« Some Clarification On McCain's Cap | Main | Obama On His Reach-Across-The-Aisle Record » Reformer v. Reformer16 Jun 2008 05:44 pm Comments (22)
I think the framing of this poll is wrong. Accomplishents are good, but it also ignores the platforms on which the candidates are running and their negative reform histories. 
Expect an avalanche for Obama. Not because of some extensive resume of reformation, but because he's told everyone he's the better reformer and his supporters believe him. Just like the two Frank Luntz focus groups who loved him but couldn't mention a single accomplishment by him. Or his congressional supporter who, when pressed by MSNBC, couldn't name one either.
The "surge" was a reformers policy? Hu? haha.
...but because he's told everyone he's the better reformer and his supporters believe him. "Maverick", anyone?
You have a strange definition of reform. The surge? Tobacco lawsuits?
"You forgot to mention the Keating 5." Ah, yes. The scandal where the special investigator found "no evidence against (McCain)". The scandal where the Democratic-controlled Senate Ethics Committee concluded that McCain's "actions were not improper nor attended with gross negligence and did not reach the level of requiring institutional action against him.". If we want to play this, then Marc forgot to add Tony Rezko after Obama.
Douey Cheetam, Where McCain received $100,000 from Keating, and was criticised for 'questionable conduct'. Came shining out that one. Try harder fuckwit.
"Try harder fuckwit." Is it possible for you to have a civilized debate? Or is that just the level of class I should come to expect from those on the left? "Where McCain received $100,000 from Keating, and was criticised for 'questionable conduct'. Came shining out that one." And yet even Democrats concluded his "actions were not improper".
McCain is a reformer because he is a republican who occasionally prior to running for president in 2004 acted in a manor that was not completely reprehensible.
Oh, this is nonsense. Obama didn't have a thing to do with health care reform or ethics legislation. The senate majority leader, Emil Jones, took legislation away from other people who had been working on it for years and put Obama's name on it. In other cases, he took legislation that had largely been written and gave it to Obama over more senior people, all because Obama and he had struck a deal: he gave Obama legislative "achievements" on paper so that Obama could run for the Senate without an empty plate, and Obama gave him lots of pork when he got to the Senate. Cite with the original article by Todd Spivak. Really, it's profoundly dishonest to repeat the meme that he "achieved" anything while in the state Senate.
Basically a question asking "who are you voting for", isn't it?
Or his congressional supporter who, when pressed by MSNBC, couldn't name one either. Wrong. The guy you're referring to was a Texas State Senator. He should obviously have been more informed before appearing on TV, but it isn't really apparent why a State Senator should know anything about specific bills in Congress. You want to know about Obama's record of reform, besides the ones listed above, how about the fact that he essentially perfected the small donation fundraising model in the primaries -- effectively making the power of the bigwig fundraisers slim to none. He raised $55 million in February while attending ONE fundraiser. Or how about the fact that not only has he not accepted money from federal lobbyists, he's now gotten the DNC to adhere to the same approach? Or that he has effectively shut down 527s on the Dem side? As for McCain, as others have said, the problem is that his past record doesn't line up with McCain Version 2008.
effectively making the power of the bigwig fundraisers slim to none Oh, nonsense. Obama is extremely reliant on bundlers, and his bundlers have a big voice in his campaign.
I don't know what to make of McCain's support of the Gang of 14. Being part of the gang put him in the middle. But he also pledged to the Christian Right that their judges are his judges. Then he told Democrats that he liked Clinton's appointments. Does he actually have a position? To a lesser extent, the same is true on immigration. He started out in the center, then moved to the right as his primary campaign progressed. On campaign finance, he's often spoken out against 3rd party advertising...it would be interesting to hear his current thoughts on BCRA. If he's going to try to be all things to all people, this could be a long 5 months for him.
McCain would have a pretty good claim to be a reformer, except he is a Republican and supports the bulk of their platform. So calling him a reformer is ultimately like calling the cleaning lady in the Bordello "virtuous."
I think the fact you could only come up with 2 things to list for Obama (ethics, IL health care) and 5 to list for McCain (BCRA, tobacco, immigration, Gang of 14, the surge) answers the question without the poll being needed!
Oh, this is nonsense. Obama didn't have a thing to do with health care reform or ethics legislation. The senate majority leader, Emil Jones, took legislation away from other people who had been working on it for years and put Obama's name on it. Actually, ethics reform was passed in 1998, 5 years before Emil Jones became majority leader in 2003. Don't pretend like you know what you're talking about, Cal.
Do you people know how to read? Barack Obama has done NOTHING in the Senate, nothing in the Illinios congress, and his only project as a "Community Organizer" is a huge failure.
He is all words, no action.
And contrary to Cal's assertions, Obama did play a signifigant role in enacting health care reform in Illinois. Jonathan Cohn wrote an article about Obama's efforts in the New Republic: In 2002, when Democrats won back control of the Senate, Obama became chairman of the Health and Human Services Committee. And it was from that perch that he adopted his other noteworthy health care cause, a measure called the Health Care Justice Act....
McCain probably has the "sexier" issues on which he can show a clear break from his party. The problem is all those sexy examples come from a time long since passed, and constitute little of the platform he's now running on. Also, how is 'The Surge' a break issue for McCain? Last time I checked it was Republicans/conservatives for it, and Dems/liberals against.
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You forgot to mention the Keating 5.
Posted by goethean | June 16, 2008 6:12 PM