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Hagee, Wright, Parsley, Fallwell, Obama and McCain

14 Mar 2008 01:30 pm

I've never gone ga-ga for guilt-by-association assassinations, but it seems to be that if one campaign is willing to make an issue out of one's associations, they should be open to questions about their own.

And, in truth, some associations are more meaningful than others. Barack Obama's close friendship with, his intellectual debt to, and the spiritual advice he's gotten from Rev. Jeremiah Wright almost pre-books that 60 Minutes interview you know he'll do in the fall explaining it.

But John McCain needs be careful.

As J-Mart notes this morning, McCain's campaign included Ron Kessler's WSJ op-ed in its clips, which implies that they believe reporters should make a note of it. But as his colleague B-Smith later noted, that conflicts with what McCain strategist Charlie Black (C-Black?) told Joe Scarborough on MSNBC this morning -- namely, that "I don't think Senator McCain wants to get in the middle of a discussion about Senator Obama's former pastor or his faith."

More, from Black:

"He believes that people who endorse you, people who befriend you are entitled to their own views, but you are not held personally accountable."

Well, now McCain is part of that discussion. And it's a dangerous place for him to be, what with Rev. John Hagee's anti-gay remarks (curiously unremarked upon by anyone in the McCain campaign -- is the McCain campaign afraid to repudiate anti-gay remarks?), his anti-Catholic remarks (once condemned by McCain, but now McCain wants to give Hagee the benefit of the doubt)?, his millennialism (which means, as some honest McCain adviser must have explained to the candidate by now, the death of millions of innocent Muslims)... also: Jerry Falwell, and his casual association of 9/11 with the sins of homosexuality, and Rod Parsley, a man who McCain has called a "spiritual guide," a man who has also called Islam a "false religion" and has advocated war against it and various other bad things.

Why are these folks entitled to these opinions and Wright isn't entitled to his?

The McCain campaign is quick to respond to the slightest whiff of tarnish to McCain's image as a reformer. They don't seem to know what to do about his new friends and some of their more colorful comments.

Pull back the curtains a bit.

Everytime I write about McCain and lobbying, I hear from senior McCain officials within a microsecond of saving my post.

Everytime i write about McCain and these subjects, the radio is silent.

Comments (79)

Cute editorial, Marc. It's good to know that Barack Obama can always count on you to spin for him. I'm sure his staff is grateful for your assistance.

Marc,

Your posts on this subject have been extraordinarily judicious. Thanks for the good work.

"Why are these folks entitled to these opinions and Wright isn't entitled to his?"

Please point out exactly who said wright isn't entitled to his opinion. ambinder knows that’s not what this is about. He thinks you are a rube.

ambinder is also signaling the fawning “liberal media” are not gonna hold obama accountable for his extremely poor judgement regarding who he decided to associate himself with for over 20 years. The fawning “liberal media” will not question obama’s judgement regarding obama’s rather large monetary support of someone like wright. At least not now. Should we be unlucky enough to have obama as the dem nom I’m betting the “liberal media” will remember wright all over again.

Marc, you wrote a good and unbiased article. As for Bobby, try differentiating a spin from the truth. If guilty by association is the norm, then McCain is quilty also for associating with those bigots. Stop being a hypocrite

As you rightly point out, Marc, some associations are more meaningful than others. Being endorsed by a bigot is far different than actively choosing to sit and listen to one every Sunday, or talking time and time again about how heavily they influenced. Praying with a bigot about the most momentous decisions of your life is worlds removed from accepting some modicum of support from one, too.

Neither is good, but the two are staggeringly different in terms of degree.

Can someone please present some evidence that Wright is a "bigot"?

It is mind boggling to me that McCain would even think of heading down this road of personal identity politics. If he is willing to stick his neck out and condemn Obama for his association with this Pastor who has some crazy beliefs to just get more votes from the crazier far right, he is surely going to lose this election.

Obama is his own person and he will make a point of that when it comes time for the general election. Who is McCain? A guy who needs to pal around with Hagee and Robertson to secure his base. Do that and he completely cedes the middle ground to Obama. Good luck, McCain. Perhaps Obama will give you a job as SecDef.

Hey Punditish -

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't our current President invite over to the White House on a regular basis the likes of James Dobson, Pat Robertson and, before his death, Jerry Falwell to pray with him? Are they not all bigots as well? Do you now see a problem with your answer?

"Why are these folks entitled to these opinions and Wright isn't entitled to his?"

???? Who said the reverend wasn’t entitled to his opinions? Why base your post partly on a strawman? Have you been taking lessons from Sullivan? WTF?

I second what Punditish writes above ... And ask you to consider:

1) Does McCain bring his children or family to Hagee’s crap?

2) Did McCain continue to attend sermons by Hagee after Hagee said America was to blame for 9/11?

3) Did McCain donate $25,000 to Hagee’s church?

4) Is Hagee McCain’s spiritual/part-time political advisor?

No? Well your comparison is absolute crap then. Nice try, though. Middle America is quite a bit smarter than that …

And how did Bush and Falwell get dragged into this? "Here's a shiny quarter - look over there!"

Obfuscate all you want guys; ain't gonna work. Implying that McCain is wading into this crap by making a reference to a Wall St Journal opinion piece is a reach. If you'll read the piece you will see that it contains nothing objectionable or unfair; it's perfectly reasonable.

When directly asked about this matter - see the Hannity interview last night - McCain himself not only declined to join the attacks, but he personally vouched for Obama, saying that he, McCain, knews Senator Obama and knew he didn't share Wright's views. McCain himself brought up Hagee and pointed out that just because someone supporter him that didn't mean he shared all of that person's positions.

No one's claiming that Obama is a vitriolic America-damning racist who believes that the government created the HIV virus. Anyone who denies that Obama's intimate association with such a man raises questions about his judgment, and is politically problematic, is spinning.

Hagee and Parsley may be problematic for McCain - though overall Parsley at least appears to me a lot closer to the American mainstream than has been portrayed here. But if they're even relevant to McCain at all - something many of McCain's critics on the left have been claiming for a while now - then Wright is a lot more problematic for Obama.

Well, as we've seen, Obama has repeatedly said he disagrees with Wright on numerous issues, but, no, that's not enough...he must fully cast aside this man, who has had an important role in his life, so that "middle america" doesn't feel like Obama is a crypto-racist black Christian nationalis/stealth Muslim.

Ok, got it.

But it's perfectly ok for McCain, who once cast people like Hagee and Parsley as "agents of intolerance" to go groveling for their support, with the full knowledge of the extreme views these men hold on Muslims, Jews, the end times and Catholics, among other things

Ok, got it.

Just read Daniel Larison at the American Conservative on this:
Hagee and Wright

Mike P hits it right on the head. McCain's flip flop as to his now "appreciation" and "thanks" for the support from Hagee and Parsley while previously condemning these men is very telling indeed.

Giving up your morals to pander for votes is much worse than anything Obama is being accused of here. In fact, I am at a loss to even figure out what the accusation is exactly. Obama has done nothing here except allow Wright to have his own personal, private beliefs while clearly demonstrating and stating beliefs of his own which are complete polar opposites. Don't we all do that with people we know and care about on a daily basis? Try reading Audacity of Hope and see for yourself.

PS - Bringing up Bush and Falwell is completely relevant if you want to go down this path with Obama.

"fawning liberal media"?? Matthews was a bit more candid than usual when he noted that the MSM are St. John the Apostate's most fawning constituency of all. Please--spare us the liberal media line when it comes to McCain.

Well, I would say that since we are now hearing from the detached right that they feel Obama is in cahoots with some crazy far left Christian church that we can at least expect them to stop spewing that ridiculous rumor that he is a Muslim. Right?

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That being said, McCain screwed himself over trying to earn these worthless endorsements from the far, far rightwing TBN types.

I've never gone ga-ga for guilt-by-association

GBA means something quite different from the way Ambinder seems to understand it. GBA refers to things like, "BadPerson likes something, and you like the same thing, therefore you're as bad as BadPerson".

In the current case, we're talking about people who've decided to work together, which is a completely different issue.

Thanks, Marc. I was befuddled during Scarborough's rant about Wright this morning as he said, "If John McCain had anything like this out there..." and I kept thinking FALWELL HAGEE FALWELL HAGEE. Will anyone else in the unbiased press pick this up, or will they not want to miss the next AZ BBQ?

Marc, however you choose to describe their relationship, I don't think it's fair to say that Obama has an intellectual debt to Jeremiah Wright.

Go listen to Wright's Audacity to Hope sermon. Ben Smith linked to it on his Politico blog. Obama may have adapted the title for his book, but Obama's content is very different. Obama certainly has his own ideas and his intellectual development appears to have been complete by the time he started attending Trinity Church.

Note to right-wing commenters: claiming that the "MSM" has it in for McCain is totally round-the-bend ridiculous. If they had it in for McCain, Hagee and Parsley would be on their way to becoming household names by now, like Fox News will try to do with Wright and Obama, and McCain would be a regular punchline for his 180 turnaround on the "agents of intolerance" on the right.

"Why are these folks entitled to these opinions and Wright isn't entitled to his?"

Wright is. But Obama, given that he did not find these opinions objectionable for 20 years should not be president.

And, the truth is that many people agree with Parsley and Hagee, or at least don't find their positions objectionable as they are grounded in faith. Wright's opinions are not grounded in faith, but simply anti-Americanism and racism. You must admit that Wright's words are objectionable to many more people than Hagee & Parsley's are. You may think that should not be the case -- that people should find both objectionable or neither -- but that is not the reality the would confront Obama at the polls in the general election.

Barack Obama has made a lifetime commitment to working with people who have different views about life to achieve common goals and to make this country a better place to live.

Associating with someone like Wright does not mean one has to be guilty of anything, except of course trying to bridge differences.

TPM

The Irrelevance of Obama's Minister
By M.J. Rosenberg - March 14, 2008, 8:44AM
Here's a surprise. Just as the superdelegates are breaking for Obama, we suddenly are seeing videos of his minister, Jeremiah Wright, saying all kinds of ugly things.

So the same people who are telling us that Obama is a Muslim and controlled by Islamic law are saying that he's a serious Protestant, controlled by his minister. Come on kids, decide on a story line.

Funny we have never heard about any previous candidate's minister. Billy Graham was spiritual adviser to Ike, Nixon, Johnson, the Bushes and Clinton but nobody pointed out that he was an anti-semite (although his anti-semitism is well documented in the Nixon tapes). And rightly so.

But with Obama, for some reason, it's different.

What a crock.

I've been a member of a conservative Jewish congregation for 25 years. I love the rabbi but not his sermons on Israel and the Palestinians. He is a total Israel hawk. To put it mildly, I am not. I am all about the two-state solution (the so-called Clinton plan).

Even worse, the congregation has become the favorite of Washington's neocons including the worst warmonger of all: Douglas Feith. The idea of communing with God together with a thug like Feith is sickening to me. Then there is Charles Krauthammer who, in 2001, disrupted Yom Kippur services by bellowing at the rabbi for expressing, in the most general terms, the desire for Middle East peace. The worst moment I've ever had at my congregation was when a visiting rabbi from Europe (he comes every year for the High Holy Days) devoted an entire sermon to the value of hate. "To everything there is a season. This is a season for hate." He was talking about the Palestinians. I almost puked.

And yet I am a member of this congregation and will remain one. Why? As I said, I like the rabbi (the regular one, not the annual visitor) despite disagreeing strongly with many of his views. More important, this is the congregation that my kids grew up in. This is where their Bar Mitzvahs took place. The people there (not the war criminals though) are kind of like family. It's home. Probably how Obama feels about his church.

The bottom line is that I am not discredited as a strong supporter of a Palestinian state and the end of the occupation because my rabbi has a different view. Pro-peace Israelis, Palestinians, and other Arabs do not refuse to work with me because I go to the "neocon" synagogue. My writings on Israel/Palestine are not disregarded because my rabbi is a Likud guy.

Of course, not. My rabbi's views are his views. He is my spiritual adviser not my political adviser.

In 2000, when Joe Lieberman ran, do you recall articles about the political views of his rabbi? I don't know who his rabbi is (that tells you something) but Orthodox rabbis are invariably very conservative on the same issues on which Democrats are very liberal. They also tend to feel strongly that Jews and non-Jews should not marry each other or even date each other. Some Orthodox rabbis will tell you that dietary laws prevent Jews and non-Jews from even having a meal together except in a kosher locale.

So what. That's religion. Lieberman's politics (not his moderately liberal politics then or his conservative politics now) has nothing to do with his rabbi. Lieberman is pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-feminist, all the things Orthodox rabbis tend not to be. There is a good chance Joe's rabbi is against the Iraq war (75% of Jews are) but Joe sure isn't. But, as I said, Joe's rabbi, whoever he is, was never an issue. Obama's is. Why is that?

The last time a candidate's religion was an issue was Kennedy's Catholicism in 1960. Kennedy's priest, Joseph Cardinal Cushing, was a pretty old school Catholic with all the old school Catholic political views.
Did that discredit Kennedy as a candidate?

Sadly, it did with alot of people. Bigots across the land cited his church as a reason not to vote for him, cited Cushing and the Pope as scary political influences on a JFK Presidency, howled about what Kennedy's faith indicated about the kind of leader he would be.

But that was 48 years ago and, today, we call the people who used Kennedy's religion against him ignorant bigots. Now we call them political strategists

When McCain's own pastor of 20 years equates the U.S. policy of constructive engagement in South Africa to the 9/11 terrorist attacks, then you've got an argument.

When the man who baptized McCain's children accuses the government of supplying drugs to urban black youth in an elaborate KKK-backed conspiracy to imprison black people, then you've got an argument.

When McCain's personal mentor, from whom he took the title of his book, displays a complete 180-degree difference from McCain when it comes to race relations, then you've got an argument.

Until then, McCain has supporters, and Obama has a spiritual mentor. There is a world of difference between the two.

"Being endorsed by a bigot is far different than actively choosing to sit and listen to one every Sunday, or talking time and time again about how heavily they influenced."

You saw a couple clips out of 20 years. You have absolutely no idea what the man is really like or what his sermons are about every Sunday, so why act all self-righteous and pretend you do?

"Being endorsed by a bigot is far different than actively choosing to sit and listen to one every Sunday, or talking time and time again about how heavily they influenced."

You saw a couple clips out of 20 years. You have absolutely no idea what the man is really like or what his sermons are about every Sunday, so why act all self-righteous and pretend you do?

Bye-bye, B.O.

I heard Wright last night on wing-nut radio. B.O. may get the nom, but he's not gonna get his ox outta this ditch. Much as I like the idea of him and his turn-the-page message, I won't miss his doofus economics. At least McCain seems harmless in this regard.

Alison's point is an excellent one. A pastor is nothing other than a spiritual advisor. Politics is not discussed in my church and I imagine that is the way it is in most churches, except those crazy far right people down south who think that politics and church go hand in hand.

If Obama wants to attend this church and let this man be his spiritual advisor that is his right, his personal right. He has already demonstrated time and time again that he does not agree with Wright on these issues. What more do you want him to do? Perhaps it would be nice to hear McCain say he does not agree with Hagee on his ridiculous views of the Catholic church or his bigotry of homosexuals? Would he be willing to do that? Until then, you've got no argument.

It's a good post, but you are putting way too much intellectual effort into the various obvious answer. McCain benefits regardless or not he states that Obama should not be tarred with Wright's words. Why? Because the voters are the ones who matter, and a large number of voters (not guessing %s here, but I am sure that somewhere in th USA, there may be a racist here or there) apply a different standard for Robertson/Falwell and Wright. Why a different standard? Oh, I don't know... I wonder what is the difference between those men? Perhaps the differing standards applied to Wright is because he is an angry..............
BLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK man? Robertson and Falwell can say hateful things about the USA to explain 9/11...the statements are either dismissed because more rationale Repubs know there is no connection between the "gay lifestyle agenda" in the USA and 9/11, but for the less rationale Repubs, dissing gays is never a wrong thing to do. Robertson/Falwell can later go on TV and sob their apologies, all the while the phone number to donate more money to their "ministries" runs unabated at the bottom of the screen. But, a black man, raised during the trials and tribulations of the 50s and 60s, embittered by years of painful prejudice, and now unable to give up his anger or see the world through any other lens while sermonizing, venting his anger against white people and the good ol' USA....well, that is an entirely different thing. Black men angry with white people? Unnerving...we need assurances that Obama will not benefit African-Americans over white people. Obama must denounce and, of course, as we all know by now, that denouncing is not complete without a rejection, reject....immediately. But a black man denouncing the USA because of white people (ok, technically, he referred to US policies..but white people ran the gov't and made the policies, but that takes too long for most people...lets just shorten that to "white people"), as opposed to white GAY people....unforgiveable.

[ASAP - Someone call Taylor Marsh and Larry Johnson. They need to post about this issue...umm, again. The tough people at their blogs need another flaming feather stuck into their butts so that they can run around faster in their panic.] After all, an angry black man at the altar is OBVIOUSLY (isn't it obvious) a sign that Obama shows poor judgment. Imagine the nerve of listening to an elder minister scarred and angered by the past.

That is how a lot of people think about this issue. I wish more people were rationale like Mr. Ambinder, and I guess PA will give evidence of how much his view is shared.

At least Obama stands for something. Is there a policy position on which McCain HASN'T flip-flopped? Since this thread is about religion, let's use that as an example. He was a Catholic before he was a Baptist? Does Sydney McCain stand for anything?

Didn't McCain leave the catholic faith after hearing a sermon by John Hagee linking Hitler with the Catholics in a plot to exterminate the Jews? Geesh that would sure make me want to leave the Catholic Church.

I thought most people who were paying attention understood what the term BLOWBACK ment?Really isnt that what Obamas preacher is implying?And isnt it a commonly held concept among intel officers and if so why the fuss?

Wait, does this mean Obama is not a muslim? I got this email that said he was. Did you all get that too? Good Lord...what should I believe? I mean, I heard Glen Beck say he wasn't sure if Obama was a muslim and I heard Hillary Clinton say "as far as she knew" he wasn't but there was something in her answer to lead me to believe he may be. Oh my! What do I do?

National review's Media Blog (http://media.nationalreview.com/):

"Despite the canceled invocation, Mr. Wright prayed with the Obama family just before his presidential announcement. Asked later about the incident, the Obama campaign said in a statement, “Senator Obama is proud of his pastor and his church.”

What are you still posting on here for, sbj?? I thought limited internet access was part of the plea agreement you copped to!

Brillant Tactical ploy by the Obama campaign. He addresses the issue head on at it's source. He will say 'my church' again and again. Result will be no one will be able to accuse Obama of being a Msulim. You gotta hand it to the Obama team.

There's a big diference: Hagee is not McCain's pastor. Wright is Obama's.

Looks like the Republicans have decided to push full bore for this Wright stuff. All you trolling on the blogs, you know you're probably not going to be getting paid, right? I hear they're having money problems up at the RNC.

This is a response to AS.

I believe McCain has actively sought the endorsement of Hagee. The one who called Catholics as belonging to a whore church.

KathyL: Do you believe or do you actually have any prove? I really don't care a bit about your "believes".

More: eight years ago McCain denounced Falwell and the likes as "agents of intolerance" - a stronger statement than Obama as made about Wright.

Well, that thing about McCain and the Christian Right is all well and good, but it’s not applicable here. The concern here is that Obama–who attended Rev. Wright’s church, was married by him, had his kids baptized by him, and held him up as a mentor–might embrace, or at least fail to recognize the toxicity of, Wright’s views.

On the other hand, McCain was NEVER close to the christian right - they were fiercy opponents of him during the primaries.

So, Marc, if you can't see the difference, you are becoming utterly biased.

Rod Parsley is McCain's spiritual advisor and he has recently endorsed him. Parsley has made racist comments. McCain says he doesn't agree with all of his views. Well, that should also apply to Obama and Wright.

Let's concentrate on the important issues and stop allowing race to be injected.

At least Wright isn't asking for a term paper about why he's right – attended college recently? Hillary Clinton has had books written about her spiritual life, but she doesn't even go to church. Wise up; it's the Clintons, both of them, who are kryptonite: http://theseedsof9-11.com

Tom - **And, the truth is that many people agree with Parsley and Hagee, or at least don't find their positions objectionable as they are grounded in faith.**

Well, when I was a boy, many people, perhaps a majority of white people, agreed with Bull Connor, George Wallace and Lester Maddox,too. In many churches they prayed for segregation to be sustained. That didn't make their positions any less objectionable.

Alison - Wonderful post, thank you. But Cardinal Cushing's first name was Richard, not Joseph. I heard him speak several times at the reform synagogue I occasionally attended. He was an early father (pun intended) of ecuminicism (sp? ) and a wonderful man.

A very, very interesting summary from an Obama supporter. He/she sounds truly shaken. Here's the link if you wanna sound-off:

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/obamas-judgment-wright-or-wron.php

Barack Obama has already denounced those words. It is un-christian to expect him to denounce the man. Paul taught us to hate the sin but love the sinner. On another note, think about it. Jesus was controversial! Jesus unsettled the people of his day with his words. He came to set hearts on fire. His message drove the authorities and the religious leaders crazy. Not to justify JR's words, but certain black people actually saw slavery with their eyes and they do feel justified in their anger. Remember Barack never saw slavery. He is the son of a Kenyan black man and a white Kansas woman. Let us not lump him in with Jeremiah Wright.

How refreshing - a cerebral, thoughtful blog! Thank you!

To compare Jesus Christ to Jeremiah Wright is rediculous. Jesus never mentioned color in any of his preachings.

This guy Jeremiah Wright preached bigotry and hatred of White people and Jews and anyone who didn't agree with his politics and Barack ate it up for 20 years.


Barack says he's like the crazy uncle, well why is he such an important advisor to him. Last time I checked you can choose your pastor you can't choose your uncle.

The chickens have come home to roost and now we find out he got another $100,000 from Rezko, some change.

To compare Jesus Christ to Jeremiah Wright is rediculous. Jesus never mentioned color in any of his preachings.

This guy Jeremiah Wright preached bigotry and hatred of White people and Jews and anyone who didn't agree with his politics and Barack ate it up for 20 years.


Barack says he's like the crazy uncle, well why is he such an important advisor to him. Last time I checked you can choose your pastor you can't choose your uncle.

The chickens have come home to roost and now we find out he got another $100,000 from Rezko, some change.

To compare Jesus Christ to Jeremiah Wright is rediculous. Jesus never mentioned color in any of his preachings.

This guy Jeremiah Wright preached bigotry and hatred of White people and Jews and anyone who didn't agree with his politics and Barack ate it up for 20 years.


Barack says he's like the crazy uncle, well why is he such an important advisor to him. Last time I checked you can choose your pastor you can't choose your uncle.

The chickens have come home to roost and now we find out he got another $100,000 from Rezko, some change.

Obama has had 20 years to repudiate Rev. Wright’s hatred and has only just now spoken up. It is impossible to believe that Obama only just now realized the hate that Wright preaches and we can only assume that Obama has agreed with Wright all this time and is only distancing himself from Wright now as a political expediency.

And if the recent comments about her hatred of America by Obama’s wife Michelle is any indication, the entire Obama family holds the very same racist, anti-American thoughts as Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr.

http://www.bloggernews.net/114489

I was directed here looking for some perspective. Had hoped you'd provide some reasons why I shouldn't find Wright's comments troubling. Instead we get: "McCain is just as bad as Obama".

Disappointing read.

"Hey Punditish -

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't our current President invite over to the White House on a regular basis the likes of James Dobson, Pat Robertson and, before his death, Jerry Falwell to pray with him? Are they not all bigots as well? Do you now see a problem with your answer?"

Uh, no, because the topic is McCain, not Bush. I didn't say there was a world of difference between Bush and Obama on the matter, so I'm not sure what point you think you're making.

All that said, even if Bush WERE the topic, and while I don't particularly care for the Falwells of the world praying with Bush, it is *STILL* not as serious as listening to their sermons for decades, or referring to them as "mentors."

That's what no one seems able to acknowledge: there are varying levels of association. You can't blunt the criticism around Wright by pointing to Hagee, because McCain isn't a fraction as close to Hagee as Obama is to Wright, based on his statements and actions on the matter

First, when did ABC News become the **right wing media**??? They are the ones who pushed the Wright story. And I sure as hell wouldn't call Rolling Stone right wing and they are the ones who peddeled this story last year. Methinks you need look no further than a certain female Senator from New York for the reason this story is moving.

What this story implies isn't that Obama is a USA hater. What it does is show that he lacks good judgement in choosing his *mentor's* and spiritual guides. You don't stay a member of a church with a Pastor that is preaching hate for 20 years, allow him to baptize your children , marry you and your newly proud wife and then put him on your campaigns religious guidence committie, and donate 7 figures to him on a yearly basis for the last 6 years. Instead, you stand up and walk out and find a good church with a Pastor that actually preaches tolerance and love and become a member there.

As far as McCain using this in the General....are you deaf as well as dumb? I saw the video of McCain being asked by a major media reporter Friday about Obama's Rev. Wright and McCain was quite clear in his answer. **I know Senator Obama and thats not him**. **Sometimes people support us who agree with positions we have, but that dosen't mean we agree with their positions or are we responsible for statements they make.**

Now, what part of that answer can't you understand Ambinder?

Beware of false teachers, no LOVE=NO GOD

hello world------- GOD is LOVE you find him in the LOVE he put within your heart, use it.....Put down all your weapons of war on GOD/LOVE church, self hate, the bible, ect ect,,,,, choose LOVE GOD did, John 3:16 For GOD so LOVED the world,,,, hey world! GOD has LOVE for us,,,,,

It's very troublesome to see both Obama and McCain have associations with these snake-oil salesmen/clergymen.

I find it very hard to believe that the video of Wright's fiery sermon was a total anomaly and it calls into question why Obama stayed with his church and I question his judgement.

It's equally troubling that McCain would accept the support of Hagee with his heinous, bigoted, homophobic views. It's deplorable that McCain courted the support of Falwell and Robertson who are in McCain's own words in 2000 ''agents of intolerance." Jerry Falwell did nothing between the period of 2000 til his death to dispel that, and Robertson certainly hasn't either. I find it completely duplicitious of John McCain to still ride around in a bus called The Straight Talk Express when he equivocates on this issue. It calls his integrity entirely into question and I lose all respect for the man because of it. I can barely listen to the rest of his views because of his willingness to say and do anything to get elected.

It is very depressing to have to choose between politicians with questionable ethics like this. Obama should quit his church now. McCain should apologize for his sycophantic behavior towards the wingnut Christianist base of the Republican Party and tell the American people that he doesn't care about their support. Their influence on national policy has been absolutely ruinous.

Let's have some honesty for a change !!! Both of you !!!!

Anyone familiar with Louis "Hilter was a very great man" Farrakhan need go no further than watching the video at the link below to get what is wrong with the "Rev. Wright wasn't on fire when I sat down on him 23 years" ago bull Obama is now furiously shoveling to prevent not Rev. Wright but Obama's own poor judgment from burying his campaign.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXS_YrYp07Q&feature=related

Wright was closely affiliated with Farrakhan BEFORE Obama met him; and, according to OBAMA HIMSELF was warned BY WRIGHT HIMSELF from the beginning.

"In his 1993 memoir 'Dreams from My Father', Obama recounts in vivid detail his first meeting with Wright in 1985. The pastor warned the community activist that getting involved with Trinity might turn off other black clergy because of the church's radical reputation." - Chicago Tribune, Jan. 21, 2007.

Obama seemed to have forgotten that when he told a crowd "earlier this month...'I don't think my church is actually particularly controversial'. He said Rev. Wright 'is like an old uncle who says things I don't always agree with', telling a Jewish group that everyone has someone like that in their family." - ABC News

Such AMAZING loyalty Obama now displays! The man he has repeatedly identified as his inspiration, the one who married him, baptized his children, and gave him the title of his best-selling book, “The Audacity of Hope,” he now reduces to crazy old Uncle Fester.

Obama keeps forgetting Wright's warning as he keeps insisting as he did this weekend and expects us to believe that OVER TWENTY-THREE YEARS he NEVER "personally heard him preach [such things] while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation." We are to believe that religion-obsessed Obama who recently said, "I praise Jesus every Sunday," and his family never went to church after 9/11 where he would have heard Wright's disgusting comment sermon in which he screeched:

"...the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost."

We're expected to believe that, at least, SOMEONE he knew didn't TELL him then about it? And that was SEVEN YEARS ago; seven years before Obama denounced Wright's blaming America for 9/11.

Obama MUST have heard about the time Wright told his parishioners that "we should sing, "God Damn America." And HOW is that a part of "the gospel of Jesus" that Obama says he got from Wright?

And, contrary to what Obama claims now about why he didn't disassociate himself earlier, remove Wright from his campaign—that Wright was on the verge of retirement last January when Obama's official campaign was just starting and he disinvited him from his announcement love-in [unlike homohating Rev. Donnie McClurkin whom Obama still used to attract homophobic South Carolina voters]—ABC News says Wright only announced his retirement last month.

But if Obama didn't feel the need to formally distance himself from Wright after 9/11 or "God Damn America" or 15 months ago—how about FOUR MONTHS AGO when Louis "the white man is our mortal enemy" Farrakahn received the "Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. Lifetime Achievement Trumpeteer” Award and Wright said of him,

“Minister Farrakhan will be remembered as one of the 20th and 21st century giants of the African American religious experience. His integrity and honesty have secured him a place in history as one of the nation’s most powerful critics." Again, see video above.

There IS unfairness to guilt by association [such as that constantly smeared against Sen. Clinton], but to willingly continue that association for 23 years, to continue to praise Rev. Wright even as Wright grew more and more extreme....even after Wright called 3000 terrorist murders the result of American "chickens come home to roost"....even after Wright canonized Louis Farrakhan this past November.... UNTIL the world finally saw and heard some of Wright's outrages and THEN claim you only just found out about it all yourself reveals a chasm of credibility and a depth of poor judgment in Obama that no one asking us to make him President of the United States should possess.

Obama has totally lost all credibility with his 'denial' of knowledge of Wright's rants. It is totally absurd that this sophisticated, accomplished, and intelligent man could have a close association with Wright and his parishioners for two decades and not know of his hateful and racist sermons. It is like Peter denying Christ three times before the rooster crowed.

When I see him on t.v., I have only contempt where there was once admiration. He is such a disappointment.

There is double standard for democrats when it comes to "patriotism."

Nobody noticed "Why Should God Bless America?" being sung at the Republican Debate.
http://theartofilliterates.blogspot.com/2008/03/why-should-god-bless-america.html

For those who are so certain that Obama does not share any of Pastor Wright's "us vs them" beliefs, I would like to draw attention to a bill sponsored by Senator Obama (see the Library of Congress Database "Thomas"):
S.1790
Title: A bill to make grants to carry out activities to prevent the incidence of unintended pregnancies and sexually transmitted infections among teens in racial or ethnic minority or immigrant communities, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 7/16/2007)
Please note the bill does not include any activities to prevent unintended pregnancies or std's in white teens! I cannot imagine the outrage if another lawmaker were to introduce a bill intended to specifically benefit just white teenagers. I would like to hear Senator Obama's explanation for what seems to me a very racist bill.

I find it difficult to believe Senator Obama does not share some of Pastor Wright's "us vs them" beliefs when he introduces bills like the following: S.1790
Title: A bill to make grants to carry out activities to prevent the incidence of unintended pregnancies and sexually transmitted infections among teens in racial or ethnic minority or immigrant communities, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 7/16/2007) (from the Library of Congress website "Thomas"). Please note, white teens are not covered unless they are members of immigrant communities! Would there not be much outrage if similar legislation were introduced to benefit only white teens?! A problem is a problem, regardless of race or nationality. It is alarming to me that Senator Obama does not seem to share this opinion.

Please see my response in the following post:anti-gay, anti-catholic, anti-nonchristian are not anti-american

Alison, 3/14/08 - you're wrong - some of the media did mention about Rev. Wright, but the liberal media decided to down play it as an issue. See where it got them----

Alison, 3/14/08 - you're wrong - some of the media did mention about Rev. Wright, but the liberal media decided to down play it as an issue. See where it got them----

Alison, 3/14/08 - you're wrong - some of the media did mention about Rev. Wright, but the liberal media decided to down play it as an issue. See where it got them----

As impressive as Senator Obama's recent speech was, it raises many questions regarding his conduct as it relates to his involvement with Rev. Wright: (1) What does it say about Senator Obama that he reversed his earlier assertion that he was unaware of his pastor's radical sermons? (2) Since we now know that he was present, why did he choose to remain in the church and continue to expose himself and his family to such toxic beliefs? (3) Why did the senator not challenge Rev. Wright on these appalling statements? (4) What does this say about his discernment and willingness to create change in this divisive forum? (5) And, finally, if Senator Obama lacks the moral courage to confront wrongdoing in his own church, how can we expect him to act differently as president?

I spoke with a woman who answered the phone at a local Catholic church back in 2004. During our discussion she commented, " why should the rich pay for the poor?" Guess she never cracked open a Bible. This is part of the hypocrisy found in every religion, every church, not just a black church, but ALL churches. Why does anyone go back week after week to their church??? I would ask Uncle Sam poster above, what exactly do you find to be "toxic" beliefs? I find anyone's religious beliefs "toxic" and "fairytales" so I call on abolishment of ALL churches. Of course as this isn't realistic I have no choice but to know there are those out there who believe such utter nonsense by which they claim to live their lives. Problem with this is most, as woman I open post with, don't even have a clue what the Bible states!
Secondly, on Wright comment of God Damn America followed by the reason, as he was giving fact, it was our involvement in the Middle East that caused these radicals to attack us, what exactly is faulty in his comment? It was based on fact which has even been given in NIE reports. So some of you are up in arms over it because.............why??? Are you truly so warped by fiction that you don't think our country has ever done wrong or harm by their words or actions? Get out those dusty history books...............

Hey Sean ...

Regarding Bill Richardson ... what was this
'prominent' proud hispanic governor's hispanic
name, before he changed it to Richardson?

Obama talks about listening to the voters vs.
the delegates ... however, Hillary won the popular
vote in New Mexico, and yet Obama is more than
ready to have Richardson provide his 'super deligate'
vote for Obama???

I noticed that CNN devotes much more ink to Obama
than Hillary.

ROLAND MARTIN WHITE WASHES WRIGHT & OBAMA

I've always felt that Roland Martin was biased toward Obama. On news programs he always adds some spin to let Obama ... and, now Wright look better. First of all ... CNN's title of the article is 'The Full Story' ... huh uh ... CNN'S full story maybe. Plus, who cares if an ambassador wrote most of the 'chickens coming home to roost' speech. Martin makes a big thing about 'context' ... and, yet the ambassador's context was much different than Wright's ... not to mention, less emotional ... less incendiary ... and, over a period of time, not in a context of speeches that were racially explosive, divisive, anti-American ('god damn America'... the government created AIDS to get rid of blacks ... 911 govt. conspiracy ... etc.) ... and, not after giving Louis Farrakan a lifetime achievement award ... that's context! Personally, I don't need Roland Martin's INTERPRETATION ... Martin's article doesn't justify Obama exposing himself, and his family to Wright's racist associations, and hate speech for over 20 years ... (another aspect of context). As eloquent a speech writer and speaker Obama is ... I think his ambition over shadows his honesty and patriotism ... and, I don't trust him.

Hey Sean ...

Regarding Bill Richardson ... what was this
'prominent' proud hispanic governor's hispanic
name, before he changed it to Richardson?

Obama talks about listening to the voters vs.
the delegates ... however, Hillary won the popular
vote in New Mexico, and yet Obama is more than
ready to have Richardson provide his 'super deligate'
vote for Obama???

I noticed that CNN devotes much more ink to Obama
than Hillary.

ROLAND MARTIN WHITE WASHES WRIGHT & OBAMA

I've always felt that Roland Martin was biased toward Obama. On news programs he always adds some spin to let Obama ... and, now Wright look better. First of all ... CNN's title of the article is 'The Full Story' ... huh uh ... CNN'S full story maybe. Plus, who cares if an ambassador wrote most of the 'chickens coming home to roost' speech. Martin makes a big thing about 'context' ... and, yet the ambassador's context was much different than Wright's ... not to mention, less emotional ... less incendiary ... and, over a period of time, not in a context of speeches that were racially explosive, divisive, anti-American ('god damn America'... the government created AIDS to get rid of blacks ... 911 govt. conspiracy ... etc.) ... and, not after giving Louis Farrakan a lifetime achievement award ... that's context! Personally, I don't need Roland Martin's INTERPRETATION ... Martin's article doesn't justify Obama exposing himself, and his family to Wright's racist associations, and hate speech for over 20 years ... (another aspect of context). As eloquent a speech writer and speaker Obama is ... I think his ambition over shadows his honesty and patriotism ... and, I don't trust him.

Hey Sean ...

Regarding Bill Richardson ... what was this
'prominent' proud hispanic governor's hispanic
name, before he changed it to Richardson?

Obama talks about listening to the voters vs.
the delegates ... however, Hillary won the popular
vote in New Mexico, and yet Obama is more than
ready to have Richardson provide his 'super deligate'
vote for Obama???

I noticed that CNN devotes much more ink to Obama
than Hillary.

ROLAND MARTIN WHITE WASHES WRIGHT & OBAMA

I've always felt that Roland Martin was biased toward Obama. On news programs he always adds some spin to let Obama ... and, now Wright look better. First of all ... CNN's title of the article is 'The Full Story' ... huh uh ... CNN'S full story maybe. Plus, who cares if an ambassador wrote most of the 'chickens coming home to roost' speech. Martin makes a big thing about 'context' ... and, yet the ambassador's context was much different than Wright's ... not to mention, less emotional ... less incendiary ... and, over a period of time, not in a context of speeches that were racially explosive, divisive, anti-American ('god damn America'... the government created AIDS to get rid of blacks ... 911 govt. conspiracy ... etc.) ... and, not after giving Louis Farrakan a lifetime achievement award ... that's context! Personally, I don't need Roland Martin's INTERPRETATION ... Martin's article doesn't justify Obama exposing himself, and his family to Wright's racist associations, and hate speech for over 20 years ... (another aspect of context). As eloquent a speech writer and speaker Obama is ... I think his ambition over shadows his honesty and patriotism ... and, I don't trust him.

Amazing how McCain supporters can give their guy a huge pass by saying it's okay to stand up for bigots who say horrible things as long as they don't do it for some undefined amount of time.

If they think this isn't going to hurt McCain when the press gets around to giving McCain the kind of scrutiny as they have Obama and Clinton, they are, as usual, deluded.

Hagee said that McCain ASKED HIM to endorse McCain.

And I'm sure Catholics will be as shocked that McCain is close with a someone who called the Catholic Church "the great whore" and says the Pope is the antichrist. Of course a lot of rightwing bigots believe that too, but they're going to lose a lot of Catholic votes and the votes of other protestant churches.

Mark, please keep these articles comming. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is exactley the point a lot of people are making. Why should McCaine and his legion of ministers from hell get a pass? Because, Republicans think they don't have to be held accountable for there discretions, that's why! And when it comes down to it, their man probably has a hell of a lot more baggage then is on display, that will all change in the general elction, when he and they are exsposed.

Mark, please keep these articles comming. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is exactley the point a lot of people are making. Why should McCaine and his legion of ministers from hell get a pass? Because, Republicans think they don't have to be held accountable for there discretions, that's why! And when it comes down to it, their man probably has a hell of a lot more baggage then is on display, that will all change in the general elction, when he and they are exsposed.

Thankyou - a fair voice among "National Inquirer" politics.

Thankyou - a fair voice among "National Inquirer" politics.

McCain is basicly a hypocrite. He has aligned himself with more dangerous maniac religious right wing Christians. He will never be elected. The American people are too smart to vote for a person like him. He is just another Bush. Look what Bush did to this country.

First, thank you Mark. Please keep up the good work.

Second, if there is anyone here that can honestly say that the attacks of 911 and the hatred the world has towards the US is not the result of our foriegn policy and constant interference in other countries to further our interest and can provide proff that the US has not brought much of this on ourselves then I will vote for MCCain and condemn the Rev. Wright.

If any person here can submit proof that the US never experimentated on African Americans I will vote for McCain. I will condemn Rev. Wright for even thinking we could do such a thing.

You see if you cannot accept the truth about the history and actions of this country that have brought about ill will then we will vener grow or heal.

You insult intelligence when you would rather close you eyes and vote with your emotions rather than on truth and reality.

Do you really think we are going to get better using the same people, policies and politics?

Time for change, just do this practice saying President Obama the more you the better it feels.

I really do not see the parallel between Dr. Wright and Hagee, Parsley, Fallwell. It is surprising to me how many people do not know the difference between racism and prejudice. Wright is no racist and nothing has been showed to support this lie. Being proud of and teaching pride in the African American culture is not racist. As a matter of fact it is very much needed when African American children are still growing up wanting to we white. Black people can't have pride in their own heritage and ancestry? "Different not deficient". Other cultures do it and they are not dubbed racists or anti-American. Also Wright did not damn the American people, he damned the bureaucracy for allowing the innocent American people to die due to arrogance. It is so funny how many people still try to link Obama to Dr. Wright in order to have some reason not to trust or like the man. We all have co-workers, pastors, friends and family who have different beliefs and ideas and we still maintain relationships with them. How come Obama can't? The truth is these same people are really bigots themselves trying to hold on to their beliefs no matter how skewed. They just want to be right. Please get over yourselves and tell the truth. If you're a bigot stand proud in it so we can move on. Fox News and others did not dupe the American people, they only made themselves look like fools.

Jeremiah Wrights doctrine is anti white, anti christian and anti America based on black liberation theology...
John Haggi's and Rod Parsley's doctrines are based on the word of God..They are not based on race, or anti american or antichrist teachings.
The bible condemns the sin of homosexuality and it condemns the doctrines of islam...John 8 and ..1 john 2-18-22
Now I ask in all sincerity which doctrine would satan and his kiddies discredit
Have fun kiddies.. Your days of deceit and evil are numbered.. The word of God that you do not believe has promised it.

Jeremiah Wrights doctrine is anti white, anti christian and anti America based on black liberation theology...
John Haggi's and Rod Parsley's doctrines are based on the word of God..They are not based on race, or anti american or antichrist teachings.
The bible condemns the sin of homosexuality and it condemns the doctrines of islam...John 8 and ..1 john 2-18-22
Now I ask in all sincerity which doctrine would satan and his kiddies discredit
Have fun kiddies.. Your days of deceit and evil are numbered.. The word of God that you do not believe has promised it.