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More Superdelegate Suasion

10 Mar 2008 09:57 am

Steve Grossman, former DNC chair, major donor and Clinton supporter, urges fellow superdelegates to resist the "blandishments of those who would trivialize their roles in the nominating process, and their responsibilities to the party, and to the country, about which we care so deeply."

Grossman's letter was obtained by CBS News's Steve Chaggaris, who passed it along.

Grossman, like the Clintons, shares a dim, class-inflected view of caucuses:

"Should caucuses, in which citizens who wish to express their choice are obliged to either show up at an appointed hour and sit in a room for up to several hours or not show up at all, be regarded as reflecting the popular will as much as primaries, where voters whose lives do not permit them to spend three hours in a locked room at the end of a workday can simply go into their local elementary school, vote and leave--like voters across the country do on the first Tuesday in November?"

Read his full missive after the jump.



An Open Letter to Democratic Party Super Delegates

From Steven Grossman, Former National Chairman,

Democratic National Committee

Like many Democratic activists and officials honored to have been selected as so-called super delegates to this year's Democratic national convention, I've spent most of my life engaged in the fight for the values that the Democratic party embodies. These values were perhaps best articulated by President Franklin D. Roosevelt in his second inaugural address: "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little."

Like some of my colleagues, my commitment to the Democratic party and my passion for its most cherished principles can fairly be said to be part of my DNA. In my own case, my grandfather, father, uncle and I were all given the opportunity to serve as delegates to Democratic national conventions over the last 60 years. Indeed, my grandfather and father comprised the only "father-son" team among the delegates to the 1948 convention in Philadelphia that chose Harry Truman as the party's standard bearer. Given that family history, it will be understood how proud I was to serve first as Chairman of the Massachusetts Democratic Party and then as Chairman of the Democratic National Committee.

Some commentators, observing the current deadlock between Senators Clinton and Obama as they vie for the Democratic presidential nomination, have suggested that as super delegates, our function is to be mindless tabulators of primaries and caucuses won, or popular votes amassed. Despite the super delegates' lifetimes spent working on state, national and international issues, and thinking seriously about the grave challenges, and the dangerous adversaries, facing our country, these commentators demand that we suspend our independent judgments and jettison our profound responsibilities--to the party and, frankly, to the country itself. Even though the very party rules that provide for super delegates contemplated that we would exercise those independent judgments and fulfill those responsibilities, there are those who believe that we should confine ourselves to adding up numbers.

But super delegates were not selected by the national party to be either potted plants or rubber stamps. We were selected because under party rules that have been in place for a generation, our party concluded that we had demonstrated the ability to act as stewards of the national party--and of the national interest. By dint of our experience in the community and our public service, we were adjudged fit to fulfill a moral responsibility to act in the best interest of the country as we saw it--and to be strong enough to withstand the criticisms of those who might object to the political impact of the independent conclusions we reached.

Our duty to our party and our country is a fiduciary one, a sacred trust. We are obliged to regard ourselves in a real sense as trustees, charged with making conscientious judgments on behalf of the party but, more importantly, the country we care, and worry, about.

Any dispassionate analysis of the current nomination fight shows that Senators Clinton and Obama are breathtakingly close in terms of delegates won and popular vote recorded. It is likely that after the remaining primaries and caucuses have been held, the already narrow gap in delegates will shrink yet further, and the equally slim gap in popular vote will also close, with Senator Clinton having a meaningful chance to overtake Senator Obama's popular vote total altogether, particularly when the collective will of Florida’s and Michigan’s primary voters is finally taken into account. At a minimum, the nomination process must be permitted to run its full course, so that not only are the candidates' qualifications, character and positions fully vetted, but everyone who is entitled to vote is actually permitted to do so.

This means that, in the first instance, those super delegates who have not made up their minds or who have decided to remain neutral until all the votes have been cast should resist the pressure to abort the process. We are, after all, electing not a student council president but the President of the United States of America, the leader of the free world and, in real terms, the most powerful person on the planet. There is no amount of prudence and care which can possibly be excessive, under the circumstances.

But what happens after the final primaries are over in early June, when by most analyses neither Senator Clinton nor Senator Obama will have enough pledged delegates to secure the nomination? If the role of super delegates is merely to assess primary and caucus results, how do they wade through the thicket created by the important questions that those results have generated?

Should caucuses, in which citizens who wish to express their choice are obliged to either show up at an appointed hour and sit in a room for up to several hours or not show up at all, be regarded as reflecting the popular will as much as primaries, where voters whose lives do not permit them to spend three hours in a locked room at the end of a workday can simply go into their local elementary school, vote and leave--like voters across the country do on the first Tuesday in November?

Should the results in states that have rarely if ever voted Democratic in a presidential election over the last half century be accorded the same weight as the results in large states that form the heart of the Democratic base, and which the Democratic presidential nominee must carry in order to win the White House?

Should primaries in which voters who are not in fact members of the Democratic party voted in significant numbers be given the same standing for the purpose of choosing the Democratic party nominee as those in which only Democrats voted?

These are difficult questions, if not impossible ones, and super delegates who see their duty as mere numbers crunchers will have a difficult time sorting out the answers.

But being a super delegate is not the same as being a numbers cruncher. It is about consulting one’s conscience about what is best for the United States, and about the party that we hope will assume the leadership of the United States.

I have made my own personal judgment, and that is that Senator Clinton is the better qualified, more experienced and by far the more battle-tested Democrat to lead this country in a world that is increasingly dangerous, and where the stakes simply could not be higher. Others have made a different choice, and may yet make a different choice. But for the moment, super delegates who are not committed to either candidate should resist the blandishments of those who would trivialize their roles in the nominating process, and their responsibilities to the party, and to the country, about which we care so deeply.

Comments (49)

Just what Hillary needs. A story about class differences, noblesse oblige, and prep school heroes.

Dear Superdelegates,

Even though many of you are elected or party officials in states which I am arguing shouldn't count, please vote for my candidate anyway.

Yours,

Steve

Could you imagine if she won the nomination in this fashion? Counting out the caucuses, or having the superdelegates overturn the pledged delegates because of the caucuses? All this in concert with re-doing Florida and Michigan on her terms after she agreed that they wouldn't count, or seating them as they stand now?

Pyrrhic victories will forever be known as Clintonian victories.

I never thought I'd see so much blatant arm-twisting and throwing-of-political-weight in the Democratic party. Surely someone has explained the situation to her thoroughly. Why is she going through these violent dynastic death coughs? She really does feel entitled to this, doesn't she?

This letter is full of misrepresentations, most notably the attempts to disregard states Clinton hasn't won.

FICTION: Clinton wins more "blue states" than Obama.

FACT: Obama has won 11 of the 17 contests in states/districts won by John Kerry in 2004 (not including Michigan). Clinton has won six. Obama's wins: WA, MN, WI, IL, HI, ME, VT, CT, DE, MD, DC. Clinton's wins: CA, NH, MA, RI, NY, NJ. Of the three remaining blue states, Obama is expected to win one (OR), Clinton another (PA), and the third (MI) seems to be a toss-up. Essentially, Clinton expects us to believe that Obama cannot win Democratic strongholds in CA and the northeast (places where he lost primaries), but to assume that she will win Democratic strongholds like IL, CT and MD (places where she lost primaries), as well as critical swing states like MN, WI and IA (where she also lost).


FICTION: Clinton can win more contestable "red states" than Obama (as opposed to states like ID, UT or WY, where Obama won large victories).

FACT: Obama seems to have an advantage when it comes to "red states" that have a reasonable chance to be in play. He has won contests in VA, CO, MO and IA (four states that total 40 electoral votes). Clinton has won OH, NV, NM and AR (four states that total 36 electoral votes). This assumes that states like TN and OK (Clinton), and SC, GA and KS (Obama) will not be in play, but throwing them into the mix only increases his seeming advantage.


FICTION: Clinton performs better in primaries than Obama.

FACT: Obama has won 15 primaries (SC, AL, DE, GA, IL, MO, UT, LA, DC, MD, VA, WI, VT, Virgin Islands and Democrats Abroad). Clinton has won 13 primaries (NH, AZ, AR, CA, MA, NJ, NM, NY, OK, TN, OH, RI, TX). He has won more delegates awarded in primaries than she has. Obama won primaries in VA, MD, IL, GA, MO and WI-- all among the 20 biggest states in the country by population. Moreover, Obama's large primary victory in UT suggests that his strength in western states may be due to the nature of the region's Democratic voters, not the fact that most of those states held caucuses. Obama probably still would have won ID, UT, CO, AK and ND even if those states had held primaries.

Dear Superdelegates,

You were given this cushy patronage title so you could save the voters from themselves. Nevermind the naysayers who argue that you'll doom the Democratic Party for a generation if you overturn the will of the people.

Besides, the Clintons don't care about the long-term prospects for the party anyway - just look at the 1990s. It's all about the now!

xoxo,
Steve

The Clinton's had Ron Brown murdered in 1996. There is compelling evidence to link them to the death. At the time, Ron Brown was a fast rising star of the party and DNC Chairman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Brown_%28U.S._politician%29

If you look at the list of DNC officers past and present, you can see the stranglehold they have on the party.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_National_Committee

Here's what I don't get: where were these impassioned please before people started voting? Where were the efforts to reform the evidently undemocratic Democratic primary system? For that matter, where was the strident defense of Florida and Michigan's right to do whatever they wished with regard to the primary calendar?

It all seems a little, oh, self-serving at this point.

The letter's argument is that clearly superdelegates aren't there to be the mere number crunchers or rubberstamps that Obama's campaign now wants them to be.
Obama supporters respond to this argument by changing the subject.

I don't think anyone is seriously arguing otherwise, MiChAeL. But the letter was so impenetrable and poorly drafted (a real Ambinder, if you will), it was frequently difficult to discern what, exactly, the author was trying to argue.

Jeff Larson:

The answer is pretty evident. When the Clinton campaign still had hope they could eke out a win in Iowa, they weren't going to blow that by arguing that caucuses are undemocratic and a much less legitimate expression of the voters' will than primaries. Pandering - as we have seen from both candidates (especially Obama) over NAFTA - is a part of politics. Also, the Clinton campaign likely saw little need to make that argument last year since no one thought the nomination was going to ultimately come down to who won the caucuses. That has never been the case before. Obviously the Clinton campaigns failure to organize early in the caucus states was a mistake, but that doesn't mean they are wrong to point out their odiousness.

It's the same thing with Michigan and Florida. They didn't want to alienate the voters in Iowa and New Hampshire (or Nevada and South Carolina) and they didn't think they would mean the margin of victory.

Jeff Larson fails to realize that, before Clinton lost all those caucuses, it was difficult to see just how undemocratic and discriminatory they were.

But, now that she's lost so many of them, there is more than ample evidence pointing to their inherent unfairness; after all, any fairly run primary contest would lead to a Clinton victory.

Ah, it seems Tim K has beaten me to the punch--but his answer has an air of earnestness about it that is frightening.

I call Michelle Obama 'juicy berry'. 'Cause you know:

The darker the berry, the sweeter the juice!!

I wouldn't characterize it as frightening, but I also observe an earnestness among many Obama supporters that I find remarkable. It is the belief and hope that a new and different kind of politics is possible and achievable if only citizens have the courage to make the change. I genuinely believe that sentiment is laudable and represents the very best elements of citizenship and civic engagement. So I want to make that clear to all the Obama supporters who comment on this blog: Barack Obama is a very impressive individual and I understand with why many want to see him become the president.

Also, the Clinton campaign likely saw little need to make that argument last year since no one thought the nomination was going to ultimately come down to who won the caucuses. That has never been the case before.

Except for the, uh, last election, when Kerry essentially wrapped up the nomination by winning a single caucus. So, nope, no warning at all.

Still, I'm saddened to see that Sen. Clinton "saw little need" to protest the disenfranchisement of millions of voters, when it might have made a difference. Profiles in courage, indeed :(

Tim K...why do you persist with your racist rantings? What happened to you as a child that turned you into such a douchebag?

Jeff Larson:

How shocking that politics sometimes involves not always being upfront about ones' beliefs and motives.

It seems like that reality is a little bit too much for some people who would rather live in the political equivalent of fantasy land where everyone is always sincere and truthful and stands by their principles no matter what. It's obvious to me that Barack Obama is under so such illusions, anymore than Hillary Clinton is.

Every campaign is choosing their metric of success in this race depending on how well they are doing in what areas. For the Obama campaign it is pledged delegates, because they have an insurmountable lead with those. For the Clinton campaign it is big state primaries. The Obama campaign thinks superdelegates should be merely an echo of the pledged delegates, while the Clinton campaign believes they should exercise independent judgment. The Clinton campaign wants Florida and Michigan to count because they won them, and Obama doesn't want them to count because he lost them. These are all self-serving arguments.

Fog of War

As a Obama supporter I feel great. No doubt he will be the nominee. This is the fog of war and we have good people who are working to clear that.
Though as supporters, are role is just as important to push the case.

You know, I am actually sympathetic to the Clintonistas' arguments against caucuses but now, in the middle of the campaign, is not the time to have that argument. You can't decide that 2 strikes makes an out in the 7th inning. I welcome Clinton to push for every state to have a primary rather than a caucus... in 2012.

...consider the will of the society enounced by the majority of a single vote as sacred as if unanimous is the first of all lessons in importance"

- Thomas Jefferson, 1817

Again: Much of the pro-Obama support is allied with a desire to see new leadership in the Democratic party.

Grossman's silly, embarrassing letter only serves to underline many of the reasons why new party leadership is needed. On the plus side, Grossman may have done some damage to Hillary with this -- if we elect Hillary, these guys will remain in the leadership. In the meantime, he's certainly done plenty damage to his own reputation. I think we've seen more aggrieved narcissism in this campaign than we have in many a moon.

The jefferson vote is nonsense. What is the rest of the sentence? The context that it was said in?

The letter from a superdelegate is not unclear. That is one of Larson's favorite dodges whenever there is an argument that he does not favor.

The superdelegate (not Hillary as one poster suggests above) is quite plainly saying our job as superdelegates is not what Obama says it is. The extraordinary circumstances in this cycle show us that we are not number crunchers or rubber stamps.

I personally did not really understand how different caucuses were until this cycle. I didn't understand that they were so much cheaper and that states had caucuses for that reason.
Now,
It seems clear that Obama's people have gamed the process by gaming the caucuses.
A certain amount of shame is involved: how cynical can they get?

Let's ask voters which they'd rather have at the convention, 796 superdelegates or 776 potted plants...I wait, voters don't count.


Every campaign is choosing their metric of success in this race depending on how well they are doing in what areas. For the Obama campaign it is pledged delegates, because they have an insurmountable lead with those. For the Clinton campaign it is big state primaries.
--Tim K

With all due respect, Tim, you might as well argue that the Giants chose points scored in the Super Bowl as the metric of success, while the Patriots chose first downs scored--only one of those measures actually matters in terms of winning. If the Patriots tried to argue for reinterpreting the results in terms of a more favorite metric, they wouldn't be taken seriously. But the Clintons get to ignore the rules and move the goal posts around the field until they find a measure where they might be ahead.

To Michael C: In politics, those who game the process win. And if any there is any "shame," it's that Clinton didn't take the caucuses seriously.

Hhhm, on that basis presumably Grossman will be abstaining from the delegate vote as existence of super delegates is way democratic than caucuses. This is clearly a smokescreen, there is only one thing the super delegates should be considering and that’s who can win against the republicans. Come the election, pretty much every democrat will vote for the democrat winner regardless of who it is. The difference is Clinton, unlike Obama, has very little appeal outside of the democratic electorate. In fact for many, she is a turn-off. Obama note only appeals to neutrals, but possibly even a crossover of republicans. If Clinton is the candidate it’s business as usual with a traditional red against blues fight and all about getting your vote out on the day. If Obama is the candidate then it’s a very different story.

Michael C.,

Obama has won 15 primaries (as opposed to caucuses). FIFTEEN. He hasn't "gamed" the system. He has won primaries in Illinois, Virginia, Maryland, Wisconsin, Missouri and Georgia. All of these are among the 20 largest states in the country.

As far as his strength in caucuses is concerned, isn't it possible that it's a function of his appeal in the west, and not a procedural thing? After all, he won the primary in Utah going away. Was that undemocratic? Obama probably would have won South Dakota, Wyoming, Colorado and Idaho even if they had held primaries. If anything, his popular vote margin would be wider if those states had held primaries.

The letter from a superdelegate is not unclear. That is one of Larson's favorite dodges whenever there is an argument that he does not favor.

I, for one, feel gratified and validated that someone is taking such close notice of my posts dogging on Ambinder.

Now, Steven Grossman, as sincere and thoughtful as I think you are in your assessment of things, may I humbly say that you are wrong. Granted, you and your fellow super delegates are entrusted with much; including the near sacred, and the unfettered power to weigh in on the establishment of good governance in every community, state and all other places where the United States has dominion. But, superdelegates (or more accurately party leaders) or their equivalent on the Republican side will no doubt make the same argument as you have. If leaders on both sides have been so diligent, how can we explain and account for the disaster that the United States has suffered in the last sixteen maybe twenty years? As Senator Barack Obama put it recently, these problems are not new and have gone on for decades -- and I need not enumerate them here. Your argument essentially insists that the "fluff" and the irrelevant ought to be excised from the main in other to have a healthy and strong core even if the new core should become only representative of a partial element of the original. Is this argument not similar to what the leaders of both parties with few exceptions made in the old South when democracy was trampled upon with impunity? To make my comment short, I will remind you of one more example: The people of the United States in every era have always stood up to challenge the power structure as exemplified in their tenacious refusal for about ten years to ratify the original Constitution until the rights of the citizen were clearly and explicitly stated in the same manner as those of the ruling class. And, those citizens in the 1780s were far less educated than the millions who stand in long lines for hours in frigid weather to hear a candidate speak or who go knocking door to door to pitch their candidate's position. Those 1778 citizens understood what liberty stood for and citizens today, including the young and the old, regardless of party affiliation are in revolt because they understand that in spite of what the elders have told them their freedoms are in jeopardy. Secondly, your thesis is short-sighted. It ignores the reality of evolution: The large Democratic California of today, way once not Democratic and the swing state of Florida may transform to became a Republican stronghold or a Democratic stronghold. Third, and finally, what kind of politics is it (as you advocate) that invites its party to start with a 40 per cent playground?

Thank you.

Obama has won 15 primaries (as opposed to caucuses). FIFTEEN. He hasn't "gamed" the system. He has won primaries in Illinois, Virginia, Maryland, Wisconsin, Missouri and Georgia. All of these are among the 20 largest states in the country.

You should/could count Utah in there too. Our "caucus" amounts to showing up at the polling place, asking for either a D or R ballot, casting your vote, and leaving. It's exactly the same as a primary, really, except the parties are on two separate ballots.

Tim K. Decorum matters. It wouldn't be too hard to knock you off the page. Respect others, raise the level of discourse and make your opinions as strongly as you can. But don't be crude, please!

justinb,

Interesting point, but Utah is the 34th-largest state by population. I was trying to make a point about Obama winning primaries in "big states."

Assuming a re-vote in FL and MI, and assuming that states yet to vote go as expected, Clinton and Obama would each end up winning 10 of the 20 largest states. Clinton would win six of the biggest seven, but Obama would win nine of the 13 next-largest.

Clinton: CA, TX, NY, OH, PA, FL, NJ, MA, AZ, TN

Obama: IL, GA, MI, NC, VA, WA, IN, MO, MD, WI

Deborah:

That's simply inaccurate. There is nothing - absolutely nothing (just for emphasis) - in the Democratic rules that says the winner of pledged delegates becomes, or should become, the nominee. If that were the case there wouldn't be 800 superdelegates. Pledged delegates are awarded in such a convoluted way that there is no definite link between the will of most Democrats and the pledged delegate total.

John Paul... :

What exactly did I say you contend is lacking in "decorum"? I put up with more crude personal insults than anybody here.

Breaking News!!! Major Political Scandal!!!

Large numbers of Republicans have been voting for Barack Obama in the DEMOCRATIC primaries, and caucuses. Because they feel he would be a weaker opponent against John McCain. And because they feel that a Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama ticket would be unbeatable.

Hillary Clinton has actually won by much larger margins than the vote totals showed. And lost by much smaller vote margins than the vote totals showed. Her delegate count is actually much higher than it shows. And higher than Obama's. HILLARY CLINTON IS ALREADY THE TRUE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE!

As much as 30% of Obama's primary, and caucus votes are Republicans trying to choose the weakest democratic candidate for McCain to run against. These Republicans have been gaming the caucuses where it is easier to vote cheat. This is why Obama has not been able to win the BIG! states primaries. Even with Republican vote cheating help.

If Obama is the democratic nominee for the national election in November he will be slaughtered. Because the vote cheating help will suddenly evaporate. All of this vote fraud and republican manipulation has made Obama falsely look like a much stronger candidate than he really is.

The democratic party needs to fix this outrage. I suggest a Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama ticket now! All democrats need to throw all your support to Hillary Clinton. So you can end this outrage against YOU the voter, and against democracy.

Fortunately the Clinton's have been able to hold on against this fraudulent outrage with those repeated dramatic comebacks of Hillary Clinton's. Only the Clinton's are that resourceful, and strong. Hillary Clinton is your NOMINEE. They are the best I have ever seen.

You should be angry America. "This is not a game" (Hillary Clinton)

Sincerely

jacksmith...

What exactly did I say you contend is lacking in "decorum"?

Uh, that "dark berry/sweet juice" thing wasn't exactly decorous behavior now was it?

Tim K,

The problem is that any time a politician chooses to deceive people because it is politically expedient, it tends to create long-term consequences. And I strongly suspect that Clinton's choice to deceive the people of Iowa, NH, NV, and SC about her intentions with respect to MI and FL would come back to haunt her in the general election, if by some chance she got the nomination. Indeed, not only are those four potential swing states in their own right, but I strongly suspect McCain would use this episode as evidence that nothing Clinton was saying to voters during the general election could be trusted.

I don't care who they seem to have benefited this electon cycle, caucauses are a HORRID way to conduct a vote. In 2008 who the heck has time to go to an assigned place at an assigned time and sit for hours yelling over others? I am suprised this hasn't caught the media's attention before. Caucauses should be struck down before this mess happens again!

Interesting point, but Utah is the 34th-largest state by population. I was trying to make a point about Obama winning primaries in "big states."

I know, I was just saying that a lot of the claptrap about caucus states disenfranchising folks is baloney, at least in Utah. I'm not sure how everybody else does their "caucus", maybe Utah is the only one that's like that.

To Steve Grossman, not that it matters to you what voters think, but I'll address you anyway.

Here are a couple points to consider that mar your arguments, outside of the fact that you've already endorsed your candidate and seem to just be asking the remaining supers to come your way.

1) Doesn't it occur to you that the RECORD turnout of Democratic voters may translate into a record turnout for the general election even in typically red states which could possibly turn some things around? BTW, the candidate bringing in NEW voters isn't Clinton.

2) Obama hasn't only won more caucus states than Clinton, he's also won more primaries. Why is everyone so gung ho on discounting the people who support Obama? Also does it occur to you that this election is turning out record numbers of caucus goers, despite it being a very difficult thing to fit into your everyday life, because they feel that passionately about who is the right choice for them. I've found that often people find a way to make their voice heard, despite the odds against them, when it really matters.

3) As far as FL and MI go,let them be seated at convention, just divide up the delegates evenly and let that be a lesson in breaking the rules. They haven't been disenfranchised! You want to talk about disenfranchised--the entire Clinton campaign wants to minimize the importance of entire groups of people just because they don't vote for Hillary. The blacks don't count, the young voters don't count, the Independents and Republicans who are genuinely crossing over don't count (Not those in TX and OH who were responding to Limbaugh's gleeful plea), the affluent and educated voters don't count. As if all of those people aren't real!

3) What "BIG" states has Clinton won in a COMMANDING way that wouldn't go for whichever Democrat was the nominee? Are you honestly trying to suggest that CA and NY would turn RED? In other BIG states, Obama was able to close a 20 point gap in a few weeks despite Clinton's fearmongering and distortion in the final days running up to that election. Oh, and Obama actually won more delegates in TX so who really won??

4) Please consider the message you are sending out to the Democrats of the nation which is essentially thus:

"If you don't fall exactly into the groups that we count arbitrarily, then your votes and wishes don't really matter to us. If we need to sew up this nomination in virtually the same way that the 2000 Presidential election was won, then so be it. We as party "elders" shouldn't take a hard look at a movement that spiraled the supposedly "inevitable" candidate into losing 11 straight states and whether that means something new in our political landscape. We must stay with the old guard of entitlement and dirty politics regardless."

Having said that, if you want to tell me that my vote doesn't matter to you or the Democratic party, then by all means, I'll stay home in Nov. if that suits you better.

Tim K,

I usually am filled with hope after reading the comments on this page. Such a collection of smart people with this capacity to analyze cannot always be hoodwinked. That is why I read everything and always try to understand the perspective from which comments are made. Maybe you are used to insults but I am not and just don't wish to tolerate it. Decorum matters! Especially in public.

Gee, first the Clintons piss off states that are small, states that are medium-sized, and states that have lots of Republicans. Then they insult the ones that have too many black people in them. Now they send this guy out to win over all those superdelegates on the reasoning that their voters shouldn't count --- and that their states, if they held caucuses, shouldn't count either. Brilliant.

For the record:
I went to my first caucus this year. I live in MN, a traditional BLUE state. I typically vote Republican. Let me be clear: I voted for Obama and absolutely have a life where my children attend Ivy League colleges and we pay a hefty price for private education. I would never in a million years vote for Hilary Clinton. I would never in a million years want to be considered her prime demographic: Old, Uneducated and Blue Collar. Now I can't do much about the woman thing, but I can speak my voice and suggest that if the Super Delegates vote for a brokered nomination based NOT on the popular and winning vote, they will have lost millions of new votes this year. Votes that could affect their party for the next 20 years.

PS If Hilary ends up being the nominee, she will merely go up in flames in November, if not before. McCain is just enough a moderate to soak up any Obama Independent and Republican voters, like me.

And here's the thing, I am sick and tired of Clinton's mouthpieces and surrogates asserting that the American public is too stupid to know what's what in this contest. That might apply to their core demographic as described by the pundits who may get their news from sound bites and headlines in grocery store lines, but give us a break. The worst thing about the Clintons is their obscene arrogance and omnipotent belief in themselves at the expense of this entire country. Talk about risking our safety as a nation? This will do it.

And seriously, the respectability of Super Delegates? Can you spell Spitzer?

WE IN THE NATION'S CAPITAL DO NOT WANT THE CLINTONS BACK IN OFFICE. MORE LYING, STEALING AND CHEATING. I FEEL THAT THE LEAST EXPENSIVE WAY TO HANDLE MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA IS TO SPLIT THE VOTES TO BOTH CLINTON AND OBAMA WOULD BE FAIR TO ALL. IT WOULD INCLUDE THE VOTES, NOT COST MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND FAIR TO ALL CONCERNED. IT ALSO WOULD TEACH THE ONES WHO CAME UP WITH THE IDEA A VALUABLE LESSON. AND SUPERDELEGATES, PLEASE THINK OF WHO WON THE MOST DELEGATES, WHO IS TRYING TO HAVE A FAIR AND HONEST RACE. AND FOR THE RECORD, THE CLINTON'S LAUNDRY IS ALL OUT THERE FOR MCCAIN TO EAT FOR LUNCH. THEY FEAR OBAMA, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT KNOW HIM AT ALL. WE DEMOCRATS NEED RESPECT AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO GET IT WITH THE CLINTONS IN THE RACE AGAINST MCCAIN. A LOT OF PEOPLE (THE ONES THAT VOTED FOR OBAMA) WILL EITHER NOT VOTE OR VOTE FOR MCCAIN. IF YOU LOOK AT WHO GOT THE MOST VOTES, THEN LOOK AT HOW MANY PEOPLE THAT COULD POSSIBLY NOT VOTE OR VOTE FOR MCCAIN, WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO GO WITH THE MOST POPULAR VOTES TO HAVE A CHANCE TO WIN. THERE ARE REPLICANS THAT HAVE STATED THAT THEY WANT HILLARY TO WIN. HENCE, THE REASON SHE WON OHIO AND TEXAS. PLEASE THINK ABOUT THE OVERALL OUTCOME BEFORE GOING WITH THE CLINTONS, THEY WILL KILL US.

WE IN THE NATION'S CAPITAL DO NOT WANT THE CLINTONS BACK IN OFFICE. MORE LYING, STEALING AND CHEATING. I FEEL THAT THE LEAST EXPENSIVE WAY TO HANDLE MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA IS TO SPLIT THE VOTES TO BOTH CLINTON AND OBAMA WOULD BE FAIR TO ALL. IT WOULD INCLUDE THE VOTES, NOT COST MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND FAIR TO ALL CONCERNED. IT ALSO WOULD TEACH THE ONES WHO CAME UP WITH THE IDEA A VALUABLE LESSON. AND SUPERDELEGATES, PLEASE THINK OF WHO WON THE MOST DELEGATES, WHO IS TRYING TO HAVE A FAIR AND HONEST RACE. AND FOR THE RECORD, THE CLINTON'S LAUNDRY IS ALL OUT THERE FOR MCCAIN TO EAT FOR LUNCH. THEY FEAR OBAMA, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT KNOW HIM AT ALL. WE DEMOCRATS NEED RESPECT AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO GET IT WITH THE CLINTONS IN THE RACE AGAINST MCCAIN. A LOT OF PEOPLE (THE ONES THAT VOTED FOR OBAMA) WILL EITHER NOT VOTE OR VOTE FOR MCCAIN. IF YOU LOOK AT WHO GOT THE MOST VOTES, THEN LOOK AT HOW MANY PEOPLE THAT COULD POSSIBLY NOT VOTE OR VOTE FOR MCCAIN, WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO GO WITH THE MOST POPULAR VOTES TO HAVE A CHANCE TO WIN. THERE ARE REPLICANS THAT HAVE STATED THAT THEY WANT HILLARY TO WIN. HENCE, THE REASON SHE WON OHIO AND TEXAS. PLEASE THINK ABOUT THE OVERALL OUTCOME BEFORE GOING WITH THE CLINTONS, THEY WILL KILL US.


There's the world as it is; then there's HILLARY'S WORLD. There are Democratic primary rules for selecting a presidential candidate; then there are HILLARY'S RULES. There's the United States (which includes "red", "blue" & "purple"; large, medium & small; primary & caucus); then there's HILLARY'S STATES, which apparently consist only of those she deems are important (usually those whose primary she's won); those that lean Democratic in ANY election (NY,Cal,Mass); or those that will be tough for ANY Democrat to win in a general, even if they WIN the primary (Texas,Fla,Oh,Pa). Yes, there are rules of fair play; then there are CLINTON RULES: say and do WHATEVER IT TAKES FOR HILLARY TO WIN.

There's the world as it is; then there's HILLARY'S WORLD.
*****************************************

There's the world as it is; then there's Obama's world. Imagine if our world becomes a world run by people that think black racists like Louis Farrakhan earned respect and deserved to get their Man of the Year award? Imagine what our would will become if we elect a man that claims he will unite the world, while at the same time has attended a black separatist (United Trinity Church of Christ) church for the past 20 years. I just can not understand how people can believe him when he says he will be a uniter and then practices black "separatism" every Sunday for the past 20 years? Sounds a bit "Helter Skelter", Charles Manson(ish) to me.

I would like to see OB explain how practicing black separatism for 20 years and uniting the country equates to the same thing.

Agree with Molly. I’m a fairly staunch republican; 12 months ago I wouldn’t have dreamed of going Democrat in a million years. If this was any other time I would getting behind McCain, but Obama really is a once in a generation candidate, and one that people like me would be prepared to go against the grain for. It’s a bit much to put “world peace and everything” at Obama’s door, but the truth is the planet is pretty messed up right now and if any candidate can bring a fresh perspective its Obama. Clinton would not bring anything; McCain may bring a one or two small victories in Israel (typically the best we could hope for) but Obama might, just might, be able to make a genuine difference on the world stage. I really feel that the Democratic Party is standing at a point where it can make a big decision; it would be a real shame if it shies away from it. It’s a bigger leap for me than it is for democrats that’s for sure.

Right now Obama is a clear front runner for me but the idea of the Clintons back in the Whitehouse repulses me. Jacksmith’s rant is just the typical rabid Clintonesque noise that just turns folk like me away from her.

"Should primaries in which voters who are not in fact members of the Democratic party voted in significant numbers be given the same standing for the purpose of choosing the Democratic party nominee as those in which only Democrats voted?"

Well, no, obviously. They should count more. Aren't we trying to win a general election?

Here's the real hypocrisy with Clinton and Grossman:

1. Why was it ok for Clinton to line up as many undecided superdelegates as possible back in 2007 before even a single vote was cast, but now that she is behind, the remaining undecided superdelegates suddenly should stay neutral until after all votes are cast?

2. Why was it ok for Grossman to decide way back when that he wanted to support Clinton, but now that she is behind, he has a right to urge his fellow undecided colleagues to stay neutral until all the votes are cast?

Sounds like just another effort to change the rules as you go...