans who voted to move the primary up from Super Tuesday. The Republicans were penalized by taking only half the delegates and the Democrats, who are basically idiots frankly, took away all the delegates. Don't you just love that little dance the Dems do when they shoot themselves in the foot? Its so cute...

cj- Did obama campaign in florida? If not, then why should he be punished for assuming that the DNC would do what it said it would regarding these delegates? Do competitors have a right to rely on the rules that are agreed-to before they step into the ring?

Regarding Kucinich being on the democratic ballot in michigan- I guess I should have been more specific. Instead of "candidate", I should have said "serious candidate". In terms of liklihood of being elected, I put Kucinich in the same class as Bozo the Clown and SpongeBob SquarePants ( who I heard also left their names on the michigan ballot. )

Regarding your statement that HRC was just being realistic, I guess you are right about that. I never said she was stupid- just unethical and dishonest. I admit- It WAS unrealistic of the other serious candidates to think that the DNC would show some spine and place principle over expediency. When have democrats EVER done that?

Hillary correctly guessed that the national party pooh-bahs would cave on the Michigan and Florida delegates and she knew that if they were in trouble late in the race, that they would have the option of pulling the old "do-over" maneuver. Doesnt your thesis that the clintons knew all along that these delegates would come into play, agree completely with my own claim that this was all pre-meditated? I think we actually agree on this. The Clintons are playing hardball, and the Obama people are playing T-ball. Welcome to the big leauges Obama!

But still- the fact that HRC was right about the fact that she may get away with doing something that's unfair doesnt make it any less wrong. Let's not confuse the ability to do something with the rightness of doing it.

What's halarious about this of course is that it was the Florida Republicans who voted to move the primary up from Super Tuesday. The Republicans were penalized by taking only half the delegates and the Democrats, who are basically idiots frankly, took away all the delegates. Don't you just love that little dance the Dems do when they shoot themselves in the foot? Its so cute...

THIS IS EASY TO SOLVE WITHOUT FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN IN PLAY ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS THE LOWER THE TOTAL DELEGATES NEEDED TO NOMINATE BY A PROPORTIONAL AMOUNT. THEREFORE YOU WON'T NEED 2025 DELEGATES, YOU WOULD NEED LESS.

DNC, PLEASE COMBINE HILLARY AND OBAMA FOR A DREAM TICKET. It will be the best thing that ever happened to the GOP! Why?

We already have seen that half of DNC voters hate Hillary so bad, they will vote for an unknown and any "change". Of course, none of the GOP voters can stand her. That's a big combined block AGAINST Hillary.

Now, Obama might have a chance, alone, to take on the GOP.....and Hillary leftovers will probably split between GOP and Obama to make it a wash.

BUT IF HILLARY, WHO IS DETERMINED TO GET BACK IN THE WHITE HOUSE, GETS ON OBAMA'S TICKET...she will drag him down. Many of Obama's voters will defect if she ever gets back in their faces and of course nothing would energize the GOP more than for ALL of us to turn out just to finally be able to say "YOU CLINTONS WILL NEVER EVER AGAIN TRASH OUR WHITE HOUSE!"

The idea is to arrange things so that states with large numbers of Jewish officials and voters will get to pick the winner. That way whoever is nominated can be made to agree to keep sending billions of dollars to Israel every year even after we go into a recession, and keep sending American soldiers to die for Israel in the Middle East, even after Bush leaves office. Florida and Pennsylvania have lots of Jewish voters and lots of Jewish officials.

Ron J.,

The vote to move the primary was opposed by only two Republicans, all the Democrats in the Florida Legislature voted for moving the dates.

Nice try, but the DNC refused to hear Florida's objection to inserting two more states before Super Tuesday. This is why the legislature decide to move our dates back.

The DNC changes decades old rules against the will of Florida state party.

American peoples, do not vote for the infidel hillary. allah wishes you to vote for the good muslim Barrack Obama.

praise be to allah (Obama 2008)

Greg,
I guess your Democratic wife was the only Democrat to not vote in Florida's primary. It was a record turn out for Democrats in January.

I voted for Obama, and I hope my vote counts, but here too the delegates are split by percentage, and it was 55% to 45% Clinton. It really won't change the numbers.

The super delegates pick our nominee this year, not the "We the People."
___

The reason for record Florida turnout was not Obama and Clinton. It was Amendment 1 (Florida Property Tax Issue). Republicans also voted.

Now that the Clintons have won the nomination, they just need the old folks in Florida to verify the bar tab one more time.

give me another opportunity, i want to cross over.

cj- You'r a democrat, and I'm a republican, but I agree with you that 12 idiots in New Hampshire and few I.O.W.A ( Idiots Out Wandering Around ) bumpkins should not be dictating the course of the nominating process to the whole rest of the country. The Republican nominee was actually chosen before the state with the most republicans ( Texas ) even had a chance to vote! It's preposterous. We should have a national primary. Down with Ethanol and Maple Syrup!( Iowa and New hampshire)


Florida better not re-vote with my tax money. That's not right. The DNC either needs to count the votes or not. Wasting our tax dollars to do another vote is ridiculous.

Well it appears that Hillary is feeling the heat. She cant win and they will do ANYTHING to get back into power. As a Republican, this to me is the same thing as dangling chads in Palm Beach County. You know how you get dangling chads? You stuff the ballot machines until they wont hold anymore and then try to punch through. You cant, first one goes, second and 3rd might go or dangle, but the last one dimples. Now that was a Gore group, this is a Hillary group.

To me as with CJ this is bullshit. Most Dems and nearly all Republicans want the process to be fair and none of this disenfranchisement crap. In the Omnibus Election Reform Act EVERYONE gets to vote. Either in the actual election or via provisional vote. You still have to show you live in the district and the election commissions have to determine if you were legal afterwards, but you still get to vote. Sorry Michael Moore.

Now we got Florida and Michigan. Hillary cant win without them, or she could lose with them. If she sees or smells a win possibility then she will push and hard to get those delegates seated. For us poor old Republicans we go with simple majority and none of this "superdelegate" chicken puck. If Obama wins the popular vote in the Dem process and Hillary tries a fast one with those delegates then there is going to be Hell to Pay. Why should Dems even go out to vote? Just leave it to the business as usual types-superdelegates. They were instrumental in Palm Beach County in ensuring that Al Gore got 120% of the vote by ballot stuffing.

No, most Dems are like me. Tired of the crud that both parties ship out to us and we just have to say, "I'm sorry sir, can I have another." I think that both Hillary and Obama represent change, all bad. But it starts with the voting process. I can tell you that if the rank and file Dems allow Hillary to get her way then there is no reason to vote. We would end up with Queen Hillary, just like we had King Bill. We know what absolute power corrupting absolutely does.. Just ask Monica L. She said she is voting Republican this time around, the Dems leave a bad taste in her mouth.

Harry,

I did not suggest Obama was the reason for the record Democratic voter turn out. You may be right it was the property tax amendment.

It still remains a fact that even knowing our vote would not count, Democrats still voted in the primary rather than simply leave it blank.

If the Democratic National Committee violates its own rules to hold primaries in the Michigan and Florida that will beneft Hillary I will file a lawsuit to prevent this from taking place in Michigan. I am a Michigan resident. The rules should not be changed to hand the nomination to Hillary.

"Woefully inexpereinced?" Conceding this claim......what's the big deal? Obama's shown leadership and delegation abilities in his presiding over an efficient, well executed campaign. Contrast this with the other two candidates.
Obama's also shown the kind of judgment that we need in an executive with his vote on the Iraq War Resolution (not against all wars, just stupid ones). It is a judgment that has not yet taken a back seat to the cynical Washington political calculus. Don't confuse resistance with naivety.

Thank God for Howard Dean!

Too Funny! I think the Democrats should change the name of their party to The Nitwit Party. I really liked Howard’s use of the word “game” (“…we are not going to change the rules in the middle of the game) rather than the word “process” because that is exactly what the world is witnessing – A Game!

If this is the best y’all can do in the name of democracy, God help the rest of the world as they struggle to understand what’s going on. Who in hell would trust these people, I refer to those running the Nitwit Party, to govern any country let alone the USA. I don’t think they could manage to run Uruguay.

Superduper delegates – right on!

Members of the Republican Party must be rolling in the isles, doubled-over in uncontrollable laughter. Because let’s face it, the rest of the world is in hysterics. It’s just too funny for words to describe the ridiculous rules and behavior of these nitwits! By the way, has Howard Dean had his face plastered on?

Tommy D____
Professor of Smozology

C.L.I.N.T.O.N. - Cheating, Lying Inmates Now Tearing Our Nation.

What I want to know is this; since these two cretins now get secret service protection till the day they thankfully take their long awaited dirt-nap, who gets to decide which agent gets the honor of protecting them when the prison gangs come calling?

Hey, Tommy D, I call foul. Most Democrats did not want Howard "scream" Dean to be our party leader, but the guys in the smoked filled room thought he'd be a good "voice" for the party. ;-)

THIS!... is exactly why you never want to actually play golf with a Dem.

"Oh, silly me, I shanked into the woods again! I'm going to go ahead and take my first do-over now..."

C.L.I.N.T.O.N. - Cheating, Lying Inmates Now Tearing Our Nation.

What I want to know is this; since these two cretins now get secret service protection till the day they thankfully take their long awaited dirt-nap, who gets to decide which agent gets the honor of protecting them when the prison gangs come calling?

Obama has won the the victory for Texas' pledged delegates, in yesterday's Prima-Caucus.

Congratulations Barack, on your victory in Texas!

There is no dispute that Hillary won the raw vote. And the raw vote is meaningful.

But pledged delegate wins are also meaningful. Remember, now matter how poorly you do--you win some delegates. The only way to win ALOT of delegates is to really move the needle over hard.

And that is what Clinton failed to do, in TX.

In a way, the TX result mirrors (nearly) the MO result. Obama won the raw vote by a small margin, and they split the delegates--but, moreoever, he won the cities and she took the countryside.

In another 48 hours, after the Clinton campaign has run run out of confetti, reality will start to creep back in here. Yes, she did quite well in OH. But, she did not get the job done in Texas. In Texas, Senator Clinton got a headline. She needed more than that.

The democrats are going to push through legislation in Flordia and Michigan declaring that January 2008 actually came after March 2008 due to global warming. Additionally, due to polar ice cap melting the candidate with the most carbon credits actually wins the nomination.

There is no basis for a lawsuit on DEM do-overs, because these are NOT elections. These are Political Party primaries. Repeat: no one is being voted into elected office here. These are NOT elections. So go ahead a sue. You have no standing. You'll have no grievance.

THE BEST PART OF THIS CLINTON FIX IS THAT THOSE TENS OF MILLIONS OF BLACKS WHO VOTED EVERY ELECTION FOR DEMOCRATS WILL NOW SEE WHAT THEIR SELF IMPOSED POLITICAL SERVITUDE HAS BOUGHT FOR THEM.

I'm thinking of a word....it begins with a "c"...then a "u"....

OK, it's:

cluster_ _ _ _

Hillary left her name on ballot in Michigan and campaigned in Florida even though she knew they wouldn't count?
Posted by Shawn H | March 5, 2008 8:21 PM

______________________
Hillary did not campaign in Florida or Michigan, but Obama DID run television campaign ads in Florida.

YOu've got to be kidding. Two states, millions of voters loose their right to choose, and Mr. Dean says, "They broke the rules, they "can" vote again, but doesn't make the DNC responsible for the $$$$ for voters to vote again. Why doesn't he just announce now that, that's not going to happen. And, by the way, Hillary has just chosen him as her running mate. (Perfect choice, gives Bill a real job,because we all know how easily Mr. Dean melts under pressure.

leave it to the democrats to expose their incompetence.
how do they find people this stupid?
control of the senate and house and they accomplish what? a bunch of investigations!!

THE RULES HAVE BEEN CHANGED BEFORE AND OUGHT TO BE CHANGED AGAIN. THE FL LEGISLATURE CHANGED THE VOTE-DATE _NOT_ THE FL DEMOCRATIC PARTY! THE NAME OF THIS BILL IS HB537. THE DNC DID _NOTHING_ TO PREVENT THE PASSAGE OF THIS LEGISLATION BY THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY. THIS ISN'T ABOUT HILLARY AND THAT OTHER GUY, IT'S ABOUT THE NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY _FAILING_ TO EXECUTE ITS CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS TO THE FLORIDA STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THEN PUNISHING THAT STATE PARTY FOR ITS OWN FAILURE. THE DNC RULES STATE THAT "IN THE EVENT OF SUCH CONFLICT WITH STATE LAWS, STATE PARTIES SHALL BE REQUIRED TO TAKE PROVABLE POSITIVE STEPS TO BRING SUCH LAWS INTO CONFORMITY." THE FL DEMOCRATIC PARTY CAN PROVE THAT IT HAD TAKEN THESE STEPS TO BRING ITS LAWS INTO CONFORMITY. CHAIRWOMAN THURMAN UNSUCCESSFULLY LOBBIED VIGOROUSLY TO PREVENT ITS PASSAGE.

Gregor,

Its a close election, we all have to admit that much. There is no clear winner, but there is a clear loser -- all Americans.

Just like in '68 convention (I am old, and watched on all three of the tv networks available at the time.) this is gonna get ugly

READ THIS... I understand that (as of today) Florida is considering that since the DNC will not allow The Great State of Florida to delegate at the DNC Convention. The State of Florida will in turn, NOT allow the Democratic Presidential Candidates on the November Florida Presidential election ballot. Will Michigan also consider this option?

Why when John Edwards had 6 complete years of US Senate experience and was an extremely inspirational speaker it was said he did not have enough experience to be President, but Obama who declared his candidacy after just two years in the US Senate (just this past January he had is 3rd year, but he had hardly been at a vote)does he supposedly have enough experience??

Videoowl,

Florida will not be able to prevent the Democratic party nominee from being on the ballot. PERIOD.

Our state Supreme Court will rightly find any attempt to do so unconstitutionally, both Florida's Constitution and the US Constitution.

I surmise that the primary reason Hillbill wants back into the White House is so that she can slowly sneak out the items she "mistakenly" stole (and had to return) when they vacated the White House in 2000.

Can I get an amen?

At least no one can blame George Bush for this mess.

The level of stupidity on some of these blogs never ceases to amaze me.

In particular, A.J. Catolin, I would ask you, HOW in the world can the Republicans in the Florida legislature disenfranchise Democrats in a *PRIMARY* election?! Um...this is your party, choosing candidates for...your party. Dates mean nothing!

Try to follow me here...it was your OWN party that made the ruling on not seating the delegates in Florida and Michigan. Everyone in the Democratic party knew full well that the national party ruled the delegates would not be seated – and everyone agreed to the rules.

But The Angry Pantsuit went ahead and campaigned, etc. Why? Because she knew this was her ace in the hole. Remember, rules, laws and decency mean *nothing* to Hill and Bill. Anyone with half a brain could see this coming months ago. If Hill was winning, do you think she would be worried about this? Not for a minute.

You are a fool for supporting this evil, corrupt, morally bankrupt witch. But you are an even bigger fool for trying to blame the Republicans for an issue that was created by your own Democratic party.

To “LISSA-ST.LOUIS,MO:” I am truly sorry for your loss. But your statement that “all the Republicans care about is there (sic) money” is absurd. What we care about is keeping what we earn from the greedy hands of those who refuse to work, and the Ruling Class Socialists like Obama and Hillary who fight to see who can take the most from the productive, and redistribute it to the slugs! I don’t want your Social Security, your Medicare and your “free” healthcare. Let me keep what is mine and I will provide for myself.

In 2004 the Democrats screamed about disenfranchising voters by not letting them vote (there were none) and now the DNC wants to disenfranchise two whole states worth of voters. I suppose this is what Howard Dean calls justice.

If this were a Republican issue, the media would be having a field day, old Howard could be heard screaming all the way to Texas and Dingy Harry would be calling for a special investigator.

Think I'll just mosey on down to the bull pens and listen to cattle that make more sense.

The tragegy is that Bill and his wife have trashed the Democratic Party. The positive is that they have shown their true colors and reasonable people do not like what they see. Obama or McCain is the way to go. The Democratic Party should disband.

The tragegy is that Bill and his wife have trashed the Democratic Party. The positive is that they have shown their true colors and reasonable people do not like what they see. Obama or McCain is the way to go. The Democratic Party should disband.

Optimist,

You had better read all the posts here, someone already has blamed President Bush.

The tragegy is that Bill and his wife have trashed the Democratic Party. The positive is that they have shown their true colors and reasonable people do not like what they see. Obama or McCain is the way to go. The Democratic Party should disband.

from howard dean's full statement :
"The rules, which were agreed to by the full DNC including representatives from Florida and Michigan over 18 months ago,"

- why then are hilary and bill saying " it's the republican's fault " ???

if the republicans rigged this to ambush the DNC why did hilary and bill and dean and edwards and obama AGREE to the rules ??
oh , wait- they are lying.
typical dem move-when you loose- change the rules.

How about this: Split the combined Florida and Michigan delegates 50/50, half to Hillary, half to Obama, allowing each remaining candidate to have a better shot at reaching the needed delegate total, yet acknowledging that neither state held a meaningful primary. Not fair to Edwards or other candidates no longer in the race, to say nothing of the voters, but not a bad solution under the circumstances. And an inexpensive one, too.

Hillary is objective-oriented and nothing will prevent her from winning. Hillary is prepared to modify the rules in mid-game if it is to her advantage. In the end, after Florida and Michigan are thrown back into the race, and after she has used back-room deals with superdelegates to thwart the will of the Democrat electorate, so what? It's not like the blacks are gonna turn around and vote for McCain, are they? I think Hillary has been patient enough already having to endure this uppity black. Hillary is inevitable and he should have known that up front. Obama only damages the party by continuing at this point. He will NEVER be 'da man.

Jor-L5150,

Nice try Jor, but the reason why Florida moved its primary was because the DNC changed the rules and would not listen to our complaints.

Read the post.

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/

No matter what they do, the delegate selection process is badly broken and in need of repair.

People in Florida and Michigan are worried about their voices not being heard? What about people in states and territories who vote late? The voters in Pennsylvania NEVER get their voices heard. By April, when Pennsylvania votes, the contest is over. Yet there is no objective reason why voters in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, etc. have more say in who the nominees are than Pennsylvania.

I don't know why more people aren't calling for primary and caucus reform. Personally, I'm in favor of having the elections in order, from small states to large states.

Magnificent,

I want primaries/caucuses to all be on the same day. We can do vote on one day for the general election, why not the primaries/caucuses too?

For all you Obamanites that keep saying Hillary campaigned in Florida nad Michigan - SHE DID NOT. Obama DID. He ran campiagn television advertisements in Florida.

When it comes to Michigan:

1) We have an OPEN primary.

2) Barak Obama, John Edwards and most of the frontrunners EXCEPT Hillary, filed an affidavit and/or official letter with the Secretary of State to REMOVE their names from the primary ballot.

2) There is NO way to write-in on the primary ballot. Any write-ins will immediately disqualify the ballot!

3) Obama supporters on the Detroit council as well as John Conyers were urging voters to vote UNCOMMITTED, signifying their votes for Obama, and that they WILL be represented in Michigan's delegate count.

This is a huge, ugly mess that's about to unfold but given the Clintons are involved it's no surprise. She'll win or take the party down with her, invoking the USSC if she has to. I just wonder if this will lead to a Constitutional crisis.

It's Just like a Nascar Sprint cup race. While 2nd and third place battles it out side by side, First place builds a bigger lead because of it! Gotta love em!

The right to vote is one of my most cherished rights. The DNC is pissing on that whole principle of democracy, so they can go whine about their rules and "super delegates" out of the white house when people like me decide not to vote for their un-democratically selected candidate.


1st of all, there is NO such thing as a right to vote in a presidential election. The process wasn't set up that way. Read the constitution......it's not there.

2nd, this is not a democracy, it's a representative republic.


When is Obama going to play the pardon card?
Specifically, Tony/Hugh Rodham, Marc Rich, etc...

Danielle -

I can confirm that.
I know people who live in Miami, Naples, Pensacola, Jacksonville, Orlando and places in between.

Obama rans ads.
Hillary had a private party in Miami.
That is about all I have heard, nothing more.

NO DEMOCRAT is happy with the decision for our votes to not count.

I agree that primaries should be held on ONE day, just like the final vote. No caucuses. Straight up delegates awarded by percentages that REPRESENT ACTUAL POPULATIONS, NOT SUPERDELEGATES.

I have not heard any solution that I think is fair to the Florida and Michigan voters. Everyone keeps complaining about being fair / not fair to Hillary or Obama, that Dean is an idiot (yep, he is), and other angles, but the truth is, the voters are not being heard and that violates the U.S. constitution.

Oh wait....Bush already set that precedent.
It always starts at the top, doesn't it?

Richard wrote : Of course, according to DNC rules Iowa, SC, and NH should also lose there delegates, but that hasn't happened yet, eh??? Also, FL and Mich were only supposed to penalized by half The dems are a joke - they can't even follow their own election rules - let alone the nation's!!! Posted March 5, 2008 7:32 PM

Iowa, SC and NH were sanctioned elections. They were always scheduled to go before Super Tuesday.

FYI, the Republican governor and his party moved up Florida, it was not the Democrats.

FYI, the RNC and DNC have different rules. RNC chose to the penalize the states by halving their delegates; the DNC chose a penalty of 100%. The states were warned of the penalties and chose to move up their primaries anyway.

the more I read comments from Obama supporters it scares me how much they sound like Republicans. They bring up scandals they they know were many times manufactured by the Republicans while Bill Clinton was in office - and despite all the investigations he was found to have not done anything illegal or immoral except for his affair with Monica - that was all they could get to stick to him.

What you supposed Democrats - that support Obama, have no reservation in using Republican talking points to try to get your candidate to win. Your candidate that I might jsut remind you is not totally vetted at this point. I guess you all forget those years of propserity, balanced budgets and pay down on the National Debt, low gas prices, and low low unemployment that we had in the Clinton Presidency years despite everything they threw at him.

And you want us to believe that Hillary and her supporters are dividing the Democrat party - think again - you even want to disenfranchise voters in Florida and Michigan because there is a chance they might go for Hillary and put her ahead. If you are worried about ethics, morals, and dirty sink politics - I think you all better take a look at yourselves.

CJ: the reason we don't have all the primaries and caucuses on the same day is related to the stated reason why Iowa and New Hampshire go first. If they were all on the same day, the candidates would campaign in the largest states (Texas, California, etc.) and ignore the small states.

Of course, I don't think that's a valid reason, and I'd prefer your suggestion to have all the primaries and caucuses on the same day to the broken system we have now.

this is EXCELLENT NEWS!!! for HILLARY!!!!

vote for stali cuz this system is as corupt voting ends 9pm in tx n y times had results 8:05 what a joke

I don't really have an agenda here; I don't think there is really much difference between Clinton and Obama and I will vote for neither of them (nor will I vote for McCain), but I do think it's a bit fallacious to think that Clinton had much to do with the prosperity of the nineties. It's true that he balanced the budget, but in general with regard to the economy, he just happened to be in the right place at the right time, but with the Cold War coming to an end, and decades of military investment in IT and engineering beginning to bear fruit in the commercial sector. And though the gas prices of the Clinton years seem dreamy now, they at least doubled over the course of his two terms in office. In any case, the oil scarcity issue just hadn't caught up with him yet. Do you think we wouldn't be paying $3-4/gallon in gas if Gore were elected? I doubt it.

I think (Bill) Clinton's image has in some ways been helped by the fact that Bush Jr. has been such a horrendously (criminally?) bad president. In comparison Clinton looks like bloody Roosevelt or something. But we forget that Clinton did a lot of (I think) scummy things when he was president. Just tally it up - signing NAFTA, ramping up the drug war, gutting welfare, launching cruise missiles at harmless Sudanese pharmaceutical factories, the questionable Bosnia war, the pointless sanctions ("We think starving kids are worth it" Albright) and occasional random bombings of Iraq, etc. I don't even count the fact that he cheated on his wife with a rather unattractive intern. Who cares?

Re several comments including one from the Master of Spin, Bill Clinton that a Republican Florida governor and a Republican Florida Legislature is responsible for the early Florida Primary, the Bill that authorized the early primary was passed with bipartisan support (118-0 in the House and 37-2 in the Senate.)

It was the DMC that said these votes would not count. See the report below from wikipedia.org for you doubters. So blame your DMC if you don't like the results. If you want to have a do-over, that's fine with me. For you fems out there, giving the nomination to Hillary will take the party back further than she did in '94 with her attempt to ram a crapola health plan through the Democratic Congress.

So, Bill Clinton is full of horse shit in his spin and anyone else spining the same tale is also.

While the Clinton's did not invent the BIG LIE, sometimes it's hard to believe they didn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_(United_States)_presidential_primaries,_2008Florida primary
For more details on this topic, see Florida Democratic primary, 2008.
The Florida legislature voted via House Bill 537 to move forward the date of their state's primary to January 29th, causing a chain reaction which moved many other states' primaries and caucuses to much earlier dates. The vote passed with bipartisan support 118 to 0 in the House, 37 to 2 in the Senate. In response, the Democratic National Committee has ruled that Florida's delegates will not be seated, or, if seated, will not be able to vote, at the National Convention. Furthermore, the DNC has also stated that it will forbid any candidate from receiving Florida delegates should they campaign in the Florida primary.[27] The DNC Rules Committee met on August 25, 2007 and ruled that Florida would have 30 days to move its primary date at least 7 days later than the current date of January 29, or else lose all of its delegates in the Democratic primary. Florida officials said they may challenge the ruling on legal grounds and protest the 2008 convention; additionally, the actual implementation of such a decision might prove to be difficult.[28]

Hey Jac...

You're full of crap and you can't prove anything about Obama running ANY ads before the Florida Primary.

It is true that a couple of Obama ads ran on CNN and maybe one or two of the other cable news networks, but these were NATIONAL ad Jackie. Do you know the difference or are you another one of the flaming fems for Hillary?

On the other hand, if you're a stupid fem, there's no reasoning with you. Never mind.

By the way Jac, I'm not afraid to use my real name.

1. You could not write in other candidates in Michigan. The best you could do was write in "Undetermined" instead of checking in Clinton or Kucinich. Considering only 55% of the people checked Clinton, and about 40% of them were undetermined, at most Michigan's 55% should go for Clinton. The 40% undetermined should be split between Clinton and Obama.

2. The DNC offered to help pay FL and MI the costs of primaries if they would agree to follow the party rules. The rules were: Geographically diverse states should go first, and Iowa and NH have to go first per their state constitutions. Therefore, we will use SC and NV to help represent all the regions of the US -- west, south, midwest, northeast. FL and MI's legislatures ignored this and opted to go early. These elections were NOT in any way, shape, or form "free and fair" per the requires of international law, considering the "opposition" candidate Obama wasn't even listed on the ballot in MI! Voices should count, but only if the election isn't rigged. If this were any other country besides the US, it would be a huge scandal for a rigged election.

3. Clinton won FL by name recognition alone. The only campaigning Obama did there was to purchase a national television ad that might also be broadcast to FL homes on the national networks. Clinton on the other hand made an actual campaign stop down there to "visit friends."

4. FL and MI need to make sure that none of their state legislators that did this to them are re-elected.

Clinton's camp will not agree to a re-do because even if she wins these states convincingly, she'll only pick up about 50 delegates on Obama. Obama will probably maintain his 100 or so lead on the remaining states left so these two states does not allow her to catch him. Meanwhile, Obama will probably meet the magic number.

What is to become of delegates, if any, for those who dropped out - John Edwards, etc. ?

What is to become of delegates, if any, for those who dropped out - John Edwards, etc. ?

Do those of you who go on about "breaking the rules" realize that a general election follows the primary? Florida is a swing state and one which if it goes dem means we have a good chance of winning the white house, and if it goes republican we don't? You are so lost in your BO-love that you are missing the point -- if florida dems are pissed off at BO or the democratic party for dissing them, BO loses the general election.

(I know, I know, you think he's going to carry Idaho and Montana and all the states he's carrying and that will make up for FL. Sorry, it doesn't work that way and he doesn't have anywhere near the appeal you think he does. I'd encourage him to seat FL and MI, take a VP slot and get into the White House. He'll be in a stronger position in 8 years than he is now. If he is given the nomination now his career is over just like Kerry.)

It seems that the only "bully" here (sorry BHO)is the DNC. I can't believe how "downright mean" the DNC has become (apologies Michelle). It strikes me that the DNC is "guided by fear" in its ruling. For being the most tolerant party, the Demoncrats are incredibly intolerant.

In Tuesday’s contest Senator Clinton received a strong vote of confidence from the people. The people voted for a candidate of vast and diverse political and public service experience, a command of foreign policy, as demonstrated by the endorsement of 30 of the most distinguished and high ranking military elite, a comprehensive and brilliant understanding of and plan for economic recovery, and a pragmatic solution to healthcare. She not only has plans she has a record of significant bi partisan legislation in healthcare, education, children’s advocacy, military safeguards, military and veterans benefits. She has successfully extended her hand across the partisan aisle in order to do good for the American people. And , by the way, she is by far the most inspirational of the candidates--she touches people's hearts by her manner, instills confidence, and raises up the hopes of accomplishing great things when it appears as if all of the odds suggest the contrary. She inspires people to fight for what they believe against all odds and not to get distracted by false promises, infusions of quick fixes, or manipulative lies and deceit. She maintains a strong and dignified focus on her mission and her beliefs in the face of unimaginable adversity, smear campaigns, and attacks. If you want to talk inspiration--talk Senator Clinton. Tuesday, the country voted for this remarkable and courageous woman who is completely committed to her vision of what America could be while equally committed to the realities of how we will get there. We know that she will stay the course, confront the challenges head on, and find workable solutions—we know that because of her ability to do this on the campaign trail. Everyone is passionate about the election but let's stick to the facts and not get into gossipy personal attacks with no foundation.

"The persons in Florida and Michigan who knew the rules and scheduled the primaries anyway are responsible for this mess. They have disenfrachised their own people. They can not act like spolied children and demand their way. They need to accept responsibility and either come up with their own plans for resolving this, or face the consequences of their intentional violation of the rules."

Florida and Michigan are two different situations. Democratic voters in FL had no say in when the primary was held since the Republican controlled Legislature made the decision.

The DNC owes FL Dems and apology. At least the Republicans had enough sense to only cut 1/2 the delegates as punishment, something that would have worked well for the Dems. If the idea was to give the Florida Primary less of an impact a cut in delegates would have been a reasonable soultion.

Florida has been losing Dem voters for years. Thanks, Howard Dean and DNC, the Florida Dem Party was in bad enough shape, now you've given us a death blow.

I think this is a strong statement of resolve for the DNC. The people of Florida and Michigan didn't create this fiasco for them, their elected leadership did, governors, state legislature, etc. did. So if the states populations weren't involved in the process, it will take a grass roots effort to change the situation.

Inform and mobilize the people in these states and make them demand that their elected leadership take the steps, as dictated by the DNC, to rectify this. As of now, neither state has done so. The parameters are set, and they need to comply or tell the constituents of theirs states that they are the cause. If all voters get informed and involved, it will force the elected leaders to act in the will of the people.

Dean and all those who claim "the rules are the rules" like they are being enforced equally might not know or are ignoring that the earlier primary states of IA, NH and SC also broke DNC rules when they made
their dates earlier than previously decided.


Rule 11.A specifically set the date for the primaries & caucuses for those
three states as "no earlier than 22 days before the first Tuesday in
February" (Iowa), "no earlier than 14 days before the first Tuesday in
February" (New Hampshire), and "no earlier than 7 days before the first
Tuesday in February" (South Carolina).


Iowa held their caucuses on January 3rd and that is more than 22 days before the
first Tuesday in February. New Hampshire held their primary on January 8th and
that is more than 17 days before the first Tuesday in February. And South
Carolina held their primary on January 26th. That is more than 7 days before
the first Tuesday in February.


The DNC accepted the rule breaking states and enfranchised the voters of Iowa, New Hampshire, and
South Carolina by breaking their DNC rule. Meanwhile disenfranchising Florida and Michigan for breaking the very same rule.

I am a Democrat living in Florida. I did not break the so-called rules. Attention everyone --- especially Howard Dean: Florida Democrats had no power to stop the early presidential primary date in the Republican-controlled Florida Legislature. Now, explain to me again why the Democrats in Florida are being punished. I'll be staying home on election day.

After reading all, yes all, of these comments I am convinced that John McCain is going to become our next president.

These comments can be grouped into 6 groups:

Obama is good and Clinton is bad. Ignore the voters and do what is best for Obama.

Clinton is good and Obama is bad. Ignore the voters and do what is best for Clinton.

State or national, committees or legislatures are evil.

“Why can’t we all just get along?”

Obama or Clinton is evil and I really wasn’t paying attention to what the discussion was anyway.

Split the delegates 50/50. (This is one of my personal favorites. This is the way many nations we hate run elections. Just ignore the actual vote. Actually this probably falls in the Obama group anyway.)

I haven’t actually tried to count the comments and put them into categories. That would be like a vote and I don’t think anyone would think it was a fair one. Anyway, a number of people voted more than once.

Analyzing the heck out of what happened in the past is not very helpful in solving the current issue. Hillary had some private fund raisers, a few Barak ads leaked, the Republican “controlled” legislature changed the date with the overwhelming support of the Democrats after the DNC made some bad changes themselves… There is no way to take the earlier votes and make them fair to the people that did or didn’t vote. There may be some value in analyzing what happened sometime after next November to make sure there is a fairer system for all and to make sure this sort of thing doesn’t happen again.

What has struck me the most is the extreme animosity between the two groups of supporters. Hillbill is a b/witch who will loose the election and bring the whole Democratic party down with her. Barak Osama only wins in small states that are going to go Republican anyway and should drop out to save the Democratic party. If these folks are at all representative of Democratic voters and a reasonable number either don’t vote or vote for McCain then the election is over. This issue will leak all over the country but even if just swings the two states involved it could be decisive.

What to do? Start by focusing on winning the election in November, whoever the Democratic candidate is. That probably means holding another vote in Florida and Michigan. It doesn’t matter who pays for the elections, just don’t fight about it and certainly don’t use the past decisions to try to force or avoid who pays. That only helps make another Democrat look bad. Better to have lots of groups say they want to do the right thing for the voters and offer to pay their part, even the two candidates camps. This still may not be enough to convince the Hillary hating, Barak loving or Barak hating, Hillary loving Democrats to keep McCain out of the White House.

BTW, I am actually a registered Republican. I have voted for Democrats for the presidency in three of the past four elections. Right now I am planning on voting for John McCain, but let’s see what happens.

Howard Dean stand-up to the Clinton's. If there is a do-over in any state. I will not support this party.

Howard Dean stand-up to the Clinton's. If there is a do-over in any state. I will not support this party.

If you all steal this election we are moving to the Independent Party before the November election. This election will not be stolen again, in favor of Hillary Clinton. When things don't go her way she, comes on with the sympathy cry and every body falls for it. She is to crooked for me.

If you all steal this election we are moving to the Independent Party before the November election. This election will not be stolen again, in favor of Hillary Clinton. When things don't go her way she, comes on with the sympathy cry and every body falls for it. She is to crooked for me.

Stick to your guns Howard! A simple fact of fair and decent living has been too frequently forgotten lately. To wit, you don't change the rules in the middle of the game. It's about time Democrats started behaving like adults and not a bunch of unruly brats!

Apparently, the Good Old Boys in the Dem Party are so determined to have the candidate of their choice (Obama) that they are willing to destroy the whole party and get another Republican president to do it. They are certainly a joke, a bad joke.

*sigh* As a lifelong, loyal Democrat and a resident of Florida, I haven't even gotten over my post-traumatic stress disorder from the 2000 election, and now here we are in the SEQUEL: "2008 - It's Happening Again!" Only this time it is our own party's Cent Comm (a.k.a., the brain trust known as the DNC) that is CHOOSING to disenfranchise millions of innocent, long-suffering voters in Florida and many more millions in Michigan, all over the violation of an arcane rule that is patently unfair in the first place and that was violated by the REPUBLICAN-controlled legislature in Florida, something that the Democratic voters of Florida had NOTHING to do with and ZERO control over. Should millions of voters be punished and disenfranchised from the election process AGAIN, all over something we have no control over? This is RIDICULOUS! Count our delegates, and I mean count the delegates of BOTH Florida and Michigan! And do NOT whine to me about "Oh, but poor Barack wasn't even on the Michigan primary ballot--that's not fair!" Um, yeah, well, see, it's like this: Obama CHOSE to remove himself from the ballot. No one forced him to do so. It was his exquisitely stupid and short-sighted choice. So, oh well. A free and fair election was held with record turnout, and our votes should count from both states.

As for Howard Dean, I want him OUT as head of MY party. After the dust settles on this year's primary season, there are going to be millions upon millions of us Florida and Michigan Democrats will make it our mission in life to get Dean and Brazile OUT. Our other mission is to get a fair, rotating, regional primary system in place so that two small, homogenous states (IA and NH) don't control the entire primary season and when states can schedule their primaries, so that this never happens again!

omg. Will I ever wake up from the opening dream sequence of Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9.11"? I'm really beginning to wonder!

P.S. To "primrose": you need to get your facts straight to avoid posting any further inaccurate, ignorant statements like the following: "Stick to your guns Howard! A simple fact of fair and decent living has been too frequently forgotten lately. To wit, you don't change the rules in the middle of the game. It's about time Democrats started behaving like adults and not a bunch of unruly brats!" The FACT is that, in Florida, it was the REPUBLICAN-controlled legislature that behaved like "unruly brats" by changing the primary date, in violation of the rules of both parties. Anyway, the rule is patently unfair we need rotating regional primaries. Otherwise, this is just going to happen again, with even more big, diverse states leap-frogging the primary dates ahead of Iowa and New Hampshire. I hate to agree with Republicans, but in point of fact: why SHOULD IA and NH go first EVERY election cycle? I'm not saying the rule should have been violated, but one positive thing to come out of this is that the rule is being questioned. In the name of not irritating two small, homogenous states, now the Democratic party has two HUGE, diverse swing states royally fuming at them. Good going, Howard!

I'm a Democrat from Michigan I don't want my vote appealed in the summer, I want it to count now! So much for democracy!

I'm a Democrat from Michigan I don't want my vote appealed in the summer, I want it to count now! So much for democracy!

I completely agree with the many posts that state: Rules are Rules. We are setting a terrible example not only as democrats but as role models for our youth that "Rules can be broken". Isn't this what we try to teach our children everyday? To indulge a potential candidate that may hold the highest office in our country by supporting a change in rules that she already agreed to is just idiotic. A five year old learns as much in Kindergarten. Hillary is low and ruthless and undemocratic in everyway.Obama is genuine and sincere and he is not seeking to win the nomination by cheating. Hillary's behavior is unacceptable. And why is Chelsea escorting her mother everywhere? What ever happened to Bill? He he kept in the background so we won't remember all the bad that he created in the White House. His presence might be a reminder that Hillary is only owning up to his positive achievements and none of the bad. Drop out Hillary.

I completely agree with the many posts that state: Rules are Rules. We are setting a terrible example not only as democrats but as role models for our youth that "Rules can be broken". Isn't this what we try to teach our children everyday? To indulge a potential candidate that may hold the highest office in our country by supporting a change in rules that she already agreed to is just idiotic. A five year old learns as much in Kindergarten. Hillary is low and ruthless and undemocratic in everyway.Obama is genuine and sincere and he is not seeking to win the nomination by cheating. Hillary's behavior is unacceptable. And why is Chelsea escorting her mother everywhere? What ever happened to Bill? He he kept in the background so we won't remember all the bad that he created in the White House. His presence might be a reminder that Hillary is only owning up to his positive achievements and none of the bad. Drop out Hillary.

To Christi and all of my other fellow disenfranchised Democratic voters of Florida and Michigan, hang in there. The rules committee may yet rule in our favor, and also there is a lawsuit by a Florida Democrat which is going to be heard in the 11th Circuit Court of Federal Appeals. Justice may yet prevail and our delegates may count. Of course, that said, legally, it is a bit dicey because primary elections are basically at the will and whim of the parties and they can set their own rules. Yet there are other legal principles at play here, too, which is why the appeals court is interested in hearing the case. Bottom line, should MILLIONS of INNOCENT voters have their voice in the primary selection process of a nominee summarily yanked away because of an arcane rule about when the date of the primary should be? The punishment seems to both NOT fit the crime and NOT be directed at the right people. The voters did nothing wrong. In fact, we turned out in record numbers in both states, despite the fact that the DNC stated we'd have no delegates. Why? We knew that the delegate situation was being challenged legally, and we--we in Florida, anyway, I can't speak for Michigan--REFUSE to be disenfranchised again, we REFUSE to have our votes taken away. Let Howard Dean try. It is already coming back to bite the DNC in the rear, unfortunately. I hate to see our party self-destruct like this, and in a year when we should have it made in the shade! As Will Rogers said: "I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat."

(Hey, you have to be able to laugh at yourself, right?)

Anyway: SEAT OUR DELEGATES! Dean: Seat them, or you will have MILLIONS of us protesting in the streets of Denver. I'm just sayin'! Worse: you will have loyal, lifelong, committed Democrats like myself who just are not going to be able to bring themselves to vote in the GENERAL election (when the Dems kinda sorta NEED Florida and Michigan...guess Dean didn't think that far ahead, nor has Obama with all his comments dissing us) for a man who showed utter disdain for our votes counting in the primary. I will NOT vote for Obama, period. No way, no how. I will have to sit this one out if he is the nominee. And it is all Howard Dean's fault. Dean Scream 2008 - The Sequel!

To Gina, who stated: "I completely agree with the many posts that state: Rules are Rules. We are setting a terrible example not only as democrats but as role models for our youth that "Rules can be broken". Isn't this what we try to teach our children everyday?"

Normally, I wholeheartedly agree with you, but there are times when a rule or law is so unfair that non-violent civil disobedience is the only way to change things. My hero is Martin Luther King, Jr. If he, if Rosa Parks, if Ghandi, had not broken unjust rules, where would the cause of justice be today? I'm not defending the Republicans who broke the rules of the primary dates, but I'm just opining that indeed the rule IS very unfair and arbitrary in the first place and does need changing, and therefore, again (sorry if I sound like a broken record, but...) should millions of voters who had nothing to do with breaking the rule in the first place have our precious votes taken away because it was violated, when it is such a STOOO-pit rule in the first place? I mean, think about it: WHY oh why should Iowa and NH go first EVERY election cycle? No offense to Iowans and New Hampshire citizens, but WHY do these two states have a lock on going first? Personally, I think the rule should NOT have been violated, but it was. But to me, an even worse injustice has been the DNC taking away the delegates, taking away the VOTES, of millions of citizens who had NOTHING to do with violating the rule. That's all I'm saying.

P.S. AND we should move to a fair system of rotating, regional primaries by the next presidential primary season to avoid anything like this sorry state of affairs EVER happening again.

Peace out!

The problem was caused by State Legislatures, not state Democratic Parties! And it is a problem.

I for one pledge to contribute to a party fund dedicated to paying for the revotes.

No other solution is acceptable! If you were to seat the delegates based on uncontested primaries, thereby negating the votes of millions in the many states that followed the rules, the result would be untenable. And I would be forced to vote for the Republican Presidential candidate, for only the third time in thirteen elections.

I am a registered democrat, and I want the votes of our US citizens in the Florida and Michigan primaries to be translated into voting delagates to be sent to the national convention, to elect our party's candidate for President.


Howard Dean, stick to your guns. The DNC is suppose to remain neutral,enforce the rules and definitely not change the rules to give one candidate an advantage. After 18 months, why is this even an issue? If the tables were turned and these were states Obama should win, this would not even be considered. He would have been told to stop whining! Don't insult our intelligence by pretending this is anything but Hillary manipulating the system to cheat!

Right now the Democrats are handing the Republicans the gift of two key states in the November election. Whoever wins the Democratic nomination, they will be poisoned by this issue, at least in these two states and maybe more. Anyone remember Chicago in 1968? Think about a whole bunch of voters and delegates from Florida and Michigan on the streets of Denver chanting “every vote counts”. Better yet, how about adding an opposing group out there too from the Obama camp chanting “follow the rules”? I doubt Mayor Hickenlooper will get in the proper nostalgic spirit by ordering his police to break up the gathering with force, but then we can’t have everything.

Now imagine a press conference with Obama, Clinton and Dean standing side by side. Clinton and Obama state that “tomorrow we will be fighting each other for the nomination. But today we are joining together to make sure the Democratic voters in all states are heard. No more stolen elections. We are joining together to do what is right.” They agree to split the cost of a revote in the two states so that the votes can count under the DNC rules. Dean steps up and says he will work with the state Democratic parties to make sure this happens.

All of a sudden the Democrats look like winners again. Only if.

I live here in Fl and I was well aware that our vote wouldn't count. Therefore, I didn't go and vote on the 29th of January. It is like we are in a revolving door. We can not once again be the reason another strong candidate loses this race. Obama wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan. We didn't have recored turn out on voting day like other states because we knew it didn't count. This man speaks of hope and I believe in fairness.

I live here in Fl and I was well aware that our vote wouldn't count. Therefore, I didn't go and vote on the 29th of January. It is like we are in a revolving door. We can not once again be the reason another strong candidate loses this race. Obama wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan. We didn't have recored turn out on voting day like other states because we knew it didn't count. This man speaks of hope and I believe in fairness.

Emerson Floyd said;
“Obama's also shown the kind of judgment that we need in an executive with his vote on the Iraq War Resolution (not against all wars, just stupid ones). It is a judgment that has not yet taken a back seat to the cynical Washington political calculus. Don't confuse resistance with naivety”

This is why I love the Dems they are so ill informed. BHO did not vote on the above resolution he was not a US senator at the time. All he did make a speech. Wow now that’s leadership.

So..... why did Fl. and MI. go ahead and have thier primaries? Who paid for it then? That's who should pay for it again, if it's decided it's needed to have a nominee. Seems to me there is some people in Fl. and Mi. that need to lose thier jobs, elected or otherwise, for going ahead with the primaries to begin with. Just plain stupid. See what happens when rules/laws aren't followed?

HERE WE GO..POLITICS AS USUAL..IF U DO NOT LIKE THE RESULTS, CHANGE THE RULES..WELL, I HAVE HAD IT...NO MATTER THE NOMINEE, CLINTON OR OBAMA, THE RULES GET CHANGED, FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 66 YEARS I VOTE REPUBLICAN..I AM JUST EXHAUSTED WITH THE BACK ROOM WORKING AND DISHONESTY OF THE POLITICAL SYSTEM IN OUR COUNTRY...

I'm all for re-doing Michigan and Florida. As an Obama supporter nothing excites me more especially since the word is Michigan will be a caucus.

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/03/06/breaking-michigan-caucus-likely-says-dnc-rules-committee-member.aspx

We'll take another one in the win column. While I have the utmost respect for the rules, I do not want to run the chance of disenfranchising the Michigan and Florida voters. Please do everything you can to make sure the brave service member from Florida posting earlier does get a chance to mail in his or her ballot absentee.

Those in Florida and Michigan, please remember that this was Howard Dean's moronic decision, no one else's. Vote for change. Obama 08.

This is a response to the following quote by Dick: "If you were to seat the delegates based on uncontested primaries, thereby negating the votes of millions in the many states that followed the rules, the result would be untenable." Dick: the primaries were fully contested. In Florida, ALL of the candidates appeared on the ballot. None of the candidates campaigned in the state in person or ran ads (except Obama did, apparently accidentally, run one national ad on CNN that appeared in FL). Therefore, it was a level playing field. In Michigan, it is true that Obama removed himself from the ballot, but as I've stated until I'm blue in the face, THAT WAS HIS CHOICE. If YOU take yourself off of a ballot, then no one can vote for you: that does NOT render the election results themselves invalid and, frankly, it is amazing to me that Obama supporters actually have managed to twist logic around to the point of convincing themselves that somehow there is a vast anti-Obama conspiracy by virtue of the fact that he CHOSE to remove his name. True, he thought there would be no delegates. BAD miscalculation. Didn't he realize that there were lawsuits going on? Didn't he realize that millions of Democrats in two huge, diverse swing states were fighting this? Didn't he know it would come before the rules committee? Again: HIS choice to remove his name. I'm sick of Obama supporters saying that somehow only Obama, quote "followed the rules". Hillary broke no rules. She signed a pledge to not campaign in Florida or Michigan, as did all the other candidates (except possibly for Kucinich, I'm not sure on that one). Frankly, I find it DISGUSTING that the DNC forced such a pledge down their throats and that they all CHOSE to sign it, but there ya go, they did. Probably the DNC is also responsible for pressuring Obama and other candidates to remove their names from the MI ballot, BUT there was no "rule" saying they had to bow to that pressure. They absolutely could have all left their names on the ballot as Hillary did, had they CHOSEN to. So, in my opinion, the elections were fair, they had record voter turnout, and the results are valid.

SEAT THE DELEGATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Or have a "do-over", I'm not picky. What I do NOT want is the ASANINE suggestion I'm hearing now by some in the media to "split the FL and MI delegates 50/50 between the two candidates!" WHAT?! Um: NO, how is that representing what the VOTERS voted for? Either seat our delegates or don't seat them, but don't just randomly assign them, as the whole point of a delegation is to REPRESENT the voters.)

I think the rules should be followed and not seat the delegates as stated initially. I also think that the candidates need to stop bashing each other and helping write adds for McCain. They should also stop wasting money needed in the general. The party should just put them on the ticket as the total delegates are counted. Pres. has the most and veep, second most. It's the only way out of the mess as it's too close to call it for either one of them. Together they will bring an historic ticket and landslide. Individually, each can be beaten by McCain no matter who else if put on the ticket. It's gone too far to turn back for either of them.

Mr Dean, Thank you for sticking to the rules and asking the states involved to come up with a plan that fits inside those guidelines. Our country and elections were founded on the principal that every vote counts, please work hard to make this election as fair as possible. if the DNC chooses a candidate based on foul play, I suspect it will be hard to get the party to rally around the candidate much less the people out to vote.

we again seem to be leading to the clinton party so we can lose everything again

No offense, Gayle, but it is precisely because of the "every vote counts" principle that the Florida and Michigan delegates should be seated. Unless The DNC really wants to disenfranchise millions upon millions of Florida and Michigan voters who are lifelong, loyal members of our party, such as myself.

An arcane, unfair rule was broken, that is true. But punishing millions of voters who had NOTHING to do with it is not the American way, and it certainly is asanine in terms of "party building". For example: I have never sat out a presidential (or any) election in my life, and I have ALWAYS voted Democratic. That said, if Obama becomes the nominee, I will sit out the general election. Why? He has made it abundantly clear that he does not want my vote to county in the