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Searching For Rev. Wright.

14 Mar 2008 11:46 am

As we read in "Dreams from My Father," In 1985, when a twentysomething Barack Obama was shopping for a Church, he was also on his self-described search for his identity and was trying to figure out where he fit in this universe. He had discovered, to his dismay, that his birth father was not the hero he imagined. Obama was vulnerable and disillusioned. He deliberately sought Wright as a source of authentically black inspiration.... and the two developed a very close relationship that has weathered Wright's turn to separatist black nationalism and radical politics. Obama eventually settled his identity wanderings in someplace very different, but his relationship with Wright endured.

"The title of Reverend Wright's sermon that morning was 'The Audacity of Hope.' .... As I watched and listened from my seat, I began to hear all the notes from the past three years swirl about me. The courage and fear of Ruby and Will. The race pride and anger of men like Rafiq. The desire to let go, the desire to escape, the desire to give oneself up to a God that could somehow put a floor on despair."

An epiphany. "Hope," for Obama, traces its origins to this sermon. Wright is therefore important as an intellectual source for Obama's politics and not merely a spiritual guide.

Anyway, Andrew Sullivan wants to hear more from Obama about Rev. Wright:

It's nutty, offensive and paranoid stuff. And it is perfectly legitimate for reporters and voters to ask questions. It is not much nuttier than Falwell and Robertson, however. And I don't think it's racist to understand that the black church has a different cultural style in its preaching and activism style that helps add some dimension to Wright's record. If you read Obama's books and listen to him speak about his church, it's clear that he was not drawn by Wright's more inflammatory and offensive language. His engagement with the Church was an attempt to connect with the life and feelings of a black urban class he had never truly belonged to and whom he intended to represent. We can forget what an outsider Obama was when he first came to Chicago.

Nonetheless, Obama needs to be much more forceful and candid in explaining his relationship with Wright. I'm a little leery of getting in between a man and his minister - it's not unlike the lawyer-client relationship in some ways. And, goodness knows, I have had many a priest with whom I have disagreed or even found offensive. But like many people, I wouldn't sit through one of these sermons, let alone come back for more. And it would be helpful, to say the very least, if Obama told us more candidly why he did and does.

Comments (59)

Obama could do more than disassociate himself from this speech; he could use it as his own 'Sister Souljah moment'...

http://marbury.typepad.com/marbury/2008/03/oh-dear-oh-dear.html

Organized religion, to the extent that it's worthwhile at all, is about two things. First, it's about community organization around moral principles. That's why Obama joined the church in the first place. Second, it's about having the sorts of honest philosophical discussions about real life where people say what they think and often say things that wouldn't look good on a glossy political brochure in this hypersensitive age of instant media coverage. This latter aspect of organized religion -- honest community dialogue in Southside Chicago -- could be an almost endless source of controversy for Obama's campaign, if we, the commentators, deem it a topic worth dwelling on from our perch outside Chicago's poorer neighborhoods.

But what good would shutting up the South Side's black leaders do for that community? And if the answer is, as I suspect, that nothing good would come of it, but that you'd alienate a whole faith community who are just trying to do their best for each other, then you have to ask why we should essentially be demanding that Obama turn on them and denounce their conversation just because some of the speakers are saying things that are politically inconvenient when broadcast on television in Pennsylvania. Is that sterile, politically correct climate of fear of expression really worth promoting as a national political value?

8,000 people attend that church. Including many white people. It's the biggest church in the whole UCC denomination. And what we're talking about here are 1 or 2 cherry-picked sermons, none of which were really "nutty", "offensive", or "paranoid". Sure, they might seem that way to a white guy who's blotted out the memories of civil rights abuses that still resonate in the lives of African-Americans today.

Um... Two points.

1. Please provide a link to support your "Wright's turn to separatist black nationalism and radical politics" point.

2. In response to Sullivan, how exactly are these few cases "nuttier than Falwell and Robertson" in any way?

Has Wright claimed that God would call him home if he didn't get an infusion of cash? Of course not...

Perhaps many whites, liberal or otherwise, are apparently shocked that some African Americans still do not feel completely included in the American experience.

Hopefully this will lead to a reasonable dialogue about the real challenges still faced by many in our society.

And they wonder why we never get progress in this country on substantive issues, with the media and smear merchants focusing on meaningless stuff like this.

I want Hillary to account for every pastor she's had; every adviser she's had, and their comments.

I want McCain to account for every pastor he's had; every adviser he's had, and their comments.

Is this just a standard for black candidates and black churches?

I have news for you: plenty of white pastors have made very crazy remarks. Some are very influential. Some have ties to candidates.

Or again, is this a double standard for black candidates?

At the great risk of overstepping my place, there is this:

You don't flesh out a message of ending divisions by immediately jumping in and going for a Republican-style shunning exercise.

What the bogus "patriots" who are so horribly offended by Wright ought to understand is that the improvement of race relations is not best started by standing outside poor, urban black communities and yelling, "Shame on you!", "Our country is #1", "America is beautiful, no matter what your experience of it has been", "It's all your own fault, liberal swine" and variations of "You are wrong, we are right" set to the hymns of cultural high priesthood.

There are a great number of divisive approaches within both communities that people are yearning to heal. Wright is retiring. Bill Cosby is vocal and others have taken up the same mantel. Even Farrakhan, has recognized the changing of the times (have a look at how he responded to his "denunciation" - who else could have achieved such a result, except an Obama? And yes, I'd count that as progress of sorts).

If Michelle Obama, for instance, can feel proud of her country, in a new way, then I'm welcoming that, on her own terms.

...


And if someone still disagree with me, I still have two words for you: New Orleans.

People seem to want one of two things, either for Obama to reject the more radical remarks made by Wright or reject and denounce Wright himself.

On the first part, he has done this several times in the pasat and, to his credit, continues to do so without whining about it.

Consider this scenario: One month from now somebody replays Ferraro's comments and asks Clinton to disavow them. Would that be fair to do? And do you think Clinton is going to say "Of course I reject and denounce them" or "Look folks, that is old news, I already did in the paast and I resent them coming up again."?

My sense is it would be the latter.

On the second request. Wright represents somewhat of a father figure for Obama. Now, my father was an alcoholic bigot who would frequently tell off color racist jokes and signed a petition to keep AA's from moving into our neighborhood. In addition to that, he also taught me about the necessity for honesty, hard work and the need to remain true to myself.

Because part of who or what he was was a negative, which I have rejected, do I have to denounce him as an individual? Anybody that tells me I would have to can go ... .

Two things:

1) In the general election, are white working class Democrats REALLY going to vote against national health care and for an indefinite presence in Iraq because of this?

2) Nothing in those sermons is offensive.

3) Though he's my candidate, I don't have many illusions about Obama. I suspect he will try to sell this guy out as viciously as possible. I don't know if it will work. It will make me like him less.

ALSO: Wright could help by going on record as saying that he and Obama have had heated private arguments about this stuff. Even if it's not true.

Obama "disagrees with some of the statements" from Wright???

Give me a break! To sit and listen to ANY of that crap for 20 years makes Obama just as dirty as Scumbag Wright (don't call him Rev. again; he ain't no man of God!).

For Obama or anyone else to sit in that cult "church" and listen to that evil B.S., just lends a false credibility to such an imposter.

Now we see where Obama's wife feeds her hatred from too.

I don't care how many "good" things a person has to say. When their "evil" finally shows through, it's time to stay away permanently.

Obama displays TERRIBLE JUDGEMENT!!!!!! He should NEVER be allowed to make decisions for this country!!!

Hey Obama, try explaining what parts of Wright's message you DO agree with!

Wishful thinking for those of you who think this won't hurt Obama should he make it to the general. He has trouble with blue collar dems and this is the kind of association that will not make them inclined to support him. You might find it unfair, but that doesn't change the facts.
He needs to strongly denounce this guy and hope for the best or you will find a resurgence of the old Reagan dem's. If he doesn't you will find ads playing this AIDS conspiracy lunacy all over the country.

Barrack Obama along with his America hating wife and their America hating, racist preacher who HATE America and white people are NOT what America needs! VOTE FOR HILLARY!! Before it is too late. THIS is an OUTRAGE.

Obama's Mentor --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM

I WILL NEVER VOTE FOR HILLARY. I WILL SIT THIS ONE OUT BUT NOT VOTE FOR THAT LYING, WITCH ON A BROOM. THIS IS ALL HER DOING. ALIGNING HERSELF WITH FOXNEWS AND RIGHT RADIO BRING THIS OUT NOW! AMERICA IS A RACIST NATION. pERIOD. AND FOR ANYONE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE IN LALA LAND. DON'T FORGET BILL CLINTON'S MENTOR WAS FULLBRIGHT. AND WHAT ABOUT THEIR SHADY CONNECTIONS WITH PASTOR MANNING OF HARLEM. WELL, THAT'S FOR NEXT WEEK, I SUPPOSE. THIS IS IT! FINISH THIS! THIS PRIMARY SEASON HAS BEEN A COMPLETE NIGHTMARE AND TRUST ME WHEN THE RIGHT GETS THEIR HANDS ON HRC, THAT'S WHEN I AM GOING TO HAVE ALL THE FUN. THERE ARE A ZILLION SKELETONS IN HER CLOSET. YOU THINK THE MEDIA IS GOING TO SPEW HER TALKING POINTS WHEN SHE BECOMES THE NOMINEE? NO WAY. ITS MCACAIN ALL THE WAY FOR THEM, SINCE THE CLINTONS HAVE EFFECTIVELY DESTROYED OBAMA. NOW IT OUR TURN TO WATCH THEM SELF-DESTRUCT. THAT HAVE BEEN FOR SOME TIME.

I get that Obama disagrees with some of the bizarre things that wright peddles. But sticking with Louis F. and giving Louis F. isn't something that makes Obama switch churches? Damning America isn't hateful to make him change churches and sever ties?
America invented aids?
this is the guy that married obama and his wife and he's not speaking out against him?
this looks like a dealbreaker to me.
I don't think I can vote for anyone who worships in such a hateful place.
I am going to send some more money to Hillary.

I WILL NEVER VOTE FOR HILLARY. I WILL SIT THIS ONE OUT BUT NOT VOTE FOR THAT LYING, WITCH ON A BROOM. THIS IS ALL HER DOING. ALIGNING HERSELF WITH FOXNEWS AND RIGHT RADIO BRING THIS OUT NOW! AMERICA IS A RACIST NATION. pERIOD. AND FOR ANYONE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE IN LALA LAND. DON'T FORGET BILL CLINTON'S MENTOR WAS FULLBRIGHT. AND WHAT ABOUT THEIR SHADY CONNECTIONS WITH PASTOR MANNING OF HARLEM. WELL, THAT'S FOR NEXT WEEK, I SUPPOSE. THIS IS IT! FINISH THIS! THIS PRIMARY SEASON HAS BEEN A COMPLETE NIGHTMARE AND TRUST ME WHEN THE RIGHT GETS THEIR HANDS ON HRC, THAT'S WHEN I AM GOING TO HAVE ALL THE FUN. THERE ARE A ZILLION SKELETONS IN HER CLOSET. YOU THINK THE MEDIA IS GOING TO SPEW HER TALKING POINTS WHEN SHE BECOMES THE NOMINEE? NO WAY. ITS MCACAIN ALL THE WAY FOR THEM, SINCE THE CLINTONS HAVE EFFECTIVELY DESTROYED OBAMA. NOW IT OUR TURN TO WATCH THEM SELF-DESTRUCT. THAT HAVE BEEN FOR SOME TIME.

What seems most obvious whenever I read an article showing even a potential of unfavorable light to Obama, is that a slew of his campaigners go on and slather their pro-Obama comments, so that whoever is reading the article will be convinced otherwise and that the "rest" of America or, at least, all the readers of the particular article will be convinced that Obama is still the "chosen one," the golden child. E-V-E-R-Y S-I-N-G-L-E that questions or probes into his golden child status in A-N-Y way is absolute INUNDATED w/ pro-Obama posts from his well paid campaign staff. Please stop the propaganda...

That video is really not offensive at all. He stated that jesus was non-white in a white-ruled country, and so is barack obama and himself, and hilary is white, so therefor she can't truly understand what it feels like to have to work twice as hard for everything you get. I mean, there are more offensive quotes out there than that, and you can't honestly be a liberal of any quality and not accept the fact that black americans still struggle. liberals acknowledge this, which is why the democrats get the african american vote. his words are hardly radical there. honestly, the real thing they can pin on him is the farrakhan thing, but that sermon? that's nothing.

These are actual links to Trinity United Church and a overview of Black Liberation Theology as developed by James Cone.

Warning: Some people may find these offensive. If you do, simply replace white for black and black for white. If you do that, then look for the where this fits in your understanding of the teachings of Jesus.


Rev. Wright has his views spelled out.

Trinity United Church official website
http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.


More on the Rev. Jerimiah Wright
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright

About Black Liberation Theology
http://atheism.about.com/od/theology/a/lib_black.htm

Most of the time, though, James Cone was critical of the ideas of European theologians that were part of the American experience. He noted, for example, that many white Christians emphasized ideas like justification by faith and grace as central Christian themes. Against this he argued that, from the perspective of black Christians, the idea of liberation from oppression was much more important and had a much more immediate relevancy to their lives.

More on James Cone's Black Liberation Theology

"To be black is to be committed to destroying everything this country loves and adores."

"Black theology will accept only a love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy."


http://www.answers.com/topic/james-cone

The first major attempt to integrate Black Power with theology was James Cone's book Black Theology and Black Power (1969). Here Cone developed the thesis that Black Power is "Christ's central message to twentieth century America," that Black Power means "complete emancipation of Black people from white oppression by whatever means Black people deem necessary," and that "Whether whites want to hear it or not, Christ is Black, baby, with all the features which are so detestable to white society." Such rhetoric was not likely to win friends among white people, so consequently Cone became the target of a barrage of white criticism. What his critics failed to do was to read Cone's book from cover to cover, for in the final paragraph of his book he explains: "Being black in America has very little to do with skin color. To be black means that your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body are where the dispossessed are. … Being reconciled to God does not mean that one's skin is physically black. It essentially depends on the color of your heart, soul, and mind." For Cone, then, blackness is a symbol for the oppressed and whiteness is a symbol for the oppressor.

In his subsequent writings Cone consistently maintained the use of these symbols. In his second book, A Black Theology of Liberation (1970), Cone's rhetoric sounds strident if one fails to understand his use of the terms black and white. For example: "To be black is to be committed to destroying everything this country loves and adores." Or again, "Black theology will accept only a love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy." In looking back on these earlier books, Cone later admitted that he would no longer use such extreme language, but, nevertheless, his condemnation of racism and oppression was as strong as ever.

These are actual links to Trinity United Church and a overview of Black Liberation Theology as developed by James Cone.

Warning: Some people may find these offensive. If you do, simply replace white for black and black for white. If you do that, then look for the where this fits in your understanding of the teachings of Jesus.


Rev. Wright has his views spelled out.

Trinity United Church official website
http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.


More on the Rev. Jerimiah Wright
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright

About Black Liberation Theology
http://atheism.about.com/od/theology/a/lib_black.htm

Most of the time, though, James Cone was critical of the ideas of European theologians that were part of the American experience. He noted, for example, that many white Christians emphasized ideas like justification by faith and grace as central Christian themes. Against this he argued that, from the perspective of black Christians, the idea of liberation from oppression was much more important and had a much more immediate relevancy to their lives.

More on James Cone's Black Liberation Theology

"To be black is to be committed to destroying everything this country loves and adores."

"Black theology will accept only a love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy."


http://www.answers.com/topic/james-cone

The first major attempt to integrate Black Power with theology was James Cone's book Black Theology and Black Power (1969). Here Cone developed the thesis that Black Power is "Christ's central message to twentieth century America," that Black Power means "complete emancipation of Black people from white oppression by whatever means Black people deem necessary," and that "Whether whites want to hear it or not, Christ is Black, baby, with all the features which are so detestable to white society." Such rhetoric was not likely to win friends among white people, so consequently Cone became the target of a barrage of white criticism. What his critics failed to do was to read Cone's book from cover to cover, for in the final paragraph of his book he explains: "Being black in America has very little to do with skin color. To be black means that your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body are where the dispossessed are. … Being reconciled to God does not mean that one's skin is physically black. It essentially depends on the color of your heart, soul, and mind." For Cone, then, blackness is a symbol for the oppressed and whiteness is a symbol for the oppressor.

In his subsequent writings Cone consistently maintained the use of these symbols. In his second book, A Black Theology of Liberation (1970), Cone's rhetoric sounds strident if one fails to understand his use of the terms black and white. For example: "To be black is to be committed to destroying everything this country loves and adores." Or again, "Black theology will accept only a love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy." In looking back on these earlier books, Cone later admitted that he would no longer use such extreme language, but, nevertheless, his condemnation of racism and oppression was as strong as ever.

Boy, the Republicans are really afraid of Obama if Hillary All the Way is any guide. They are afraid of everything about him 'cause to throw this around, given that Texas pastor-supporter of McCain's who called the Catholic Church the great whore. They must really be struggling.

Wouldn't it be ironic if Obama lost the nomination because he didn't go the the "right" christian church? Ugh!!!

This is a really terrible time for Obama. I don't know how he will recover if he does not explain his church and his relationship with the pastor in great detail. I am seeing it on these message boards; the very people who voted for him are starting to lose faith in what he offers the country. In case you didn't know it, this is OBAMA's SWIFTBOAT- this attack came directly fron the Republicans and it is a good one with the ability to SINK his campaign. The thing you have to focus on IS because the Republicans have said this does it make it TRUE- does it make Obama a different candidate from the one you knew before. Was John Kerry different in his being after they ran the swiftboat ads? No, he was the SAME patriot he has always been. This country fell for Republican dirty tricks and lost the election in 2004. Are you going to fall for them again? Are you going to think that Obama HATES his white mother who gave him life and his WHITE GRANDPARENTS who raised him? Take out his pastors inflammatory language and get to the core TRUTHS he is espousing. America has made foreign policy decision that have maimed and killed people living outside of this country (this is FACT). We are doing this right now in IRAQ. His pastor believes us being attacked on 9/11 was retaliation for our foreign policy decisions that have killed and maimed- think about it for a second- IS that really so out of the ball park? Don't we WANT a foreign policy that is JUST for all of humankind? One that WILL ENSURES we are not hated enough to be attacked in the outrageous way we were on 9/11? If you as a white person can truly think for a second and try to join your black brothers and sisters (we are ALL HUMAN BEINGS) in this journey and I KNOW you have the decency in you to understand- BLACK AMERICANS have had to LOVE this country when it DID NOT LOVE US. This is the ULTIMATE ACT of love for your country. THAT is the BLACK EXPERIENCE. WHITE People do not have that UNIQUE experience. In the pastor's words WHITES hear HATRED because that has been your experience- to hate and terrorize black americans from slavery to Jim Crow. If you listen closer, you will find what you ACTUALLY hear is ANGER at being SOUGHT OUT for the bad things in country and being EXCLUDED from the goog things in the United States. ANGER comes from injustices. If you dig deep into your souls, you know that we can address these SOCIAL INJUSTICES so we can become the HUMAN FAMILY. Whites seems to think Obama sat there day after day and absorbed HATRED or even ANGER- Have you EVER thought he sat there day after day and said I WILL REPAIR this breach of TRUST that has occured between America and its citizens AND Americans of different races. Obama has said his presidency could bring about racial reconciliation and he is abosolutely RIGHT but do you think it will be easy? Of course not, we as Americans will have to face some UGLY truths about America and then seek to stamp them out. This is our chance to make a MORE PERFECT UNION- one where Pastor Wright can ONLY say GOD BLESS AMERICA for the way she has served her citizens. Are you going to let the REPUGNICANS take this away from you? They WILL you saw it in 2004!!!!!!!!!!! OBAMA 08!!!!!!!


Barack Obama have the strength of character to weather this storm and CREATE A MORE PERECT UNION in the vein of the GREAT AMERICAN Presidents that have come before you- Lincoln, Roosevelt, Kennedy....

THE RIGHT-WING ATTACK MACHINE IS ON THE ROPES. IF FOR A MINUTE WE TAKE THE PREMISE THAT YOU MUST LEAVE, OR DEFEND, YOUR CHURCH IF THEIR ARE STATEMENTS OR POSITIONS THAT YOUR LEADER OR CHURCH TAKES, OK. NOW WHERE DO WE BEGIN? LET'S START WITH THE"LITTLE"MINITRIES OF PAT ROBERTSON AND THE VIEWERS OF CBN, JERRY FALWELL, ORAL ROBERTS, JOHN HAGEE, BOB JONES AND THE UNIVERSITY AND ALUMNI. NEXT UP THE MORMON CHURCH, AND LET'S END WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH THAT HAS DENOUNCED HOMOSEXUALITY, CONTROCEPTION,IRAQ, DEATH PENALTY, AND ITS REACTION TO CHILD ABUSE SCANDALS? OF COURSE CHRISTIANS CAN AND DO SEPARATE THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST FROM THE PERSONAL OPINIONS OF CHURCH LEADERS. I THINK THE ATTACKS ON REV. WRIGHT ARE GOING TO SPUR THE BLACK CHURCHES ACROSS
THE COUNTRY. GOOD JOB RIGHT-WINGERS.

THE RIGHT-WING ATTACK MACHINE IS ON THE ROPES. IF FOR A MINUTE WE TAKE THE PREMISE THAT YOU MUST LEAVE, OR DEFEND, YOUR CHURCH IF THERE ARE STATEMENTS OR POSITIONS THAT YOUR LEADER OR CHURCH TAKES, OK. NOW WHERE DO WE BEGIN? LET'S START WITH THE"LITTLE"MINITRIES OF PAT ROBERTSON AND THE VIEWERS OF CBN, JERRY FALWELL, ORAL ROBERTS, JOHN HAGEE, BOB JONES AND THE UNIVERSITY AND ALUMNI. NEXT UP THE MORMON CHURCH, AND LET'S END WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH THAT HAS DENOUNCED HOMOSEXUALITY, CONTROCEPTION,IRAQ, DEATH PENALTY, AND ITS REACTION TO CHILD ABUSE SCANDALS? OF COURSE CHRISTIANS CAN AND DO SEPARATE THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST FROM THE PERSONAL OPINIONS OF CHURCH LEADERS. I THINK THE ATTACKS ON REV. WRIGHT ARE GOING TO SPUR THE BLACK CHURCHES ACROSS
THE COUNTRY. GOOD JOB RIGHT-WINGERS.

John,

Thank you for your honesty. The level of hypocrisy among some White folks on this issue is astounding. Did anyone ever ask Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton why they didn't disavow their southern Baptist faiths because of their churches embrace of racial intolerance? I don't think there are any of us who don't have grandparents, parents, relatives, or church elders who have not expressed bigotry in their lives--race, gender or sexual orientation--but we've all learned to reconcile our love of them with our hatred for their views. I grew up in the Black church where homosexuality is viewed as a sin. As much as I hate my church's intolerance of homosexuality, I love the community and generosity of the church. The relationship with a pastor is as sacred as that of a child and parent, and it should be off limits.

There is no hypocrisy going on here folks. Rev. Wright is a close personal friend of Obama's, a man he admires, a man he has sought advice from for 20 years, and white america has every reason to be concerned about this hateful rhetoric--all of america should be concerned. No white man or woman could be president belonging to that church, let alone having belonged for 20 years. This isn't simply a supporter. If Jimmy Carter had belonged to a white supremacist church, and yes, the sermons absolutely confirm this as does the church website, he would have been blasted for it. No-one is saying a president can't be spiritual, or can't bel;ong to a church that not all of america agrees with (falwell) but a president can't belong to a church that hates america and hates white people. It just can't happen. The anti-jewish sentment is also very concerning. Actions speak loudly and Obama's actions over the years with regard to this church are troubling to say the least. It speaks to his character, it speaks to his core beliefs.

And you can't be a uniter, a man claiming to transcend race, when you associate with people who are racsist like Wright. And the Obama campaign continues to interject race into this campaign in the most offensive ways. I am a white liberal and it offends me. He can't have it both ways--he can't say he isn't about race and then make everything ABOUT race. That's why these sermons concern people. Who is Obama really? That is the question people are asking today. We know Clinton...like her or not...we know her. We don't know him as well and this kind of thing needs to be looked at seriously by voters. I think it hurt him majorly in a general election. The GOP will run with it and they won't be as hands off as Clinton.


"...this is OBAMA's SWIFTBOAT- this attack came directly fron the Republicans...

---------------------------------

I thought it came directly from the pulpit of the church he has attended for 20 years.

all of you are making good points. I can't imagine for a minute that Obama feels the same way as some of these sermons suggest. I think this person was sort of being paternal to Obama who grew up without a father. Obama is a very complex person who can contain a lot of different viewpoints and love for people in different races, classes, etc. When it comes to the 9/11 sermon, I think it's wrong to blame Americans for what happened in a way, but I do think we need to get more aware of our Administration's foreign policy. Still a lot of people protested the Iraq war before it happened and for years after, but it had no impact on this administration. A lot of us don't know our history in the Middle East and how we supported bin Laden in Afganistan against the Soviets and Saddam Hussein against Iran, and the Gulf War w/the first George Bush. I know we have to protect our way of life against communism and now radical jihad, but we also have to stop using their oil and find other ways of living so as to be more self-sustaining. And we can't export democracy it doesn't work.

And please don't forget that there is a terrorist organization alive and well in this country, called the Ku Klux Klan that still actively targets African Americans. Look at what happened not that long ago to that poor guy in Texas and also all the nooses used symbolically to remind people. So we are not as far ahead as we should be. We need someone who can bridge together all this understanding, otherwise it's always the same.

The Trinity Church has its core principals on its website but I believed has since pulled them down or "altered them." Here is what the site used to reflect.
1. Commitment to God
2. Commitment to the Black Community
3. Commitment to the Black Family
4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
6. Adherence to the Black Work Ethic
7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness"
9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community
10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions
11. Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.

O.K., agree with Sullivan that Obama never had much of a role model in terms of his father, and not much better in terms of his step father. His grandfather on his mother's side seems to have been a solid citiizen for the most part, but by the time Obama was in their care full time, he was in his teens and starting to rebel, so the relationship was a bit fractious.

But it left him prone to influence from some very sketchy characters as he grew into adulthood. From Jeremiah Wright, to Antoin Rezko, to David Axelrod. If you let off Obama as an "innocent" product of a broken home, searching for identity, then you have to look closer at the role models he found later in life. Cosidering that someone like Axelrod currently holds the most sway, the future is very worrisome.

BARACK may as well go to the house. Many who supported him in the primary will not vote for him in Nov.

HE IS NO LONGER ELECTABLE.... TAKE A POLL.

Obama is being forced to address not just his faith but the practice of his faith, forced to answer questions about his church and his pastor. But what about McCain? Again, the media have shown little to no interest in exploring and exposing the Hagee connection, or in addressing McCain’s religious views generally. And what about Clinton?

Well, all you folk who are fleeing Obama's ship due to some of his pastor's statements, I hope you flee to Donald Rumsfeld's! Clearly, you are quick to judge a person by the church he/she attends.

Donald Rumsfeld happens to be a member of Fourth Presbyterian Church, a large, highly inclusive, deeply progressive, strong anti-war congregation in Chicago. Since we are to fast believe that Obama must inhabit Wright's statements, then we must believe that Donald Rumsfeld is actually a social liberal who's life is committed to ending war and restriction of handguns, not to mention peaceful diplomacy.

http://www.fourthchurch.org/missionstatement.html
http://www.fourthchurch.org/mission.html
http://www.fourthchurch.org/fourthforum.html

Do you still believe jumping to conclusions about a person based on their church is correct? If so, you must also believe that, while Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld consistently acted against everything he believes in.

What you CLUELESS Christ-HATING liberals (who once every four years go up in your attics and put on your Halloween Priest and nun costumes to appear 'religious' lol!) don't seem to be getting...

Is that for REAL Christians (and Barack has publicly declared himself a DEVOUT Christian) the relationship btw a Pastor and his congregant is VERY DEEP and VERY important.

You can mock this. You can pretend it's not true, but the MILLIONS OF REAL CHRISTIANS who otherwise might have considered Barack because of his likeability factor are GONNA RUN AS FAR AWAY FROM THIS MAN AS POSSIBLE.

Now way, a man who of his OWN free will and volition sat under this MINISTRY OF HATRED POISON AND VENOM for twenty years and DRAGGED his CHILDREN into this church will be accepted by REAL Christians.

We know what the real deal is.

This makes Barack UTTERLY radiocative in a political sense.

And, even if he went to Wright's home tonight and MURDERED him (like the Clinton's do to their political baggage lol!) it's WAY too late.

I wouldn't let my kids stay in a church like that for TWENTY minutes, much less twenty YEARS.

And for all of you dems defending this man's vitrolic hatred and hoping to convince white voters that he has a point.

All I can say is...

Preach on my brother...

Preach on....

Big Daddy

Ps LOL!!!!!

What you CLUELESS Christ-HATING liberals (who once every four years go up in your attics and put on your Halloween Priest and nun costumes to appear 'religious' lol!) don't seem to be getting...

Is that for REAL Christians (and Barack has publicly declared himself a DEVOUT Christian) the relationship btw a Pastor and his congregant is VERY DEEP and VERY important.

You can mock this. You can pretend it's not true, but the MILLIONS OF REAL CHRISTIANS who otherwise might have considered Barack because of his likeability factor are GONNA RUN AS FAR AWAY FROM THIS MAN AS POSSIBLE.

Now way, a man who of his OWN free will and volition sat under this MINISTRY OF HATRED POISON AND VENOM for twenty years and DRAGGED his CHILDREN into this church will be accepted by REAL Christians.

We know what the real deal is.

This makes Barack UTTERLY radiocative in a political sense.

And, even if he went to Wright's home tonight and MURDERED him (like the Clinton's do to their political baggage lol!) it's WAY too late.

I wouldn't let my kids stay in a church like that for TWENTY minutes, much less twenty YEARS.

And for all of you dems defending this man's vitrolic hatred and hoping to convince white voters that he has a point.

All I can say is...

Preach on my brother...

Preach on....

Big Daddy

Ps LOL!!!!!

"separatist black nationalism"

Where are you getting this from. Rev. Wright is not a separatist black nationalist! Making stupid comments does not make you a black nationalist. He has never called for black people in America to separate themselves from society. Many people of all ethnicities and "races" attend TUCC every Sunday.

Marc, I'm disappointed that you would write such an ignorant statement based off a few short video clips.

With respect to the post regarding Donald Rumsfeld--I doubt anyone would be suprised to find that many unscrupulous and unethical ("bad") people are quite happy being members of ethical and upstanding ("good") churches.

With respect to Obama, on the other hand, one wonders why a "good" person would intentionally choose to patronize a "bad" church. His campaign is supposed to be based upon the premises of change and unity, not on divisiveness or on concepts like racial mistrust and hatred.

I personally could not in good conscience attend a church led such a person as Wright, nor would I, implicitly or explicitly, support or encourage a person in a position of authority and influence whose primary purpose is to spread views and beliefs that are so fundamentally at odds with my own. It would seem to me that it is very difficult to argue that doing otherwise is not hypocritical.

I really want to believe that Obama has higher standards and a wider vision than past black presidential candidates, such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, but his long affiliation with Wright's church forces me to question that belief.

Today, the operative phrase on cable news is some
version of.."Rev. Wright has preached his last
sermon".
My question is...Who allowed him to preach his
SECOND???

A female newscaster on MSNBC characterized Reverend Wright's words as being "unAmerican". I think Reverend Wright is a courageous American, exercising his right to free speech. For a white, non-Christian, his melodramatic rhetoric is not part of my cultural experience. But I think white Americans who think, "Oh my God, if I talked that heatedly, I would be in a crazed state of mind" just don't get it. Different cultural backgrounds talk with different levels of emotional expressiveness.

Reverend Wright's "blowback" theory has been stated elsewhere (see the book Blowback). Sure it's inflammatory. Factually, it's not accurate regarding 9/11--at least not directly. (Bin Laden wanted U.S. bases out of Saudi Arabia, that were there as a result of Saddam Hussein's invasion of neighboring Kuwait.) Our bombing Japan with the atom bomb was horrendous. Truman thought it would ultimately save more lives (our soldiers') than it decimated in Japanese civilian lives. Morally, this is a tough call. To characterize Palestine as being the victim of state terrorism (I assume he means by Israel) is an overstatement and clearly against the grain of our pro-Israel country. However, there is some truth in his characterization--if you are an innocent bystander who happens to live in Palestine. (Read the book The Lemon Tree to have a more balanced view of the Israel/Palestine conflict.)

It saddens me that the answer from the media and individuals to whom they give a platform is to shun people. Shun Wright. Shun Samantha Power. Shunning is not the answer! Shunning is part of the problem. Shunning is what has gotten us into the diplomatic no man's land with Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. Shunning is what has led us to locking up 1 out of 100 Americans--many of whom are incarcerated for victimless crimes (e.g., drug use and prostitution).

People need to hear Reverend Wright's message--not shun him. Hear the parts that are truth. Our country uses violence to "solve" problems too much. Treating people as inferiors based on the color of their skin is unjust. Not having been a black person subjected to racial bigotry is an experience that Hillary (or I) cannot fully appreciate--as much as we try to.

The truth is also that white people get scared when they hear what sounds like an angry black leader. Part of Obama's appeal is that he seems to be the antithesis of the angry black man. I think Obama is wonderful for many, many reasons. But, man, does he have to walk a fine line in this neurotic, post-slavery society! I pray that he will become our next president, but I won't be surprised if our country is not ready. I remember reading a blog from someone in Ohio indicating there was fear that a black president would be too partial to black people. Us versus them mentality. Sad!!!

I just saw Rev Wright interviewed followed by Obama. Devastating. Just devastating. Hillary must be drinking the expensive stuff tonight.

I'm just amazed at how many continue to make this a black-white issue. Real truths need no defense. Here are some to ponder. 1. Most if not all folks blogging on here can not possibly relate to the plight of African Americans because, African Americans have not had to plight for 50 years. The last three generations of african americans have had the same and in some cases more available opportunity than whites. 2.When a culture continues to ask for retribution for sins affecting their great grandfathers and before--its a crutch. 3. Another truth--Rev Wright hates America and what it stands for---please try to show me and everyone else otherwise. If you are quoted as saying "God Damn America" and you are a religious man--you mean it! It isn't just your style coming out. If Obama choses this man as his mentor--it is ok. BUT, he can not and will not be President of this great country. Lets face it, Presidents come from high end stock--they truly walk the middle path and for the most part truly are not extremists nor have ever associated with such. Obama, as much as he trys to be political can not refrain from showing his true colors--that is--he feels sorry for himself and other black americans because the big bad white folks, between 50 and 200 years ago were bigoted. Get over it. It is 2008, and most of the African Americans I associate with are living high on the hog and have never experienced hate--except that which is shared between all human beings--lets face it, we all have it once in a while for others or our own kind. This country IS NOT going to vote for Barack Obama for President this time around just like they are NOT voting for Romney--any association with religious extremism is unfavorable--period. Has nothing to do with being black--purple or whatever. So stop throwing the race card. Go find a life, it is waiting for you--just show enough initiative to take it!

Hey, let's face it; politics is a brutal endeavor. Poor Obama is dead in the water,and I seriously doubt that he'll be able to hold his senate seat in a few years. Oh well.

Enough already! these people who want to free the blacks area a little late . Lincoln signed the emancipation proclamation over 150 years ago . Hundreds of thousand of white Americans died in the struggle to free the slaves.
Slavery did not start with white America but it ended because of White America. The Quaker Religion and the Republican party can be credited with the abolition of slavery. Slavery could not have existed in America or anywhere else had not the African Blacks sold their brethren.
Slavery for Today's Blacks comes through the welfare state which the poverty pimps and left wing Democrats use to keep themselves in power. The agenda of The leftist liberation Theology is to make all of us slaves by turning America into one big plantation. Obama promises change, so did Marx Lenin, Hitler, Mussolini,and Castro. Or we could all wind up in Hillary's Village.
Does anybody believe that Obama sat and Listen to "liberation Theology" hate speeches for 20 years that he does not agree with.
Before WW2 Hitler convinced Germany that wealthy Jews were the cause of their problems. The speeches of REV Wright are perfect parallels of Hitlers speeches. Hitler was elected to bring about change in Germany. What kind of Change will Obama give us?

Could someone be specific about how Jerry Falwell and Pat Robinson are as nutty as the REV Wright?

I have never heard anything like Wright's sermon from either of them?

everyone has felt the changes for the last 50 years.unfortunately the msm,and all the n.a.a.c.p personal are still altering for changes.no minority from the black comunity will ever own up to the disgraceful diligentcy the leaders al sharpton,jesse jackson,and now a new member the rev. wright.they keep saying the white man is the devil and yet,what minoeity spews more hhate speeches,does more damage,hurts more people,and gets more msm protection?no not the white man.chump change you want to live with!

everyone has felt the changes for the last 50 years.unfortunately the msm,and all the n.a.a.c.p personal are still altering for changes.no minority from the black comunity will ever own up to the disgraceful diligentcy the leaders al sharpton,jesse jackson,and now a new member the rev. wright.they keep saying the white man is the devil and yet,what minority spews more hhate speeches,does more damage,hurts more people,and gets more msm protection?no not the white man.chump change you want to live with!

everyone has felt the changes for the last 50 years.unfortunately the msm,and all the n.a.a.c.p personal are still altering for changes.no minority from the black comunity will ever own up to the disgraceful diligentcy the leaders al sharpton,jesse jackson,and now a new member the rev. wright.they keep saying the white man is the devil and yet,what minority spews more hate speeches,does more damage,hurts more people,and gets more msm protection?no not the white man.chump change you want to live with!


Finally we are getting to know who Senator Obama is...tell me who you walk with and I'll tell you who you are...scary!


Finally we are getting to know who Senator Obama is...tell me who you walk with and I'll tell you who you are...scary!

when don imus made a racisl remark the entire nation ralied against him,when the duke lacross boys were accused of rape the entire news media and black comunity ralied to accuse without a fair hearing!now,a black minister makes racial deflamitory remarks about white people and denouncincing our nation and accussing people of crimes not yet proven because they can make it a white issue and get a pass for it.for the young people who have not yet pulled there heads out from the back of the cave south of the body,this has been going on for the last 50 years!!duh!!

The Reverend Wright is a nut case. He has accused the US government of intentionally giving black people aids. Good thinking, take a group with a high rate of welfare use and give the government a health crisis to pay for. How about the hundred of thousands of black people who work for the government? Maybe say something? How do you stop a virus from attacking white people like these white folks sons and daughters?
It is just stupid! Folks white or black who would listen to or defend a boob like this guy sure do not need to run a country!
I find it strange that the Reverend could not help himself from cashing in by selling his tapes He had to know that his nephew was going to catch hell. He will now sell a ton of tapes and will come out of this rich! Ha Ha Ha

The Reverend Wright is a nut case. He has accused the US government of intentionally giving black people aids. Good thinking, take a group with a high rate of welfare use and give the government a health crisis to pay for. How about the hundred of thousands of black people who work for the government? Maybe say something? How do you stop a virus from attacking white people like these white folks sons and daughters?
It is just stupid! Folks white or black who would listen to or defend a boob like this guy sure do not need to run a country!
I find it strange that the Reverend could not help himself from cashing in by selling his tapes He had to know that his nephew was going to catch hell. He will now sell a ton of tapes and will come out of this rich! Ha Ha Ha

The Reverend Wright is a nut case. He has accused the US government of intentionally giving black people aids. Good thinking, take a group with a high rate of welfare use and give the government a health crisis to pay for. How about the hundred of thousands of black people who work for the government? Maybe say something? How do you stop a virus from attacking white people like these white folks sons and daughters?
It is just stupid! Folks white or black who would listen to or defend a boob like this guy sure do not need to run a country!
I find it strange that the Reverend could not help himself from cashing in by selling his tapes He had to know that his nephew was going to catch hell. He will now sell a ton of tapes and will come out of this rich! Ha Ha Ha

The Reverend Wright is a nut case. He has accused the US government of intentionally giving black people aids. Good thinking, take a group with a high rate of welfare use and give the government a health crisis to pay for. How about the hundred of thousands of black people who work for the government? Maybe say something? How do you stop a virus from attacking white people like these white folks sons and daughters?
It is just stupid! Folks white or black who would listen to or defend a boob like this guy sure do not need to run a country!
I find it strange that the Reverend could not help himself from cashing in by selling his tapes He had to know that his nephew was going to catch hell. He will now sell a ton of tapes and will come out of this rich! Ha Ha Ha

Robert, Rev Wright is not a nutcase. Instead of throwing rocks at your target, why not view his history before judging? Did you know that he had served in the armed forces from 1961-1967?

Reverend Wright's admirable service history:
In 1959 Wright enrolled at Virginia Union University, in Richmond, where he remained until 1961. That year he left school to join the military. He served in the Second Marine Division of the U.S. Marine Corps from 1961 to 1963, achieving the rank of private first class. In 1963 he graduated as valedictorian from the Great Lakes Naval Training Center, and from 1964 to 1967, he served as a cardio pulmonary technician at the U.S. Naval Hospital in Bethesda, Maryland. During 1965 and 1966, he was awarded with three Presidential Commendations from President Lyndon B. Johnson.

How many of you rock-throwers are going to denounce Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson for their anti-American statements after 9-11? Charles Toler, this is for you: "What we saw on Tuesday, as terrible as it is, could be miniscule if, in fact, God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve." According to them, our nation deserved all those American deaths because we weren't moral enough.

The truth or untruth of Rev Wright statements is irrelevant. I call him "Rev" because I have known so many AA "Reverends" that the shorter version is more appropriate--the AA version of protestant religion is still relatively backward, still very rooted to the crude culture of the rural deep South where both whites and blacks practice religion in a very simplistic manner. The style is the problem. Obama himself not the problem---what will keep him from being elected in the general election is that the swing vote, generally moderates, are not going to want angry black people in their White House (now ain't that ironic). They won't want to see Reverend Wright and a bunch of emotional trash-talkers walking the corridors for many years and they sure don't want the First Lady, who already is suspected of anti-mainstream americanism, saying and doing things that are going to insult or damage the American image. Obama himself has "moderate-style class", we now know or at least deeply suspect his friends (not through any fault of Obama's) and possibly his wife of not having a moderate lifestyle mentality. All the words of Obama are meaningless...he cannot divest himself of the company he has, mostly by force of necessity, kept. Maybe it will be easier for the next generation of AA's. Obama has come close and proven that AA's leaders don't have to be demagouges, but if they want to share the fruits of Middle America, they have to act like true middle americans themselves.

"I don't care how many "good" things a person has to say. When their "evil" finally shows through, it's time to stay away permanently."

I read this post from a person that was clearly against Obama, and I have one question.

Does that mean that you have no respect for every white man that lived during Jim crowe?

because by your logic if someone sits idly by as wrongs are being commited, or evil is being spread, they are just as gulty as those who commited the injustices. correct?