Look at what happened as soon as "Bill Ayers" was mentioned last night....
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Who cares American politics are a joke. I'm moving to Iraq. It's gotta be better than this.
Unlike this. 
Your post below on the ABC outrage is pure horse manure. Aside from the usual jumbled prose and typos, the logic of the post seems to be this:
This is the Atlantic? Another reason not to buy the dead tree version.
Look, if Obama was close friends with Ayers, it would still be a non-issue, but at least an understandable non-issue. The fact that his only relation to the dude is to be on a fucking board with him makes this such a non-issue that anyone pushing it can only be deeply in the tank for McCain. But then it isn't exactly a secret that fat boy loves himself some McCain.
anonymous @ 10:58 said: "Your post below on the ABC outrage is pure horse manure. Aside from the usual jumbled prose and typos, the logic of the post seems to be this:
I couldn't agree more. James Poniewozik nails it here: http://www.time-blog.com/tuned_in/2008/04/never_meta_debate_they_didnt_l.html
Marc, This post seems to contradict your earlier posts about Ayers and the purpose of the debate. This poll obviously shows that Bill Ayers was not a source of any particular interest prior to George Steph. pulling it out of right-wing media and giving it prime time play. Yet, you partially justify the flag pin question on the basis of it being a subject that you believe some voters genuinely care about. So, which is it? It's okay to air fresh dirty laundry at a debate because it informs the public about something they may not have been aware of, or dirty laundry is only appropriate if it's already generating a certain amount of buzz among the public?
badger, why is ayers not news? he had a fundraiser at the guys house at the start of his political career? I do want to know more about that.
Michael C., I am asking Marc to reconcile the two rationales. He's implying that there are some kinds of questions that he would absolutely disapprove of, but his standards seem to shift a bit. As for whether or not Ayers is "news": Everything qualifies as news on some level. Ayers meeting with a former radical over a decade ago would fall into the category of "old news". And a debate isn't a forum for the delivery of news, it's a forum for candidates to explain their political positions to the public and to defend those political positions from potential criticism. Barack Obama has no political positions condoning what Prof. Ayers did way back when. And there is no reason to believe that whatever interactions Senator Obama had with Ayers presents an inconsistency. Barack Obama's positions on bombings and murder are, shall we say, highly conventional and uncontroversial. Spurious implications that he is okay with domestic terrorism and would condone it as president because of a meeting over a decade ago are political smears, pure and simple. Even if we didn't live during a time of tremendous financial, environmental, security, and social challenges, it would be an inane subject to raise in a debate.
I can't wait to see the graph for "Cindy McCain: Drug Addict" when Charles Gibson raises that issue.
Yes indeed, who "cares" what some guy with a mustache did over sixty years ago when the world was in turmoil? "Silence is consent" is an aphorism with a long pedigree. That someone such as Obama would be so casually willing to overlook the unrepentant attempted murder of one's fellow citizens in order to curry favor with such an odious creature as Ayers in order to accept campaign "blood-money" from "fellow travelers" in Ayer's like-minded social circle is beneath contempt and speaks directly to, and negatively about, Obama's philosophical world-view. That someone seeking to represent the Government of the United States--even at the state level--should be so casual about willingly rubbing shoulders (without a shred of expressed disapproval) with someone who planted bombs in the Pentagon is something the American people should know about.
virgil, That guy with the mustache 60 years ago? Remember how we beat him? It involved overlooking the myriad sins of another man with a mustache out of political necessity. I guess it's a small miracle we survived such a moral compromise in one piece. We certainly couldn't risk another president so blinded by pragmatism.
Thanks for your objective analysis, virgil and Michael C. But really, nobody in their right mind cares.
In fairness badger, he did put "blood money" in quotation marks to signify that he does, in fact, acknowledge that he's full of shit.
Virgil, Why is it that only Barrack Obama is being asked to identify and repudiate every person that he has had the mildest aquaintance with, yet the same isn't being asked of Hillary or McCain? I can only guess that the dirt on Obama is so week, that a unique standard must be created for Obama. I guess the lies and nastiness from Hillary should be merely regarded as business as usual. McCain's support of failed government policies and a deep association with the worst President ever is tolerable to the nitpickers. Those things must have passed the Commander-In-Chief test. Obama must now answer for every perceived association or gaffe that you nitpickers deem important enough to get him past the Manchurian Candidate test. When Obama is in the middle of his first term as President, will you be reminding every blog about his association with a preacher, a gaffe and a board membership with Ayers? Will these petty things cloud your mind in the same way the rightwingers pissed on themselves during Bill Clinton's first term?
Ayers is a total non-issue. The guy simply held a fundraisier for Obama several years ago, and that means that they're best buddies? Come on.... You're right, Marc; this is a Hannity-style ambush. http://www.political-buzz.com/
There are 3 different AYERS in the news today, and your Google link clearly shows all 3 stories. One is a soldier who pled guilty on involuntary manslaughter and the other is a Nat'l Century exec involved in the mortgage meltdown. Fort Lewis soldier gets 2 1/3 years for death of sergeant The Associated Press Cpl. Timothy Ayers pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter and was sentenced Wednesday. The 21-year-old soldier originally was charged with murder for ... 3 National Century execs return to jail, 1 headed homeBizjournals.com, USA US District Court Judge Algenon L. Marbley ruled that Donald Ayers, Randolph Speer and Roger Faulkenberry were flight risks, while James Dierker was not. ...
badger said "Barack Obama's positions on bombings and murder are, shall we say, highly conventional and uncontroversial. Spurious implications that he is okay with domestic terrorism and would condone it as president because of a meeting over a decade ago are political smears, pure and simple. Even if we didn't live during a time of tremendous financial, environmental, security, and social challenges, it would be an inane subject to raise in a debate." You Obamabots just don't GET IT. Ayers is a CRIMINAL who got off on a technicality. People DIED. This is NOT the type of person I want my President associating with, ever and certainly not holding fundraisers for him. Sitting on a board (getting paid) with Ayers is FAR TOO MUCH association for me. Ayers had the indecency to say ON 9/11 that he wished he had done more, meaning BOMBED MORE US BUILDINGS. Bill's having pardoned other Weathermen ( not involved in deaths) is not HILLARY's doing.
Kathryn, Again, I find these guilt by association arguments to be lazy intellectually. Even a person who dislikes Sen. Obama as much as you apparently do, obviously doesn't believe that as President he will ignore domestic terrorism by leftists (if, indeed, an act of domestic terrorism by leftists even occurs during the next ten years). So you're really just saying that, as a worst case scenario, Ayres had blood on his hands, Obama knew it, but he needed Ayres' support for political purposes so he attended a fundraiser and was polite to him. That's sad, but it's not exactly making my blood boil. It's not like Obama genuinely owes the man anything or that he can expect a pardon from an Obama Administration. We all have to make compromises in our life and deal with people who may have dirt under their fingernails. Guess what? This is especially the kind of thing Presidents have to do! If the next president is going to bring peace to the Middle East, he's going to have to sit at a table with people with more than a few significant human rights abuses and acts of terrorism under their belts. If he's going to keep Pakistan's nukes under control, he's going to have to keep in close touch with some of the world's most corrupt elected officials. If he wants to keep on decent terms with China and get them on an environmental path that won't destroy the planet, etc. etc. A President that actually held to the absolutist moral standards you feel are appropriate for Obama would be an unmitigated disaster, domestically and internationally.
Mikelx complains that Obama must now answer for every "perceived" association. PERCEIVED?????!!!!!
carrie - That's because no one know who the F Ayers is! No, what you are saying is that you, a ditzy female, don't care what happened in the past. As if what happened with slavery, JFK, 80 million dead in communist democide, civil rights, long-dead MLK, etc - have no bearing on what America is. As my republican brother says - I don't care if he is BFF with Bin Laden himself if he can get us out of this godforsaken war, fix health care and get the economy back on track - he's got my vote. If your brother doesn't care what happens to bin Laden as long as we flee from his AQ killers in Iraq rather than whack them, get health care instead...I presume you have told your brother that he is really a Democrat?
Dear Concern Trolls, I thought this article at pretty well sums up the nitwittery that you expect Obama and ONLY Obama should be held accountable for.
Badger: I totally agree in general with the philosophical thrust of your last post. True enough one of our major problems IMO is that we seem as a civic culture constitutionally (as in cultural ethos) Well, at Munich, while waiting in the anti-room The upshot of this story is that yes indeed, a President is often asked to deal with some pretty Walter Wriston, the CEO of Citicorp once said at a shareholders meeting that investing in places like Russia wasn't risky, because "countries don't go broke." One sweet little old lady shareholder replied: "Yes, but banks who invest in them often do." Ayers and his coterie of academic acolytes may be immune to the bankruptcy of shame, but others who invest in willing associations with such people often are not--especially when they are asking for the votes of the very people Ayres would have willingly killed.
"But the ease and willingness with which Obama compromised his personal honor consorting with a man who had killed his fellow countrymen and attempted to overthrow the very government he(Obama) wishes so devoutly to lead--well--that is too much for this geezer to swallow." Virgil, you wrote that entire post and the only thing that you will get from it is being branded as a liar. You may desire that these two men once consorted in order for your ilk to define the BIG LIE about Obama, but the evidence doesn't support your desire. And please take this opportunity to go have a sexual encounter with yourself.
Mikelx: Me and my "ilk" is jes fine with the historical record. As to how that record is to be interpreted by one and all--THAT is something about which one and all may honestly, earnestly and honorably disagree. Many commentators supporting Obama have advanced explanations for his actions that, while not carrying the day as far as "I" am concerned, are otherwise reasonable and rational. Unfortunately for their cause their champion chose a different tack. The casual ease with he (Obama) steadfastly downplays the seriousness of Ayers' actions, while simu- ltaneously inferring that anyone raising concerns about the matter is not a "serious" person
Virgil, I know it how it must anger you that Barack had the audacity to become a success story, but his success is based on the fact that most of the country is sick of the shit that comes from the keyboards of disgusting imbeciles like you.
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That's because no one know who the F Ayers is!
No one cares about some crap that happened 40 years ago when the whole country was in turmoil. Geez! I am not excusing Ayers' actions but find them completely irrelevant to Obama.
As my republican brother says - I don't care if he is BFF with Bin Laden himself if he can get us out of this godforsaken war, fix health care and get the economy back on track - he's got my vote.
Posted by carrie | April 17, 2008 10:54 AM