The co-chair of Iowa Students for Hillary is endorsing John McCain for reasons you can read about here. On the one hand, these stories are flies in the forest -- individual folks making their own choices. But the Clinton community is tight-knit. When folks go off the reservation, other folks follow. So far, the Clinton-to-McCain defectors are drops in a bucket; will they ever be anything else? It's eminently clear that Obama, while doing better at this point in the cycle that John Kerry did in 2004, cannot simply assume that undecided Clinton voters -- white working class men, older women, suburban women -- will not be influenced by these stories.
« The Gap | Main | Obama And A Racial Premium » UnityWatch: Hillary Student Chair Endorses McCain12 Jun 2008 04:52 pm Comments (50)
Seriously. McCain is still working to get the endorsement of Chuck Hagel three months after securing the nomination, and Ambinder is worried about Obama losing a college student in Iowa? Sheesh. 
This is not newsworthy, even for a blog.
This has got to be loads of fun for the McCain staff. It can put out a release regarding any defection by a Hillary volunteer who had a modicum of responsibility, and suddenly certain reporters start calling it a "movement" and reporting on it as if it's a big deal. If they talk about it enough, then Obama's got to spend time tending to his base, which validates the media's coverage, sparking more coverage, and a cycle ensues. McCain's staff just has to sit back an giggle. Being the McCain wrangler of Hillary-ites for McCain has got to be the best job in the business, if only because the impact of any minor defection is so magnified by press coverage. This isn't Zell Miller, Chuck Hagel or Joe Lieberman, folks. It's not even the chair of Hillary's Iowa effort, as Marc's headline implies.
I ditto Gabriel.
Ahh, yes the ancient truism: as the delusional Iowa college student goes, so goes the nation. What no more Jim Johnson "reporting" today?
This "co-hair" is a regular poster on hillaryis44, you really shouldn't read too much into this
Marc - This is a college kid in Iowa. How many votes does she bring to the table? Seriously, is there any evidence that she can change the votes of everyone on her floor of the dorm, let alone 1,000 or more Iowans? The Hill Newspaper -- not exactly a haven of Pulitzers -- had a more interesting story today, about the 14 GOP Members of Congress who refuse to endorse McCain. http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/new-gang-of-14-wont-back-mccain-2008-06-11.html Somehow, I think Rep. Peterson can influence more votes than this college kid.
As a former journalist, I'm usually disdainful of those who scream "media bias." But this posting is absurd. First, the headline is misleading: This is not the chair of Students for Hillary -- it's her Iowa chair. Second, this just isn't news. I know we're in the "post-filter" "isn't blogging great" world, but journalists used to have a filter regarding whether a person carries enough weight to merit reporting on their "defection" to an opposing candidate. It used to be that to get coverage for defecting, you had to be a Congressman, or at least a small-town mayor or alderman.
Off topic, but had Obama announced May fundraising numbers yet? What are they? Thanks.
This is a college-educated, 20-year-old boy. Why would "white working class men, older women, suburban women ... be influenced by" this story, as the posting asserts?
God, Marc, your useless GOP water carrying and Obama Concern trolling are getting very tedious. There are always these kinds of nutjobs, who refuse to endorse the winner, especially after a long brutal primary, but I never see you talking about Ron Paul and the fact that he has refused to endorse Senator McCain and that Bob Barr is sure to draw some votes away from your barbecue Buddy. Is this really what you're getting paid for? Pointless navel gazing posts about crap that isn't even your problem. Oh wait, I think we all know the answer to that. I'm sure your concern trolling is noted, but I trust the Obama Campaign to do what they have to do to win (The latest Iowa polls show Obama with a comfortable lead, so a nice big STFU would be nice from you)
This is a college-educated, 20-year-old boy. Why would "white working class men, older women, suburban women ... be influenced by" this story, as the posting asserts?
The victim mentality has come into full bloom for these two kids. It's kind of pathetic to read. They pull out the chestnut that Hillary was crushed by the media, not her own poor campaign moves or Bill's blunders. (Hint: If the TX vote is critical to you but you don't understand how the TX system 6 weeks prior the vote, that's a blunder. If you blow gobs of cash in Iowa, that's a blunder. If you have no strategy past Super Tuesday, that's a blunder.) They parrot the Clinton campaign's line about Michigan, ignoring the fact that their candidate is on tape saying that being on the ballot doesn't matter because the vote doesn't count. Hillary gets everything, Obama gets nothing! They bemoan names that they heard Hillary called by ... who exactly? And no mention of the Hillary cozying up with Richard Mellon Scaife, Bill going on Rush's show on the day of the TX primary, or Rendell saying Fox was the most evenhanded station ... all right-wing noise machines that tore the Clintons apart, but were all fine and dandy when it suited her purpose. This was an emotion filled sob, not a weighing of the issues. Maybe by their senior year, they'll learn how to think, but they have a long way to go.
RE: Debbie I'm especially interested in the answer to your question, given that the only response to Marc's linked post comes from a 53-year-old woman who seems decidedly unswayed by this.
It's unclear to me that "these stories" are worth reporting. I'm the former president of my school's Hillary Clinton organization and I doubt my personal endorsement is news worthy, let alone somethign that should influence thousands of voters I don't know. Why does this kid, who is obviously a radical exception, merit such a reaction?
Why do all of you people who hate Ambinder so much feel the need to post your repetitious, uninformative, frequently vulgar and insulting attacks on him and his posts? Why don't you go somewhere else. I wouldn't mind if Ambinder instituted comment control here - a few days deleting all insulting posts might mostly cure the problem, and clear space for some useful discussion. In the meantime I'm glad that he's restored comments here: It's a continual reminder of what an unpleasantly self-righteous, defensive, sophomoric group the Obama supporters are. That's one of the main reasons that so many Hillary supporters aren't coming around. Yes, they have problems with your candidate, but they'd probably fall in line like good liberal Democrats if it didn't mean having to give in to the likes of you all.
Hillary Clinton has an obligation to speak up right now to her supporters to stop this sort of thing. Her silence is hurting the Democratic Party and Obama. Is this her plan? What's going on here? She promised to "campaign her heart out" for Obama. OK where is she? Now is not the time to rest yet. This is a critical moment. HILLARY! "NOW IS THE TIME FOR ALL GOOD WOMEN TO COME TO THE AID OF THE PARTY."
RE: CK MacLeod Maybe you are referring to other posts, in which case you can disregard my response. But can you indicate which of the comments in this thread you found "vulgar and insulting"? I think many of these comments were warranted. Marc questioned whether the opinions Iowa student co-chairs for Hillary might influence "white working class men, older women, [and] suburban women." I fail to see how he found that conclusion plausible. I think (hope) that many of the above comments were made in part because the readers typically enjoy this blog, and would like for the posts on it to be of a certain quality.
CK, I was with you for a little while. Nodded my head a couple of times. I get sick of the ad hominem attacks. But, really, this post is incredibly lame. The blog isn't - there is often lots of good stuff here, but this post is lame. The plural of anecdote is not data. And if Mark is willing to admit that these stories are "drops in a bucket" now, when the disappointment for Hillary supporters is at its highest, why on earth does he think they will magnify later? There are good, rational reasons why people might have a preference of Clinton>McCain>Obama. I would have had to give strong consideration to McCain if Clinton had won the nomination because one of the most important issues to me is who will respect the division of powers in the government. I don't know how I would have voted in a Clinton-McCain matchup. I probably would have voted for Clinton, but I am glad I don't have to think about it anymore. So I can understand if people don't just automatically "fall in line." But at the same time, if people are going to have their vote determined by blog commenters, then, well, wow. They maybe should think about the candidates' differences on the economy, and the war, and Supreme Court nominees ahead of the blog comments.
Marc, time to turn the comments off I think. This is a shocker of a post. Matt has a post today stating: which to my knowledge you haven't mentioned, although it could be considered news....but not running it might be ok.....then this. Water-carrier indeed.
Why isn't anybody making mention of how a whole GOP Chamber refused to endorse McCain? Barack is actually far ahead in the vote with Clinton backers that are apparently not going to McCain. McCain is having a much harder time rallying his base then is Obama. But lets not mention that right?
Many of us Clinton supporters will vote for McCain because he is a centrist on most issues like Clinton. Obama is the spokesman for a fifth column, a fascist cult of personality, that seeks to use "us against them" to divide and then conquer. His mafia is racist: 90% plus black vote, stupid naive kids (Hitler) and wealthy cry baby bourgeios bohemians(clooney speilberg). Notice Obama was first supported by the loser faction in the Democratic Party. It was a whole line of losers coming in behind Obama in the first few months. The Kennedies RUINED the Democratic Party. It wasn't until the Clintons that the Democrats became a powerhouse again. Just the fact that Obama is polling even with McCain shows what a weak candidate he is. Obama truly digusts me. His angry, vicious wife, his psycho church, his criminal best friend Rezko. This guy is a real horror show for America.
Marc, if we're not meant to post under pseudonyms, then neither should you.
Responding to ... Clinton die-hards at the University of Iowa, University of Iowa Democrats president Luke Oglesbee emails over a very on-message statement: The University of Iowa Democrats and College and Young Democrats of Iowa regret the decision of Cody Eliff and Nikki Dziuban to endorse John McCains candidacy for President of the United States. The last thing our country needs is another 4 years of broken promises and failed policies given to us by George Bush and John McCain. As our party begins to unite after a historic and exciting contest, we urge all young and collegiate supporters of Senator Clinton to follow her steadfast lead and join us in electing Barack Obama our 44th President this November.
I read the linked blog; The name of the blog was the Truth Caucus. There were no facts only opinions. Marc I suggest that before you link to that Blog again you ask them to change the name to Nonplus Caucus. That's how I felt after reading the title and then the contents. You present yourself as a professional but behave like a political hack. The Atlantic sank in recent years, I did not realize the extent.
I am huge hillary supporter, not quite sure about obama. To answer why hillary hasn't spoken up the DNC has probably told her to sit down they tried to get her out of the race for a long time. So my view is that Obama is talking out of both sides of his neck about how important hillary will be then basically probably telling her we don't need ya anymore bye bye.
Oh and everyone dissing the person for beign just a 20 year old college student isn't that a big part of Obama's base so why doesn't this student count?
These replies are excellent. Ambinder needs to read them and learn from them. This is such "Bush" league journalism.
It's not a question of her not counting, it's more that one single person does not make a newsworthy post, let alone an excuse read more into it than exists. 14 Republican members of congress have refused to endorse McCain - that's a story that broke yesterday and MT posted, but its not relevant to Marc apparently, but a Student Chair apparently is big news. That's what people are pissed about. Don't try the 'doesn't count' gambit.
Once again, a disgusting attempt by the media to cover up a valuable second-place endorsement for Cynthia McKinney.
I don't know if you guys need to bash Marc *so* bad. I think it's interesting that some Hillary supporters are *this* bitter. Surely, these folks know McCain's ideas on gay rights, reproductive rights, the economy, and Iran, right? Oh, thats right, the media is blogging the horse race and not even doing a cursory job on the facts. I would expect in 3-4 months as people get to know McCain the folks left in his corner are relativley few and far between.
Seriously ridiculous post. Cody Eliff was one of the most fanatical supporters on hillaryis44.com. Are we really suprised that he became a deadender??? I'm not and neither should you. So the question is will a previously unknown hillary supporter who know advocates voting for McCain OR of all alternatives Cynthia McKinney, going to convince a working white mom to vote for 4 more years of George Bush... You're smarter than this post suggests.
This is news. Whether it is a harbinger for the general we can only wait and see. But it is news. The GW college Dems prez did the same thing. Please continue to report the news. If you don't like it and want your Obama news served up only positive, go read Andrew Sullivan.
This idiocy got me thinking. Are there any Clinton supporters that anyone has ever heard of that have come out for McCain. As Sherlock Holmes would tell you: sometimes the failure of the dogs to bark tells you a great deal about the situation. (Clever headline for the Natiional Enquirer, but real adults--at least those with IQs higher than Kale--find this kind of game gets real old, real fast.)
Clinton supporters are not a monolith. They are a varied group. Some cannot support Obama because, gasp, they disagree with him. So they prefer McCain. The press acts as if this is just some menopausal moment while "older white women" come to their senses. Guess what? I have been a Democrat for 30 years. I cannot and will not vote for Obama, because to do so would violate my conscience. I feel the same, for different reasons, about McCain. I am not "wasting" my vote as some people have said. I am choosing deliberating not to give it to either of these candidates. I have a J.D. and Ph.D. and am capable of rational thought. I will vote for candidates other than for the office of president of the United States. I am a voter. But I will not vote against my conscience. There are many like me. We aren't blind supporters of Clinton. We agreed with Sen. Clinton and found we could support her. We are not part of a cult of personality, however. She can support Obama; that is her choice. My choice is to leave the Democratic Party unless and until it becomes a party with values I can respect. P.U.M.A.
I'm stumped at what makes this less-than-half the day's events newsworthy. Unless there is an agenda to persuade by highlighting a fairly irrelevant event and ignoring a greater one, this just makes no sense. McCain's challenges with sitting Republicans surely exceed the loss of a college student in the who's leaving whom horserace. Stories like this one reinforce the idea that McCain is centrist, when an examination of his promises in this campaign reveal that he is anything but. Clinton and Obama were fairly close together on just about every issue. The interesting question here is just what was this student supporting in supporting Clinton? But of course, that's not a question that any one seems to be asking. On the other hand, if there is a deliberate media agenda to mislead people, then this kind of post makes great sense. I'm not saying there is, but I picked this link up from Google News, so the headline is out there. The assumption, if this were hackery, is that most people don't read through or think through what little they read, so a headline does the damage while the story, though it tells some of the tale, tells too little too late. Here's what I'm hoping for in this election. Everybody think for yourself about the big picture consequences of your vote, the costs to the nation, what's really at stake, and which approach to governance is going to do best to serve the common interest and your interest as well. Instead of voting because of who is on whom's side, vote because you care about the future of our country and recognize your responsibility to do your best thinking on something this important. I'm not impressed that a college student is easily swayed to vote for a hidden extremist ideology from a seasoned politician (McCain) over a relatively new and relatively unencumbered politician's (Obama) idealism. Just look at the way college age kids respond to tobacco advertising, poke holes in their skin and engage in other high risk behaviors, etc.etc. There are exceptions, but the early twenties don't generally represent a time when critical thinking skills are fully engaged. And for this student, I'm saying they most certainly are not. But I am concerned to see The Atlantic political coverage highlighting less than half of the day's events during this critical run up to the election.
After reading what mccain called his wife 15 years ago, coupled with a display of his uncontrollable anger I witnessed on TV a couple of years ago, I wouldn't trust this fellow one iota. Yes, he was brave to the extreme in Vietnam, but that does not excuse his boorish and misogynistic temperment. This is behaviour that might have been expected from a certain type of man in the middle of the last century, but not even remotely acceptable now, and most certainly not for a head of state. We've had 8 years of a barely literate incompetent in office already, speaking as though his mouth is full of kleenex, we now need to step into this century and get someone who will move us forward into the future.
Given your concern about McCain's "behaviour," my guess is Obama has the non-American vote locked up!
Actually they simultaneously endorse McCain and the Green candidate, two people I suspect have absolutely no overlap in policies, experience, etc. I'll be we could get them to toss in Bob Barr. As others note, they're hardly indicative. Yes, the "this isn't rational, it's emotional"* Hillaryites are embarrassing, but they're not representative, just more soundbitey. *From ThePage, bizarrely linked on Goldfarb's new McCain blog along with the Hillary-supporter-seducing Abba video. The blog's view of Hillary supporters is...interesting.
If I was the Chair, I would not only endorse McCain over Obama, but the Sofa, the Coffee Table, the Rug, the Linen, the Jewelry, the Cutlery, the Knick Knacks, the Bric A Brac, and the Family Pet. Any one of them is smarter and more useful than that Undead Zombie that climbed out of the Sewers of South Side Chicago.
Kathy, did you miss the fact that Clinton and Obama have very similar policy proposals? Or was that just asking you to think a little too much? Robert Ethan, you are never going to be a chair, so I suggest you accept your permanent status as a tool. And why are you describing John McCain as emerging from Chicago? Grandpa Numpty is from Arizona these days.
Wow, you don't see what's happening even when it's unfolding in front of your eyes. Newsflash Obama-bots: HRC supporters ARE defecting over to McCain in mass numbers. They are crowding McCain's blog site, the Citizens for McCain site, Democrats for McCain, and PUMA. You lost. You will lose. HRC doesn't need to do ANYTHING for Obama. She's endorsed him - what else do you want??? If your idiot can't cross the finish line on his own without the media air-lifting him there, can't close the deal on the 'vile woman', what are you doing wondering why we've gone to McCain? We had the best qualified centrist. You offed her. Thank heavens the Republicans put up a well-qualified centrist too. The move was oh so easy.
Sharonevolving, "the move was oh so easy". Presuming you werent anything but trolling, I'd be interested how 'vile woman' is such a terrible epipthet, yet calling your second wife a cunt, having earlier left his first wife once she was disabled doesn't raise any issues with you.
Not until now did I really understand why Marc was complaining about his angry commenters. The idea that Marc is pro-Clinton or anti-Obama is ludicrous. Anyone who isn't an Obamaton Koolaid drinker sees a site that is cautious and basically pro-Democrat. Example 1: his ludicrous poll that assumes undecided white voters who don't ultimately vote for Obama are racist. Example 2 and more to the point: He only mentions individual voters and emailers who "defect". He hasn't once linked into the many sites that are dedicated to convincing Democrats to support McCain, like mine: Don't Be a Good Democrat or PUMA, or Clintons4McCain, or whatever. And again, I ask Marc to start linking in the sites run by usually Democratic voters who are dedicated to defeating Obama. It would be more honest than the penny ante nonsense you're doing now.
LFC you said it all. What i would like to her repub propaganda team members address is how grandpa lost the last primaries to candidates who dropped out months ago? Romney got more votes than him, and so did huckabuck in some States even though they conceeded a long time ago. What that says to me is many repubs are not thrilled with grandpa and he cannot energize them.
Sorry Marc, I tend to agree that this isn't all that newsworthy. Some group of supporters almost always threaten that if their preferred candidate doesn't win, they will vote for the opposing candidate. As a 20 year old student myself, I must advise that it isn't helpful when you folks go on disparaging young people as a group. We are not a monolithic bunch, and those of us who spend their days poking themselves is definitely not the rule, but the exception. Like adults, some of us are rational, some of us are stupid, and some of us don't give a shit. Go figure: we're like the general population. I'm an indy-leaning dem, and I wholeheartedly want Obama to be president. There's just no reason to be a centrist in this election: what is the centrist's position on Iraq? There is none. Either we stay or leave. Most hillary supporters who are leaning McBush have bastardized the meaning of the political center. We are supposed to vote out the folks who don't deserve to be in office regardless of PID, and that is clearly the Republicans this time around. I have no doubt that in a few years, the dems will need to be thrown out as well.
Sorry Marc, I tend to agree that this isn't all that newsworthy. Some group of supporters almost always threaten that if their preferred candidate doesn't win, they will vote for the opposing candidate. As a 20 year old student myself, I must advise that it isn't helpful when you folks go on disparaging young people as a group. We are not a monolithic bunch, and those of us who spend their days poking themselves is definitely not the rule, but the exception. Like adults, some of us are rational, some of us are stupid, and some of us don't give a shit. Go figure: we're like the general population. I'm an indy-leaning dem, and I wholeheartedly want Obama to be president. There's just no reason to be a centrist in this election: what is the centrist's position on Iraq? There is none. Either we stay or leave. Most hillary supporters who are leaning McBush have bastardized the meaning of the political center. We are supposed to vote out the folks who don't deserve to be in office regardless of PID, and that is clearly the Republicans this time around. I have no doubt that in a few years, the dems will need to be thrown out as well.
Sorry Marc, I tend to agree that this isn't all that newsworthy. Some group of supporters almost always threaten that if their preferred candidate doesn't win, they will vote for the opposing candidate. As a 20 year old student myself, I must advise that it isn't helpful when you folks go on disparaging young people as a group. We are not a monolithic bunch, and those of us who spend their days poking themselves is definitely not the rule, but the exception. Like adults, some of us are rational, some of us are stupid, and some of us don't give a shit. Go figure: we're like the general population. I'm an indy-leaning dem, and I wholeheartedly want Obama to be president. There's just no reason to be a centrist in this election: what is the centrist's position on Iraq? There is none. Either we stay or leave. Most hillary supporters who are leaning McBush have bastardized the meaning of the political center. We are supposed to vote out the folks who don't deserve to be in office regardless of PID, and that is clearly the Republicans this time around. I have no doubt that in a few years, the dems will need to be thrown out as well.
One is too Liberal, the other too Conservative. Sad, but true. The best candidate got away.
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Here we go again on this blog, now with another subject.
Objective Reality:
GOP's candidate McCain is getting fewer endorsements from GOP than Obama is from Democrats, and McCain having as much or greater trouble holding Republicans than Obama is holding Democrats.
Atlantic Ambinder Blog:
Obama having trouble.
Posted by SamSinister | June 12, 2008 5:01 PM