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The Score Card

16 Apr 2008 10:01 pm

Keeping the score card, there's no way Obama could fared worse. Nearly 45 minutes of relentless political scrutiny from the ABC anchors and from Hillary Clinton, followed by an issues-and-answers session in which his anger carried over and sort of neutered him. But Hillary Clinton has a Reverse-Teflon problem: her negatives are up, and when she's perceived as the attacker, the attacks never seem to settle on Obama and always seem to boomerang back on her. So it would be unwise to declare that Hillary "won" the debate in the dynamic sense just yet. (How much money will Obama raise off this debate? $3m million? $4 million?)

A lot of stuff that Obama doesn't Pennsylvanians to think about were the subject of fairly detailed questions. Obama's supporters are already blaming the "establishment" -- that is, the powerful institution of the mainstream media -- for the tone of the debate. This sets up a blowback scenario wherein his supporters will rally to his defense and lash out at the media very loudly. But Obama's going to be the next president of the United States, maybe. The most powerful person in the world. And questions about his personal associations, his character, his personal beliefs, his statements at private fundraisers -- the answers to these questions tell us a lot. Sometimes the questions are unfair (( -- nothing about Colombia and Mark Penn -- )), but this ain't Pop Warner; the artificial distinction between politics, personality and policy doesn't exist in this league, and if you're uncomfortable with it, then change the rules or don't run for office.

But let's stipulate, for a moment and for the sake of argument only, that the ABC moderators were tone-deaf: that doesn't excuse Obama's performance. (If you think the MSM is ornery, wait until president Obama confronts Congress!) Obama's supporters like to see him fight back against the Man... witness his quick response to "bittergate".....; tonight, it seemed as if he was surprised by the pace of the questions and all the air was gone from his answers. There was no fight. Unless you paid attention, you might have missed a few firsts: the first time the candidates debated gun control. The first time that Obama attacked Clinton about her husband's pardon. Obama's floating the idea that he would exempt workers who make between $97,000 and $200,000 from his payroll tax hike.

The introduction of ex-Weatherman William Ayers into the mainstream of the debate (wasn't that Sean Hannity's question). Tax pledges by Clinton and Obama. Insinuations by both Democrats that they would not accept the advice of generals and admirals who urged them to keep troops in Iraq. My guess is that the debate helps Clinton marginally in Pennsylvania ... and is a mixed bag outside of Pennsylvania... where many Dems will be troubled by Obama and his performance... and others troubled by the attacks against Obama and what they say about the media....

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Comments (371)

George Stephanpolous and Charlie Gibson acted like Iraqi Information Minister "Baghdad Bob".

Shame on ABC.

Shame on George Stephanpolous.

Shame on Charlie Gibson.

This was outrageous. They all need to apologize to all.

Do you know what, probably Charlie and George have flag pin tatooed on their as*es.

This is setting up to be the NH Edwards/Obama gang-up blowback in reverse. Remember how the moderators and the men ganged up on Clinton and then women rallied to Clinton. Clinton looked terrible and chastened in the debate because she was attacked viciously. But undecided voters in NH were horrified at her treatment and rallied to her defense. I now know how NH women thought that night. Obama will get a sympathy bounce.

Losers: All of us who watched this debate thinking it would be informative

I doubt anyone bothered watching the second half. Clinton was totally repulsive in the first half, I don't think she converted any undecideds.

The whole thing was a disgrace. Stephanopolous was Clinton PR hack, and he still is. But I never knew he was a Sean Hannity PR hack. "Charlie" Gibson should stick to GMA.

> The most powerful person in the world. And
> questions about his personal associations, his
> character, his personal beliefs, his
> statements at private fundraisers -- the
> answers to these questions tell us a lot.

Marc, give us an example of similar scrutiny given o McCain by media. Can you? Media licks McCain all over all the time. Doesn't it?

Great Night for Hillary. Obama just can't take the heat like she can. He will be destroyed by the republicans. He was just awful tonight.

I am very much for Obama, but he was bad tonight. Period. This can happen, and there is no reason to blame the journalists.
He had learned a lot since his first debate, but tonight, maybe he was tired or what, he was reeling.

He'll be better next time.

I wouldn't be surprised if Obama garners a sympathy bounce from tonight's debacle, er, debate, much like Clinton received in New Hampshire. Everyone in America is sick of the Washington press corps, and this can only redound to his benefit.

No matter who any of us support, any defense of this disgusting performance on the MSM's part - no matter which candidate it may have been launched against - is flat out wrong. There are NO standards anymore for media, and no ethics. I agree that any "presumptive nominee" should be prepared to take questions, but to ask him about attenuated relationships and to boldly question his patriotism based on ridiculous attacks by racists is giving credit where it should never be due. Have some standards, Marc - you just went down a few notches in my book.

This has to be the most BS debate I've ever seen. It was absolutely wretched. And, you're damn skippy I've emailed and called ABC on this farce. And, it was indeed, a farce.

Guys, chill out. ABC is responding to the voters. Didn't you see that 81%-wrong-track poll? The top issues concerning voters were, if I recall correctly:

Bitterness
Bosnia in 1995
Affirmative action
60's radicals and their influence on our culture

Stop blaming reporters, people!

It was Gerorge Steph and Sean Hannity ganging up on Obama on behalf of Hillary.

They all showed true their true colors.

I think you may be a bit tone-deaf about the reaction to this debate Marc (who I really respect and generally agree with). I have a feeling that this will come off much worse for ABC than anyone else. Just a guess, but I think that this was beyond what should be expected from the MSM or anyone else - as your own Sean Hannity comment indicates. This was a pitiful display of "journalism" and an even more pitiful example of a "debate."

It's telling even the Obamabots admit he had a bad night. They've just come up with a reason why it's really not his fault.

Two things...
Obama seems to have taken a step back in his debating style with the long layoff. He's right back to his early jittery performances that leave him pausing a lot, losing the substance of his words. Voters wanted a strong and form rebuttal to the Rev. Wright and SanFran remarks controversy, not stuttering and casual ramblings.

But Hillary always loses when she attacks. She seemed over-the-top in her oppo and could be viewed by cynics as only helping McCain win.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

I missed the first part where the moderators asked, so I read, about frickin' flag pins and some Weather underground old guy and ....? What the heck? How about health care guys? Global warming? Iraq? Hello?!

I think if Obama kept his cool and made some points along the way then he did just fine, given the pathetic, sub-Fox level of this line of questioning.

I don't think Obama was that bad tonight considering the gang-up against him. He didn't look like he was hard-charging but who would be? The loser was the media. And the winner was McCain.

Elrod ... my thoughts exactly. Maybe I am trying to make myself feel better but this felt exactly like the CLinton pile-on felt before NH. This and Bittergate give a big whiff of "media attacking Obama:

I doubt that you can find many precedents where any candidate was attacked so viciously in a debate by both the opponent AND the moderators. And I doubt that you can find any candidate, ever, who was able to look good in the face of those kind of attacks. The most gifted politician/orator/debater in the history of western civilization couldn't have emerged unscathed from such a vicious mugging.

Talk about blaming the victim; you are a disgusting pig who is, like most of the media, obviously in the tank for McCain. Well enjoy the wreck that McCain will make of this country, fat boy.

Stephanpolus and Gibson acted like a pimps for Clinton Inc. Shame on them.

NO! BAD MEDIA!

Also the following is a circular argument : we have to talk about this trivial fluff because we're going to keep talking about trivial-fluff! That's stupid beyond the ability of mere words to express.

Actually, I think this debate might be very, very good for Obama. He was the only person on TV tonight not willing to play this ridiculous gotcha game. When he had the chance to go after Hillary on Bosnia he chided the moderators for being so trivial instead. If people are tired of this kind of media driven crap and wanting to hear about real issues, that stands out.

ABC doesn't know it, but they just did Obama a huge favor by being so flagrantly biased against him.

Obama looked Presidential and mature. The moderators and Hillary looked like petty scolds.

I am a hardcore Obama supporter and I am delighted that ABC and HIllary totally overplayed their hands.

Marc, give us an example of similar scrutiny given o McCain by media. Can you?

Given the heavy advantages for the Democrats this cycle, it may be inevitable, and perhaps even appropriate, that Obama face heavier scrutiny than John McCain. Media people are only human, after all, and understandably focus more on the person who the better chance at becoming president. In many ways, the Democratic race feels like the general election. And at any rate, media scrutiny of Hillary Clinton has been absolutely ferocious for many months. If you can't take the heat...

But Hillary always loses when she attacks.

Nonsense. Her withering attack on Obama during Naftagate certainly helped her in Ohio, Rhode Island, and Texas. You're seeing this election through your own Obama-colored glasses. But working class folks in Bitterville, USA like a fighter.

Complete hatchet job -- and shameful of you, Marc, to suggest anything otherwise.

ABC did an excellent job running the debate tonight.

I was shocked at Hillary's performance - I thought for sure she would come out with the claws tonight. But the woman actually came across as - dare I say? - sincere and presidential.

Barack stumbled all over the place. He's living in a fantasy world if he thinks the Republicans will be nice to him. It was like he was shocked he was getting hard questions. It's probably the same distorted view he has about getting everyone to want to work together with him in harmony if president. There will be times when he'll need to be tough if president and tonight he floundered.

Not to give too many compliments to Clinton. But tonight was a debate where specifics and a showing of each candidates' understanding - and not just general rhetoric - was seeked by ABC. On this front Clinton could show she is more knowledgable on the issues and her plans. It's a fact.

Obama came off as a decent guy with good intentions who doesn't know much.

What did I miss? I don't think Obama performed nearly as terribly as Marc appears to be convinced that he did — the entire debate, he was the only one even remotely attempting to rise above the petty, ridiculous politics that the public abhors. He wasn't fully able to escape it considering he was facing a full-on assault from every single person on the stage tonight, plus Sean Hannity and John McCain in absentia, but he certainly did as best he could. Neither Senator Clinton nor ABC could have possibly looked worse in this debate, and I think that's going to be borne out in the next few days.

who I really respect and generally agree with

Oh come off it. Fat boy obviously wants McCain to win so bad he can taste it. Which is a particulary apt way to put it considering how far Ambinder's tongue is up McCain's ass

I'm with Ed: what I'm getting (having followed online; I don't have a tv) is fury at ABC and their incredibly low opinion of us. The audience booed the moderators.

Halperin gave both Bs--no major slip ups. No one is arguing that Obama was brilliant. But I think the big story out of this debate will be "Do they really think we're a bunch of morons?"

Most people will recognize that was a shameful display ABC. Alot of Dems will be put off by Clinton's attacks. As usual the MSM (oh, and bloggers like you) will sputter about how much this is going to hurt Obama. Nothing much will change from tonight.

This was a drive-by, not a debate. It was not Clinton vs. Obama, but ABC (Stephanopolous) versus Obama. A complaint should be filed with the FCC.

"if you're uncomfortable with it, then change the rules or don't run for office."

Obama's trying to change the rules, Marc. That's one of the reasons i'm voting for him.

Marc, the two MSNBC debates were complete hit jobs against Hillary, the most recent of which was so bad, SNL parodied it. (The previous week's debate on CNN was, I thought, more fair.)

The point is, like you said, tough questions are going to come, and it shouldn't all be on one side. To this point, I believe it has been.

So, it's only fitting that the score be evened at a point when Obama is the clear frontrunner with a 95 percent plus chance of winning the nomination. I think this has been one of the fairest debates yet.

I would encourage Obama supporters to try to climb out of their fanaticism for just a few moments, and try to look at all this fairly. You can't hoot when Hillary gets socked, and cry when Obama does. It's just hypocritical and babyish. If the guy can't take a shot, better to find it out now.

While George went on right-wing TV and radio to get hit topics about Obama and shelled him for an hour, it doesn't matter. The game is over and no one can knock him out.

Frankly I don't care how either of them fared in this debate, because the entire thing focused on meaningless trivia rather than on anything that matters.

"Sue" said it the best

"I would encourage Obama supporters to try to climb out of their fanaticism for just a few moments, and try to look at all this fairly. You can't hoot when Hillary gets socked, and cry when Obama does. It's just hypocritical and babyish. If the guy can't take a shot, better to find it out now."

I wonder how many people actually watched this debate. I consider myself a political junkie but just couldn't stomach watching it, so I jumped around live-blogging sites and that told me enough. The debate seems to have revealed much more about the need for Steph and Gibson to one-up Matthews and Russert, in the usual mine is bigger than yours way. Even if Obama stumbled around, I think he will get some sympathy out this. But more importantly, I think most people, including many upcoming voters are tuned out. I also find it disgusting that no questions were asked about what is relevant to Pennsylvanians, like jobs and education etc, that's a total insult!!! So this will be a pundit fest of proclamations and overstatement that won't affect much in the end.

And questions about his personal associations, his character, his personal beliefs, his statements at private fundraisers -- the answers to these questions tell us a lot.

You are obsessed with worthless trivialities.

You don't care about America.

It's a 90-minute debate that will be remembered far longer for the poor performance of ABC and the Clinton attacks than anything else. It's not a game-changer, which is what she needed.

Look for more superdelegate endorsements of Obama as the memory of this wasted debate fades.

i see this as obama having a not great night, so clinton supporters jump to the victor position while obama supporters start a week of downplaying expectations.

was the debate presented well? no. this was hackery barely better than the nights of 10,000 republicans from early in the primary season. it should not take an hour and three commercial breaks to get to an actual issue

my question: will SNL just run the same debate sketch from earlier this year on media bias, stopping just to flip the candidate's roles?

Love it how Obama tried to bamboozled the Ayers question. He said he was 8 when Ayers bombed New York. Nice try Obama. You were 30something when you worked for him at the Woods Project. You as an adult made the decision to work for a terrorist and still says his "friendly" with him. This is a disgrace, a possible nominee who worked for a terrorist. SHAME on you Barack Obama.

Obama raised $10 from me, and I would bet that ABC got at least 200,000 people like me to donate.

i'm just visiting. first time here. who is fat boy?

http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?city=Burbank&st=CA&last=Iger&first=Robert

i mean, the CEO of ABC has donated money to hillary several times. i wonder if that explains tonight.

http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?city=Burbank&st=CA&last=Iger&first=Robert

i mean, the CEO of ABC has donated money to hillary several times. i wonder if that explains tonight.

For those arguing that this is just Obama's turn to go through what Hillary has in these debates, that's ludicrous (and this goes for you too Marc). In what debate was Hillary asked, in the same night, about Whitewater, Monica, Travel-gate, Billing records-gate, and Vince Foster's suicide (with the unjustifiable implication being that she's lied all along and pulled the trigger herself) all consecutively? That's what Obama got tonight. He essentially was in a debate moderated by Sean Hannity. In NO debate was Hillary hit with those particular types of issues.

What a joke of a "debate". Completely and totally worthless. ABC should be ashamed of themselves. They should be. But they won't be.

Democrats NEED Clinton to stay in the race. OBAMA IS UNELECTABLE IN GENERAL ELECTION. NYT-

Reuters-Obama’s Support Softens in Poll, Suggesting a Peak Has Passed.

AP-52 % will not vote for Obama after Wright speech
Obama drops 11 pts on electability
Mainstream media needs to stop pushing Obama down voter’s throats and stop the stupid Clinton bashing. Where’s a true journalist? Obamas campaign pastor is not going away anytime soon Rev Wright says you don't have to wait for the afterlife for the mansion on the hilltop, he’s right! To shut him up Trinity United Church of Christ is building Rev. Wright a $1 mil house on a lot that was purchased for $345,000. According to his federal income tax return Obama gave the Trinity United church $22,500 in contributions. CBS Chicago has strangely not released video they have of Obama at Trinity United Church of Christ Service with Pastor Wright. According to a Chicago Tribune article, at the Service Obama spoke to the cheering congregation and the choir sang, “Hallelujah Barack”. After the service Wright and Obama sat together, laughing , talking and signing books. if ANY other candidate had this controversy swirling the footage would have found it’s way to the national and cable news networks by now! Obama who marched with Farrakhan Also Wright is OPRAHS Pastor; Slurs Italians in Latest Magazine (CNSNews.com) Wright continues his Obama supported attacks on non-blacks now slurring Italians in issue of Trumpet Newsmag. Wright states, Jesus enemies had their opinion, Italians looked down their garlic noses at the Galileans, and Jesus death on a cross was a public lynching Italian style! This government runs everything from the White House to the schoolhouse, from the Capitol to the KKKlan of white supremacy who is clearly in charge. Every issue published Wright's rant against white people in which he covers a world that is controlled by white supremacy, a country that’s on its way to h*ll in a hand basket because of lying politicians, in a culture that still thinks 'white is right!

He said young African-American Christians are more concerned about 'bling bling' than about freeing their minds and still Obama says I could no more disown him than I could disown the black community. Trumpet Newsmagazine started 80s, Wright is CEO and Wright's daughter, Jeri Wright, is the publisher. Requests for comments Obama camp of course not answered. Trumpet Nov/Dec edition, featured Louis Farrakhan, recipient of the Lifetime Achievement "Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Trumpeter" award. Farrakhan has called Judaism a "gutter religion" and said Jews are "bloodsuckers. Many of the biased cable news pundits try to make viewers believe Obama's speech limited damage of Wright controversy, but the general election will show voters strongly disagree, especially non-black voters. Obama refuses to explain to the public why he would have someone as such a close spiritual advisor and mentor and why he would expose two young daughters to such hatefulness against fellow Americans. The problem Wright's comments are not theological views, but political statements. This is a serious issue for Obama in general election. As with each new utterance on the topic of Reverend Wright, Barack Obama confirms his own moral obliviousness and he seems to have disdain for those who are troubled by his own unwillingness to break with Wright, even worse Obama still insists Wright is a brilliant man, So brilliant, apparently, that he has uncovered the plot by white America to kill African Americans, so insightful to perceive the 9/11 attacks caused by American terrorism and his discerning observation Israel is a “dirty” word, and still in Obama’s eyes, Wright is brilliant. This, we are told by biased cable news pundits like CNN Obamaphiles, is not supposed to affect voters’ view of Obama’s judgment. Perhaps voters are embarrassed to tell pollsters they are privately offended. General election Republicans as well as independents and democrats are irked by this moral obtuseness even though media like CNN or Hardball cover it up with bogus Clinton attacks.

What a joke of a "debate". Completely and totally worthless. ABC should be ashamed of themselves. They should be. But they won't be.

Unless one of the candidates took a dump on the floor, the debate is meaningless in the race. It's the 800th debate and nobody cares by now except hardcore political junkies and nerdy bloggers.

"Mark Halperin’s overall grades: Obama B+, Clinton B."

Even Halperin has more sense than Ambinder. Never thought I'd see THAT day. Ambinder is about as sad as ABC "News".

BluePearl,

You ever see a picture of Ambinder?

Normally I wouldn't stoop to such an insult*, but the incredible medicious dishonesty of this post really got to me.

*as people who read my comments on Yglesias' blog know, I often say far worse; it's just that I normally insult people based on their appalling views, rather than on physical characteristics.

Hillary is sad for my people.

sorry about posting twice, i accidentally doubleclicked!

Obama did great under those nasty questions

Even though Obama had the three barking dogs hounding him, he gave very good performance. He was steady, consistent and solid. Obama will be up in polls after this debate.

Marc, what a pathetic attempt to justify this POS debate! But then again, you've never been more than a "gotcha" pundit yourself.

Hillary is sad for my people.

I am not going to make any excuses for Obama. One night....one off comment does not a campaign make. He has turned the world upside down and shown the establishment that he can win on the money we provide. He has the the money, the numbers and supporters and he is going to win. And he is pissing off all the right people.

Peace and keep the faith.

FUCK YOU Marc, for defending the cock-gobbling SHITCAPADE of Stephanopoulos and Gibson. This wasn't a debate, this was a vaudeville show.

FUCK YOU for defending this and having the GALL to suggest Obama OR Clinton deserved this bullshit.

FUCK YOU

FUCK YOU

FUCK YOU

FUCK YOU UNTIL YOUR ANUS BLEEDS AMBINDER

couldn't we just have them play a few rounds of wii sports bowling for the first hour next time? i would enjoy that more than what went down tonight.

ABC was absolutely shameful. You want to know why the government doesn't function -- if this is any example -- look at the media.

I think it's important to remind everyone that Marc Ambinder who once worked for ABC News is hardly an objective party here regarding the conduct of his debate.

In fact he and the other notable spawn of ABC's The Note, Mark Halperin, have been breathless in their anti-Obamaism over the course of this campaign.

So when Marc Ambinder tells us that Obama could not have had a worse night remember where Ambinder's history and loyalties lie. Guess what? They don't lie with the truth.

I've been observing ABC News for a long time. They started the Wright feeding frenzy. They are the only news organization that reports the popular vote with MI and FL included and does not bother to say so. Stephanopolis's roundtable on Sunday's is an anti-obama orgy.

The real story out of this debate. Why does the House of Mouse Disney Corporation hate Barack Obama?

I hope people realize that this is not about Stephapolis or Gibson. This is about a corporation, Disney, that is hell-bent on bringing down Barack Obama because he challenges a staus quo that rewards corporate greed.

I just think the "elite" pundits are once again out of touch...no normal person watching this debate would seem to think Obama in any way lost.

Sure the questions were stacked against him...but that wasn't his fault...and he held up very well.

And I wonder if anyone will call Hillary for yet another lie about her Bosnia lie?

That was a Kennedy/Nixon Debate and Hillary rocked the world - very informed, intelligent,
paced, warm but firm and strong in her answers.
She did women proud tonight in a culture that is long overdue for a powerful woman. She was Presidential and he looked like the rookie that he is who is able to turn a phrase in this American Idol Generation.
It was also refreshing to see a fair debate that didn't play into the Obama campaign.
Politics, Poetry and History - women should be proud.

During the closing of the debate the audience gave well deserved Boo's to George and Charlie. The HuffingtonPost has video of it.

What happened tonight is going to be like a basketball team losing when 4 of their starters are out. People may look at as a loss, but they'll see it for what it really is.

And most voters will give Obama credit for not reaching over the podium and ripping those asshole's hearts out, which i'm sure most people's instinct would have been.

Does anyone else think that it smells a bit funny to have a former Clinton campaign operative (Stephanopolous) asking questions of the nominees in tonite’s debate?

I really don't think Obama did that badly, but I'm sure glad others did! He did show flashes of personality traits I hate, and that rarely get mentioned: his defensiveness and anger when challenged. He always seems surprised when he gets a tough question. I guess he's not used to it. But he didn't act as cocky as he sometimes does ("I'm a pretty darn good politician"), so I guess that's a plus. He even showed moments of sweetness at times that I found endearing. He reminds me of George W Bush in his inability to hide his emotions -- when Hillary disses him, you see him visibly stiffen, and he can't seem to harness it properly. His jaw just locks and his eyes harden. When he attacks Hillary, she just smiles daggers back at him, which is pretty funny.

If he could keep these things in check -- especially the arrogance and holier-than-thou-ness -- I'd like him better. On the issues, he's pretty good, except I hate his RNC talking points on Social Security as a crisis. And all his talk about the "politics of distraction" is itself a distraction that allows him to evade difficult issues. That's a ruse worthy of any old-politics practitioner.

Obama fared poorly, but it seems more like he was just tired, and considering the stupidity of the MSM this past two months I have no trouble seeing why. And this "debate" was more of an Ambush than an actual Debate, I mean yeah lets just ignore the issues for the majority and focus on Bitter, Ayers and Wright, things which he's already retread a thousand times already and i'm certain he's tired of having to cover again and again. So yeah its clear he was exhausted menatally and emotionally at this point having to deal with issues that really are just media hatchet jobs than actual susbtance

I've watched every debate so far, and this was by far the worst. I've always thought the moderators were good journalists - til today. Who paid them? Clinton or McCain? Totally one-sided questions, and totally one-sided follow ups. And the questions were stupid, grade-school level, rumor and innuendo based questions. This is for the presidency! Ask something substantive for God's sake. ABC should be ashamed.

Nancy,

Clinton is setting back the cause of women and politics at least 150 years. Prior to the Monster's evil attempt to destroy the Democratic party, we almost certainly would have had the first woman president within the next 20 years. Now there is no way in hell that a woman will be elected president within my daughter's lifetime (she is 6 years old).

Never mind Hillary or Obama, this was the worst run of the 21 debates. George S. stated the most important issue to Americans is the economy. OK, then WHY did it take 60 minutes before it was brought up??!! I give both Charlie G. and George S. a big fat "F" for their moderating.

I do think it's pretty obvious that either ABC hates Obama or they love Hillary. I don't which it is, but attempts at being even remotely objective were never made by the moderators.


George Stephanopolous = Clinton Hack

Charlie Gibson = Moron

Well if the media was to soft on Obama they made up for it tonight with 45 consecutive minutes of basically beating him with a phone book while Hillary Clinton threw stones from afar. It was truly a pathetic excuse for a debate and I am never watching one that is on ABC again. Obama had a really rough night and so did Clinton. Tonights winner was John McCain and tonight loser was all the sorry saps who watched the thing.

As an undecided former Edwards supporter and near constant reader of this blog, I have only one thing to say: Some of the commenters here should be ashamed of yourselves for the vitriolic personal attacks against Marc. From my unaffiliated perspective, he does a very good job of putting things into the proper context and does so fairly.

I know that until and unless every post is titled, cyclically, "Fired Up, Ready to Go," "Yes We can" "Hope" and "Barack Obama--God or Prophet?" many on this board will refuse to accept a balanced viewpoint. That's fine, there are plenty of Obama kool-aid stands on the web. And you can even take on Marc substantively. But the personal attacks are below Obama and what he stands for.

"Ganging up", "will figure out what to say next time," "a set-up," "a disgrace"... Obama supporters seem to reject reason. Obama is more about a feeling, more about empty words, more about winning, and less about substance. He was asked reasonable questions about his past associations, past actions, and past statements. If he came off as bad, horrible, a disgrace, or whatever- that is because he is. Listen to what he says. Open up your eyes people. Pause for a moment. Do you want the President of the United States to have such a bad time in a debate? I don't like McCain either, but at least be reasonable. It was a good debate, and Clinton looked good. She's got talent- I'd be a little afraid if I was a Republican.

Seriously, Marc, could you be any more of a sack of shit for trying to DEFEND this FUCKJOB?!

It's clear Hillary has command of the issues and policies and Obama arrived at debate tonight like a slug crawling on a leaf. Face it, Obama never did have command of anything except "selling" his mythical message of change to his flock. Obama always looks uneasy when he is exposed and tonight he definitely was unprepared and looked like the "rookie" he is. I get a kick out of these posts from Obama supporters,acting indignant and furious, their Messiah coming off so weak. Hillary has withstood MONTHS of negative media coverage on her, while they have blatantly campaigned for Obama. Its about time you people wake up and understand Obama would not even be in this race HAD THE PRESS began vetting Obama BEFORE IOWA! Think about this,,.,had Wright tapes come out before IOWA, Obama would be back in his senate seat trying to gain the experience he never had to run for President in the first place! Obama is a political fraud and this was a great night.

Anyone else notice that it's almost always women in these comments defending Hillary? I didn't realize that having ovaries was a legitimate voting issue these days. "Women should be proud," Nancy? The rest of America, who aren't reverse sexists, should be ashamed. Incredibly ashamed that this is what American politics has become. I never really thought that Democrats would be voting because of someone's gender - that's usually a Republican tactic.

The real schmucks in this game are the uncommitted superdelegates. Six weeks ago it became obvious that prolonging the agony of this primary contest was going to be a bad thing for the Democratic Party. It's only going to get worse, and meanwhile McCain stands by, unscathed.

A story about Hillary csaying "Screw them" to Southern Working Class Whites in 1995 broke earlier in the evening.

This is a huge story. I am very surprised that Hillary's hacks George and Charlie did not ask her about her remarks.

Hillary Clinton was brilliant tonight. Barack Obama's rookie status in this primary was clearly visible. Anyone who still thinks he's presidential material is living in a fantasy world.

Hey everybody....bitching and complaining is great...but what will really work is to boycott Disney. Don't go to Disney World or buy their movies.

We Obama suppoers are strong in the 18-45 demographic that consumes media and has young kids to take to disney world.

So after we get the rage out of our system, make sure that you spread the word: Boycott Disney.

Finally someone had the guts to ask Obama about his relationship with Bill Ayers. His answer was lame, as a mater of fact he did not answer the question! I am a democrat, but unfortunately I must admit that he is not going to win the general election, period.

What? Now ABC may be in a “world of hurt” because the Obama-sycophants are not happy with their candidate’s performance?

Please. The questions were fair. Insipid? Yes. But fair.

Obama didn’t have a good night. He seemed so tired and not engaged.

I don’t like Obama - never have. Hillary is a liar, but she’s a good one.

John McCain and the Republican machine will eat Obama up.

Just watch. “Bittergate,” however overblown, is just the first of many “slip-ups” that will result with Obama’s foot in his mouth and a loss in November.

Superdelegates won’t have the stones to nominate Hillary.

Too bad…

I agree - Sue did say it best:

"I would encourage Obama supporters to try to climb out of their fanaticism for just a few moments, and try to look at all this fairly. You can't hoot when Hillary gets socked, and cry when Obama does. It's just hypocritical and babyish. If the guy can't take a shot, better to find it out now."

Im a long time Republican who is proud to have voted for Obama. Yet I'm dismayed at how quickly people with a clear bias for Obama can't step back and just admit he had a bad night. I mean what can you expect after 2+ weeks of terrible press for him? And where was the outrage when HRC got similar treatment? (which by my unscientific count has happened MANY more times)

Maybe there's truth to the types of people who are gravitating towards him...

ABC should be ashamed of itself. This was a horrible representation of what we, the citizens of this country deem important. Who is out of touch!!!!! I wasted two hours watching this pre=school approach to politics and I resent that you and your network think this is what I wanted to hear tonight.

I am going to bed, but I am sure Clinton's hate mongers are going to work overtime tonight!

Obama's like origami...

fly, but made of PAPER

but he's gripping the ball all the way to november. gold on for the ride, we have NO IDEA whats next with good old barack.

Tough night for Obamba, no doubt.

I don't want to put it all on the moderators but where were the Penn-Columbia questions?

Am I the only one who noticed that Hillary won't give Obama an inch on his "mangled" bitter statement but expected us all to just laugh off her Bosnia farce - even though she repeated it several times. And the version in her book is false as well.

Hillary didn't miss an opportunity to twist the knife in Obama - he, however, took the high road and did not attack.

Most of the TV Politico's will say this was good politics on her part. But - most voters will just ponder on what a bitch she is. She is just a turn off - especiall when she is in attack mode.

John McCain was the real winner tonight. Barack Obama will hang on to win the Democratic nomination, but the events of the past several weeks, beginning with that bigoted loudmouth Jerimiah Wright and culminating in tonight's debate, have now permanently knocked the shine off the "New Messiah". He is now a critically flawed candidate whom moderate and conservative Democrats will never vote for, simply because he's too weak and far too aligned with the radical left. "War Hero & All-American Boy" John McCain and the Republicans will box Obama's ears and take his lunch money in November.

What is everyone whining about here? Obama was asked some tough questions tonight because (he) has stirred up a lot of controversy in the media lately. He was given a chance to quell questions about what he said in SF ....and...to downplay the concerns about his lack of patriotism. I have wondered why he doesn't wear a flag pin, or put his hand over the heart while stating the pledge of allegiance. Hillary got grilled hard by the guy on the street about Bosnia. Obama also had some great answers. I agree that the content was too media issues focused and not pure issues. However the intent was also to get to know the candidates. The candidates were treated equally. Grow up Obama-ites and quit whining. I will definitely vote for Senator Clinton and am think she should be our next President. But I actually don't think Obama performed terribly tonight or that the media ganged up on him. Did I say quit whining yet Obama-bloggers?

Marc, give us an example of similar scrutiny given o McCain by media. Can you? Media licks McCain all over all the time. Doesn't it? Posted by gop | April 16, 2008 10:07 PM
It's a good question Marc. Why don't you explain that to us?

Stephanopolis interviews McCain tomorrow. Do you think he will ask him about his divorce? His wife's drug problem? His own "pastor problem"? Let's give McCain this level of scrutiny. Let's have Stephanopolis ask McCain why he told the North Vietnamese military secrets? It was an issue in 2000 after all.

Bruttal, just bruttal. I support Obama but he didn't look good tonight because he didnt see it coming. The questions were ruthless and an extreme example of a tough presidential debate, no were near the usual tone of general election debates. Hillary for all her complaining has never been attacked like that in a debate. What it all means who knows, its easy to make some one look bad if you have 3 parties in effect gaining up on 1 for the intended purpose of "vetting him". This is a good lesson for Obama, he was caught flat footed today and he payed for it.

The filthy slime that still support the Monster should be ashamed of yourselves - though obviously you are beyond shame. Whatever you may think of Obama, the Monster is absolutely indefensible.

Marc- were you watching the same debate. This was ABC news repeating republican talking points -- it was not a debate about what this election is about.

nothing illustrates more the rise of the net-roots and blogs than this debate.

You -- and the big media - are so far off base in trying to tease out the issues in this election that it is laughable.

You have missed the whole point - the power of Obama's campaign is that with the net-roots. bloggers- and young people who don't watch or read MSM- he has forged a new american coalition. And the reason is the collective disgust with just the behavior on display by the moderators in this debate.

I agree with those commentators who said this is like the Hillary pile-on by Chris Matthews in NH. I predict the debate will give Obama a 2 or 3 point bounce in PA-- because ABC and Hillary Clinton showed just how out of touch they truly are about the issues in ordinary pennsylvanians lives.

Just how well will it go down for Charlie to plead not to leave out those making 250,000 -- that is classic tin ear.

"FUCK YOU Marc, for defending the cock-gobbling SHITCAPADE of Stephanopoulos and Gibson. This wasn't a debate, this was a vaudeville show.

FUCK YOU for defending this and having the GALL to suggest Obama OR Clinton deserved this bullshit.

FUCK YOU

FUCK YOU

FUCK YOU

FUCK YOU UNTIL YOUR ANUS BLEEDS AMBINDER

Posted by Harrier | April 16, 2008 10:45 PM "
------------------------------------------------
For the love of God. Is this what defines Obama's supporters? Very scary...............

This debate was really a media lynching of a non-white man who is getting too uppity for their tastes. Or as the Clintons would say, Obama is getting too "elitist" for someone who is not white.

The lynch mob will get their comeuppance for this debacle of a debate.

Go Obama '08

I thought it was a great debate. It showed how well versed Clinton is on the "issues" he so urgently wants to stay focused on and how ur, um, uh....inebt he is at discussing the really tough questions. She looked very presidential tonight and he looked, well maybe well enough to keep his Chicago Senate seat! Great job ABC. You asked the tough questions and gave him ample time (more time than Hillary incidently to respond). He performed horribly. She did great. Pennsylvania do us proud and move her to the head of the class. Hillary has my vote.

No more watching ABC, going to Disney movies, etc. for at least a year for me.

This was atrocious.

All you Obama supporters can cry media foul all you want. (welcome to camp Hillary for the last few months) Welcome to the type of questioning Obama is likely to see in the general election. Butcher job, hatchet job by the moderators nothwithstanding, Obama could not handle the questions, he fumbeled his answers, he was edgy, and even cocky at times. The whole "I would meet with the Iranians and talk about their nuclear program" - he just sounds so niave. She wasn't spectacular either. I wish she would lay off the attacks - but that is her only hope now. If Obama wins, he'll have Hillary to thank for helping to make him a better candidate. But all of you people who refuse to acknowledge that Obama is not a perfect darling really need to wake up. The general won't be the cake walk it is now.

Holy Crap!

Holy Crap!

This was the worst of the worst. I'm an Obama supporter but man he sucked tonight. He got the shit beaten out of him by ABC. Clinton was just pure robot evil. She didn't look great, either, but she kept it together.

ABC should be taken out back and shot in the kneecaps with one of Annie Oakley Clinton's guns.

I will buy everyone a round of Crown Royal to celebrate.

Whatever you think of Stephanopolous, really, he barely got a word in, because Charlie Gibson is a blowhard. Obama held serve. And ABC had only a few seconds of news analysis afterwards, putting on an inane show afterwards. Biggest loser of the night, therefore, was ABC.

If you think the MSM is ornery, wait until president Obama confronts Congress!

Idiotic comparison of apples and oranges. Really, Ambinder has lost a lot of respect these last few days.

Obama got in a few jabs at Hillary, especially about Bill Clinton pardoning members of the Weather Underground. The audience was told not to clap. It seemed like the only claps were for Obama. I doubt anyone in the audience was impressed with Sean Hannity's questions. They have already heard it all and are tired of hearing it.

Hillary catty remarks made her look bad. The first sermon in my all white church after 9/11 said something similar to what Rev Wright said, although much more indirect. The pastor did it in the form of questions. His tone of voice was not loud, but he said some of the same things Wright said:

"Are we in some way responsible for what is happening in Iraq by the way we live our lifestyle? Is it our own desires for oil for our SUVs that caused the war to happen? Is it something about the way we live our life - that we haven't made our own life clean and pure yet that is somehow allowing a tyrant to be in control of people in Iraq because of the natural resources that are there? Tough questions for us, questions that are hard to get a handle on because we want to think we are doing things the right way, because we always want to think we are the good people. "

Wow, Obama gets the Clinton treatment for one night by the moderators and his fanbase wants everybody in the world fired for such injustice. As someone who has watched as shows like Countdown have become nothing short of Obama media HQ for the last 2 months, now you know how it feels when the media decides to treat your candidate with pin-spiked gloves.

What an awful debate.

Who cares who won? We all lost when questions about the important issues were barely asked so as to make time for Bosnia/Pastor Wright/Flag pins and other BS - not to mention a run-down of the black guys Obama knows. There was a nasty undercurrent of racism tonight and absolutely no substance.

I wasted an hour watching before I turned off.

So Obama actually gets serious questions and crumbles under pressure, and the Obama supporters whine about the media??? The media has blatantly tried to win the nomination for Obama since Iowa and even spoofs how ridiculously biased for Obama previous debates have been (see Saturday Night Live). Now, people want to know a few things about the man who wants to be President and his supporters flail and whine about how harsh his treatment is? Obama is a glorified state senator from Illinois who has accomplished amazingly little. All this talk about "hope" and "change" are typical political nonsense slogans that have no substance at all behind them--just like his campaign and positions. His association with Reverend Wright is despicable and even more so is the fact he wont fully distance himself from this guy who hates America. His comments about small-town Americans were shocking to Democrats and Republicans alike. Again, he did not apologize for it, and even tried to "restate" it. Could you imagine if Hillary or McCain said such a thing? Why should Obama get a free ride? Those were his OWN WORDS; it's not as if Hillary or the media contrived it. What Obama says and thinks behind closed doors is very suspect. This whole nomination has been an abomination. Hillary has won California, New York, Texas, Florida, Ohio, Michigan, (will win Pennsylvania), Massachusetts, New Jersey, Arizona. It reads as a list of the most populous states, and what kind of system would award someone who wins a bunch of small state caucuses (in red states mind you) over someone who wins the states Hillary won in real primaries similar to what will occur in the general election? The Democratic Party has been hijacked by Howard Dean and the left-wingers and are going to ruin their golden opportunity at the White House by nominating an aloof, unproven first term senator with sketchy associates and a track record of being the most liberal Senator in an effort to placate the left wing.

Amen Davis!

So Obama actually gets serious questions and crumbles under pressure, and the Obama supporters whine about the media??? The media has blatantly tried to win the nomination for Obama since Iowa and even spoofs how ridiculously biased for Obama previous debates have been (see Saturday Night Live). Now, people want to know a few things about the man who wants to be President and his supporters flail and whine about how harsh his treatment is? Obama is a glorified state senator from Illinois who has accomplished amazingly little. All this talk about "hope" and "change" are typical political nonsense slogans that have no substance at all behind them--just like his campaign and positions. His association with Reverend Wright is despicable and even more so is the fact he wont fully distance himself from this guy who hates America. His comments about small-town Americans were shocking to Democrats and Republicans alike. Again, he did not apologize for it, and even tried to "restate" it. Could you imagine if Hillary or McCain said such a thing? Why should Obama get a free ride? Those were his OWN WORDS; it's not as if Hillary or the media contrived it. What Obama says and thinks behind closed doors is very suspect. This whole nomination has been an abomination. Hillary has won California, New York, Texas, Florida, Ohio, Michigan, (will win Pennsylvania), Massachusetts, New Jersey, Arizona. It reads as a list of the most populous states, and what kind of system would award someone who wins a bunch of small state caucuses (in red states mind you) over someone who wins the states Hillary won in real primaries similar to what will occur in the general election? The Democratic Party has been hijacked by Howard Dean and the left-wingers and are going to ruin their golden opportunity at the White House by nominating an aloof, unproven first term senator with sketchy associates and a track record of being the most liberal Senator in an effort to placate the left wing.

So Obama actually gets serious questions and crumbles under pressure, and the Obama supporters whine about the media??? The media has blatantly tried to win the nomination for Obama since Iowa and even spoofs how ridiculously biased for Obama previous debates have been (see Saturday Night Live). Now, people want to know a few things about the man who wants to be President and his supporters flail and whine about how harsh his treatment is? Obama is a glorified state senator from Illinois who has accomplished amazingly little. All this talk about "hope" and "change" are typical political nonsense slogans that have no substance at all behind them--just like his campaign and positions. His association with Reverend Wright is despicable and even more so is the fact he wont fully distance himself from this guy who hates America. His comments about small-town Americans were shocking to Democrats and Republicans alike. Again, he did not apologize for it, and even tried to "restate" it. Could you imagine if Hillary or McCain said such a thing? Why should Obama get a free ride? Those were his OWN WORDS; it's not as if Hillary or the media contrived it. What Obama says and thinks behind closed doors is very suspect. This whole nomination has been an abomination. Hillary has won California, New York, Texas, Florida, Ohio, Michigan, (will win Pennsylvania), Massachusetts, New Jersey, Arizona. It reads as a list of the most populous states, and what kind of system would award someone who wins a bunch of small state caucuses (in red states mind you) over someone who wins the states Hillary won in real primaries similar to what will occur in the general election? The Democratic Party has been hijacked by Howard Dean and the left-wingers and are going to ruin their golden opportunity at the White House by nominating an aloof, unproven first term senator with sketchy associates and a track record of being the most liberal Senator in an effort to placate the left wing.

No rita,

It would make you a FOOL to think that any of these debates would be informative, when they haven't been in years.

Like I have said SINCE FOREVER, all Presidential debates should be SIMULCASTED ON C-SPAN AND PBS, with PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIANS and COLLEGE PROFESSORS serving as the moderators.

Anybody can ask a freaking question.

Haven't visited this place before but used to respect the Atlantic for its quality. Who let this illiterate MarcAmbinder have a blog under the Atlantic name? I mean, can you please write a complete thought here and there, huh?

The debate? A new age gentleman on stage with an old school politician. Both teams have declared victory based on their understanding of what can win. No new points made... no changed minds. The campaign marches toward the inevitable while almost half the party remains in denial. What a waste of time and effort.

It's not even good theater any more.

Are you serious?

Pop Warner?

None of these questions were asked of George W. Bush. They're barely asked of Clinton. Certainly not of John McCain. The bar has been set so high for Obama, and raised (to his credit) with each cycle that there is no way, in the minds of some, for him to meet it.

Which is certainly not a foreign experience in the Black community or underclass communities in general.

It appears that Gibson and Stephanopolos (spelled right? Quite a mouthful!) behaved like scolding principals addressing 2 bad students on politics and how should it really be? Why cant SOMEONE other than a 'brand name' newscaster moderate these debates? These people behave like 'elitist', all knowers, almighty wordworthy, etc,etc. Why cant someone ask casually? The media already HAS a problem of mincing,mixing,icing,etc peoples' words, tonite made no difference. I'd rather hear ESSENTIAL QUESTIONS be asked, not whether my mother put sugar instead of salt in her meringue recipe. Come on! This is a presidential debate, by asking this they are no less equivalent to 'The View' where people/families are dissected over simplicities. GOVERN YOURSELVES ACCORDINGLY and let intellectuals GOVERN their way!

Every time Charlie Gibson asks a question, god kills a kitty.

Please, think about the kitties.

Obama got hammered...

Hillary got the Bosnia treatment, so this was not as unfair as everyone thinks, it is just that she handled it much better than he did.

The Republicans will pick him apart on all those things, the flag pin, Ayers, bittergate, Wright, Rezko, etc.

ABC is doing Obama a favor, they are giving him the chance to innoculate himself. Did Gennifer Flowers become an issue in 1992. NO. Why? Because Clinton did away with it early. It was done and over. If Obama can vet his skeletons now, it will be less meaningful when McCain hits him in October. STOP WHINING.

That said, his response on Capital Gains taxes was HORRIBLE. The problem is it is a horrible ideal. Punish 100 million 401k holders so you show 29 hedge fund managers about fairness? Oh, and lose revenue so you can pay for new programs? Obama, come on. He looked like a deer caught in the headlights. It showed how little he understands tax policy and the economy. AWFUL.

Why should Obama answer any of most of the questions? They were about nothing anyone wants to know about. Never forget the country voted for Bush TWICE. Hillary is in the style.

What else can be expected of ABC? A Jim Lehrer style debate, with intelligent and meaningful questions? Of course not. ABC appeals to the lowest common denominator of the American public. A very low denominator indeed.

About time we saw what would happen when Obam gets stress tested and it aint pretty. And anybody comparing the guy getting a few rough questions for 20 minutes and what Clinton has been subjected to for MONTHS needs a little balance and fiber in their diet.

Who's "the Man" and what do you mean by that comment? I'd love to hear your answer to that.

Why should Obama answer any of these so-called questions. They have nothing to do with what people need to know, non-thinking questions?

And questions about his personal associations, his character, his personal beliefs, his statements at private fundraisers -- the answers to these questions tell us a lot. Sometimes the questions are unfair (( -- nothing about Colombia and Mark Penn -- )), but this ain't Pop Warner; the artificial distinction between politics, personality and policy doesn't exist in this league, and if you're uncomfortable with it, then change the rules or don't run for office.

This is the stinkiest heap of bullshit I've seen from a political reporter in a long time. YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE MEDIA. YOU CAN CHANGE THE RULES. Instead, you come up with pathetic justifications (read: unsupported assertions) to justify you and your brethren not having to learn or know anything about policy, to justify the stupidity and laziness that you revel in. You're a disgrace, and you're ruining my country.

I was very dissapointed with the questions tonight. ABC treated us like idiots. Perhaps the National Enquirer will host the next round.

CLINTON WON . SHUP AND ELECT HER YOU HATERS.

Interesting isn't it the tone of the Obama-maniacs when their man has a bad night. They are vulgar and so nasty. This has been my experience anytime their messiah is questioned. It's revealing and why I would never vote for Obama, even though I am a Democrat and a lefty. Debates like these are so valuable because they reveal real traits, not fluffed up speeches in big arenas, etc. etc.

However you feel about the debate performance of Clinton, Obama or ABC (In my opinion, ABC was the only loser tonight. And those of us who watched this wretched excuse for a debate. How long did we have to wait for a question about the war in Iraq? 45 minutes? How long for a question about the economy? 1 hour?) this debate really won't matter. At all.

(1) The pacing was so pathetic even a political junkie like me was bored to tears,

(2) Most Americans have already voted in a primary.

(3) Most questions did not address issues of substance that *might* impact more than 1 or 2 24 news cycles.

(4) They've already debated 20 freakin' times. I think we know these two candidates by now


So I say to every democrat, whether you're a Clinton or Obama supporter, take a deep breath and realize that tonight wasn't the superbowl. It wasn't even a pre-season warm up game. It was the third quarter of the Hawaii pro-bowl. Except without the crappy uniforms. No one watched. No one cared.

I was very disappointed with the questions tonight. ABC treated us like idiots. Perhaps the National Enquirer will host the next round.

Cannot wait to see the look on Obama supporters face when media announces Clinton's big victory in PA next week!

Everyone quit whining, Obama cracked under pressure. It will not get any easier, this man has been babied far too long. This just shows he can not handle pressure, and the thought of him cracking in the whitehouse is scarey. Hillary knows the issues,she has a plan. She has proven tonight she is the one that is READY "from day 1"
Obama is still wet behind the ears, and dont even get me started on his associates!
Obama lies, he does not want a new kind of politics, he proved that tonight, every question he was asked, he countered with uh uh er Hillary,blah blah blah. Same political moves as anyone else! Without a speech writer or a teleprompter this man is lost!
wright,ayers,rezco,his own wife,"bitter" pregnancy is "punishment/mistake" wake-up ppl.

greg - now they are going after YOU for having the nerve to write what you saw. OH NOES! What is the world coming to when a guy who wants to be be president has to answer more than 9 questions? And some of them were HARD! The unfairness of it all.

some of the posts above are hilarious.

excuse me - post above was meant for Marc Ambinder, not greg.

marc ambinder: now they are going after YOU for having the nerve to write what you saw. OH NOES! What is the world coming to when a guy who wants to be be president has to answer more than 9 questions? And some of them were HARD! The unfairness of it all.

some of the posts above are hilarious

I think this will represent the highwater mark of the Obama pile-on that the media has been indulging in for the last five weeks. It's getting ridiculous, and despite all the 'expert' opinion to the contrary, none of these diversionary non-stories have affected Obama's standing in the polls.

The first time Obama faces tough questions on his association with shady characters which goes to the heart of who he is, Obama supporters are whining.

There was nothing unfair about what ABC News asked. Unlike NBC, CBS, and CNN and the left-wing columnists who are all in tank for Obama, ABC News actually did its job. They asked tough questions which Obama had a hard time answering.

It seems Obama supporters are shocked that somone dared to question their "demi god."

Thank you ABC for finally brining Ayers to America's attention. SHAME on Obama for not only supporting a race baiter like Wright, but for giving a pass to a terrotist like Ayers. He should refuse to sit on any board with such a person, he should refuse to associate with such a person. I'm a democrat and if I think Ayers is a terrorist the republicans will say worse. Obama time and time again has failed to stand up for America. That is NOT what our next president should have as his value system. Obama lacks character and it showed tonight as he lied about his writing being on that questionaire (he's admitted it was), by lying about Wright (read the comments in Rolling Stone he referred to--those remarks by Wright clearly show what Wright stands for), by comparing Ayers to Tom Coburn (outrageous!). Obama is a far left radical and it's time my party woke up to this guy's unelectability.

Obamanut here, I agreed he looked bad. My guess is, he was pissed off to all hell (for good reason), but he can't lash out because he's trying to get the country above and beyond this. The result is some serious confusion

And the people defending Hillary for what she did- jumping into the Ayers debate- are just disgusting. You don't care about the Democratic party; you only care about Hillary. She's joining with Hannity, the GOP, and the media in painting Obama as a terrorist with terrorist connections. Unacceptable, and it's why she's lost this nomination. He goes out of his way to defend her on Tuzlagate, and she does this. Why am I not surprised?

hey Deborah - well I think anyone who believes they were both equal tonight makes morons look good. Congrats!

What is wrong with asking a lot of tough questions to Obama? It gives insight into how he will react in difficult situations, if he becomes president. And who cares if few tough questions were asked of Clinton--she has a minuscule chance of becoming the Dem nominee.

Gayle,

Die painfully in a fire.

I was glad to see someone from the msm FINALLY hold Obama to the issues and not let him go off on 50 different tangents on every question! I applaud Charlie for that!

I thought that George is still "totally in the tank" for BO. He picks and chooses the smallest polling samples to report that are pro-Obama.

I still say that NBC/MSNBC/ABC/CBS/CNN all need refresher courses in journalism. The "shame" is on the MSM for trying to force who they like on us.

I do want to know why does BO begin to stutter everytime he responds to a tough question? What is up with that?!!!!

Obama is the Democratic front runner. He must be ready to face the spot light. MSNBC blasted Clinton at their debates. Obama must get faster and better if he is going to defend against Ayers, Rezko, reverands, and a very thin resume. He should have been vetted long before this. Tonight you witnessed the press doing its job. They are supposed to be our watchdogs. I do not know about you but I want I big mean pit bull not a toy poodle watching the goverment. Obama might make a good president but he is just another politician as far as I am concerned.

Poor Obama and his supporters don't wike it when he has to answer tough questions. "Leave Barack Alone! Or you'll have to answer to me. I will make calls! I will send emails! Leave Barack alone!" I can see the YouTube videos now.

Grow up, take it on the chin. There are more to come. Many, many more. Rezko trial, anyone?

Kudos to ABC! Finally someone in the media had the guts to ask Obama some tough questions about his character and policies. The free ride ended for him tonight. His performance was awful and unpresidential. He is just not ready yet. Hillary is the better choice.

Dear Dave:

Obama won Texas - we have a two step process and Hillary's support stayed home for round two. Check it out - Obama won the delegate count in Texas. So, Hillary has only won 2 out of the last 17 contests (in delegates - the important factor). Yet, she is indignant when people suggest that she is losing. Give me a break....

Jim (from the great State of Texas)

What's the matter with Obama Supporters? their majesty got hit tonight? I think Obama supporters are really "BITTER". I suggest you cling to your gun and religion tonight!

OBAMA HAS SHOWN HE IS NOT A PROUD AMERICAN .THE BOMBER OF OKLAHOMA STADIUM WAS IN THE MILITARY .WE KILL HIM .WE'LL KILL BEN LADEN IF CAUGHT .OBAMA DID'NT RUN AWAY FROM HIS NEW FRIEND TERRORIST . HE CAN'T WIN IN THE GENERAL YOU HATERS .VOTE CLINTON.

hahaha I cant stop laughing after reading all the obamabots posts....hahahahahahahaha!!
America finally gets an introduction to who Obama really is, I would be embarrassed too if I had supported this clown from the get go.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

yeah, Tony.

Really, the guy is trying to get us all beyond his having to answer any questions on what he has been up to and what in hell he plans to do!

The unfairness of it all!

What a horrible debate!

Americans lost tonight. ABC should be ashamed.

The unmitigated gall of them to think that voters and their viewers are such morons that we would accept this biased garbage.

ABC owes us an apology. If we had wanted to view biased unimportant National Enquirer garbage, we would have turned on Fox!

This honestly looked like something the HRC campaign funded.

If anyone benefitted, it is McCain.

I see George's still in Clinton's pocket and Charlie, maybe his last chance to be a tough guy. Maybe Charlie missed his bedtime.

What a useless debate? This is really an inquisition of Obama. I will donate to his cause today

Is it just me or are there a few verbs missing in this article???

How predictable! The Obama supporters are so enraged that Obama didn't come out on top. They are screaming racism and media bias. Ironic, considering media bias has been largely in his favor and they've never complained before. The moderators DID THEIR JOB. They finally asked Obama some tough questions, which the mainstream media has failed to do for several months.

What a useless debate? This is really an inquisition of Obama. I will donate to his cause today

To Barack Obamas credit he didn't whine to the interviewers like Hillary Clinton has done in past debates, about being unfairly singled out.
I just find Hillary exhausting to listen to because the way she responds is so predictable and so negative all the time. This has been like watching a boxing match where the guy who is ahead on points, knows all he has to do is be standing at the end of the fight and he will win.
Hillary on the other hand, has to land a knockout blow to win but hasn't got the skill set.

To Barack Obamas credit he didn't whine to the interviewers like Hillary Clinton has done in past debates, about being unfairly singled out.
I just find Hillary exhausting to listen to because the way she responds is so predictable and so negative all the time. This has been like watching a boxing match where the guy who is ahead on points, knows all he has to do is be standing at the end of the fight and he will win.
Hillary on the other hand, has to land a knockout blow to win but hasn't got the skill set.

I pray nightly that Satan-spawn Hillary has a massive and immediately fatal stroke.

And that she then burns in the fires of hell for all eternity.

And McCain is a senile warmongering madman.

It's not even that I like Obama that much. He is merely the (far) lesser of three evils.

This country is so screwed. But then, it is going to get exactly what it deserves.

Gotta say, though, at this point I have (much) less respect for the remaining Clinton supporters than for the Bush dead enders.

Report your views on the malfeasance in the debate through the Malpractice in Journalism feature at Acropolis Review. Does George Stephanaopoulous even have a degree in journalism? Didn't think so.

More constructively, send this summary of top reasons to support Obama to everyone you know in Pennsylvania, Indiana or North Carolina.

http://acropolisreview.com/2008/04/top-reasons-to-give-barack-obama-your.html

bitter undecided voters decide to cling to...

CLINTON!

I am incredibly thrilled to hear the Obama cultists so pathetically rip tonight's debate apart! For it proves that my impression is indeed widespread ......Obama MAJORLY had his cover blown, Hillary showed she was ACTUALLY PAYING ATTENTION to what's been going on in the nitty gritty details of govt. (Obama thought 1 or 2 years in the senate were enough for him), and furthermore, she actually had detailed and knowledgeable and smart plans for solving key problems. OWE it to the Democratic party and our county to nominate Hillary (with or without B.O. as VP). Rise, Hillary, Rise!

McCain has already won! Do you really believe that Obama is going to win in the general election? Dream on! That is not going to happen. I guarantee you.
Beside, why are you mad at ABC? He needs to answer these questions sooner or later.

Tasckton, thank you for noting what is getting overlooked in this election: Barack is really the central symbol of that "new American coalition" you noted...and the pundits and traditional politicians don't "get it." Analysis is being done the same old way: blue states, red states, white men, young voters, etc. etc. etc. And even this "debate" is being analyzed and dissected by those who know no other way than to fall back on the same old phrases, prognostications, stereotypes. But when you're forging a completely new path, the old methods of evaluation...aren't all that relevant to those of us who are truly into this New Way of Acting and Living in the World.

This IS a new coalition. And this IS a new way of "doing it." I haven't voted in almost thirty years. Totally disengaged from politics. Yet I'm absolutely committed to offering my heart, my love, my money to help create this New Paradigm. And Barack...is offering himself as a focal point for it. Not such an easy role to play. (Appreciation to him like crazy...)

Obviously, there are many, many more out there like me. And we're not on the charts. Not on the tables. Not on the summaries. No measure has been taken of those of us who are ready to truly change things on a core level.

That's because those who cling to the old...don't even know where to start.

P.S. I respectfully ask Obama supporters to: 1. stay focused on our successes, 2. commit to expressing ourselves in goodwill, and 3. "know" this is a change that cannot be stopped. We've reached a "critical mass" of sorts...and the shift to this "New Way"...is inevitable.

Tonight was the first night that I was pleased that Obama was not pampered to death!
ABC did a good job, the msm has painted this man to be something he is not. He has a lot of unanswered questions, and without a script writer I doubt we'll get any answers from him.
He has no experience. People need to get their heads out of the clouds, we need someone running the country that is experienced. There is much more that will come out about this man. Thank God Hillary is still in, or we would have no one running against McCain.
Wake-up DNC. The answer is pretty clear, Hillary is definatley more electable than Obama. He is just full of hot air!

And questions about his personal associations, his character, his personal beliefs, his statements at private fundraisers -- the answers to these questions tell us a lot.

I don't feel like I learned anything new. Obama wasn't an anti-American terrorist sympathizer before the debate, and he still isn't one.

And to clear something up -- Obama supporters aren't upset that Obama is getting tough questions. A future President should be able to handle tough questions, obviously. What we're upset about are:

a) That Obama was put to a clearly different standard than Clinton in this debate. It is prima facie absurd to grill Obama for being cordial with an ex-terrorist when Clinton's husband pardoned members of the same terrorist group. That Stephanopolous (or however you spell his name), an ex-Clinton higher-up, was given these questions by right-wingers makes it all doubly absurd.

b) That these gotcha issues were discussed ad nauseam at the expense of real issues. And gun control doesn't count since Clinton and Obama both favor gun restrictions, as Dems have for quite some time. Did anybody at ABC think that maybe voters would be interested in, oh, the financial crisis that pretty much everybody is concerned about right now? Or education, the environment, labor issues, torture? It was almost embarrassing watching both candidates have to slip in uninformative stump speech lines in a vain attempt to get their policy message out.

I watched the debate with my wife, a strong Clinton supporter, and we both walked away thinking the same thing: meh. Boring and uninformative.

And to be honest, I'm a little worried that both you and Chuck Todd seem to be making such a big deal out of Obama's supposed disaster. You two have been my last bastion of not-totally-out-of-touchness. Dial it back a bit and remember that voters don't really care whether Obama looks off his game quite so much as they care whether he can actually advocate for them.

Does this person proofread his writing? The first sentence is absolutely ungrammatical. The second sentence is not actually a sentence. Then an ok sentence or two, then a missing word in the first sentence of the second paragraph. I stopped reading. Embarassing...

Very surprised at George and Charlie. I'm not an Obama supporter but I was surprised at the biased attack on Obama and the kid gloves offered Hillary. One hard question for Hillary and all the rest directed at Obama.

LarryM - go pick your teeth with a Winchester.

I pray nightly you have a massive fatal stroke, I'd be glad to help you with that MF.

Let me explain it in simple words to you Hillary supporters.

Hillary isn't going to be the nominee. She just isn't. The primary race is over. That being said,

(1) If you prefer McCain to Obama, and some of you do, then by all means keep piling on Obama. Heck, as much as I loath McCain, if Clinton was the person with a decisive delegate and popular vote lead at this point, I'd still be trashing the hell out of her, because, while McCain will be a far worse president than Bush, and most likely will destroy the country, Clinton would be even worse.

(2) If you think that Obama, whatever faults you may think he has, would still be preferable to McCain, then shut the fuck up. You are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

*I might add that Omaba supporters who think she would be better than McCain should also lighten up a little on her. Fair is fair. I just don't feel that way, so I'm happy to call the loathsome animal for what she is.

This undecided voter just made up her mind for Obama. I am so tired of the slice/dice, scorched earth tactics of some politicians and their lackeys in the media. Obama, who is not a knife fighter, is a refreshing change.

The entire debate was a waste of time. Stupid fluff questions about crap that doesn't matter instead of discussing actual voting issues.

ABC should be ashamed.

Dear Jim (from the great State of Texas):

That's very typical of the delusion of Obama supporters that you think Obama won Texas. The primary counts each vote of every voter and Hillary won. Look it up on any legitimate website American, International, etc, who won the Texas primary.
The delegate business is ridiculous on the Democratic side and this is my point. The Texas caucus was a joke, as were most of the caucuses.
In the general election, there is no caucus. Caucuses exclude a large number of people. So, yes Hillary did win your state Jim, and if the system was winner-take-all, as it is in the general election and Republican primary, Hillary would have won all of Texas' delegates and would have a huge lead overall. Even if we set Texas aside, Obama won the Illinois primary--his home state. Clinton won California, Ohio, New York, New Jersey, Mass., Florida, Michigan, etc, etc. All of the big primaries in states that are in play in the general election. It's just moronic that Howard Dean and the Obama folks are so left wing that they contrive a system to be the most "fair" by excluding Michigan and Florida--two crucial states in the general election with voters now offended by the Democrats. Even without Fla and Michigan, she will likely win the popular vote and if you added those states, it wouldnt be close. SO, go ahead and argue about technicalities and delegates, but the fact is neither candidate will have enough pledged delegates under this ridiculous system. So in the interest of nominating Obama to please the left wing, the Democrats will lose another general election even after a two term disaster named Bush.

OMG...hahahahahahahaha. Now Obama supporters are threatening to boycott ABC and Disney. Obamaboobs, do what you do best: find someone, anyone, to blame. How pathetic.

CHARLES GIBSON IS A RACIST!

GEORGE STEPHA-BLAH-BLAH-BLAH IS A RACIST!

HILLARY IS A RACIST!

GERALDINE IS A RACIST!

ANYONE WHO DOESN'T VOTE FOR OBAMA IS A RACIST!

PROVE YOU'RE NOT A RACIST BY VOTING FOR OBAMA!

Well, it seems Obama supporters are young, energetic and capable of using the internet to complain about one news organization doing its job. Lots of complaints on a messageboard is all sound and fury, signifying nothing.

The Clinton supporters who are in the majority have already had their metamucil and are fast asleep tucked in their warm beds. There's a lot of things to do in the day when you wake up at 4am in the morning.

Hillary was at her best and Obama..well...lets just say he had a bad nite. Welcome to the real world B.O.! Just how do you expect to deal with the real problems of the country if you can't handle a pussycat like Hillary.

It's clear now why Obama was hesitant to hold a debate when Hillary challenged him to one. Why would we want Obama to be President when he hasn't been "battle-tested"? And we know McCain has been "battle-tested"!

LarryM,

You are really BITTER! You need to cling to your gun and religion tonight.

Did I miss anything? I actually worked during the debates; the TV was off. I knew there'd be blood on the stage afterwards, just as there will be in Denver in August. I fully believe there won't be a single man/woman standing after that fiasco. Congratulations, Dems... what a poor performance for the whole party. Turn out the lights before you leave; there won't be anybody left if you wait until after it's over. Learn that adherance to lies (Hillary) and American haters (Obama) will NOT win you anything.

Little baby Larry has a potty mouth! I never heard the word fuck before! You are a bad ass for saying that big boy word.

We will not shut up. We will not be quiet. REZKO. REZKO. REZKO. AUCHI. AUCHI. AUCHI. AYERS. AYERS. AYERS.

See. Not quiet. Not till he loses the election. Not till America knows all the skeletons in the Osama closet.

Barack H. Obama is friends with a someone who tried to blow up American government buildings. Friends with "God Damn America."

Hillary tonight absolutely killed this two year old senator. Obama is clearly still wearing political diapers! Obama supporters obviously can't handle how terrible their Media Messiah looked. They are in absolute shock how Hillary showed him up tonight!

"Obama fared poorly, but it seems more like he was just tired..." Seriously? Whenever he appears incompetent, Obama's supporters claim he is "just tired." The truth of the matter is he is JUST NOT PREPARED to lead this country.

Hillary tonight absolutely killed this two year old senator. Obama is clearly still wearing political diapers! Obama supporters obviously can't handle how terrible their Media Messiah looked. They are in absolute shock how Hillary showed him up tonight!

Jim in TX,

I'll give it to the Obama Campaign/David Axelrod that they have handled the caucuses brilliantly. However, in TX there were numerous, numerous instances of policy being broken regarding checking that people had actually voted earlier in the day in the primary. In larger cities such as Dallas and Houston, Hillary supporters were blocked by Obama supporters from voting in the precinct conventions. Also fake lists of voters/votes for Obama were brought in to the precinct conventions for Obama. Sadly, there was wide-spread cheating...all on the part of Obama. Also in our precinct when it came time to vote on resolutions...all of the Obama delegates left leaving the Hillary delegates to do the tedious work late at night. (What a surprise.) Where is the decency that is supposed to be exhibited by the campaign?

I think Senator Clinton would have come extremely close to winning the delegates if the (false) delegate votes were thrown out....and Hillary won the popular vote. So you can't say she didn't win TX. We'll never know if she truly lost the (fair) delegate count.

LarryM.....if Hillary is Satan why did she work like hell in the early 80s to keep Hispanic farm labors from being abused and treated like slaves? Texas Rural Aid prevented numerous abuses while Hillary was Chairman of the Legal Services Corporation. Hillary is no more Satan than Barack...and neither she nor Obama are all bad or all good.

Harrier...please stop the extreme cursing and harrassing comments about Marc Cambinder online. It makes you appear to be mentally challenged and is not cool on a blog.

Didn't Hillary come pretty close tonight to offering a security guarantee to lot of countries in the Middle East? I would have thought the author might have found that worth comment.

I watched the Philly TV station, and some data points (I was live-blogging this, so I hope I get it right, and it all went by fast):

1. UPenn PoliSci students were interviewed. Before the debate, they were either for Obama, or neutral. After the debate, they were strongly pro-Hillary. So at least all college students aren't pro-Obama, by definition.

2. The station polled Undecideds after the debate, and they broke strongly for Hillary, 55 - 45.

3. They also had a focus group wired up to see how they reacted during the debate. For that group, 50% thought Clinton won, and only 27% thought Obama won, with the rest undecided.

So, while the talking heads think it was a draw or at most a TKO for Hillary, the voters seem to think differently.

Of course, there hasn't been time for our famously free press to explain to them what really happened....

Mary, Jim,

See you are obviously in the "I prefer McCain to Obama" camp. Fair enough, though it would be nice if you had the courage and/or honesty to admit as much, instead of pretending to be Democrats. You are in favor of dropping bombs on innocent Iraqis and Iranians. That makes you psychotically evil, but there is a lot of that going around.

But please, don't pretend that this is about Obama, or Clinton even. This is about your desire to elect an insane warmonger who will start WW III.

A little honesty from freaking trash like you is all that I ask.

I would like to see a similar three way attack on John McCain without Joe Lieberman. McCain still thinks that Al-Qaeda is being trained and funded by the Iranians.
I sure it would beat Comedy Central!

obama is not ready for prime time. he can't answer without a teleprompter, tweety o ms brown, or ALL the major news talking heads(Lou Dobbs excluded) fauning all over him. tough questions? hillary has had 20 debates of tough questions and stood tall for all of them. stop whinning obamatrons..he just is not ready for the big time!wait till putin or china gets a hold of him if we are so cursed. HILLARYIS44

HAAHAAHHA...Obamanites, go ahead, give all your money to Obama; you CANNOT buy the presidency for him!! HAHAHHHHAAAHA

Sigh....

Nice little commentator community we used to have here...

Whether you're a Clinton or Obama supporter. This had to be worst debate i've seen to date, seriously. For 45 minutes, i thought i was watching a FOX News firing squad. Stephenopolus and Gibson were repugnant. They unfairly targeted Obama. And they peppered both candidates with meaningless questions. This wasn't a debate, it was a tabloid.

Bwaaaaaa, I love the spectacle the Snobamamites are putting on tonight: "Good Gaia, how unfair this all was...questioning the man as if he weren't the Messiah, or a black man above reproach".

Sorry people but your guy got smoked bad tonight and no amount of spin will get you or him out of it. I mean how DENSE can you be so claim religion is just a crutch for when the government isn't there to help.

If there were any religious holdouts uncomfortable with McCain, they just blew the doors off stampeding to his camp.

Outstanding job by ABC, Charles Gibson, and George Stephanopoulos. Easily the best of the 21. No Obama a**-kissing this time around. Senator Obama's attempt to compare Senator Tom Coburn to convicted terrorist-bomber William Ayers was just ludicrous. Weak performance Senator Obama...I bet the Republican 527s are licking their chops and praying he'll be the ultimate nominee.

Hey, Ambinder- stick this in your pipe and smoke it. From ABCNEWS.com:

Who won the Democratic debate?

Sen. Barack Obama 15,006
Sen. Hillary Clinton 5,383
It was a tie 1,540
Total Vote: 21,929

I've read a theory several times basically saying that the long, grueling presidential campaign is essentially a "trial by fire" thing to actually be president--the most demanding, stressful job in the world. And, if you're inclined to view this as a "hatchet job" on Obama (which I'm not), you ought to keep this in mind.

Obama talks (and did so, several times tonight) about "politics as usual," and kept trying to claim that all these things were distractions, ostensibly to steer the debate back to things that matter. Let's even concede this is right. But this isn't the way the real world works. Again, let's stipulate that on policy issues, which this ought to be about, Obama's got all the right answers (and, again, I don't believe that, but for the sake of argument). Even if we want it to be otherwise, this is what it is right now. Clinton is playing the right-wing-will-be-even-more-viscious card, which is true.

So rather than whine about how (arguably) nasty/"unfair" Gibson and Stephanopolous were, wouldn't you Obama fans rather be saying, "wow, Barack took their ("unfair") punches, and, nonetheless, had a great debate?" (And, I guess, I see there are true believers on this message board saying just that.) But I'll defer to Obama super-fan Andrew Sullivan: "He failed tonight in a big way."

To summarize (and skipping over McCain, and, more relevantly the "evil" non-Soros 527's), will Obama hope/assume/demand that Iran or Al Queda or China or Putin('s puppet) be similarly deferential?

Hahahaha, That was the best debate of the season folks. All of you whining about the questions just reflect on the fact that the Dems have had like 100 debates, 99 of which focused more then enough time on those issues. Whats to go over? They both will pull out of Iraq immediatly. They both want socialized medicine. They both think we need to "get serious" about Gore's delusion. These grounds have been combed completely.

And do you seriously think that a potential nominee's connection to a former (?) terrorist is not worth asking questions about? Or how he imbibed of the hate-mongering of the racist Wright for 20 years and didn't have a problem with it until Wright's hysteria and racism, and generally just his insanity, were shown to the world? Or that the other nominee is more than comfortably with fabricating events in the past to pad her resume?

This was awesome, somthing I wouldn't have expected out of ABC (Charlie pegging them on captial gains tax? That was sweet).

They came expecting a tea-party. They got real questions about their character. How enlightening and entertaining.

Huzzah ABC! Huzzah!

As of midnight, 68% of the viewers at ABC said Obama won; 25% said Hillary won.

That's after 17,311 responses.

LarryM,

First of all, I am Iranian and I am a democrat and I vote democrat no matter who wins the nomination. However I am not blind like you and I really believe that Obama is not going to win the general election. I guarantee you.

Beside, you have a very dirty mouth; you make me think differently about Obama supporters.

See, at least Muffin is honest. And his/her comments should give the few real Hillary supporters checking in here pause. The McCain supporters were thrilled by today's debate, because The Monster and the Moderators did their dirty work for them. Shouldn't that at least cause you deluded fools to maybe think about whose side you (and Hillary) are really on?

But who am I kidding? I doubt that there are many of any sincere Hillary supporters commenting here tonight. It's just a bunch of dishonest McCain trolls.

As a lifelong liberal activist I am sad tonight because after this debate there is no way in the world Barack Obama can win in November. The writing is on the wall people.

Heh heh heh...spin my pretties. There were issues discussed, though I'm thinking that most of the Obama supporters were by that time throwing themselves to the floor in frothing rage.

Perhaps you failed to hear the tortured answers about gun control, where both candidates tried to explain that they simultaneously supported the 2nd amendment AND the D.C. gun ban. Comedy gold.

Or Obama looking like a total clown as he tried to explain how raising the CG tax would garnish more money for the treasury.

Drop the halo Obama, you just got pwned.

Rise Hillary Rise!!!

Mary,

Then you are the biggest moron who ever lived, because Clinton can't win now, and all that you (and she) are doing is helping McCain.

You're Iranian? Bet you are really going to feel like shit if McCain beats Obama narrowly and then bombs the hell out of Iran.

And as for "you make me think differently about Obama supporters," I can set your mind at rest. I'm only a lukewarm Obama supporter; I merely prefer him as the lesser of three evils, compared tot he monster and the madman.

listening to all the obamabots whine about anti-obama bias is hilarious. let's send them some cheese to go with their "whine". we never heard a single complaint from them when the bias was clearly against Hillary.

Some stupid Obama supporter gets an online poll from ABC and tries to use this as fact. Please!!! Everyone is on to the Obama worshippers game; after every debate they all go to these websites and start fawning over how good their Messiah was. These Obama supporters live, breath, eat and drink promoting Obama online. Clinton supporters have a life...they are too busy with working to make a better life for themselves and their family rather than blogging. Obama supporters try getting a life!

Hey Cettel,
Your looking at an online poll. Of course Obama is going to appear to be the winner because most of Hillarys supporters are the hard working middle class families who are too busy to vote online. They are putting their kids to bed, paying their bills, ironing their clothes for their jobs tomorrow. They are too busy to post comments online. You and I probably have the luxary of having time to post comments. By the way, Obama sucks and he lost tonite....Big Time!

Believe it or not - you all have a much stronger voice than the media if you'd simply exercise it, sharing your thoughts with friends, neighbors, and anyone else who might listen.
Hopefully the internet will eventually evolve to the point that political plants and neurotics won't waste their time reading or writing comments on MSM "blogs".

Yeppers, its a biased media, McCain trolls and probably a few Jews (ht: Wright) thrown in for good measure.

Obama has been getting praise for months now and not saying a damn thing about anything other than "hope and change". He has all sorts of skeletons that he would rather not talk about, yet in his quest to be "different" he has no problem taking the low road against Hillary, just like every other pol in America.

Check it out: Obie is just another politician. Shocking, I know.

The RNC campaign commercials are practically writing themselves.

Brokered convention/DFL riot/Total meltdown coming soon to a Colorado city near you. With any luck it will resemble the fist-fight melees such as South Korea enjoys.

Make it a PPV event with proceeds going towards the national debt and we will have it paid-off in one night.

Poor Little LarryM, he starts talking trash but can't seem to take it well. Tsk, tsk. Don't take try to take the high road when you paved the low road for others.

I can't believe you consider yourself patriotic when you support a trash heap like B. Hussein Obama, who is friends with someone who tried to blow up other innocent civilian Americans. What kind of trash would be friends with a psychotic piece of shit like Ayers. That is as un-American as one can get. I know Michelle and Barack don't think much of America, but you too, Larry?

I thought BO was supposed to be a uniter? What happend?

What we obviously need to do is create a database of anyone who has ever done anything wrong, post it on the internet, and then everyone can make sure they never live near one of those despicable people.

Next, we need to create another database of people who insist on living near the people in the first database. Those people must then be drawn and quartered.

In the end, the good people in the world will only be living near and associating with all the other good people in the world.

Problem solved.

I find it funny that men are telling women that Hillary has set us back 150 years...That's rich coming from men who have held us down for thousands of years!

Hillary was very intelligent and and to the point!
Obama supporters loved to rave about Obamas past debates when he virtually had to answer nothing. Finally tonight he actually had to answer questions that related to his own statements and associations, not just reword Hillary's answers!

If Obama can't handle these questions, how on earth will he handle the Republicans who are just around the corner waiting to pounce on him? I can assure you they aren't going to treat Obama with kid gloves.

But of course the outrage wasn't there when a talking snowman was used to question the GOP candidates, or that abortion views have yet to be asked of the DFL.

Circus all around tonight; the two clowns answering questions made it official.

LarryM

Yes I am an Iranian, and believe me no Bush or McCain is going to be soooooo stupid to bomb Iran, trust me on that. They can't even afford Iraq’s war.

However, I am really disappointed of myself for even talking to you. You need to go out sometimes and before you do that ask your mom to wash your dirty mouth with soap. Good night and God bless you.

Obama proved once again tonight why he's never going to be President: He's an empty suit who gives great speeches reading off the teleprompter but can't ad lib to save his soul. Anyone with debating skills (ie., Senator McCain) will clean his clock.

Jim,

Interesting how you don't deny desiring to elect McCain, start WW III, and bomb innocent Iraqis and Iranians. Your admission by silence is duly noted. So we have it figured out - Mary is the idiot, you are the evil monster.

If America really did consist mainly of psychotic scum like yourself, then perhaps I wouldn't be so patriotic. Fortunately, monsters like yourself are in the minority in the United States (though sadly in the majority right now in the executive branch - hopefully they will get the war crimes trial they deserve, and, after trial and conviction, death by hanging).

In any event, here's hoping that you die in agony after a few days of suffering after suffering third degree burns over 80% of your body.

"Clinton is viewed as "honest and trustworthy" by just 39 percent of Americans, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll, compared with 52 percent in May 2006. Nearly six in 10 said in the new poll that she is not honest and trustworthy. And now, compared with Obama, Clinton has a deep trust deficit among Democrats, trailing him by 23 points as the more honest, an area on which she once led both Obama and John Edwards."

....and she did all herself

What we obviously need to do is create a database of anyone who has ever done anything wrong, post it on the internet, and then everyone can make sure they never live near one of those despicable people.

I guess that system would depend on what you consider "wrong".

I consider it wrong to associate with a guy who belonged to a group who liked to set-off bombs; Obama thinks differently.

If you think tonight's debate was tough on Obama, wait till the Republicans get a hold of him. McCain will rip off his bobblehead and jump up and down on his empty suit.

Muffin -- the rules of who goes into the database should be set by you and you alone. That way we can be sure no mistakes are made.

Barack Obama has a little lying problem - the other day REZKO's own attorney outed Obama as a liar. Obama said he never met Saddam Hussein's (no relation) friend Mr. Auchi. Obama's friend REZKO's attorney said during REZKO's trial that Barack H. Obama and his lovely wife Michelle were indeed at a party REZKO held in honor of Saddam's pal Auchi. Liar liar, pants on fire!

What shoes are yet to drop in the ongoing REZKO trial?

Who will be the next indicted friend of Mr. REZKO?

Will this take place a few months from now, right after the convention?

Patrick Fitzgerald did such a fine job nailing Scooter Libby, I wonder what he is going to do with REZKO and associates? Mr. Fitzgerald seems to have a taste for political corruption. Hmm.

Anyone with debating skills (ie., Senator McCain) will clean his clock.

Snort, chortle. Okay, stepping out of rant mode for the moment.

None of the three remaining candidates is a great debater. Obama's rhetorical skills lie elsewhere (though your teleprompter comment is bullshit; he is a fine extemporaneous speaker, but is only good, not great, as a debater).

Hillary is probably marginally better as a debater than Obama.

But McCain ... oh, come on. He is just awful.

Look, as I said above, I have my reservations about Obama also. While infinitely more electable than The Monster, and even the likely winner against McCain, the combination of the kneecapping he's getting from Hillary, the media's love affair with McCain, and, yes, some flaws of his own (albeit fewer than McCain or Clinton), he could well lose to McCain. But surely not because he is going to lose a debate to McCain. McCain, whatever his strengths as a campaigner, is not going to out debate Obama.

Contact Charlie and George about the disgraceful performance, it was not a debate.

http://abcnews.go.com/Site/page?id=3271346

Wow. Larry, you seem to have quite a concern for Iranians and Iraqis yet you wish horrible death against another blog poster? Quite the juxtaposition.

I wonder what ire you would have for Obama were he elected POTUS and failed to bring the troops home immediately.

I should also say that you are exposing yourself a bit at the dress line: normally trials aren't held with the result being pre-ordained. Not in America, at least.

This seemed more like Obama was facing the Republicans. I think he had answers to all of them, but wasn't expecting them. This type of thing will happen to Hillary too if she is the nominee but she won't have any answers - asside from "I'm not stupid" or "I misspoke" or "I was against NAFTA, secretly."

Hillary has more past policy and memory issues while Obama made a few personal mistakes along the way. It's a tough world out there and if the people of the US are dumb enough to really care about all this crap then we deserve to be looked down upon by the rest of the world.

I sometimes can be very ashamed to be an American. I hope that this election will make me proud and we can all put these types of politics behind us and rally around the issues!!

Muffin -- the rules of who goes into the database should be set by you and you alone. That way we can be sure no mistakes are made.

Sorry, but for the moment we still live in a federal republic and therefore decisions such as these will be made by the people, once they get a full accounting of course.

Now I understand that you wish the whole Ayers thing could be written-off with a casual wave of Obama's hand, but the rest of us want to know why he associates with a guy like that. Hint: that would be the "full accounting" part of this process.

Perennial victim status, its not just for breakfast anymore.

Kent,

(1) I am against the death of innocents. Jim from AZ is no innocent. That said, I do sometimes let my rhetoric get ahead of me when confronted by scum like Jim.

(2) I have no real hope that Obama will bring the troops home quickly. I do think that he will be less likely to start a new war.

If he does, I will indeed be his strongest critic. And if he commits war crimes, I will hold him to the same standard that I hold Bush and Co.

(3) Regarding trials, true enough, but the fact is that Bush, Cheney and company have admitted acts which, under international law, are war crimes. I mean, if a person freely confessed to a horrific murder, publicly, on national television, under no duress, I think most people would assume (correctly) that a conviction was highly likely, even before the trial was actually held. Same thing.

Just wanting "hope" and "change" doesn't make it happen. These Obama people believe that "change" is happening, but it's not. It is wishful thinking. Obama is not proposing anything that resembles real change, couldn't effect real change in the unlikely event he does get elected, and basically... should just drop out.
Yeah. That's what I said. Obama, not Clinton, should drop out and let the more experienced statesperson run in the general. He'll have a chance later when he's learned a thing or two.
Drop out, Obama. You're dividing the party. It's being hijacked by the far left lunatics... and sorry, that's not representative of America.

Just wanting "hope" and "change" doesn't make it happen. These Obama people believe that "change" is happening, but it's not. It is wishful thinking.
Pretending to be "above politics as usual" is just a cover for not really having anything substantive to say except "hope....change....we are the hope we wish to change to...."Obama is not proposing anything that resembles real change, couldn't effect real change in the unlikely event he does get elected, and basically... should just drop out.

Yeah. That's what I said. Obama, not Clinton, should drop out and let the more experienced statesperson run in the general. He'll have a chance later when he's learned a thing or two.
Drop out, Obama. You're dividing the party. It's being hijacked by the far left lunatics... and sorry, that's not representative of America.

I think you mean "...could HAVE fared worse..." and "...Obama doesn't WANT Pennsylvanians..." I didn't get any further into the blog, but you might want to hire a proofer.

Oh bull, if you think that other countries don't get enthralled by the extra-curricular doings of their politicians then you haven't been paying attention for the last two hundred years.

Go ahead and be ashamed of being an American. If you tie your national pride to this one little episode then you probably don't get out much.

Contact ABC:

Call the Switch Board: 212-456-7777 and Ask for the Voicemail of George Stephanopoulos Directly.

Also: dial 818-460-7477 press 2 then 6 then 639

ABC NEW YORK NEWSROOM: (212) 456-5100 newsradio@abc.com Newsroom Fax Machine 212.456.5150

Peter Salinger (THE MAN IN CHARGE OF ELECTION COVERAGE) Director, Special Events & Sports 212.456.5105 peter.salinger@abc.com

Cristi LandesManager, Programming 212.456.5107 cristi.d.landes@abc.com

Wayne Fisk Director, Programming 212.456.5327 wayne.fisk@abc.com

Jeff Fitzgerald Executive Director, Operations 212.456.5554 jeffrey.t.fitzgerald@abc.com

Heidi Oringer Executive Director, Entertainment 212.456.5541 heidi.b.oringer@abc.com

Jon Newman News Coverage 212.456.5100 jonathan.m.newman@abc.com

Joyce Alcantara Assignment Manager 212.456.5106 joyce.a.alcantara@abc.com

Jim Kane Deputy D.C. Bureau Chief 212.222. 6604 james.f.kane@abc.com

Andrew Kalb Executive Director, Programming 05.567.2269 andrew.l.kalb@abc.com

Robert Garcia Executive Director, News & Sports 212.456.5103 robert.garcia@abc.com

This debate was total bs.

This debate was total bs.

1) Jim is no innocent? Why, did he commit a crime or just disagree with you?

2) So if Obama were POTUS and the troops stayed and innocent Iraqis continued to die, would you advocate his trial and execution? I mean this is about innocent victims, right?

3) "Highly likely" is not the same as "actually", no matter how you spin it. You didn't qualify your guilty verdict, you included it as a result which is really just hyperbolic rant.

Hi everybody. I'm a McCain supporter. I didn't watch the "debate" but I believe the posts here claiming that much of the questioning was not on issues. Media people believe they are the story now, and we all lose due to that thinking. The last proper debates in this country were probably those contested by Lincoln and Douglas. They had four clashes, and reading them is very informative. I can say the Democratic campaign has been instructive. I have learned there are only microscopic differences between these two on the issues. I have learned that Hillary can handle tough going better than Obama. With Hillary having more history, she is a known entity, while Obama is still exposing himself and his ideas to America. Naturally this puts more attention on Obama to prove himself. Unfortunately he is not up to the task. His mask slips all too often. He's a radical, and I don't think he is electable. Hillary has a better shot in the general. So...go Barack!

I think the Obamabots are totally unhinged! Hillary exhibited her ability to become President once again tonight.. I said in an editorial in my local paper a few weeks ago that Obamas campaign is "amateur hour" and it appears to continue to be so... its all well and good to want to change things... but change for change sake is ridiculous! Remember what Pres. Bush said running for president in 2000"Things have have never been better vote for change" this is like that campaign on steroids... honestly... his supporters saying Hillary was running the Republican playbook... that is a farce...Obama cant get anything done nevermind working accross the aisle because he hasnt been present for any debate since he starting running for Pres when he was elected with no opposition!This would be comical if it wasnt sad... I wish true Democrats that remember the Clinton era and how it made us proud can muster the power to bring it back and put a stop to this neophyte nonsense we are enduring... one comment tonight that was made..."you can tell the Obama bloggers cause they are rattling their parents house keys" absolutely hysterical! There can be only one and Hillary is it!!

I had planned to contact ABC in every manner possible, but instead I made a sam'itch and fired up the PS3.

Why, you ask? Because the last 99 debates between these two DFL hiccups actually did discuss various issues and all Obama ever said was "changing hopeful audacity". Finally Obama as a 'person' was questioned and of course the Obamaninnies didn't like that, I suppose because questioning The One™ about anything is off limits.

For all your Obamanites - Whitewater, Monica, Travel-gate, Billing records-gate, Vince Foster's - none of these planted bombs in US soil like Obama's co-workers Ayers did: called the damnation of Americ like Wright did: or snobbed the hardworking folks of this country like Obama did. The press has all the right in the world to question Obama in the BitterGate and now that Obama worked for terrorist William Ayers.

Just to let the people who keep citing this ABC on-line poll know, on-line polls are completely meaningless because they do not use scientific sampling. Anyone who has taken a basic statistics class knows this. So continuing to cite the results of an on-line ABC poll to show that Obama won is totally meaningless. It proves nothing. You have to scientific sampling to have meaningful polling data where pollsters call or contact a random and demographically representative sample of individuals so that they can extrapolate meaningful results.

And by the way, Sen. Obama did very bad tonight. He seemed flustered and stammered a lot as he did in the earlier debates. Sen. Clinton was much more substantial, specific and Presidential. No amount of spinning or citing meaningless polls will change this. This liberal, lefty Democrat is now convinced he can't beat McCain. If the African-Americans in our party and the real lefties want to nominate him go ahead---but we will lose badly in November, just like McGovern, Mondale and Dukakis.

One point all of us need to realize, and I include myself here, is that, given the relatively few people who actually saw the debate, any impact it has is going to depend upon the media narrative. Here, e.g., is the first paragraph of the AP story:

"Hillary Rodham Clinton said emphatically Wednesday night that Barack Obama can win the White House this fall, undercutting her efforts to deny him the Democratic presidential nomination by suggesting he would lead the party to defeat."

If this is how the debate plays in the media, it becomes a win for Obama.

Not that that would be particularly fair. But based upon this thread, I don't think Hillary supporters would have much ground for complaint; first of all, they don't seem to be be very concerned with fairness; secondly, a fair summary of the debate would be even worse for Clinton ("Obama stands tall against viciously unfair and irrelevant questions by ABC moderators while Clinton mouths RNC talking points.")

Funny how people are emailing and calling for boycotts and firings NOW... but they weren't when CNN was "accidentally" putting up a picture of Obama when states went for Hillary on Super Tuesday, or saying that when Obama gets a 10 point win it is a "decisive victory" or a "rout", but when Hillary does it is a "mere win" or "just" or "only" 10 points. You Obama-philes who are disgusted on here are disgusting yourselves. You are all for media bias when it is in Obama's favor, but he gets a taste of the medicine you have watched Hillary take for months and you cry foul.

Oh, waaaah. For once you Dems think you have something to complain about from the media. Welcome to the Republicans' world, where debate questions are USUALLY obnoxious and/or "unfair." Those are the rules of the game. If the moderators are asking the questions, it's usually (usually!) because THE PEOPLE are asking the questions. The truth is, people ARE questioning those things about Obama.
Yes, Hillary got off easily, that's true, but it's certainly not like she's always gotten a pass like Prince Barry has. And if you think he hasn't been digitally fellated by the media since he announced his candidacy, then you are utterly delusional. Apparently you'd only be happy if he had absolutely nobody questioning him about anything, because he is the perfect messiah!

Sod off, whiners.

I and millions of Hillary Clinton supporters will vote proudly for McCain if Obama wins the democratic nomination. The Democratic party's infatuation with Obama is sickening and without any good reason! If Hillary doesn't win this nomination, I will vote for Mccain...at least I know he is patriot who loves his country. As for Obama and his wife, I sadly can't say the same. He utterly disgust me with his refusal to wear a flag pin, association with Wright and putting down hard working small town folk.

I will never vote for Obama after tonight's debate. He has the gall to call those who suffer from mental illnesses "Menatally Deranged." And then he expects these people to vote for him?!

http://www.flishfun.com/blog/real-world/obama-keep-guns-away-from-the-mentally-deranged/

Well I suppose it's time for me to sign off for the night; the constant whining of the Snobama minions is getting on my nerves. Being slack-jawed, glassy-eyed drones was a better fit.

My advice? You might want to arrange a few more fainting spells to help bolster your nominee's ego, he seems to need that kind of thing.

Look on the bright side, even if your Messiah© loses the race you still get to play the victim card. Just blame the racist, Bible-thumping, rural hicks for everything, they aren't real democrats anyway, not like those in San Fran.

``The relative few viewers who saw the debate?''

What are you talking about?

It was delayed but broadcasted nation-wide.

Being the Pacific Northwest we saw just like LA just like Texas, Ohio and soon Hawaii.

Clinton had him at least 2 standing 8 counts in a single round.

Clear winner: Clinton.

Obama got the metaphorical crap beat out of him.

When Tim Russert, MSNBC and CNN are there to punch for you, on the spot, it sure is fun watching a fair fight.

ABC put in the bait and the two squared off.

Last man standing was Clinton.

Ohhhh, its REAL issues you want discussed. You mean like capital gains taxes? Total and complete flub by the tyro senator from Illinois; stammering, stuttering, backpedaling flub. I turned away from the screen I was so embarrassed for him.

Correction:

``When Tim Russert, MSNBC and CNN are there to punch for you, on the spot, it sure is fun watching a fair fight.''

Correct:

When Tim Russert, MSNBC and CNN are not there to punch for you, on the spot, it sure is fun watching a fair fight.

lionred,

Almost a nice trolling, but not quite. The flag pin thing was a dead give away. The other issues you mention, as spurious as they are, do have some (limited) salience for some people, albeit mainly people who would never vote for either Obama or Clinton int he first place, But you over reached with the flag pin comment. No one in the United States actually thinks that that is a real issue.

More generally,

As more media reports on the debate become available, it's becoming increasingly obvious that the spin is neutral or pro Obama. I'm sure you Hillary dead enders will take that as further evidence that the media is biased against The Monster, but whatever. Your hope that this latest kneecapping is going to hurt Obama's candidacy seems destined to be dashed.

Obama should stick to saying "present" every time he gets a question. Hillary turned him into a jigsaw puzzle.

Revealing that Obama has terrorist friends is supposed to hurt him in a Democrat primary???? I don't think so.

Marc,

Shit for brains, the fact that the debate was broadcast nationwide doesn't mean people tuned in. This was the 22nd Dem debate, or thereabouts. Most normal people didn't tune in. To the extent that they even know or care that there was a debate, they will check out the headlines to see what happened tomorrow. And sadly for the many McCainiacs trolling in this thread, and the few legitimate deluded Hillary supporters, the media narrative doesn't reflect your bizarre anti-Obam take on the debate.

The Mortgage meltdown has shaken many of the Republican faithful. The previously upwardly mobile are suddenly the new homeless!

The Dollar has reached an all time low against the Euro. Oil Prices are at their highest level ever.

Now more Americans have died, chasing terrorists where none existed before, through bad intelligence or hidden agenda then on 9/11 and the war is already 1000% over budget.

And now John McCain wants his bucket wish...

I can't figure out how William Ayres is relevant to anything, but Mark Penn and Bill Clinton taking hundreds of thousands of dollars from Colombian trade groups is not? Oh, and the fact that he and Obama sat on the same charity board? What about Hillary sitting on the Walmart board for years and talking about how proud she was to represent Walmart -- one of the most anti-union, misogynistic corporations in the history of American commerce?

The question of Obama were blatantly biased and the interest of the Country was not served by rehashing old stuff that were discussed to death. Some questions from ABC were planted. They should have acted as an honest broker. Shame on ABC. Only at second half anything meaningful was discussed.

I suppose the debate was very substantive but these things have a way of growing legs in the long run. There are so many bits to be garnered from this debate that the RNC could make feature film-sized campaign commercials from them.

Will it hurt Obama in the candidacy, probably not though the topics it discussed will certainly hound him. The best case scenario is a brokered convention and then the dogs will really be let loose.

In the general, Obama is digging himself quite the hole. Its still white males who are the deciding factor and with Obama's gaffes sure to be constant reminders in the campaign commercials, those males are probably going to tilt McCain. Add in the dispirited Hillary supporters and its over.

Obama was cool, collected, calm, and composed under a vulgar and vicious coordinated right-ring media assault. He made George and Charlie look like morons (especially George -- Obama just totally took him down on the Ayers question). He also displayed an appropriate sense of controlled anger at the inanity and vacuity of the quesions. It was incredibly insulting to the public to press questions again and again on Wright, which everyone is bored to tears with and feels no interest about.

The economy is imploding, and Gibson moans at length about capital gains taxes. He was such an utterly ignorant buffoon, and it was wonderful to see him booed by the audience at the end.

Obama won hands down and is even ahead on Drudge's online poll: 62 to 38 percent. These are the wingers voting too.

I certainly will never watch ABC news again. How can I ever look at Charles Gibson without remembering the vicious McCarthyite attack he helped orchestrate on a noble and gifted leader of America? The Kremlinesque questioning of the first hour of the debate would have made Stalin proud. Even Clinton seemed astonished and slightly crestfallen by the vacuity and viciousness of the moderators.

Obama does not wear flag pins . . . He is unpatriotic!

"Does your pastor love his country as much as you Obama?" (laughter)

Marc Ambinder is a fool and shouldn't be hosting a blog devoted to politics. Politics has gone viral on the internet and has reached far beyond the sphere of the ordinary deluge of lies and trivialities the MSM indulges in. A blogger ought to know better than to mimic such antediluvian modes of discourse. Ambinder truly shows himself to be a mental invertebrate and a disgusting hypocrite in this post.

Oh, and PS: Obama picked up another super delegate tonight. The monies will be pooring into his coffers, and ABC will lose thousands of viewers. Tremendously positive evening for Obama and a public relations nightmare for ABC and Disney Corporation!

everyone knows hillary has a character flaw, ie untrustworthy, meanspirited vicious, dishonest, lying, old had

Snobama lost plain and simple. I agree with Mel, obamaniacs are scary, if they are what hope and change are about then count me out.
Snobama has no one to blame but himself, he lied about the gun questionaire, he stumbled over wright and disown him, oops his words and the ayers mess.
Don't blame the media blame snobama.

Hee hee, Obama's numbers went up the moment his association with Ayers made headlines.

It seems the more Obama associates with stir-fried nutjobs the more his supporters frantically hump his leg.

And so goes the spin.

You just keep saying it, "Obama won, Obama won".

Sure, he might have won...for lack of a better term...but it will be pyrrhic. His lack of experience is shining through and the repubs are going to innundate him with the same messages that the dems used to support Kerry in 2004.

No DFL combat vets this time around, though I expect that demand will suddenly become irrelevant to the left.

We don't need any pundits to tell us who won the debate. All we need do is look at the vile comments that the Obamabots are sending to ABC. That tells you right there that Hillary (our 44th President) wiped the floor with the Hamas-Endorsed Obama.

Way to go, Hillary!

If Hillary wins the nomination it will make Rush Limbaugh happier than 100 tabs of Oxycontin!

It's an ObamaNation:

Barak Hussein Obama is U.N.Patriotic.

He campaigns for Odinga, his cousin in Kenya, using tax payer dollars in 2006.

His cousin lost the presidency of Kenya just like ObamaNation will lose his run for president here.

When Odinga lost his run, Odinga's Muslim supporters murdered Christians by burning down churches.

When sHillary beats ObamaNation with her superdelegates, Hussein's Black supporters will start race-riots in Denver.


Brother ... Like Brother ...


Come on you Nigs! Wake Up! Stop supporting slavery by submitting to your Dim-Wit-O-Crat masters.

Get Off the plantation.

Good Slave masters always provide for their slaves -- The health Care ... the Shelter ... The Welfare ... the Food stamps ...

But when you take what the master gives ... YOU Loose the Liberty that God Gives!

Get off the Obama-Mama Plantation and dump the Dim's in the ash-bin of history where they belong.

Democrat party is the party of slavery. The Republicans defeated them during the Civil war.

Now rather than enslaving the flesh ... they enslave the soul.

If you're black and you're democrat then you are nothin' more than a voluntary slave serving the Master who promises to provide you with everything while destroying your very own soul.


Curse the Democrat party for destroying the liberty of a black man and making the black-mamma into a hoe.


GET OFF THE OBAMA-HUSSEIN-INSANE SLAVE-NATION YOU NIGS!!!

ABC "News" did Obama a huge favor tonight by stacking the questions so blatantly against him. The East Coast media are going to to get their asses handed to them next week in Pennsylvania.

It is a ridiculous game to award these debates with winners and losers. It's almost entirely subjective. You get better, non-biased judging at Olympic figure skating events.

What IS obvious is that there was one big loser in Philly tonight - and that was ABC News. Thanks to Charlie and George, a big ugly spotlight has been shined on the sorry state our major TV news media has become. Even Fox News couldn't have done worse.

First comes Dim's then comes poverty.


Detroit ...

Prosperity
30 years of Dim-o-crat governance.

Poverty

Nude Orleans ...

Prosperity
30 years of Dim-o-crat governance.

Poverty

Buffalo New York
Pittsburg
Newark NJ
Hartford CT

Prosperity
30 years of Dim-o-crat governance.

Poverty.

Capitalists produce prosperity that the dim-ocrats destroy with their envy based policies.


First comes Dims then comes poverty.


A vote for O-Bama-Nation is a vote for despair and poverty.

WAKE UP YOU NIGS!!!!


DIM'S WANT YOU TO MURDER YOUR OWN BABIES THAT'S WHY THEY PUT PLANNED PARENTHOOD ABORTION FACTORIES IN ALL BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS.


Dim's Want you poor and uneducated .. Otherwise you'd have no need to vote DIM!

Throw away the nipple-ring and stop sucking the milk of the Slave_Mamma which is the Dim-Wit-O-Crat party.

No one who votes Dim-o-crat can become prosperous, free, and happy.


WAKE UP YOU NIGS! GET OFF THE SLAVE PLANTATION.

My poor Nigs! stuck in the slave plantation of the Dim-O-crat party.


Slavers give their slaves shelter otherwise the slave will get sick and be unable to work.

Slavers give their slaves health care ... otherwise the slave will be too ill to work.

Slavers give their slaves allowances (minimum wages)... otherwise the slave has no incentive to work. (In this case the Dim's make sure capitalist opportunities to achieve prosperity leave the slave hood as companies don't choose higher regulated areas ... thus Dim's assure no jobs in the slave-hood)

Slavers keep their slaves from breeding ... otherwise the slave will care more about their family than the work of the master. (In this age the slavers put abortion clinics in the slave-hood ... otherwise the slaves might have family that decides to get out of the plantation)

My poor Nigs ... The Dim-ocrats once slaved you on the cotton plantation!

Now the Dims slave you in the SlaveHood ... for your vote.


WAKE UP ...MY POOR NIGS... STOP VOTING SLAVER!

Give me a break. This debate was pathetic and to say Clinton bested Obama is about as silly and absurd as saying Charles Gibson is concerned about pocketbook issues.

I am more and more convinced that the class of people filling the airwaves and newspapers are utterly incapable of understanding a very fundamental concept: we want solutions to our problems, not more of your biased opinion!

It takes no courage at all to congratulate the guy you're going to meet at a cocktail party next week for asking "excellent" questions!

You need to check your work before you post it. It appears as if you put this up in haste, not giving it the serious forethought and attention criticism requires to be heeded.

I found the post-debate poll (see below) on ABC's own website, so it's still in progress. Note how ABC's overtly biased and inane 'interrogation' of Obama seems to have backfired on both ABC and Billary, due to Obama's ability to show such presidential composure even with these two truly elitist, incompetent, and impotent has-beens (Rose and Snuggle-up-agus, or Billary -- take your pick) -- pompously and cynically ignoring REAL issues concerning PA voters and instead pandering to the lowest common denominator (read: Billary and their mindless ilk) by focusing almost exclusively on NON-ISSUES, focusing instead on those pseudo-issues involving only Obama (what about Mark Penn? CAFTA-gate? an endless list if Clinton was subjected to the same lines of attack). This tranparent exercise in attempted character assassination would have made Billary weep, lash out, and/or cry "foul" in real time -- yet Obama remained both dignified and graceful and stayed WAY above the fray -- voters are not suckers, ABC, as evidenced by their overwhelmingly positive review of his performance below.

WHO WON THE DEMOCRATIC DEBATE?

Democratic Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama squared off ahead of next week's crucial Pennsylvania primary.

Who won the Democratic debate?

Sen. Barack Obama: 20,750/
Sen. Hillary Clinton: 7,265/
It was a tie: 2,179/
Total Vote: 30,194

Good to see all the Clintonistas out in full force tonight.

I didn't think either did horribly tonight, but I was disgusted with the line of questioning when we are faced with such huge problems. But I've got an idea that should please everyone here...

How about, if we are going to be held captive to this guilt by association mess, we ask ALL the candidates about ALL their associates and what they have ever said or done that is out of the norm? I think we've seen that Obama has a few interesting folks in his past...how about the Clintons? Think they have any? How about we ask about them?

And McCain shouldn't be left out of this game...wonder if he has any weirdos in his closet? Think we should ask him?

When we're done with that maybe we could actually discuss the fact that Hillary tonight said she would put the Middle East on the same standing as Europe...we'll be retaliating forcefully to any country that gets aggressive with any country in the region....whoa nelly...that's war forever!

Good grief folks...we're in a world of hurt in this nation and we have moderators obsessed with who knows what person and what that person said or did and we have candidates willing to wage war forever...this nation is doomed.

Vote hope, not fear.

Somebody earlier posted Sen. Obama might get a "sympathy bounce". Senator Obama needs a sympathy bounce? He needs to be summarily bounced out of this race. He was tired? Senator Clinton is 15 years older than him and runs on 22 hour days, too -- do you think she's off getting a manicure? No -- she is always prepared, always informed, always ready to go. Just what we need in a president. If he can't handle it, don't you think he needs to go back to Chicago and get some more experience. He is not ready. He showed that tonight.

The presidency is one endless pressure cooker -- those who have been trying to protect and defend him from any scrutiny have not been doing the Senator any favors.

What kind of koolaid is everyone drinking -- if voters of any stripe give him a "sympathy bounce" then they deserve what they get -- we are not voting on "Survivor" here and who gets voted off the island on some TV show. This is for the Presidency -- you know, the hardest most high pressure job in the world.

Somebody earlier posted Sen. Obama might get a "sympathy bounce". Senator Obama needs a sympathy bounce? He needs to be summarily bounced out of this race. He was tired? Senator Clinton is 15 years older than him and runs on 22 hour days, too -- do you think she's off getting a manicure? No -- she is always prepared, always informed, always ready to go. Just what we need in a president. If he can't handle it, don't you think he needs to go back to Chicago and get some more experience. He is not ready. He showed that tonight.

The presidency is one endless pressure cooker -- those who have been trying to protect and defend him from any scrutiny have not been doing the Senator any favors.

What kind of koolaid is everyone drinking -- if voters of any stripe give him a "sympathy bounce" then they deserve what they get -- we are not voting on "Survivor" here and who gets voted off the island on some TV show. This is for the Presidency -- you know, the hardest most high pressure job in the world.

Why bother boycotting FOX News when you can show up for a debate on ABC, and get the exact same questions and get treated the exact came way? Shallow, irrelevant, "gotcha" questions, that weren't so much designed to draw out details about policies or issues, but verbal traps designed to attack and "catch" the candidates in some verbal gaffe that can then be spun and replayed over and over to crank up ratings.

Disgraceful. FOX News has NOTHING on ABC. I'm disgusted.

Here is what I agree with most in the comments:

That's exactly right.

Marc, you've lost mine. First you spin "Bittergate" to high heaven while pretending it's "the media driving it" and now you defend this moronic hatchet job.

This is journalism? I am sick of it.

That was truly disgusting. If Annie thinks she got some votes on that one she had better do another shot of Canadian whiskey.

I think you're pretty far off the mark this go, Mr. Ambinder. This claim:

"And questions about his personal associations, his character, his personal beliefs, his statements at private fundraisers -- the answers to these questions tell us a lot."

Is patently ludicrous.

This is the kind of thinking that had us all blathering about Al Gore's sighing in the 2000 debates. How in the hell does William Ayers have anything to do with Obama?

Watching Clinton jump on the bandwagon on the Ayers question made me want to wretch. Pathetic. No wonder so few of us hold her in high regard, she reminds me of Richard Nixon, really.

"But Hillary Clinton has a Reverse-Teflon problem: her negatives are up, and when she's perceived as the attacker, the attacks never seem to settle on Obama and always seem to boomerang back on her." So right, so right, so right!!!

Obama has been pandering to Americans everywhere, meanwhile he thinks them "bitter," his preacher thinks the country invented the AIDS virus to kill people of color and Obama never objected, but as soon as Hillary points out that this is not someone most people would want as President, the media turns on her and now she is the culprit, just like the hospital story of Trina Bachtel. (Please read: Health Care Horror Stories, By PAUL KRUGMAN New York TImes 4/11/08).

"Stories like those of Trina Bachtel and Monique White are common in America, but don’t happen in any other rich country — because every other advanced nation has some form of universal health insurance. We should, too.... After all the fuss, The Washington Post eventually conceded that “Bachtel’s medical tragedy began with circumstances very close to the essence” of Mrs. Clinton’s account.
And even more important, Mrs. Clinton was making a valid point about the state of health care in this country."

Please watch:
Sexism, Misogyny, Women's History & Hillary Clinton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eseoMOEaFnM

Hillary Clinton's Accomplishments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG-dkgaJ_7I


Trina Bachtel's death is a tragedy and it shows how horrible our healthcare system is that a pregnant lady is made to feel that she cannot go to a hospital because she owes $100. How can the culprit in this story be Hillary Clinton, who retold the story to illustrate what she has been fighting for: universal healthcare.

If any fence sitters read this comment site they would certainly get their minds made up rather quickly. "Harrier" and "LarryM," with their foul obscenities, their wishing a cruel and painful death upon those who disagree with them demonstrate a warped zealotry that would turn any reasonable person against the candidate they favor. "Man, I don't want ever to be on the same side as those guys," is the result. I read all 263 comments here with increasing discomfort. Is this what passes for political discourse these days. . . foul curses, disgraceful insults and death wishes? How sad for our beloved country. How sad for all of us.

Don't you think it's about time that the MSM asks direct questions about issues that have been dogging Obama for some time now...the mighty rev, William Ayres, "bitter" comments said behind closed doors, not wearing the flag pin etc etc etc? Everyone in the MSM has given Obama a free ride so far and Obama thought tonight would be another walk in the park. Not so, and he was certainly not prepared for the direct questions. If Obama can't handle it now, maybe he should drop out.

The Obama supporter are hilarious. It is no wonder that Barack Obama feels America is bitter. Most Obama supporters are very bitter people. How is it that the moderators of the debate are against Obama because they ask him tough questions?
Superdelegates, please look at this! Does anyone think that the Republicans are going to be nice and sweet to Barack in the fall IF he is the nominee? Good grief are all Obama supporters 21 and 22?

The Obama supporters are hilarious. It is no wonder that Barack Obama feels America is bitter. Most Obama supporters are very bitter people. How is it that the moderators of the debate are against Obama because they ask him tough questions?
Superdelegates, please look at this! Does anyone think that the Republicans are going to be nice and sweet to Barack in the fall IF he is the nominee? Good grief are all Obama supporters 21 and 22?

If you want to make a difference, then get out and vote and get everyone else out to do the same.

Quit talking and start doing.

Have you volunteered to help turn the vote out? What are you doing?

What am I doing? Just wait until it comes here to WV! No. I want you to get out and vote.

You can Sit on your ass, write a few things on the bloggs, and live with it. You have not a life if you do not vote.

Or, do something.

Clinton was the pinata for the first bunch of debates, and now, since Obama is the front runner, he took some shots. The Obama people, who have been calling Clinton a crybaby all of these months, are now apoplectic that The One has been questioned (and has no answers) on his own leanings and his past. If Obama completely failed to answer a fair question now from Gibson, lame Charlie Gibson, how exactly is he going to survive the general election?

Obama in this election is starting to look like the unnamed guy in Captain Kirk's landing party when they land on a strange planet- you know, the one whose demise is pre-ordained.

Barack Obama's thin-skinned supporters should consider their candidate lucky that Charles Gibson and George Stephanopolis didn't ask him questions about his association with controversial Iraqi-born billionaire Nadhmi Auchi, who's sinced been banned from this country, and of whom Obama's on record last March 15 saying that he doesn't recall ever meeting him.

Unfortunately, testimony offered in Tony Rezko's federal corruption two days ago places Obama at a party at Rezko's house on April 3, 2004 when Auchi was the guest of honor, and it's further been reported in the Chicago Sun-Times today that Obama himself offered several toasts to Auchi at the event.

Considering how the Obama campaign tried to paint Clinton as a whiner when she complained about a media bias, I think it's entertaining how loudly Obama supporters cry out when the shoe is on the other foot. While I think it is a legitimate complaint that the debate should have focused more on issues, the fact of the matter is that these "political" questions will be relevant for the general election. Do Democrats really want to go into the general not knowing how a candidate will react under the pressure of right wing swift-boating? I think John McCain is highly respectable, but that does not mean that the Republican party won't throw anything and everything at the nominee.

I also do not believe that the debate unfairly focused on Obama. Obama is the odds on favorite to win the nomination. It's not like to Obama campaign has not tried to call this race over. If the race is really "over" like the Obama supporters think it should be, then it's only right that the primary focus be on Obama, not Clinton. There's a reason why Kucinich and Gravel never faced a lot of intense media scrutiny.

Sorry Obama supporters, you can't have it both ways. Considering your past positions on the media and your current positions on the state of the race, all this whining just makes you look hypocritical (where's this new politics I keep hearing about?). Your candidate had a bad night. Accept it and move on.

Lets just wait and see what the Super Delegates do. I live in Michigan so my vote didn't count..
After all those S.D.'s will select our candidate.

Folks a big alarm went off last night. If you didn't hear it, you should have briefly pull your heads from your anal cavities, this man is not qualified to be the President of the United States. For eight years we have had a clueless clown in the White House, our country cannot survive another whacked out want-to-be. Obama, Please drop out of the race for the good of the Democratic Party and America, you cannot win and we don't need you.

At one point during the debate I actually saw Hillary give Obama a look of sympathy. Hillary is not a robot. She knows her policy positions better than McCain and Obama. She can answer any question thrown at her (She was on Mad Money with Crawford. He asked tough questions about the federal budget and other money issues. She answered everyone and taught me a thing ot two.) I watched the debate as well as tracked the undecideds feelings Hillary performed much better according to the undecideds than Obama. He actually bombed a couple of questions with the voters. While Hillary remained pretty even with the undecided voters and even pegged the meter once. It was truly the undecided voters who told the tale of the debate not those of us who were not so personally involved. According to the undecided voters Senator Clinton performed better.

There is something that really surprises me about Senator Obama...and that he answers questions in a very hesitant manner...using a great deal of uhms in his answers. I expect more from a man who can give a "good" speech. I have to pose a question here. Do you want a president who says uhm when he is asked tough questions or someone who can answer the question without hesitancy. Yes. Senator Obama looked bad.

All this whining!!!!! "Oh the establishment!" blah blah "Oh the media" blah, blah. Welcome to politics Barrack. It must be hard to realize that your free ride with the media is over? I guess it's those chickens finally coming home to roost...

I left the debate halfway. Reading your take of it, especially your attention-grabbing headline, I thought Obama had a major meltdown in the second part. So I viewed the video of the entire debate. There was nothing even close to what you have written. What's the problem with you?

Go back and view the debate again. You'll be surprised.

It's interesting that the pro-Hillary Marc Ambinder actually has the gall to use the hyperbolic phrase that "there's no way Obama could [have][sic]fared worse."

Oh really...I can think of about a thousand or so ways in which any candidate could have fared far worse.

This was not a bad performance by Obama. I think those who view as such are ironically "elitist."

But most importantly, I think those who view it as such are simply judging by the fact that the moderators asked so many dumb questions of him in the beginning. Well, it's not his fault that the moderators thought the American people would be more interested in flag pins rather than healthcare or the price of gas or getting out of Iraq or fighting the war on terror or capturing bin Laden or etc....

And I think the major sound bite of the night is Hillary saying that Obama can win. That totally undercuts her argument to the superdelegates.

Marc, give us an example of similar scrutiny given o McCain by media. Can you? Media licks McCain all over all the time. Doesn't it?

Um, how about a front page New York Times story about an anonymous allegation that 8 years ago, there hypothetically may have been the potential for the appearence of impropriety between McCain and a lobbyist.

Obama has been getting an easy ride and when the going gets just a little rough (not nearly as bad as it is going to get when he is the nominee from the Republicans), then he stumbles, whines and gets defensive. Are you kidding? How in the world does anyone, except the young and naive, think this guy is ready to be president? What a loser. Senator McCain will quietly, in a gentlemanly fashion, wipe the floor with him. We Democrats better hope and pray Hillary gets the nomination, or we are going to get another 4 years of trickle down economics and war.

As another poster said, "Pro-War then Anti-war, Pro-Nafta then Anti-Nafta, Pro-gun control now Happy Hunter, Pro-Colombian interests now Anti-Colombian interests and now she has also found religion.."

All of these Hi-lie-ry contradictions and lies and the Clinton lackies Gibson and Stephanopolous attack Obama instead. To quote a famous Republican Supreme Court justice, it was a public lynching of Obama.

Irish for O'bama! Obama-Gore, Gore-Obama or even Obama-Pelosi '08!

As Chris said above, Obama has called those who suffer from mental illnesses "Menatally Deranged." He didn't just say it in his answer at the debate, last night, but he has said it over and over again. Please go here for some more information:

http://www.flishfun.com/blog/real-world/obama-keep-guns-away-from-the-mentally-deranged/

As said above, he says stuff like that "And then he expects these people to vote for him?!" Incredible.

Ridiculous.

That was not a debate, it was a stage for Steph and Wilson. And they used their stage to ask a series of tabloid-journalism questions.

What if EVERYONE wore flag pins? Then the size of the flage would be the critical factor; maybe Obama could walk around with a huge flag (like those school flags at college football games)to demonstrate (flaunt?) his "patriotism."

Remember the hypocrites in Matthew 6:4-6

No winners tonight.
Loser: ABC "news"

I hope the next debate is on TMZ.

Sure, bobbleheads like Sullivan and Ambinder are clutching their pearls and saying Obama did badly. That was NOT the reaction of the focus groups, who reacted to him very positively throughout. He seemed solid, reasonable and pretty much refused to play the gotcha game. Too many pundits took his calm, reasoned answers as somehow poor or tired, but I suspect the average voter found him dignified and honest. Clinton did try and play the gotcha game, and did it poorly - not so much Rottweiler as Chihuahua. Overall, Obama will probably be seen as "winning" this inane exercise in wingnut masturbation by the voters on the street. His supporters will be energized by fury, and the money will come rolling in Why anyone should think that debating these issues matter to people who care about the economy, God knows, but I don't think ABC's attempt to play us for suckers succeeded.

“That totally undercuts her argument to the superdelegates.”

...as well as the Clintonites who say he is "unelectable."

I just goes to show that there really is no thought put into the sloganeering that goes into the points and counter-point used by the Clinton campaign and her loyalists to denigrate the Obama campaign. It’s simply mindless mudslinging.

But seriously, the Democrat party has already lost this election. Better start working on your "Pres. McCain" protest sign, because that's where you are heading. The party is divided against itself and we all know (at least I HOPE we all know) what Lincoln has said about a house divided.

As an independent, after watching Democrats implode over the course of this primary election I come to a chilling conclusion: Republicans are wrong, but smart; Democrats are right, but stupid. I wish there was a less blunt way to put that, but it is nevertheless true.

Isn’t there anyone with sense anymore?

The idea that Obama shouldn't have to answer for all this is ridiculous. If this had been addressed long ago like it shoul dhave been, then Obama wouldn't be facing this now. What more is out there? What else got scrubbed? He is scary.

His Ayers answer...my god. I don't care if he bombed buildings, government or otherwise, 20 years before I was born. If I am wanting to be President (and by the way, If I'm not wanting to be President either) I avoid him, his neighbor, his kindergarten teacher and his dog's puppies like they were the plaque. NOT because I'm running for President but because what he did is heinous and against the land I love.

I don't care if he wasn't punished legally, it doesn't make him not guilty, especially when he admits it, boasts about if and says they didn't do enough and he regrets that.

Just think...Ayers is only ONE issue that Obama needs to answer for.

No Obama! No way!

The idea that Obama shouldn't have to answer for all this is ridiculous. If this had been addressed long ago like it shoul dhave been, then Obama wouldn't be facing this now. What more is out there? What else got scrubbed? He is scary.

His Ayers answer...my god. I don't care if he bombed buildings, government or otherwise, 20 years before I was born. If I am wanting to be President (and by the way, If I'm not wanting to be President either) I avoid him, his neighbor, his kindergarten teacher and his dog's puppies like they were the plaque. NOT because I'm running for President but because what he did is heinous and against the land I love.

I don't care if he wasn't punished legally, it doesn't make him not guilty, especially when he admits it, boasts about it and says they didn't do enough and he regrets that.

Just think...Ayers is only ONE issue that Obama needs to answer for.

No Obama! No way!

The idea that Obama shouldn't have to answer for all this is ridiculous. If this had been addressed long ago like it shoul dhave been, then Obama wouldn't be facing this now. What more is out there? What else got scrubbed? He is scary.

His Ayers answer...my god. I don't care if he bombed buildings, government or otherwise, 20 years before I was born. If I am wanting to be President (and by the way, If I'm not wanting to be President either) I avoid him, his neighbor, his kindergarten teacher and his dog's puppies like they were the plaque. NOT because I'm running for President but because what he did is heinous and against the land I love.

I don't care if he wasn't punished legally, it doesn't make him not guilty, especially when he admits it, boasts about it and says they didn't do enough and he regrets that.

Just think...Ayers is only ONE issue that Obama needs to answer for.

No Obama! No way!

Tricia, that's retarded. If we employed your logic then every single politician -- including McCain and both Clintons -- would be prohibited from running for office.

Oh, the fury that for once the media wasn't in the tank for Obama and the Dems generally, but actually threw tough, unfair questions from the other side!

A taste of what outliers from the liberal consensus have to deal with every day in our monoculture. If only they'd had some college sophomore calling them fascists every twenty seconds, it would have been like a normal day on the internet for me.

This debate was the best preparation for the general election the Dems have been afforded yet. Syria or Iran won't throw softballs like Chris Matthews or Jim Lehrer does, either.

Wow. The Obama-messiah got a couple semi-tough questions and comes across with a pissed off demeanor. He doesn't seem very Presidential.

Clinton and Obama are both under-cover operatives working for the election of McCain in November. You heard it here first.

The DEM debates are pure gold for McCain. McCain can extract a few choice clips from these debates and run them over and over in the Fall. The DEM nominees will be doomed by their own words.

AWWWW, Poor Obama!!!! Ha,ha... For people crying about the "harsh" treatment Obama got last night---would you all like some cheese with that "whine"??? What a joke, they're BOTH phony!!! Politicians are inherently chameleon-like---the two of them take it to levels never-before-seen. The reason it seemed so difficult for Obama is because it was!!! Finally, after 15 months of pandering to the "messiah" by the mainstream media he got asked some tough questions... He has a plethora of major issues he has to answer about---and to this point he has been an abject failure in doing so---period. Honestly, if the GOP can't turn either one of these fakes inside-out in the general---they really don't even DESERVE to win the White House in November

I've heard and read sufficient to know that without a doubt Obama is the greatest Leader for America. But while I support him, and cannot do otherwise but vote for him, there is that part of me that suggests that should Obama be the POTUS, who will protect him from those who shall willingly wish to harm him - and why? No one can say as yet why they killed Kennedy - and the 'powers that be', while they know, they will never let on. Do I want Obama to be martyed for this Nation? No.

So while I believe in my heart that Obama is the only candidate who can bring us out of the mess we're in, my question - is America willing to accept what is being offered, or would America prefer to sink more and more with the 'same ol' politics of the past? Or would they rather kill the potential help offered with Obama.

If you believe all that, Maria, then surely you must believe that on the third day, He'll rise again.

Nomination battles that become bitter, bitchy, street fights doom the political party that engages in them to defeat in the general election. History is a good teacher. Political parties who ignore it do so at their own peril.

God, this thread is disgusting. This is the Democrats' race to lose, and we are going to lose it. And when we do, I really am moving to Europe this time.

After watching that "debate", one thing is for sure, McCain will be President and there isn't a darn thing any of us can do about it. #%^#^ Neighbor up the street took both of his Obama signs out of his yard and bumper stickers off both the car and their van. This is in Cincinnati Ohio that Democrats has to have – won’t happen. “Yes we can” has gone to “no we can't “

It sounds like a lot of people haven't watched ABC news very much. I used to, and it became clear to both me and my wife that ABC was "Hillary TV". We started rating the coverage. Hillary would be shown in 2 or 3 positive quotes, Obama in one highly truncated one. Kate Snow was all moist and dewy over Hillary week after week. And the Rev. Wright story was "broken" by Brian Ross, but he never once mentioned that Obama had addressed this a full year earlier. He conveniently left that part out. We finally had enough and gave up on them.

The fact that an ABC run debate was an Obama hatchet job was completely predictable, though I am a bit disappointed in Stephanopoulos. On his Sunday show, he has generally managed to be very balanced, and has been no Hillary sycophant. I guess ABC just gave the marching orders; we want sleaze over substance.

Obama is running on the belief that GOP style attacks won't work in this election. He believes and is gambling that the general election does not have to be fought under Republican ground rules--even though the media knows no other way.

Clinton argues that the politics haven't changed, the media will remain influential and the only way to win is to campaign like Republicans.

I have no idea who is right. But if Clinton is right what do we gain by nominating her?

Because it does not matter what a Democratic presdient does in office if they don't change the politics. Any good they accomplish will simply enable the Republicans to do that much worse when they come back to power. Look at what happened to the surplus Clinton had. It was used as an excuse to pursue more Reaganomics.

Because it makes no sense for a President Clinton to balance the budget, we will get deficits under Clinton just like we did under Bush. If the politics haven't changed then Clinton will have to maintain the status quo in Iraq for just like her husband did.

In other words if Clinton is right then we are stuck with trickle down economics, endless wars, corporate rule etc for the rest of our lives and there is nothing we can do about it because the nature of our politics prevents meaningful action.

In this is true we might as well have Republicans in office as it doesn't matter in the long run--we will get to the same place regardless of who sits in the White House. This is what the whole "hope" message is about.

"Hope" argues that Americans are not so decadent and demoralized as to be incapbable of anything other than the politics of despair--endless arguments about "deck chair" issues as the ship of state goes under.

If "Hope" is right this means than when the Republican attack machine attacks the "Hope" candidate, as we all know it will, the attacks will result in the attacker moving down in the polls. The GOP campaign strategists, unable to fathom this, will stumble around while their candidate goes down in flames. It will be their turn to experience what it is like to run against a teflon candidate.

If the Hope theme is correct then obviously what all Democrats would want is for Obama to be the nominee. If Clinton is right obviously career Democratic operatives would want Clinton to win because this will be good for their careers.

For rank and file Democrats is matters less as we get a choice between a more subdued Republicanism now (if McCain wins) or a more forceful Republicanism later (if Clinton wins).

I see taking a risk on the Hope theme as worht it. Others may disagree. But the decision is not our. It will be up to the career people (super delegates) to decide, which makes sense as they have the most to lose by selecting the wrong nominee. It will be up to them to determine whether or not Clinton is right.

This is why I have always opposed Clinton withdrawing and supported her throwing the kitchen sink. The only way to test whether hope or the Clinton thesis is correct is to see how Obama response to "test dirt" hurled at him by the Clintons. If he weather the storm and does well against Clinton in the subsequent contests then I expect Clinton will withdraw and Obama will be the nominee. If Clinton does well in the final contests then the superdelegate might flock to her and their will be a decision to make at the convention.

Sidestepping the massive flame war above... Let me address the central thesis of this Ambinalysis...

"...the artificial distinction between politics, personality and policy doesn't exist in this league, and if you're uncomfortable with it, then change the rules or don't run for office."

Wait a second, Marc, how else can you change the rules but by running for the highest office in the land while maintaining that there should be some distinction, and then WINNING? If there's another way I'd like to know what it is.

Further, the distinction is not between politics, personality and policy, it's between relevant questions and asinine inanities.

Okay, you all may return to shouting in each others' direction about who sucks worse.

Obama is running on the belief that GOP style attacks won't work in this election. He believes and is gambling that the general election does not have to be fought under Republican ground rules--even though the media knows no other way.

Clinton argues that the politics haven't changed, the media will remain influential and the only way to win is to campaign like Republicans.

I have no idea who is right. But if Clinton is right what do we gain by nominating her?

Because it does not matter what a Democratic presdient does in office if they don't change the politics. Any good they accomplish will simply enable the Republicans to do that much worse when they come back to power. Look at what happened to the surplus Clinton had. It was used as an excuse to pursue more Reaganomics.

Because it makes no sense for a President Clinton to balance the budget, we will get deficits under Clinton just like we did under Bush. If the politics haven't changed then Clinton will have to maintain the status quo in Iraq for just like her husband did.

In other words if Clinton is right then we are stuck with trickle down economics, endless wars, corporate rule etc for the rest of our lives and there is nothing we can do about it because the nature of our politics prevents meaningful action.

In this is true we might as well have Republicans in office as it doesn't matter in the long run--we will get to the same place regardless of who sits in the White House. This is what the whole "hope" message is about.

"Hope" argues that Americans are not so decadent and demoralized as to be incapbable of anything other than the politics of despair--endless arguments about "deck chair" issues as the ship of state goes under.

If "Hope" is right this means than when the Republican attack machine attacks the "Hope" candidate, as we all know it will, the attacks will result in the attacker moving down in the polls. The GOP campaign strategists, unable to fathom this, will stumble around while their candidate goes down in flames. It will be their turn to experience what it is like to run against a teflon candidate.

If the Hope theme is correct then obviously what all Democrats would want is for Obama to be the nominee. If Clinton is right obviously career Democratic operatives would want Clinton to win because this will be good for their careers.

For rank and file Democrats is matters less as we get a choice between a more subdued Republicanism now (if McCain wins) or a more forceful Republicanism later (if Clinton wins).

I see taking a risk on the Hope theme as worht it. Others may disagree. But the decision is not our. It will be up to the career people (super delegates) to decide, which makes sense as they have the most to lose by selecting the wrong nominee. It will be up to them to determine whether or not Clinton is right.

This is why I have always opposed Clinton withdrawing and supported her throwing the kitchen sink. The only way to test whether hope or the Clinton thesis is correct is to see how Obama response to "test dirt" hurled at him by the Clintons. If he weather the storm and does well against Clinton in the subsequent contests then I expect Clinton will withdraw and Obama will be the nominee. If Clinton does well in the final contests then the superdelegate might flock to her and their will be a decision to make at the convention.

It's so CUTE when Democrats find out the media is biased!

Honestly, if the GOP can't turn either one of these fakes inside-out in the general---they really don't even DESERVE to win the White House in November

Hey Delaware Vole, I guess you haven't been paying attention to John "Flip-Flop" McCain. He has to answer for his initial (seriously wrong) views on the Iraq war, his cheerleading at the Baghdad market (triggering the murders of 20+ people), his inability to actually define success or failure in Iraq, inability to keep Sunni and Shitte straight, and his inability to understand that Gen. Petraues is only in charge of forces in Iraq (not the entire theater). And that's his "strong" subject!

His obvious inability to comprehend anything about the economy is even worse. Bush's fuzzy math was bad enough in 2000, but McCain's is an order of magnitude worse. He'll make the Bush tax cuts permanent, cut more taxes, wipe out about $20 billion in earmarks, and make up a $400 billion budget shortfall ($700 billion if you count the trust fund money being "borrowed") by 2012. And a gas tax holiday? What friggin' genius talked him into THAT one?

The GOP has an unbelievably weak candidate. The amazing thing is that he was actually the strongest out of a herd of loser wannabe's the likes of which I've never seen. (Though I will throw a bone to Romney. While he was the most obvious panderer I've ever seen, even worse than Hillary, I think he could have been a competent executive.)

Hey LFC your side has lost 5 out of the last 7 elections. Soon to be 6 of 8... Not a good percentage for you guys. I agree, McCain is a pretty weak candidate. That being said, he'll most likely roll whoever your nominee is in November. That REALLY doesn't say much for your candidate.

Obama was attacked by everyone on that stage. You can say all you want to about how he will get the same sort of treatment in the general election, but I don't think it would be quite so vicious......Hillary, Charlie, and George all ganged up on him and he held his own. He will get roughed up a bit, but it will be more balanced. This is exactly what Obama wants to get away from, the pettiness, "gotcha" mentality, stupid season sort of political rhetoric. It was more of the same and even worse. No questions of substance, just a bunch of junk. Obama did maintain his integrity and treated Hillary with respect. He did not receive the same sort of treatment from anyone. I'm ashamed of ABC and will never watch that station again. You owe us all an apologize. You have done yourself a great dis-service to the American people and to your listeners.

The Ayers guestion now post 9/11 is facinating. There is a memorial to Bobby Sands in my town. I pass it on my way to work every day as it is in the middle of a traffic circle.Would anyone approve the same memorial now?
I remember reading Trinity again the summer before 9/11 and routing for the terrorists against the establishment but I also remember right after 9/11 that i felt a bit of shame at that.
A lot of us smugly thought the weather underground and SDS were okay because the war was so awful. We taught our kids about Ghandi and MLK jr but we kept alive this thrilling grey area.

Post 9/11 I don't think association with Ayers is okay. His comments post 9/11 certainly aren't okay. And even for a leftie like myself the rules and grey areas are different now.
Obama's ducking the question goes hand in hand with his denials about ever hearing Wright say his dumb shit, or wright giving awards to Louis F last year. I do believe in liberation theology even though I am not religious but wright is on the other side of it.
I read and loved cone's books years ago and still hold to some of their ideas and yet the effect of wright jumping up and down and going for the applause lines and spewing hatred is very different than reading cone's reasoned constructions and ideas.
And Obama's once extolled judgement deserves examination in light of these two profound lapses in association.

And Larry m. just to be clear it saddens me life has trusted you with a 6 year old girl to raise. I pity her and fear the effects of your arrogant spewing hate and bullying will have on her. the cartoon character you turn yourself into on line is a bizarre miscalculation.

I strongly believe that too little attention is given to the fact that Obama will not attack a Democrat the way Hillary does. It will be a different game with a Republican. An attack by Republicans is something he will respond to in a different manner than an attack from the Clintons. Too few people give him credit for this.

Pissed-off demeanor indeed.

Remind you of anyone else in office who was treated with kid gloves, coddled, and never got asked any tough questions?

Too bad we don't have a media with reporters who always ask the tough questions. Then narcissists like Bushie and Obama would definitely crack before they had a chance to get in a position of power.

Did Obama smile once? All I saw from him were grimaces and pursed lips. He only fares well with being worshipped for his staged plagiarized speeches.

Ask him about Auchi! He needs to answer for his lies. Ask Obama about his lie that he only worked for Rezko about "five hours" when in fact he saw him daily for years.

The tantrums the Obamabots are throwing is comical...nothing else about Obama is amusing in the least.

I guess now there's two TV networks Obama won't show up on. LOL!

"Obama will not attack a Democrat the way Hillary does."


Keep drinking the koolaid. Obama has done his level best to tear down the Clinton legacy, from the very beginning of the campaign. Here he keeps repeating about the "decades" of economic hardships, as if we didn't have two terms of peace and prosperity under Bill Clinton.

And he tried to zing Hillary with Bill's pardons of weathermen instead of addressing his own friendship with one.

And he mocked Hillary, onstage at a rally, calling her "Annie Oakley" as if Hillary is not entitled to her own, true family story...as opposed to the fairy tales Obama tells about his family.

What is wrong with the koolaid drinkers that they believe Obama's bull when he says he's "above it all" despite the evidence to the contrary every time Obama opens his piehole.

Marc,
I think you're right on the face of it--but wrong in the larger sense. To the folks that follow this stuff regularly (i.e. the elites, the bloggers, the politicos), Obama probably could have fared better. That being said, what we do know is that Hillary does well (think NH debate, compassion forum) when she shows her human face. Last night, we did not see that. Not at all. She was cool, calm and collected and--probably to many in the country--a bit too robotic. She's digging in to win the superdelegates (or so the MSM keeps telling us) but Obama keeps getting them on his side. The supers don't seem to want their party, the Democratic party, to be the mouthpiece of the Republican party. So, although I agree that this wasn't Obama's best showing, I think that by deflecting the attacks, and not getting embroiled in them, Obama is showing the supers that he wants the Dem party to take the high road. A road less traveled, but one that at this moment, in this elongated nomination process, might be the one that is preferred by the majority of the remaining supers. This strategy probably won't work against McCain, but his brilliant strategists know that and know that they can shift once they sow up the nomination.
Kishore

Nice try, Kishore. Then why did she get the two biggest laughs last night? One for saying she's amazed the republicans aren't too ashamed to run anyone for president, and the other for trying (and succeeding) to find something nice to say about Bushie.

But, of course, for those who missed the debate, there is a big push by Obamabots to reframe it.

If questions about character and associations tell us a lot about a candidate, why isn't McCain asked at every campaign stop and media klatsch about his hatred of people he calls "gooks", or about his abandonment of his injured first wife, or about the multiple drug and larceny related felonies committed by his current wife? Or about his association with George Bush, and his cooperation with him in securing immunity for torturers and war criminals? Aren't those associations too?

Nice try, Kishore. Then why did she get the two biggest laughs last night? One for saying she's amazed the republicans aren't too ashamed to run anyone for president, and the other for trying (and succeeding) to find something nice to say about Bushie.

But, of course, for those who missed the debate, there is a big push by Obamabots to reframe it.

To Senator Obama and all the whining Obamunists:

WELCOME TO THE NFL, ROOKIE.

What is good for the gander is good for the goose. Take it like a woman and stop cryin.

One thing that is a little disconcerting is the way Hillary supporters are rushing to embrace and validate the way ABC chose to conduct the debate.

I'm just a crazy libertarian, so I have no dog in the Democrat fight, but it seems to me that if Hillary supporters are going to stand up for the way ABC contributed to the ongoing debasement of our public debate, I never, ever, ever want to hear Hillary complain about that debasement ever again.

If Hillary secures the nomination, I don't want to hear any complaints if all election coverage is reduced to discussion of Monica's blue dress.

And I don't ever want to see an Ambinder post decrying a lack of media focus on some issue of importance to him. In this post he endorses, embraces, and unites with the entire history of political media in the US for the last half-century. It all belongs to him now, and he no longer has any grounds for complaint again. Ever.

Hey LFC your side has lost 5 out of the last 7 elections. Soon to be 6 of 8...

My side? Actually, I voted for Reagan twice and Bush I once. I was originally a registered Republican. I'm a fiscal conservative (LFC = Lifetime Fiscal Conservative) which is why I am no longer a Republican. I'll take "tax and spend" over "borrow and spend even more" any day.

The GOP looks even more dismal when you add in their performance on terrorism (thanks for protecting their finances, Phil Graham, who BTW is one of McCain's economic advisors), two f***ed up wars (one of which we needed to finish and the other we never should have started), financial regulation (or total lack thereof), education (NCLB was a good idea implemented badly), and on and on and on. Really, they have the worst political performance in my lifetime. Things were bad under Carter, and he wasn't much of a President, but at least he was dealt a crappy hand to start.

I'm really an anti-Republican rather than a Democrat. When (if?) the GOP ever comes back around to sanity, I could see supporting some of them again, but they've got a long way to go. But I won't hold my breath.

"She knows her policy positions better than McCain and Obama. She can answer any question thrown at her."

Barack is thoughtful and careful - look how two words have bounced around in the press for a week. He knows how the HRC campaign is praying for him to trip up. I call this a sign of intelligence. Hillary is good a reciting events and positions. Whether or not she agrees with them or whether or not they have actually occurred is less important to her.

I am purely for O. I expected Jack Tripper's network to give O a hard time (remember, ABC did the "investigative work" behind the Wright affair and released it on Good Morning America).

All said, the dirt tossed about has been stirring at Faux News for months and ABC has caught a few of their fleas. These trite issues are important for those less leisured than us bloggers who substitute symbols (flag pins) for behavior that sustains democracies such as opposing imperialistc, criminal wars. Gibson should have asked Barack if he gave up French fries after the invasion.

The sooner the dirt is out, the more practice he'll have brushing it off.

President Obama. Get used to it.

The media is pretty darn bad right now. The only ones that can report without getting down in the dirty trenches are NPR and PBS. A whole book needs to be written about "what's wrong with the media?" Better yet, why isn't there some discussion about the media and the way they are reporting this election in this column?

Yes, what happened to Obama last night was wrong, but I think it pales to the treatment he'll receive as the nominee, the media has done all they can to make him the nominee and are in knots trying to figure out why with them and the party establishment telling everyone not to vote for Hillary, they still are, it pisses them off, they're shaking their heads. Once the monster is out of the way, the Obama love affair ends. Now, there has been a full out assault from all sides for some time on Clinton and the previous debates have been nothing short of Hillary bashing extravaganzas, where was the outrage then?

Barry gonna set the rightwing idiots straight we he take control! Better get ready for some reducation you honky fools!

Amazing how many people don't get it.

1. Where were you all back in 2001 when ABC hired Stephanopolous? I remember some Repubs bitching, but not a peep from any Dems. Too late to cry foul, now, guys; now, it's just special pleading.

2. McCain was already picked over pretty good in 2000. He shouldn't and won't get a pass in 2008, but, no news value until it's him against someone in the fall. Then, I'm sure he will get PLENTY of scrutiny.

3. There are no significant policy differences between Hillary and Obama, so pursuing that line of questioning isn't productive or useful to the media or the electorate.

4. Hillary has been around in the public eye since 1992. Some love her, some hate her, but almost everyone has an opinion and feels they have a basis for their opinion. Obama is new and unknown, has very little of a public record or accomplishments, has never been seriously vetted at any level of politics. These kinds of questions are the only way we have of trying to figure out who he is and what kind of a President he would be, other than just taking his word for it. The little glimpses behind his curtain are troubling, and his ducking, weaving, dissembling, changing stories, etc. don't help any of these issues go away.

I just don't see why it is so hard to understand that.

It's not simply fair play to bash each candidate equally. Candidates should be bashed if they earn it. Clinton earned the attacks she received when she resorted to Republican-style political attacks and outright lies. We can only hope that the people of Pennsylvania will see it the way it actually was, and vote for Obama.

Do you proofread your entries? This article is a grammatical travesty.

I'm just a crazy libertarian, so I have no dog in the Democrat fight, but it seems to me that if Hillary supporters are going to stand up for the way ABC contributed to the ongoing debasement of our public debate, I never, ever, ever want to hear Hillary complain about that debasement ever again.

Thanks, you stated it perfectly. I am of the opinion after reading this thread that anyone, no matter what their leaning, who did not find the debate questioning itself abominably McCarthyesque, are the true traitors to Democracy.

I'm just a crazy libertarian, so I have no dog in the Democrat fight, but it seems to me that if Hillary supporters are going to stand up for the way ABC contributed to the ongoing debasement of our public debate, I never, ever, ever want to hear Hillary complain about that debasement ever again.

Thanks, you stated it perfectly. I am of the opinion after reading this thread that those people, no matter what their leaning, who did not find the debate questioning itself abominably McCarthyesque, are the true traitors to this democracy. Those who say Obama supporters are crying because he received "tough questions" are moronic. These weren't even questions so much as rehearsed talking points to inflame public sentiment against Obama. To assert otherwise is dishonest, but that sort of dishonesty is totally in keeping with Clinton supporters.

How dare the media ask real questions of Democrats!!!

Don't they know whose side they are supposed to be on?

I'm just a crazy libertarian, so I have no dog in the Democrat fight, but it seems to me that if Hillary supporters are going to stand up for the way ABC contributed to the ongoing debasement of our public debate, I never, ever, ever want to hear Hillary complain about that debasement ever again.

And I'm the Pope of Greenwich Village. Nice to see the Dems mobying each other.

Tonight was the first night that I was pleased that Obama was not pampered to death!
ABC did a good job, the msm has painted this man to be something he is not. He has a lot of unanswered questions, and without a script writer

I doubt we'll get any answers from him. He has no experience. People need to get their heads out of the clouds, we need someone running the country that is experienced. There is much more that will come out about this man. Thank God Hillary is still in, or we would have no one running against McCain.

Wake-up DNC. The answer is pretty clear, Hillary is definatley more electable than Obama. He is just full of hot air!

Posted by micky mouse | April 17, 2008 12:06 AM

I'll paraphrase Hilbilly She is so fond of saying everything is fair in an election! She has sixteen years of nasty foul smelling garbage that not only can but will be tossed right at her by the republicans.

Hilbilly is so easy to beat it's not even funny. The simple fact is the Clinton's are liars and everyone knows it! If the Democrats run that lying pile of manure and her husband against John McCain it will be a 45+ state landslide for the Republicans end of story...

So thinking the super delegates are stupid enough to pull a coup and over turn the will of the people and put her in place of the candidate that has more popular vote, more states won, and more pledged delegates. Is nothing more nor less than a pipe dream. Sure the super delegates can do this, However it would be suicidal down stream for the Democratic Party.

Want the Democratic Party to be nothing but a cocktail party joke by 2016 or 2020 at the latest that has no influence on national policy. Let the Super Delegates SELECT Hilary Clinton. Then watch as the whole party goes down in flames.

From the ashes like a phoenix will arise a more moderate and non polarized party. People are tired of the same of BS and lies from politicians.

The reason Obama didn't attack when given openings to launch his own character attacks on Clinton is simple he's not in negative campaign mode win at any cost mode. He even defended her against the so called moderators of that dog and pony show national enquirer sham of a debate...

A Dem VS Dem debate that on most issues the two candidates either agree or have trivial differences in policy. Isn't on the same footing as a debate between either of Democrats or a Republican like John McCain.

I've seen Obama attack and flat out put a smack down on John McCain. On the real issues like The war in Iraq, The Economy, Health Care, Social security etc. He tried and did a fairly good job of doing that even in the sham of a debate on ABC.

James, all you have to do is stroll over to McArdle's bit of the Atlantic, and you can find me defending the most extreme libertarian positions imaginable.

So go moby yourself, sweetheart.

Last I checked, Obama had over 60% of the vote on the ABC AND MSNBC polls asking who won. And I think they're a much better barometer of the public's opinion than the average nerd who comments on an Atlantic blog.

Obama appeared to be so unprepared to answer simple questions, let alone lead the government, the country, the free world.

If Charlie and George can make Barack Obama stumble so badly over and over, what kind of man is he? what kind of leader is he?

It was a shameful performance by the Democratic frontrunner.

"One thing that is a little disconcerting is the way Hillary supporters are rushing to embrace and validate the way ABC chose to conduct the debate."

No rushing to embrace the MSM at all by this Hillary supporter. ABC is typical of most news organizations now - they're after ratings and are not doing a good job at providing the public service that they should be providing.

Sigh - as if this is something new.

Obama, however, did a terrible job. And I believe that shows his campaign theme to be fatally flawed. Basically his mantra is to say we must change politics as usual - i.e., these silly questions shouldn't be asked. How good a job did Obama do in presenting that message? Here was his golden opportunity to show us how good his campaign theme will play in the general election ... and it failed, it went down in flames, it was a miserable performance with even his supporters admitting that he did not do a good job.

It's arroganct to assume that you can tell one what questions to ask. Obama also thinks that he can dictate to me how I should discuss race. Screw that. This is America - we say what we want, to who we want, when we want. If you don't like the questions then get out of politics.

He's an arrogant snob and he wants to tell me (and ABC) what we can and can't talk about. He tried to sell that crap to ABC and the general public last night and it didn't work. The cynics are going to win.

This isn't about Obama.
This is about the fact that it took 50 minutes before a single policy question was asked.
The only people who can't see this are blind partisans, pure and simple. During a time of war and economic instability it's ridiculous that the clown press and their cheerleaders are focused on utter trivialities like Mitt Romney's dog on the roof, John Edwards' hair, Clinton and Bosnia, Obama and patriotism, McCain's age or the stolen family recipes, etc. The focus on idiocy such as the above is absurd on every level and goes way beyond partisanship. But apparently there are enough clowns who will cheer and hoot and holler and approve of the "fair and tough" questioning --- as long as it's not their candidate that's under the spotlight and being subjected to these inanities. Sigh. Wake me when it's over.

Hillary did exactly what she should have done in this debate and it's about time the media asked him some tough questions. Of course Hillary will back the Democrat because as Democrats that's what we do. However, she and everybody else who looks at the issues and his negatives, understands that the Republicans will have a field day with him in the fall. Then we will be stuck with McBush III. Hillary on the other hand, as she stated in the debate, "comes to the table with baggage but, it has been thoroughly rummaged through". These are the facts and we Democrats need to rally around Hillary, our clear and convincing chance for victory for the fall. She will beat McCain in the fall.

It's clear Hillary has command of the issues and policies and Obama arrived at debate tonight like a slug crawling on a leaf. Face it, Obama never did have command of anything except "selling" his mythical message of change to his flock. Obama always looks uneasy when he is exposed and tonight he definitely was unprepared and looked like the "rookie" he is. I get a kick out of these posts from Obama supporters,acting indignant and furious, their Messiah coming off so weak. Hillary has withstood MONTHS of negative media coverage on her, while they have blatantly campaigned for Obama. Its about time you people wake up and understand Obama would not even be in this race HAD THE PRESS began vetting Obama BEFORE IOWA! Think about this,,.,had Wright tapes come out before IOWA, Obama would be back in his senate seat trying to gain the experience he never had to run for President in the first place! Obama is a political fraud and this was a great night.
Posted by Will

1. If the press had vetted Obama like other Dem candidates rather than give him 3 1/2 years of unreserved praise for his speechifying abilities as a secular black preacher, no way he would have had his early successes.
2. Other candidate's pasts were laid out before Iowa. But no one gave voters mention of the downside of the Black Messiah's biography and votes.
3. There is more to follow. Davis's "boy" remark came from a nuclear war game scenario that Obama failed at - unable to function in an atmosphere of high stress, unable to make the necessary decisions. Little has been done to examine Obama's web of benefactors and advocates that helped gain him office and he and his wife's cushy jobs at U of Chicago. It includes radicals associated with Wright, Nation of Islam figures, billionaire Jews with radical politics who are prominent on U of Chicago's Board of Trustees, and the Black Elite of Chicago. All have cultivated the Obamas since they were Harvard Law interns looking for powerful mentors.

Anyone else notice that it's almost always women in these comments defending Hillary? I didn't realize that having ovaries was a legitimate voting issue these days. "Women should be proud," Nancy? The rest of America, who aren't reverse sexists, should be ashamed. Incredibly ashamed that this is what American politics has become. I never really thought that Democrats would be voting because of someone's gender - that's usually a Republican tactic.
Posted by Ed

Before you condemn women for playing the Democrat identity politics game that Dems have run that tells them always to vote for the Democrat women and appeal to female independents and Republicans that a woman running is always better than a white male - address the other problem. That blacks in the Dem Party vote tribally and usually by race. To most black voters a choice between a good white and a good black candidate means that 95% of the black vote is racially driven to the black candidate.
It actually undermines the Dem claim that Republicans lack legitimacy with blacks when their candidate only gets 5% of the black vote when white candidates in their own Party face similar levels of opposition when up against a black.

sbj - Obama, however, did a terrible job. And I believe that shows his campaign theme to be fatally flawed. Basically his mantra is to say we must change politics as usual - i.e., these silly questions shouldn't be asked.

His followers pick up on that. All questions are "silly and a distraction" if they are not things the Black Messiah wishes to opine on. After all, they claim, along with Castro, Susan Sarandon, Jesse Jackson, Vlad Putin, Saddam himself - he gave an anti-War Iraq speech 6 years ago. To 300 antiwar radicals..With Jesse Jackson.

Now Obama and supporters are indulging in a whine-fest that the press is focusing on his gaffes and votes like they have for Hillary, Huckabee, Edwards, Romney, etc. which should not be allowed because he is black, and so warm and nice, and the Candidate who is Hope and Who Is Better Than All That....

sbj - He's an arrogant snob and he wants to tell me (and ABC) what we can and can't talk about. He tried to sell that crap to ABC and the general public last night and it didn't work. The cynics are going to win.

Not just Obama is arrogant. His supporters also have a sense of entitlement. That since their Great Man knows best on all things, or soon will, despite having no experience, based on the soaring speechifying he apes from black preachers - Team Obama is so wonderful that they alone should decide what questions the young Prince and his Princess wife deign to answer.

Ordinary people really, really resent that that questions they may have are dismissed as "false consciousness stemming from economic root causes" when they ask about issues near and dear to them. That attitude is patronizing and elite in the extreme and the litany of Obama and Obama supporters attempting to delegitimize such questions asked by people and media as "distractions from the new Obama Era of poltics" wore thin a long, long time ago.

>>> if you're uncomfortable with it, then change the rules or don't run for office.

Who is 'Presidential'?

Hillary Clinton


Who can take the heat?

Hillary Clinton


Who can beat McCain in the general election?

Hillary Clinton


Who will be the better advocate on behalf of Americans and our needs?

Hillary Clinton


A vote for Hillary now is the wisest vote, as she can beat the Republicans in November.

A vote for Obama, however, is really a vote for McCain and the Republicans in November.

Those who do not want a Republican in the White House after Bush leaves are wise to vote for Hillary now.

I love the claims of how 'bitter' Obama fans are towards the media... said in the same breath as, "See what Hillary has dealt with for MONTHS! How's it feel?"

Great comedy!

To all the Hillary supporters... do you honestly think that elections should be based off flag pins?

"To all the Hillary supporters... do you honestly think that elections should be based off flag pins?"

No.

Here's one for you. Do you think it is acceptable for the candidates to dictate the questions they will be asked?

This is fun!

This debate was appalling. My high school daughter's journalism class would have done better, and I mean that quite literally. They would have researched a few issues and found a few good questions.
Any "journalist" who thinks lapel pin questions are worth asking is in way, way over his head.
Frankly, nobody but a moron will take these clowns seriously.

It Sounds To Me Like The Same Blacks And College
Kid's Who've Gotten Obama This Far With His No
Debating Ass.What Imam Hearing Is That Obama Needs To Be Awarded Something He Has Not Earned
In The First Place.

And For You Hilliary Haters Who Suggest That She
Has Not Been Vetted On Penn,Bosnia,Columbia Well
Guess What She Has Been Attacked This Entire Race
By The College Media Koolaid Drinking Jim Jones
Fanatics On Every Thing She Does,Or Says.

BTW!She Has Also Been Vetted,Attacked Personally,Lied On By Barack And His Field Of Lunitics,Misquoted By The College Press,Almost Castigated By Obama's Supporters To Step Aside
And Let This Moron Just Cruise Into The Republicans Line Of Fire,To Only Crash And Burn
And Be Shot Down,Like He Were Last Night In The Debate That He Had No Idea About.

And Why Were This?Because You Can't Write A Script To Something If You Don't Know What The Questions Are Going To Be,Great Orator Who Reads From Notes,& A Teleprompter And You People Call This Orating Get Real!

Just So You Don't Forget, Like It Seems Most Of You Has,Hilliary Has Been Vetted For The Last 15 Years,So Don't Give Me That Shit About She Were Being Given A Free Ride In Last Night's Debate.

Obama Is,Has Been,And Will Always Be A LIAR,A Fraud,A Manipulator,& A Orator Of Someone Else's Scripts,He Has No Intelligence Or Idea For That Matter About What Needs To Be Done Done In Washington,Or St Louis.

You College Kids Are At It Again I See,Blaming The War On Certain Indivisuals,And Not The Entire Corp Who Also Voted For The War.You Downplayed The Soldiers Who Were Killed In The Vietnam War
By Protesting Against Them As Child Murderers,Occupators,You Degraded Them When They Returned Home From Nam,They Got No Parade From You Because You Were Busy Calling Them Women,And Child Murderers.

And Now I See You Are At It Again Trying To Put An Incompetent LIAR Like Mr Obama,Regardless Of What The Consequences Are.I Know And Have Known For Quite Some Time Now That It Is Impossible To Convince Obama Supporters That He Is The Biggest Fraud The Democrats Has To This Date Offered Up To This Country, This Idiot On A Silver Platter.

"if you're uncomfortable with it, then change the rules or don't run for office."

And this is why the country would be better off if you & the rest of your political "journalist" colleagues simply went out o