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Michigan Primary Trouble: The Final Snag?

18 Mar 2008 04:04 pm

The politics of this are crystal clear. The Obama campaign did not want a Michigan re-vote or a Florida re-vote. So they've raised objection after objection. Some of them have been spurious and others have been valid.

Last night, the following objection began to make the rounds:

In Michigan, there is a law stating that the first time you vote, you have to do so in-person, and can only request an absentee after doing that initial in-person verification. This would obviously be a huge problem for Obama folks, as pretty much all college students are newly registered. Some will be stuck at school and can't vote absentee from home; others will be newly registered at their school and won't be able to vote there as they will be home as summer will have begun.

Well, this is so because a Michigan law passed by a Republican-controlled legislature in the mid-1990s prohibits students from being registered to vote at a different address than their driver's license. And Michigan's motor vehicle laws require that persons must be registered to vote at their residence address. Because many college students change their residence during college and many remain on their parents' auto insurance policy, most keep their address on their driver's license at their parents' home, not at a college address. Changing the driver's license address regularly as they move back and forth and around campus would be a hassle and costly. That means it's generally easier for Michigan college students to keep their home address on their driver's license and easier to vote at home than on campus.

An expert explained the problem to me:

The real problem for college students generally comes in a general election in November. Most students are on campus then and it is a difficult time to travel home to vote (although some do travel home on Election Day just to vote). Witness the 2000 congressional elections in which U.S. Rep Mike Rogers defeated State Rep. Dianne Byrum by less than 200 votes to take the seat vacated by Debbie Stabenow. Many college students at Michigan State University were unable to vote on campus due to their driver's license addresses. Reports were in the hundreds. Many credit this restriction is credited with Rogers' narrow victory. In fact, many refer to the driver's license restriction as the Rogers' Law.

A June election, in contrast, when students are home, actually may result in higher student turnout because more students are home near the polling place for the address on their driver's license. It's easier to vote in person or get an absentee ballot from their home clerk when they are home and not on campus.

But just to assume that June is more difficult for college students because school is out is an assumption made by someone who doesn't really understand all of the issues with college student voting in Michigan caused by laws passed by Republicans in the 1990s.

Comments (30)

Marc, what is crystal clear to you is rather interesting. Since Obama has always declared he would go with whatever the DNC decided, to say he was against a re-vote is patently absurd.

And the student voting thing is also absurd. That dictate was in there for years, and I believe other states have the same rule in place (although many don't.)

Obama needs to address the issue clearly - say something like "I support a re-vote in Michigan, but only if all Democrats can vote. Anything less would be unfair and undemocratic." Then the ball's back in the other court.

Out of curiosity, do you think that the Obama campaign doesn't want a Michigan revote because they might lose delegates (unlikely in my book), or because they don't want to stretch this into June?

Makes sense that Republican legislatures would put up barriers making it harder for college students to vote. Also puts in perspective why the youth vote so often fails to materialize in the numbers people expect.

As an Oregonian who gets to use our simple mail in voting all I have to add is the rest of you states have some seriously messed up systems and this country is long overdue for massive voting reform.

"So they've raised objection after objection. Some of them have been spurious and others have been valid."

Marc, I'm interested to know about these spurious objections they've raised. Can you provide links to previous posts of your own, or posts or articles by others, that describe these objections? I'm interested only in arguments made by the campaign's officials, not just its supporters.

This sounds so familiar. I remember when the Republicans wanted to stop counting the votes in Florida in 2000. Now a Democrat wants to stop counting votes too? It's a shame that Florida's votes once again won't count and now Michigan is experiencing the same thing.

Senator Obama, if you want to be the Democratic Nominee, you should WANT to win the nomination by having all of the votes counted NOT by cutting off the votes that don't go in your favor. What a message this will send to Florida and Michigan voters. If they can’t count on our nominee, how can we count on them to come through for us in November?

Yes, I am for Hillary. I want CHANGE to happen. This change that we all want can only happen if we win in November. We need a candidate with SUBSTANCE not just talk to WIN in NOVEMBER. If Senator Obama wins the nomination, the republicans will dig deep and exploit all these unknowns about him. We will end up having four more years of failed Bush policies. We need Change. This will change will come with Hillary as or nominee.

HILLARY 2008!!

After reading this last comment I just can't resist...


100 REASONS NOT TO VOTE FOR HILLARY CLINTON

THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!! FOR HILLARY!!!

It's up to the DNC and state parties to come up with a plan. The candidates then need to abide by it. That's been the Obama camp's consistent position: we play by the rules. I feel like I'm watching a football game and, at 50 minutes in, people are going back to a first quarter penalty, and insisting the two quarterbacks do something about that call. It just wasn't a good call. The two candidates are hardly the impartial people who should be deciding this--that's why we have refs.

If Obama could wave his hand and cause a wondrous solution, satisfying to all, to materialize, I'd support putting him in charge of the country immediately.

This post is like the Chewbacca defense from South Park.
It does not make sense.

The MI governor has made a proposal. Some legislators, including Obama supporters, at least one Clinton supporter, and uncommitted legislators, have balked.

Those are the facts. What other facts are there? Can you tell us some more facts please?

I support Michigan's right to a do-over. In fact, as a California resident, I think California should re-vote too. I live in a big state, and big states rightly have a bigger say in the nomination. There's nothing in the Democratic Party rules to prevent states from moving their primary later in the calendar year. Every state wants to vote early to influence the momentum of the election. But in a close race, the final primaries are decisive. So I think California should vote early AND vote again in June. Every vote in our state needs to be counted. Not just once, but two times. Otherwise our important voices are disenfranchised.

B Leach has a good point. California is the biggest state; it should vote more.

I live in New York. Can I vote again? Hell, everyone should get two votes.

"“If there is a way of organizing something in those states where both Senator Clinton and I…have enough time to make our case before the voters there, I think that would be fine with me.”" - Barack Obama

What a phony!!!

And the #1 reason NOT to vote for Hillary is...

You want to have John McCain as our next president.

This seems like an interesting compromise that Obama probably should support:

http://ccpsblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/florida-and-michigan-delegations-where.html

Yes. Sure. California and New York can vote twice, as long
as their first vote doesn't count.

Yes. Sure. California and New York can vote twice, as long
as their first vote doesn't count.

Texas is the biggest and best, and here in Texas we've only gotten to vote twice. If Michigan, Florida, California and New York vote again, then we have to have a third vote to stay ahead. After that I'm sure some other states will want to go again, so we'll need to postpone the Democratic national convention. If we move it back to late October then all the states can vote again, and we'll definitely know our nominee before the general election. Right?

I might add that there are a significant number of students who also take classes in the summer. If they are first-time voters, this will obviously preclude them from voting because of the ridiculous first-time in person law.

And yes, it is arcane laws and methods that make voting so complicated that keep a lot of young kids from voting - by the time they figure out the process, they've missed some arbitrary deadline.

I agree with Soros: it's a bad idea to have these primary do-overs because that will only prolong the fight for the nomination, which is bad for the party.

I think that is one very good reason to oppose these, and one that is overlooked. I am glad Soros had the guts to point this out.

Hillary at this point is only dragging the party down.

You Dems are like a gaggle of geese,
waddling aimlessly, honking in cacophony,
a true spectacle for the more conservative
electorate. Keep this up much longer and
your goose is cooked.

Why I won't vote for Obama .. he doesn't believe in Democracy.

It was evident before he put the brakes on Florida and Michigan revotes. It was apparent in Texas. When he declared victory in spite of the fact that he lost by over 100,000 votes. I know, I know for Obama it's all about delegates, but that's what is wrong with Obama. He misses the point that it's not about delegates, it's about voters. That's why we let everyone vote, well as long as they don't live in Florida or Michigan.

For all his pretty speeches, Obama doesn't understand that when you have a system that awards victory to the person who lost the popular vote by 100,000 votes, there is something wrong with the system.

Sisyphusjns your argument about Obama not liking democracy is ridiculous he did not invent the system nor did he set the rules. The rules clearly state it about delegates and not the popular vote. He never asked the Michigan and Florida democrats to disobey the rules. And please get your facts straight, Clinton once declared it was all about the delegate count. I guess you like many of her supporters are not smart enough to understand the rules.

Not So Bright :When the Clinton Campaign said it was about the delegates, they said it was about the delegates not the Momentum. They weren't ignoring the will of the voters, claiming that the voters said something they did not. What's the point of having an election if your going to give the victory to the person who received the fewest number of votes?

I don't really think it matters one way or the other how we determine the Democratic nominee. There is no way either of them is going to win anyways. Most of the Democrats I know, and that's mostly who I associate with, only support their candidate and hold the other in complete contempt. As I hold Obama in contempt for ruining the democrats best chance at the presidency in a long time. I'm certainly not going to reward his egotistical and distructive behavior by voting for him should he get the nomination. Further, I wouldn't expect Obama supporters, with their obvious contempt for merit, to support Hillary.

I understand that the main reasons for OBAMA's
opposition are that the DEM proposals call for a closed primary, which favors Hillary, as well as the fact that such primary will be useless, as the
last polls show a dead draw and therefore the result would be +/- a few delegates and totally irrelevant.

This only would signify delaying a solution for the nominaion, provide a further distraction in
the fight again McCAIN, aside consuming funds which could be used in the main election.

It is CRISTAL CLEAR that the only reason HILLARY is promoting this is precisely introduce a delay,
giving her more time to persuade the super-delegates to reverse the voters dictamen. IS THIS
DEMOCRATIC ??

But if I were the Republican Legislature, I WOULD
AUTHORIZE THE RE-VOTE, as this would further deteriorate the democratic possibilities in November !!

Caminito


I have never read comments that are so far off the truth and the mark than what everyone is disussing in this thread forum.

Here are the facts and the truth. Michigan and Florida broke DNC rules. Obama followed those rules and has not waivered. Hillary is attempting to manipulate and invalidate the true will of the voting populas for her own political gain. Michigan nor Florida should be allowed to have their delegates seated. Obama didn't campaign in either state and Hillary did in violation of DNC rules and her own committment. She is wishy washy to say the least but Obama is no prize at all.

Listen people, wake up, they're all snowing us and pulling the wool over our eyes. The voters in Michigan and Florida should be outraged at what their local politicians did against DNC rules. They should be throwing their elected officials that are responsible for this out of office. This is a historic election year in which if Michigan and Florida had left things the way they were, they would have had a big say in selecting the next democratic nominee this year. Instead inexperienced and emotionally charged heads of state like Jennifer Granholm of Michigan decided to rewrite the rules. The voters should punish these politicians in these states with recalls.

They would have had a huge influence in this years nomination. Now they'll be lucky if they get any of their delegates seated. It's not Hillary or Obama that thrust the democratic party into this position. It's incompetent politicians that have done so and the voters of these states should be looking to replace the Jennifer Granholms of the world.

All, this is not a fight amongst us the voters or our personal beliefs or opinions. This is about preserving the integrity of the democratic process. These politicians that like to move the goal line around for their own political benefit and the benefit of the party is bi-partisen politics at it's worst in US history. We need to stand together and demand accountability for those responsible for undermining the democratic process like Jennifer Granholm of Michigan.

For these reasons I think I'll vote republican in the next elections. They too are at fault for many things but they are much more consistant and at least you know when the goal line is established, it won't be moved or shifted for the benefit of a few. They don't waiver the way the democrates seem to do today.

With all this going on, I'm scared to have a democrate in office. With what is happening in the party, all we'll have with a democrate is more special interest influence and underhanded type schemes in which Michigan and Florida tried to pull off.

You're all fooled by what really needs to happen. Politicians that are responsible need to be thrown from their offices at once over this.

The rules are the rules and need to be preserved to preserve the credibility of the party and the process. If our votes in Michigan and Florida don't count in this electtion year, it's not Obama, Hillary or the DNC we should direct our discontent at, it's the politicians in those states that broke rules and manipulated a process for their own parties political gain.

Michigan and Florida would have had a major inpact on this nomination had their politicians followed the rules and left things the way they were!

Sisyphusjns, sorry, but "Bright" is actually correct. Hilary is banking on winning superdelegates and that's why she said the delegates matter.

Look at the CNN results and add up the votes (not delegates) like I did and you will see the Obama not only has more delegates than Hilary, but votes as well.

Obama has 12,528,026 votes
Hilary has 12,058,664 votes - 469,362 behind
If you truly believe votes should count and delegates shouldn't, Obama is the winner.
(Note: Florida and Michigan numbers are already disqualified so you can't count them, but if or when they do a redo, we can add their numbers in.)

Also in Florida, the democratic party can't agree on how to do a redo (not Obama) and Obama's attorney brought up concerns about a Michigan redo. He didn't say he doesn't want to do a redo his attorney is advising on possible problems.

Obama is not "egotistical" or "distructive" nor ruining the chances for a democratic president. The party and it's leaders are ruining that with their indecisiveness and letting the Florida/Michigan problem fester. Those States knew the rules and consequences, they went ahead and now must face the consequences. The american people and voters suffer, but neither Obama or Hilary is to blame. Florida/Michigan caucus organizers are ruining our chances and it's sad because in truth both Hilary and Obama are intelligent and would be good Presidents.

I'm a Clinton delegate to next week's county caucuses in Texas. I'm quite upset that the states' democratic parties in Florida and Michigan have screwed it up. IF the demos don't straighten this out by convention, I will vote independent, and my my wife also a Clinton supporter will vote for for someone else, but not McCain. There are choices other than the major parties, ours may be an anti-Obama and anti-McCain vote, while history shows independents not winning, at least we cast our ballots to reflect our disgust at the major parties.

Your info isn't completely accurate. When you register to vote in Michigan you get an automatic, free change of address sticker in michigan, which allows you to vote where you have registered at this new address. I go to Michigan State; if the students would fill out a simple form and turn or send it in, this wouldn't be a problem. Turnout was so small because of apathy, not because of registration problems. Though moving the primary may have not allowed some students, and other community members to register. Also, if you've registered somewhere to vote in Michigan, you can vote there again even if it isn't your current district, but the next time you would have to vote within the district that you reside in. The real reason they make the registration so difficult in Michigan is so that students won't collude and start electing city councilmen to represent them. A guy tried to run for city councilman in East Lansing a couple of years ago but he failed. East Lansing continues to target ordinances directly at students to bolster their coffers yet the students don't do anything. Apathy is the glove fascism slips its hand into...


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