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The Democrats: Pennsylvania Polling And National Polling

16 Apr 2008 05:56 am

This poll, from Susquehanna Research, was conducted from April 6-10 using live interviewers. It had shown Sen. Clinton with a double digit lead in March; the lead was down to three last week. The poll does not reflect a weekend's worth of headlines and news coverage about a certain San Francisco fundraiser. The Los Angeles Times and Bloomberg polled Thursday through Monday and found a very tight race. So far, no poll has picked up anything remotely resembling an Obama drop except for internal Clinton tracking. Usually, events like these take a few days to reach equilibrium.

When you ask various members of the Obama campaign about polling after Obama's remarks, they're likely to respond with a variant of a single answer: the coverage of these remarks are media-driven -- old media driven, at that. (It's true: once this story left the confines of the Huffington Post, it pretty much became a staple of the cablers, the newspapers, and the evening news.) Whenever the media tells them that they've misbehaved, Obama's supporters and the penumbra of undecided Democrats (who are really not undecided between two candidates -- they're just unsure whether they're going to vote for Obama) respond in equal fashion, exerting upwards pressure and reversing the trend of the storyline. The way in which the campaign expresses its confidence may be off-putting, but there are reasons for it. Those reasons are not, unfortunately, metaphysical; Obama's campaign does not posses the key to a body of knowledge that everyone else lacks.

Here's what I think is going on. Time after time, from the beginning of the campaign to now, the media has called Obama on a "major" gaffe or presented his reacton to an event as a "major" problem only to figure out a week later that Obama hasn't suffered a bit and Hillary Clinton numbers have dropped back down to about 40%. I've written about by Clinton Stock Price theory before: the Democratic primary electorate has been saturated with information about Clinton from time immemorial and her mean level of support -- her true value -- is about 40%. Sometimes it rises, sometimes is falls, but it usually progresses or regresses to the mean. Everything one can know, think, and feel about Hillary Clinton has been priced into her level of support. Well, add to that the perception that she's been the one has campaigned the most unfairly and the most negatively -- the exit polls pick this up even in states she's won.

I wonder if, when events cast a harsher light on Obama, Democrats blame Clinton instinctively because they're forced to make a binary choice and the nomination can't be awarded to two people. I also think that the degree to which Democrats believe that Barack Obama will win the nomination is one of the reasons why, especially now, his bumps on the road are sanded down a bit. There's just not that much at stake. Further, it's not clear whether the fact that John McCain and Hillary Clinton are tag-teaming Obama on this makes base Democrats more fearful of Obama's electoral politics or more resentful of Clinton's penchant for warning Obama about the awfulness of the Republican playbook and then operating from it. A final factor: Obama's supporters don't seem to mind Obama-the-cocky, but they love Obama the fighter. After all, it's their movement too. Nothing rouses the passions like the outrage of an insult. And nothing feels better than fighting back.

Comments (51)

I'd agree with this. The only thing I'd add is that Hillary Clinton has waaaay overplayed her hand on this story, contributing to Obama's fightback. Instead of stepping back a bit and watching it burn, she's been throwing oil on the fire, pretending to be a hunter and shooter, and generally reminding Obama supporters (not to mention undecideds) what they disliked about her in the first place.

http://www.marbury.typepad.com

Excuse my comment-hogging, but I'd add that (as I argue below) while Obama's comments may prove to be a seismic event in themselves, it's what they reveal about his political character that should be really concerning the Democrats...

http://marbury.typepad.com/marbury/2008/04/words-matter.html

Someday soon Hillary may withdraw from the contest.

Unfortunately, the day when the media confesses that they fabricated this entire controversy out of whole cloth and hysterically overestimated its impact on voters is a long, long way off.

Mark Halperin and his acolytes have been like those guys who predicted the existed of 'aether' a century ago, only to end up with egg on their faces when aether was shown not to exist by the M-M experiment. Or like those confident pundits who were sure we would find WMDs in Iraq, and that the reign of Bush would last forever.

But of course, this is Washington, where people only fail upward, causing the upper ranks of the media to be filled with only the purest forms of ignorance and buffoonery.

In a just world, they would all lose their jobs.

And then maybe they would start to have some insight into the lives of the working class (i.e. the vulnerable-to-unemployment class) that they so idolize.

"Time after time, from the beginning of the campaign to now, the media has called Obama on a "major" gaffe or presented his reaction to an event as a "major" problem only to figure out a week later that Obama hasn't suffered a bit..."

That is dead on! I have a couple thoughts:

1. Many in the media will never give Obama the benefit of the doubt on any "major gaffe" - whereas, they give McCain that benefit...

2. Many in the media and the Clinton camp believe that Obama's support is wide but not deep - that if they show Obama to be human and not a God, his support will dry up. Patently ridiculous.

The dynamic in this case isn't really anything to do with Obama, it's the pundit-driven "outrage" over the outrage the pundits are sure people feel. This exact same situation happened to Clinton before NH (the "tears"). Pundits were so sure that it was going to kill Clinton, and people either didn't care or kind of liked the show of humanity.

The DC media just has no idea what people really think. They are completely cut-off, living off of decade-old readings of the political mood, not realizing the difference in the electorate in an Internet, post-Bush, post-reality show world where voters lean Democratic, get their news from a variety of sources, and are far more comfortable with the messiness of unscripted moments.

It's not about Obama, it's about a script the media is following that is outdated and doesn't resonate in people's lives.

After all this brou-ha-ha is over with, someone is going to come out looking really stupid. And it's going to be the media, not Obama.

"Democrats blame Clinton instinctively because they're forced to make a binary choice..."

Mark, don't know if you have been following the news lately but Democrats and Obama supporters are blaming Hillary for this elitism dust up because (1) Hillary is the one yelling elitism into the cameras (2) Hillary is the one with negative ads up with either actors or faux indignant PA voters decrying Obama's elitism.

You do bad things, you should expect bad results.

The media is woefully out of touch to the point where their hypocrisy is laughable.

Yesterday on MSNBC, a Reuters reporter and an MSNBC anchor agreed that there was "no way" Pennsylvanians could ever identify with someone who drinks orange juice and doesn't bowl well.

Yes, Pennsylvanians lack any of those essential aspects of humanity that universally bind us, they only understand beer and a sport favored by the non-athletic...

This, of course, in the process of shaming Obama for being an "elitist."

Marc:

This analysis is spot-on. I, however, don't have such a negative view of the media. I think the problem is two-fold:

(1) As the primary has dragged on, voters are paying less and less attention. This means that opening segments of political shows, etc., need to really tempt someone from changing the channel. ("Is Obama doomed because he revealed his secret affiliation with the Golden Horde of Gengis Kahn? Analysis after the break!") And let's face it, while there is still a race to be played out among democrats, they will continue to cover it and get attention.

(2) The reason new the media dynamic hasn't filtered up is because precisely because every election, someone (usually the person who isn't favored to win) breathlessly explains how they're going to change everything, blah blah blah. So there's a natural suspicion among them toward any such claims. Now, that suspicion has arguably become orthodoxy, which is very bad (David Broder being probably the worst offender in this regard). But the youth vote has rarely amounted to anything except electoral loss. Running without the typical party infrastructure at your side has also usually not worked. In other words, they will only start really respecting what the Obama campaign has done when (if?) he wins. Until then, they'll remain skeptical.

I know MM bashing is something of a general hobby among the internet-connected. I think it is fun too. But let's not ascribe sinister motives - a general inflexibility is more than enough to explain their behavior.

The 'bittergate' brou ha is such an artificial 'scandal', created entirely by the media. That is the reality of modern-day media-driven politics. The point is that Obama seems to be more than capable of dealing with these kind of controversies--he seems to able to almost thrive on them. This is an inevitable problem that a genuine 'change' candidate has to solve.

I agree a lot with what szr said but want to add this. One question that MSM continues to throw out about Obama is: "There's still so much we don't know about him." Even Richard Wolffe - who seems more even-handed and less given to hysteria - said this only in the last week, despite covering Obama for months.

This clearly is MSM code for - where's the REAL dirt on the guy? Now, Obama is far from perfect, as even he will tell you. But is it that hard to believe that he's run a basically upstanding life, devoid of real controversy? I don't think so. Why? Because that's MY life. Sure, I'm not a pol, but I've lived by my principles. I'd hate to think, if I were to throw my hat into a race, that I'd be suspect because my life is devoid of controversy.

Obama's been under the media spotlight for well over a year. Maybe it's time we accept that he is who he appears to be, and has no skeletons in his closet. Let's stop waiting for that Big Unknown to arise and trust the man.

Marc, you rather ignore the possibility that the majority of Democrats have perceived that Obama is the superior candidate. Were it not for the residual disbelief that a BLACK MAN might actually be the Democratic nominee, both Hillary and the media "outrage" might be allowed to expire gracefully.

Marc, you rather ignore the possibility that the majority of Democrats have perceived that Obama is the superior candidate. Were it not for the residual disbelief that a BLACK MAN might actually be the Democratic nominee, both Hillary and the media "outrage" might be allowed to expire gracefully.

I guess I'm surprised that you neglected to mention just how good Obama seems to be at counterpunching.
People do respond to that. Sure, some are going to find it cocky, but is there a way to effectively counterpunch and not appear at least close to over-confident at the same time? Examples please. Are we really saying we don't want a candidate who can respond to attacks (Republican or otherwise) that effectively? To what end?

The funny thing to me in all this is that Hillary is also outstanding when it comes to counterpunching/defending herself. She's at her best when she's being attacked. When she has to go on the offensive and does it with this negative personal stuff, however, she's not good at all and it's ugly.

I agreed with the analysis. I think that it's largely about likability. To buy a politician's message usually you have to like them.

We're watching this from the UK and in all this stuff Obama comes across as likable, Clinton comes across as a deeply unpleasant person. You may not agree with Obama, he may not have the same pastimes as you, but at the end of the day you'd say 'He's OK'. Clinton you just say...we'll lets just say that 'nice' isn't the first word that comes to mind.

Obama on the attack is good as well. He is cool under fire. He doesn't squirm. He doesn't whine. He watches, waits for his moment and then goes into counter-attack if necessary.

He's the one you want dealing with the modern equivalent of the Cuban Missile Crisis. He's the one you want facing down the Russians or the Chinese.

McCain would be OK, Obama better. Clinton is simply dysfunctional and the prospect of her and Bill (early onset Alzheimer's?) leading the 'free' World terrifies me sitting on the other side of the pond.

I think that the moral of Bittergate is that this race has settled down and that gaffes and peccadilloes simply aren't going to change the voters perceptions of the candidates much , no matter how obsessively they are covered by blogs and cable news. Unless Obama is caught in bed with a live boy or a dead girl, his numbers are pretty much going to stay the same. Ditto for Clinton.
Frankly, I do think primary coverage overload has also set in. People just want this race to be over. When the only thing left for the media to chew over are minor mis-statements, then there is pretty much nothing left to do b but to decide.

I think everyone has lost as a result of the 24-hour news cycle that fluffs up endless crap and presents it as a story. Most people's lives don't move at that pace and stories that once might have stuck and damaged someone are less likely to because there's a new story everyday. And none of these stories seem to really stick to Obama I think because he pivots so quickly and effectively and understands the nature of the modern news cycle. Lightning quick responses have saved him. You can't do what Clinton did with Tuzla. You cannot freaking LIE through your teeth over and over again and let it hang in the air only to be replayed ad infinitum on YouTube until you are shamed into acknowledging it and then, when you acknowledge it, you don't actually. And then your idiot husband, campaignin' like it's 1992, revives it. I think they honestly haven't realized that everything is on tv now. You can't lie in the way that they casually do without getting caught. It's interesting to me that he still seems to think that convincing a couple of Indiana senior citizens in a high school gym that Tuzla was one way is more important than putting the story to bed forever, He's so off his game it's craaazy. I never imagined that he'd lose his game, but Obama makes him look like Foghorn Leghorn.


Random: Mark Halperin's ongoing hysteria reminds me of Geraldo at Al Capone's vault.

Obama Foxworthy in Frisco

You might be a redneck if you are from a small town.

You might be a redneck if you don’t wanna work.

You might be a redneck if you buy my talking points hook line and sinker.

You might be a redneck if you are bitter and anti American government.

You might be a redneck if you cling to your gun only because you are full of frustration.

You might be a redneck if you cling to your religion only because you are full of frustration

You might be a redneck if you have antipathy to everyone but other rednecks.

You might be a redneck if you hate all immigrants coming to your country.

You might be a redneck if you don’t know anything about international trade.

You might be a redneck if you won’t vote for me or join my movement, sort of a race thing.

Obama got caught gossiping in private, plain and simple!

Please no more spin! Can’t Obama just say sorry with out it being small town peoples fault?
Sorry people but Obama is wrong and I do not like all these talking heads and media hounds spinning Obama's words as not being offensive but instead we are to take as right and true. I also am really tired of them telling me how I feel! Who I am is one of the "THEY" Obama was sharing to his "WE" buddies about. What they all have wrong is that I am not bitter towards my country or my government for that matter any other race of people or any other country or any other neighbors! Not city folk, Not Hispanic folk, Not black folk! They are all welcome to my small town and my church where you will get and invite for dinner! We do have people in hard times around here and other who are not and we help each other through such times. We do want more jobs but not anymore or less then any other part of this country. We count ourselves so very lucky to be able to live in a small town with a solid sense of community and core values of hard work, where sharing, caring and God loving abound! Where we have the freedom to work and play. Where we can hunt and fish and live as we please. We are not bitter we are BLESSED!

Another factor at play, as his bumps in the road are sanded down, is how very badly so many people WANT Obama to be what he says he is. (Wouldn't it be great, too, if Harry Potter were real? I'd love to hang with that guy.) People from all walks of life are genuinely hopeful that Hydroxycut can thin, Enzyte can enlarge and Obama can lead. But the proof is right in front of us. Obama continues to talk his way into trouble and then talk his way out of it. And the Yeswecans let him do it.

Roger,

There are four words that give me great comfort:

President Barrack Hussein Obama

Keep saying these four words over and over again until you are less bitter.

I am going to call bs on this post. First, he doesn't include his own blog postings as a part of the "media driven" narrative. Give me a break.

Two, your argument as to why Hillary's numbers go down is farsical. It could be a number of factors such as the fact that Dems don't approve of her tactics. Or that watching her attack reminds voters of the shrill Hillary from 1992 and reminds voters that after everything, she hasn't changed at all. When she attacks she loses credibility as the "new" Hillary and people don't like the "old" one.

Third, your statement "Obama-the-cocky" is rather disturbing and I think you need to look within yourself as to your own motivations. It is also odd that you label Obama cocky in this campaign when there is a real Navy flyboy/top-gun in the race. I wonder if by "cocky" you really mean "uppity".

Your schtick is getting tired.

It's the economy, stupid. When times are as perilous as these for the middle class, and 80-some percent say we are on the wrong track, the media still expects us to get upset because somebody said something mean? This kind of crap may have had relevance in a peace-time expansion with surpluses as far as the eye can see (think 2000). But now, we have bigger things to worry about than faux outrage.

I also agree with Judy, the what don't we know about Obama crap is disturbing. The guys life is literally an open book, go read it.

I've heard people on tv say that we don't know 50% about Obama. And that is just a reflection of the Clinton campaign narrative that there is this secret evidence against Obama that exists but no one is saying what it is. But it's bad and he is unelectable and "damaged" and wait tip the Republicans find out. My god.

There are a lot of opinionated people who are sure that this gaffe will seriously damage Obama's candidacy. And there are a lot of other opinionated people who are sure that it is all much ado about nothing.

Won't it be fascinating when we actually get some hard data on the effect, or lack of effect, on actual Pennsylvania voters? Until we do, all we know is that a lot of people who don't vote in Pennsylvania have opinions.

I agree with your take on this, Ambers. Nice work.

wj: My thoughts exactly. Data is starting to trickle in and, so far, it looks like this hasn't affected the race at all, either way. The folks PA vote in less than a week. Then we'll have real data. Is it so hard for the media to actually wait a week to allow the voters to speak for themselves?

Brian: I was saying something similar to my friend just yesterday. While I do believe Obama is a talented politician, it really doesn't take any talent or special skills to overcome a media-created, media-driven non-issue.

Obama, Clinton, and McCain may not be "regular folks", but their job puts them in touch with more regular folks in a single year than the pundit class will meet in a lifetime. Yet the pundits somehow have some magical insight into how small town Americans think and feel? Get over yourselves.

The key to this flap is it didn't resonate in the a/v world. Since nothing came out on YouTube, all we had was the usual cable news nonsense -- a bunch of rich folks pretending to understand small town America. The dirty secret of all this is no one really cares what they think anymore. Rev. Wright hurt Obama because it converged with the YouTube world. Macaca was a YouTube moment. "100 years" and "bomb Iran" are YouTube moments. The DC media has always been out of touch (hello Maureen Dowd). The Internet is only making this fact obvious. The pundits have been clueless about this campaign from day one. I suspect they'll continue to get it wrong right up through Inauguration Day.

MY FELLOW BITTER, STUPID, WORKING CLASS PEOPLE.

YOU MIGHT BE AN IDIOT, TOO :-(

If you think like Barack Obama, that WORKING CLASS PEOPLE are just a bunch of BITTER!, STUPID, PEASANTS, Cash COWS!, and CANNON FODDER. :-(

You Might Be An Idiot, Too!

If you think Barack Obama with little or no experience would be better than Hillary Clinton with 35 years experience.

You Might Be An Idiot, Too!

If you think that Obama with no experience can fix an economy on the verge of collapse better than Hillary Clinton. Whose husband (Bill Clinton) led the greatest economic expansion, and prosperity in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot, Too!

If you think that Obama with no experience fighting for universal health care can get it for you better than Hillary Clinton. Who anticipated this current health care crisis back in 1993, and fought a pitched battle against overwhelming odds to get universal health care for all the American people.

You Might Be An Idiot, Too!

If you think that Obama with no experience can manage, and get us out of two wars better than Hillary Clinton. Whose husband (Bill Clinton) went to war only when he was convinced that he absolutely had to. Then completed the mission in record time against a nuclear power. AND DID NOT LOSE THE LIFE OF A SINGLE AMERICAN SOLDIER. NOT ONE!

You Might Be An Idiot, Too!

If you think that Obama with no experience saving the environment is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose husband (Bill Clinton) left office with the greatest amount of environmental cleanup, and protections in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot, Too!

If you think that Obama with little or no education experience is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose husband (Bill Clinton) made higher education affordable for every American. And created higher job demand and starting salary’s than they had ever been before or since.

You Might Be An Idiot, Too!

If you think that Obama with no experience will be better than Hillary Clinton who spent 8 years at the right hand of President Bill Clinton. Who is already on record as one of the greatest Presidents in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot, Too!

If you think that you can change the way Washington works with pretty speeches from Obama, rather than with the experience, and political expertise of two master politicians ON YOUR SIDE like Hillary and Bill Clinton..

You Might Be An Idiot, Too!

If you think all those Republicans voting for Obama in the Democratic primaries, and caucuses are doing so because they think he is a stronger Democratic candidate than Hillary Clinton. :-)

Best regards

jacksmith... Working Class :-)

p.s.

If you don't know that the huge amounts of money funding the Obama campaign to try and defeat Hillary Clinton is coming in from the insurance, and medical industry, that has been ripping you off, and killing you and your children. And denying you, and your loved ones the life saving medical care you needed. All just so they can make more huge immoral profits for them-selves off of your suffering...

You Might Be An Idiot, Too!

You see, back in 1993 Hillary Clinton had the audacity, and nerve to try and get quality, affordable universal health care for everyone to prevent the suffering and needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of you each year. :-)

Approx. 100,000 of you die each year from medical accidents from a rush to profit by the insurance, and medical industry. Another 120,000 of you die each year from treatable illness that people in other developed countries don’t die from. And I could go on, and on...

It’s interesting to read through all these comments….I find some people with knowledge that qualifies them to make comments, and some other folks who would speak based on passionate bases – not wrong of course, but definitely NOT ENOUGH !!

Here is my own perspective, not as a reader, not as someone who has been reading and educating himself for years about politics and worldwide events, not as someone who has any preferential tendencies towards any candidate….but as an ARAB AMERICAN guy who has lived enough, studied enough, mingled enough with the right and wrong people in both worlds : the EAST and the WEST

Everywhere else, but in America, this is how you would define a patriotic person: someone who cares for his country, his beliefs towards his people and nation, and who has the energy and determination to protect his passion and precious identity…..everywhere, but in the Middle East!! Over there, patriotism is towards religion, and can be against anything – ANYTHING – that threatens that religion even if it’s your own country itself….for those who don’t believe me or don’t know what I am talking about, ask non-Muslim folks from the Middle East. It is that scary.

Why am I bringing this issue and what this has to do with Hillary or Obama – it has everything to do with this election – choosing between these two is like choosing between raising 2 pets: a coward dog to protect your home or a python snake to raise inside your house !!!! my meaning: with a dog, you can bring additional security measures: security alarm, extra locks, motion detectors, etc….it’s gonna cost you more but you can still make it. Now, think of the python snake: for a second, it’s cute with smooth muscle and cool sliding movement- turn your eyes for a minute, and it’s killing your own precious son or daughter – the loss here can not be recovered. The minute you allowed the snake inside your house, the minute you chose to die !!

Applying it here: choosing Hillary maybe not your best choice because she lied, 2-faced, etc. whatever you call it – at least she’s one of us. Even if she messed up or tried to, there’s the congress, senate, media, 2nd election chance, etc….many forces to improve the situation or many good things that can balance the bad stuff happening. She won’t be the first (not-so-perfect president), and definitely won’t be the last.
With Obama…oh Boy!!! You are changing the whole identity of the USA – it’s like giving your own child to cannibals to raise him for few years – would you trust him back in your house after that? Would he ever care about you, being his parent? My point is: Obama may claim he is American, he is Christian, he is honest, he is straightforward, he is seeking CHANGE…words are as easy and soft as cracking the child’s bones by a python and then swallowing him smoothly!!! if you don’t get what I mean, ask many American women who felt victims for Arab Muslims – the first impression: he is honest, straightforward, handsome, seeking new beginning and rosy life….the rest is well known. I am sure that most of you don’t know that (lies) and (pretending to be something else) is an integral part of islam “if you have to” or “in order to spread Allah’s word” Another example: compare the riots worldwide regarding the Danish cartoon and their rationale to attack it vs what’s happening over there towards non-Muslims just to practice their religion…other horrible stories are worth a separate web site.

Morale of my note here: Obama is not the worst selection as a president – he shouldn’t even be among the list of candidates…..Wake up Americans from your ignorance, and look over the bench @ what’s happening worldwide and have been happening for hundreds of years. Say (no Obama) as much as you said (no Osama) before !!!!!

Clinton lies like a Bush. "we came in under sniper fire." hahahaha Nice try.

jacksmith,
Why do you sound so bitter?

DON'T BE DUPED !!!

Large numbers of Republicans have been voting for Barack Obama in the DEMOCRATIC primaries, and caucuses from early on. Because they feel he would be a weaker opponent against John McCain. With Hillary Clinton you are almost 100% certain to get quality, affordable universal health care very soon.

But first, all of you have to make certain that Hillary Clinton takes the democratic nomination and then the Whitehouse. NOW! is the time. THIS! is the moment you have all been working, and waiting for. You can do this America. “Carpe diem” (harvest the day).

I think Hillary Clinton see’s a beautiful world of plenty for all. She’s a woman, and a mother. And it’s time America. Do this for your-selves, and your children’s future. You will have to work together on this and be aggressive, relentless, and creative. Americans face an even worse catastrophe ahead than the one you are living through now.

You see, the medical and insurance industry mostly support the republicans with the money they ripped off from you. And they don’t want you to have quality, affordable universal health care. They want to be able to continue to rip you off, and kill you and your children by continuing to deny you life saving medical care that you have already paid for. So they can continue to make more immoral profits for them-selves.

Hillary Clinton has actually won by much larger margins than the vote totals showed. And lost by much smaller vote margins than the vote totals showed. Her delegate count is actually much higher than it shows. And higher than Obama’s. She also leads in the electoral college numbers that you must win to become President in the November national election. HILLARY CLINTON IS ALREADY THE TRUE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE!

As much as 30% of Obama's primary, and caucus votes are Republicans trying to choose the weakest democratic candidate for McCain to run against. These Republicans have been gaming the caucuses where it is easier to vote cheat. This is why Obama has not been able to win the BIG! states primaries. Even with Republican vote cheating help.

Hillary Clinton has been OUT MANNED! OUT GUNNED! and OUT SPENT! 4 and 5 to 1. Yet Obama has only been able to manage a very tenuous, and questionable tie with Hillary Clinton.

If Obama is the democratic nominee for the national election in November he will be slaughtered. Because the Republican vote cheating help will suddenly evaporate. All of this vote fraud and republican manipulation has made Obama falsely look like a much stronger candidate than he really is. YOUNG PEOPLE. DON’T BE DUPED! Think about it. You have the most to lose.

The democratic party needs to fix this outrage. Everyone needs to throw all your support to Hillary Clinton NOW! So you can end this outrage against YOU the voter, and against democracy.

The democratic party, and the super-delegates have a decision to make. Are the democrats, and the democratic party going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee to fight for the American people. Or are the republicans going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee through vote fraud, and gaming the DEMOCRATIC party primaries, and caucuses.

Fortunately the Clinton’s have been able to hold on against this fraudulent outrage with those repeated dramatic comebacks of Hillary Clinton’s. Only the Clinton’s are that resourceful, and strong. Hillary Clinton is your NOMINEE. They are the best I have ever seen.

“This is not a game” (Hillary Clinton)

Sincerely

jacksmith... Working Class :-)

This thread has really gone downhill - we have a Hillary-supporting conspiracy theorist and a reality-challenged python hater both posting lengthy manifestos one after the other. Time to move on to another blog. Thanks for the great reading!

I don't think the media is out of touch, I think they feel the same thing that most American's feel. Look at CNN's commentators on the first response to Hillary's elite comments, they called her out. But, subsequent reports had the attacks on Obama, and they didn't stop.

I think they are trying to influence the public opinion, rather than conveying the news. The news on the news is that they have lost their impact. People aren't buying it anymore.

This can probably be attributed to the internet, where people can quickly get in touch with the real story and the facts that the news refuses to report.

Future for the news? I canceled my cable subscription. If they don't report the news, and their opinions are ill formed, what's the point?

This was an enlightening thread until nutcases just took it over. Let's hope the enlightened take the elections. I'm not optimistic. As the NY Times recently reported 21% of Americans think the sun revolves around the earth and 7% says they just don't now. So much for our electorate. I guess that's why it's reduced to knee jerk reactions to trivial gaffes and the overblown media interpretations of them.

This was an enlightening thread until nutcases just took it over. Let's hope the enlightened take the elections. I'm not optimistic. As the NY Times recently reported 21% of Americans think the sun revolves around the earth and 7% says they just don't now. So much for our electorate. I guess that's why it's reduced to knee jerk reactions to trivial gaffes and the overblown media interpretations of them.

This was an enlightening thread until nutcases just took it over. Let's hope the enlightened take the elections. I'm not optimistic. As the NY Times recently reported 21% of Americans think the sun revolves around the earth and 7% says they just don't now. So much for our electorate. I guess that's why it's reduced to knee jerk reactions to trivial gaffes and the overblown media interpretations of them.

Illuminating analysis Marc. I think you're onto something.

***

Jacksmith @11.52am,

Is your post supposed to be sarcastic?

In case it isn't:

"medical and insurance industry mostly support the republicans"

- Hillary has taken the most donations from medical and insurance industry lobbyists.

"She also leads in the electoral college numbers that you must win to become President in the November national election. HILLARY CLINTON IS ALREADY THE TRUE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE!"

- The democratic nominee is based on democratic delegates. Of which, Obama has a nearly insurmountable lead.

Jacksmith,

At no point did your unhinged rant actually articulate an argument. We are all dumber for having read your post. I award you zero points. May g-d have mercy on you in this life and after.

What about Hillary's lies about Bosnia? Weren't those pretty flagrant? Any defense of that conduct?

I'm not sure why anyone even bothers to reply to "Jacksmith", this is either a moron who has mastered the skill of cut and paste, or a spam bot that posts the exact same thing on each and every thread on this blog!!!

Hasn't anyone but me noticed that aside from the verbatim anti Obama pro Hilbilly rants jacksmith doesn't post anything?

Can the heroine of Bosnia, the peace negotiator of Ireland, the millionairess of Chappaqua, the secret foe of NAFTA, the gunslinger of Pennsylvania be trusted to help blue collar families when she still has Mark Penn (the recently paid lobbyist for the Colombian free trade agreement) on her campaign staff? Is he part of the experience she will draw upon in the coming economic crisis? Oh, of course there is Bill, the great architect of economic growth that traded away manufacturing jobs via NAFTA, how do you think he will advise her? Maybe a South American Free Trade Agreement? Is there any chance we could export blue collar jobs to Austrialia?

O.K. So there are only two choices. The hope monger makes a gaffe and we find it surprising that there is not a shift to the purveyor of fantasy? Hope still trumps fantasy; inspiration still trumps 10 point plans; compassion trumps calculation; judgement trumps experience. Change trumps more of the same. Hope will prevail -- no blow out in Pennsylvania.

I think that your arguments and putting number on values of the persons (e.g., Hillary at ~40%,e tc) are not based on real numbers.

The campaign is getting longer, and people are tired of answering polls etc. This is why I do not read much on daily gallop polls, as they may very well reflect the mood of people who have time to answer their pollers - nothing more. This is why practically none of the polls agree with each other withing their error bars.

I honeestly that there is a flow with your Obama argument. You think that Obama support is firm, but I argue as we have seen in history, the populist movement type of guy, can go from 30 to 55 %. The challenge for democrats is that he has a very good chance of hitting the rock bottom of 30% of his loyal movemnet types, but not soft obama lovers.
However, Clinton has solid base of 40%, and if she can cash on 20% more (50% of republican - independent women have favorable view of her), she can actully win the election against McCain.

Honestly, I think that Obama is much more liability - particulary if you go through his work, his dossier is really thin, and He is totally overrated. :)

I think that your arguments and putting number on values of the persons (e.g., Hillary at ~40%,e tc) are not based on real numbers.

The campaign is getting longer, and people are tired of answering polls etc. This is why I do not read much on daily gallop polls, as they may very well reflect the mood of people who have time to answer their pollers - nothing more. This is why practically none of the polls agree with each other withing their error bars.

I honeestly that there is a flow with your Obama argument. You think that Obama support is firm, but I argue as we have seen in history, the populist movement type of guy, can go from 30 to 55 %. The challenge for democrats is that he has a very good chance of hitting the rock bottom of 30% of his loyal movemnet types, but not soft obama lovers.
However, Clinton has solid base of 40%, and if she can cash on 20% more (50% of republican - independent women have favorable view of her), she can actully win the election against McCain.

Honestly, I think that Obama is much more liability - particulary if you go through his work, his dossier is really thin, and He is totally overrated. :)

Since when did working-class, folksy Clinton supporters start reading the Atlantic blogs?

Lets keep attacking Obama for being too bourgeoise and call him the marxist!

Let's consider Clinton's dossier. A non-consensus building attempt at health care reform while First Lady that not only failed but alienated both Republicans and Democrats. Then she retreated from public policy to the public traditional First Lady role that she had mocked. Her handling of the admittedly overblown Travelgate issue was incompetant at best, marked by unnecessary withholding of documents at best and the likely destruction of subpoenaed documents. Her tenure as NY senator has been marked by votes reflecting personal ambition more than integrity or committment to policy. Even her own former head of staff said that her vote to fund the Iraq war had "more to do with political realities than her belief on whether an invasion of Iraq was the best path." And the embellishments of her actions as First Lady in Bosnia, Macedonia and Ireland show a fundamental dishonesty that is deeply troubling, as much for their hubris as misrepresentation. Her claims of sniper fire in Bosnia; having played a significant role in the opening of Macedonia to Kosovo refugees; and having participated in the Irish peace agreement have all been debunked. The issue with these misrepresentations is not only that she was dishonest about that but that she actually thought she could get away with such obvious dishonest in the new media environment. Bill Clinton may believe that she deserves to be President but I think we as a country deserve better. Let's hope it's Obama. He's not perfect but he's closer to real.

Besides, Hillary is due for her next big brouhaha. You can almost set your watch by her, she lies on such a regular basis. It's not a question of if; but only a question of when. What will old faithful gush out this time: http://theseedsof9-11.com

Obama is not only an elitist,his wife is worse.Soros controls Move On,the Media,and Obama.
Obama is an extreme far leftist,a racist,a socialist,and a marxist.Like your Bill of Rights?Your freedom of speech?Hasn't the Sharpton,Jackson,Wright side that IS Obama restricted your speech?
Hillary HAS to win.Otherwise we are looking to end up just like Chavez's country.It's either Hillary and Freedom,or McCain.We can't afford to lose our rights to Obama and the extremists.

Obama is not only an elitist,his wife is worse.Soros controls Move On,the Media,and Obama.
Obama is an extreme far leftist,a racist,a socialist,and a marxist.Like your Bill of Rights?Your freedom of speech?Hasn't the Sharpton,Jackson,Wright side that IS Obama restricted your speech?
Hillary HAS to win.Otherwise we are looking to end up just like Chavez's country.It's either Hillary and Freedom,or McCain.We can't afford to lose our rights to Obama and the extremists.

Obama is not only an elitist,his wife is worse.Soros controls Move On,the Media,and Obama.
Obama is an extreme far leftist,a racist,a socialist,and a marxist.Like your Bill of Rights?Your freedom of speech?Hasn't the Sharpton,Jackson,Wright side that IS Obama restricted your speech?
Hillary HAS to win.Otherwise we are looking to end up just like Chavez's country.It's either Hillary and Freedom,or McCain.We can't afford to lose our rights to Obama and the extremists.

Obama and the Country of Doom

Obama spells doom for this country. Not only because of his dubious affiliations with mob members like Rezko and criminals like Auchi, but because of his lack of experience and bias education especially his bizarre religious affiliations. He is like silly putty; able to change his ideas for the public as needed so as to achieve his goal as supreme leader.

His intentions are unclear, but his affiliations are clear. Being surrounded with people like the violent Ayers, or the Hiteresque Wright, or his American hating wife Michelle, or his Kenyan half brother Islamic Jihad terrorist Abongo “Roy” Obama, or his Jewish/Israeli hating best friend Rashid Khalidi, or his close advisor Robert Malley who advocates supporting and helping the terrorist group Hamas, or Mr. McPeaks, Obama’s military advisor who open believes American Jews are the "problem." and “Christian Zionists were driving America's policy in Iraq to benefit Israel,” or Obama’s super delegate and major long term supporter Senator Meeks who openly hates and distrust all whites and gays or Obama’s most dangerous affiliation to Mr. Auchi who was Saddam Hussein right hand man and made billions in Iraq and has been a important supporter and behind the scene man throughout Obama’s rise to power.

And besides all this questionable laundry in Obama’s life, another serious question is why is Obama protected and promoted by the media? Is this also being directed from behind the scenes? The American public has been fooled before and I guess those in power know we can be fooled again. (Kennedy’s assassination, Martin Luther King’s assassination, the invasion of Iraq…).

The fact that Obama has made it this far demonstrates the collective lack of discriminative intelligence and education of this country. And nothing demonstrates this better than how well Obama plays his black card; which plays on our fear of being labeled a racist.

The voting public knows the difference between a real controversy and a Hillary/media-created one. They realize that the press is in the business of selling news stories, so when there's no real news (such as during these long intervals between elections), they latch onto any trivial spark that they can hope to fan into something more. And Hillary's spin doctors are more than happy to feed the fire, as they and the press continue their dance macabre. It's getting predictable, and a little annoying, and the public is getting tired of seeing a decent man libeled on a weekly basis by this power-hungry harpie and a story-hungry press. The public is simply ignoring it all as part of the background noise. They've already made their choice - and it's clearly Obama. Hillary can rant and rave from now until the convention, but all she will succeed in doing is destroying her own reputation and harming her party's chances in November.

For such a blank coloring page to the public, that is deeply shaded and shadowed by his lies and embellishments rangin from his parents meeting in Selma (MLK), to the Kennedys sponsoring his father, to the magazine cover that doesn't exist spurring his racial identity crisis...

It's truly mind boggling..

Either voters are very blind, very dumb for not researching their candidates, or very sheep like falling for their perceived movie star president.

Come on already about his great judgement with the Iraq war. His speech was given about a WEEK before the senate even voted on the motion. It was nothing more than monday morning arm chairing, but WORSE than that, in relation to how he stands on that pedestal of being against the war from the start, yet he gave totally contradictory statements and speeches otherwise after the war commenced.

Personally, at least I know, or have a fair idea of what I would get with Hillary or McCain...based on Obama's past writings in his books, his associations, and his judgements regarding Rezko and others....

Anyhow...... May we all be blessed, no matter who is elected president.

And may the Good Lord protect us from our stupidity and our leaders.


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