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Your Electorate, Folks

17 Jun 2008 05:59 am

ABC News and the Washington Post are out with their first post-primary poll, and, as should not be surprising, it is fairly identical to the results found by CNN, Fox, USA Today, Gallup, CBS News, NBC News. (These polls are the gold standard; with Gallup tracking daily, wouldn't it be better if the networks put their resources into state polls?).

There is a remarkable consistency across all these polls, one that helps us draw certain boundaries around the electorate. There will always be variation, either random or events-driven, but the rough plot lines of the next few months are clear:

(1) McCain runs better among Republicans than Obama does with Democrats. The difference is not that big -- eight points in the CBS News survey, if I recall, and five points here -- but it is noticeable. This is probably an after-effect of a contested primary; it may also have to do with racism, with unease about Obama's resume, and with unease with the content of his message (butter versus bread.) There are more Democrats than Republicans, so Obama comes out about even, if a little bit ahead. Given the composition of the electorate, he should be doing a little bit better among Democratic women, among white Catholics in the Midwest and among national security-conscious swing voters.

(2) Independents are split almost evenly among the two candidates, suggesting that McCain's reformer/unorthodox branding is sticky. In this environment, Obama should outperforming McCain among independents, and he isn't. This raises a question: is the primary contrast argument of the Obama campaign -- that a McCain presidency is tantamount to a third Bush term -- not yet credible to independents? Maybe -- not yet working? I know that the Obama campaign and the DNC have survey data about McBush and have run focus groups about it, but so far, it persuades the choir, not the congregation.

(3) McCain's tricky balance. Democrats who support Obama are more enthusiastic than then are Republicans who support John McCain. The risk for McCain is not that these folks will switch, it's that, convinced he won't win, they'll stay at work on Election Day because they have no special motivation to vote for him. How does McCain give them the motive? Several options: he changes positions and becomes more of an orthodox Republican and ignites some sort of brand loyalty. Or he could argue that electing Obama represents a clear and present danger to the security of the country, to the prospect for economic growth, to the status of the family, etc. The campaign seems to be halfway there, arguing that Obama is untested and inexperienced and therefore he represents an etc. etc. etc.... but

(4) The economy isn't working well as an issue for Obama. Yes, Americans think he speaks more their concerns, yes, they are more comfortable with Democratic policy positions, yes, they say that the economy is the most important issue to them (Dems, independents, Republicans), yes, the objective condition of the economy is poor and consumer anxiety is manifest... but still. It should be the wave issue of this election, and it's not. The Obama campaign assumes that the election will be a referendum on the Bush economy, but it may well be that, as Obama himself has said, voters don't believe that the president has much control over the economy and therefore, when those 10 million or so independent/swing voters select the attributes that will guide their choice, economic stewardship isn't one of them. Put another way, it's much easier for an election in 2008 to be a referendum about the war -- politicians made choices that led directly to the war -- but it is objectively difficult for voters who have a basic knowledge of economics (even if it's intuitive) to blame the Bush tax cuts. The economy is working for Obama, but it's not working as well as it ought to be. Does he need a new argument? Is a new argument out there?

(5) Obama is in a better position to do much better. There are general questions about who Obama is, what he wants, what he's done, and what he will do, but as ABC News polling director Gary Langer notes, "for all these challenges, Obama retains strong fundamentals on issues and attributes, with highly motivated support and broad general appeal." Americans think he'll win the election; a major of adults want him to win the election; Americans like him and trust him personally. This tells me that they are ready to be persuaded, as opposed to waiting to be dissuaded.

Comments (28)

As you suggest, Marc, I think (1) can be attributed to the long primary season, as well as to the too-true maxim that Democrats seem to fall in love, while Republicans fall in line. As an Obama supporter, though, it's (3) that gives me a lot of encouragement. The enthusiasm gap, as well as the massive voter registration drive the Obama campaign is coordinating, has the potential for massive payouts on Election Day that the polls simply aren't going to capture in June, and perhaps not even in late October.

Finally, I think the economy will become much more of an issue (and much more of a clear distinction between the candidates) once the debates roll around. There isn't a single issue - not even national security/war in Iraq, IMO - that the two candidates are more different on than in their approaches to the economy. McCain is simply clueless on this issue, and I suspect that standard GOP "he'll raise your taxes!!" line of reasoning has run its course with respect to the middle class. If Obama can successfully argue that our continued massive spending in Iraq is what's dragging down the economy - and argue that this money is better spent on tax credits to the middle class and serious investments into alternative energy and job creation, this could be a blowout.

Excellent summary, thanks. Obama needs to do two big things over the next few months: introduce himself as a person to the American people, and find a clear and compelling economic theme. If he does so I have a sneaking suspicion McCain may crumble. He is at his best, and most authentically himself, when playing the role of an insurgent, an outsider, a maverick. Well, he's running for president now. And to my eyes he does not look comfortable in that role.

http://marbury.typepad.com

Ps those last two sentences referring to McCain, of course...

I think the Democratic convention will provide a larger than usual boost, as Obama will get a chance to reintroduce himself to the country and deliver what is likely to be a game-changing speech. This is where he excels, after all, and there will also be lots of photos of him clasping hands with Hillary (and Bill).

McCain's temper represents the real clear and present danger, but the difficulty is in bringing that issue forward.

How can the Democrats make it generally known to those marginally involved prospective voters that McCain called his wife a xxxx because she teased him in front of reporters, then gave as an explanation that he was exhausted from the campaign?


When I mention this to Democrats, they are skeptical of its validity. 'That sounds unlikely. How do you know?' When I reply that during a town meeting McCain was questioned about that and did not deny the truth of the story, but criticized the questioner for using such language in a family forum, they still are skeptical.

McCain's media supported friendly persona seems to be holding up, lacking serious challenge.

I think he doesn't have the temperment to be president and that he is a danger, but how can the Democats deliver that message effectively?

At this point: it seems like the entire election is pretty much about him. Which is good news in one sense; he fundamentally can drive his way to the voting booth if he hits the right blend of a coalition. (In my opinon the key is getting a strong woman VP like Sen. Patty Murray.) The problem is that the challenger can fight his way in when the heat isn't on him: McCain is basically in the insurgent position that Obama was in during the primary. Fortunatly for Obama, he doesn't have the resources he did.

I think it all comes down to the female vote. Obama's coalition is larger than McCain's; if he can keep the bulk of HRCs female voters then he will win the election. The question is how to do this; the economy is not why HRC was cleaning up in the later primaries. It was a circling the wagons among female voters and a fundamental distrust among other traditional democrats to Obama.

He needs to find a key to get them back into the family IMO.

Seems like I read some data recently that showed the Democratic candidate never does have the support among Dems that the Republican candidate has--around 10 points lower, I believe.

In 2000 and 2004 Bush won 11% of Democrats while Gore & Kerry won 8% & 6% of Republicans respectively. Thus, I would expect McCain to run about 4-5% better amongst Dems than Obama among Repubs. The Democratic registration advantage (especially in Midwest swing states) gives Obama the edge. Bill Clinton won 10 & 13% of Republicans and lost 10% of Democrats each time. I would be worried in Obama approaches Dukakis numbers (17%) Democratic defection.

In 2000 and 2004 Bush won 11% of Democrats while Gore & Kerry won 8% & 6% of Republicans respectively. Thus, I would expect McCain to run about 4-5% better amongst Dems than Obama among Repubs. The Democratic registration advantage (especially in Midwest swing states) gives Obama the edge. Bill Clinton won 10 & 13% of Republicans and lost 10% of Democrats each time. I would be worried in Obama approaches Dukakis numbers (17%) Democratic defection.

Interesting point from KathyF, and mixed with the fall in love or in line idea I could see it being true.

McCain's been charming independents (and the press) as a maverick for years; of course it's sticky. A lot of people who embraced him in 2000 as Not-Bush were promptly vindicated. But the general election has barely started and already McCain isn't looking too good--so much so that I started to wonder if they were deliberately lowering expectations.

While maverick outsider is clearly McCain's comfort role, he's running to follow a Republican administration while casting Obama as too young and inexperienced--it's very hard to maintain maverick outsider and not quasi-incumbent in those conditions.

It amazes me that you guys write all about these polls without ever raising the race issue. Could it be that the reason Obama isn't running as well as he should be, given all the Democrats' advantage on the issues, is racism? Why is against the rules to talk about that?

I wouldn't expect independents to abandon McCain at this point. While the Obama campaign has been hitting the McBush theme consistently, this isn't the kind of thing that works overnight. They've yet to run a single TV ad fleshing out the argument. And thanks to YouTube, there's a nearly limitless supply of video of McCain tying himself to Bush and changing his positions over and over to fit the right wing playbook (and then denying he ever did such a thing). I'm not convinced his campaign appreciates the danger its in. If McCain isn't careful, this line could doom him.

Another Marc's Pro-McCain slant, who care about the polls at this point? The dynamic of the polls would shift after the first debate. The whole nation will know that McCain is running for Bush's third term. Not only will they know about his position on the issues but majority would desert him after finding out about his policy.

The best thing McCain has going for him is the media and his maverick nature. Republicans are not enthusiastic about him and they won't show up at the poll. Also, the African American base would double their turnout in the key states. Expect Virginia, Ohio, PA, GA, and MS to have higher AA turnout. I feel good about Obama's chances.

Marc - I challenge only your contention that ABC News/WaPo, CNN, Fox, USA Today, Gallup, CBS News, and NBC News represent the gold standard. See fivethirtyeight: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/search/label/pollster%20ratings.

McCain's primary strength as a Republican nominee--his crossover appeal--is (rightly) based on various positions he has staked out over his career. But this perception can only go in one direction between now and November, as he is running away from many of those positions.

He is left, then, with his foreign policy edge, playing the same security card that helped Bush defeat his opponents. This will hold him in relatively good stead, but his bully support of the Iraq invasion (and an indefinite continued presence there--yes, yes, non-combat, whatever) may not sit too well with a public who sees it as a costly mistake that makes is less safe.

Considering that there are more self identifying Democrats than Republicans at this point, I'm not so worried that McCain runs slightly better among Republicans than Obama does with Democrats. I would assume that those who still identify as Republicans given the state of the country at this point would have to be more hard core in their partisan identity than the average self identifying Democrat.

We are less than two weeks into the general election campaign after McCain basically got four months unopposed, and Obama is polling lower among Democrats thanks to the fallout from the primaries, and the economy and McCain's disinterest in it haven't gained traction, and Obama has endured the Wright statements and lost nine of the last fifteen contests, and McCain still can't even get in the lead?!? It is tough to think that anything gets better for McCain. The debates will show Obama looking self-possessed and presidential, and McCain looking angry because, ultimately, they are, and this thing will be a blow-out.

From the poll summary:

Among Democrats who supported Hillary Clinton for president, about one in four, 24 percent, prefer McCain over Obama, and 13 percent pick someone else or say they wouldn't vote.

So much for the "Clinton's supporters will come on board" line of thought, at least this far.

Given his shortfall among Clinton supporters, Obama overall loses slightly more Democrats to McCain -- 14 percent -- than the number of Republicans defecting from McCain to Obama, 9 percent. As noted, independents split evenly.

That's the number that matters and, as you can see, it's hitting much closer to 17% than not.

These numbers are great for McCain. He couldn't ask for more at this point. I don't think there's much the public "needs to know" about Obama that they don't already know.

And to the 13% who are thinking of staying home, remember, you can always opt out of being a good Democrat.

NHCt (9:36) suggests that independents won't abandon McCain. But I think that there is a very real risk that independents (and moderate Republicans) will decide that McCain has abandon them.

Running to the right during the primary is understandable -- unfortunate, but perhaps necessary. But failing to run back to the center during the general election campaign (on everything from the themes he emphasizes to his VP pick) will lead the vast majority of us to go for Obama in November.

Bee, I for one find your parody of a deranged and bitter Obamatron amusing, but I'm not sure everyone gets the joke...

From the poll: "Among Democrats who supported Hillary Clinton for president, about one in four, 24 percent, prefer McCain over Obama, and 13 percent pick someone else or say they wouldn't vote."

This is huge, and contrary to punditry I heard last night on Keith Olbermann's show. Last night, they were saying Clinton supporters are coming over. But 37% are not supporting Obama at this point? Hopefully Obama will convince them. Yikes, what can Obama do to convince these Clinton supporters?

1) The ABC/Post poll notoriously over samples Dems. Do the math for a moment. McCain has substantially more GOP than Obama has Dems and splits the Indis, yet McCain trails by 4%? The GOP brand has seen better days, but this is ridiculous.

2) Swing voters have not bought and are not likely to buy the McBush campaign. McCain has his own well established brand as a gadfly to Mr. Bush. Mr. Obama should be far more concerned about re-establishing his brand after the Clintons swiftboated him with Wright and his "bitter clingers" commentts.

3) The established pattern since 1980 is that the Dem candidate starts with a substantial polling lead at this point in the race which gradually disappears as the voters learn about him and then usually transitions into a GOP victory by the time the election comes around. Obama is starting far behind previous Dems in the polling at this point in the race. Kerry led Bush by ten points in the June 2004 gallup polling. Obama is within the margin of error with only a 4 point lead.

Mr. Obama has reason to be very concerned.

Re: independents -

With the way party ID has shifted in Dem's favor over the past 2 years, it's no wonder McCain is holding his own among Indies.

Those who identify as Indies are more likely to be disaffected Republicans than Dems, and a lot of former Indies are probably now identifying as Dems.

All in all, I think you are presenting a view that attempts to find the common-sense version of what all these polls are saying (ala TR: RIP). Yes, Obama may be doing slightly worse with dems than mccain with his party, but they have had more time to come together. And the point is not only the time, but the fewer "doubt/worry/problem" stories over mccain in the media than Obama has faced (for months on end). These themes are taking their toll. The economy was probably Obama's until the "bitter" episode, which came out right on the heels of the "rock star" stories, that probably turned a lot of blue-collars off, when considered collectively. I believe that he'll do fine when the time comes. It's just been up in the air for him for so long with everyone expecting HRC to come back from the depths and take him away, while JM has been a given for months. Dems are still shell-shocked.

ABC News is offering more internals than the Post article discussed:

McCain has a 20 point advantage over Obama among married white women, which is heavier than the usual GOP advantage here.

About a quarter of Clinton voters are not heeding her transparently insincere call to rally around Obama. This might explain some of McCain's advantage among women noted above.

Obama leads among younger voters who generally do not show up at the polls reliably, while McCain leads by 12 points among the more reliable older voters.

ABC News is offering more internals than the Post article discussed:

McCain has a 20 point advantage over Obama among married white women, which is heavier than the usual GOP advantage here.

About a quarter of Clinton voters are not heeding her transparently insincere call to rally around Obama. This might explain some of McCain's advantage among women noted above.

Obama leads among younger voters who generally do not show up at the polls reliably, while McCain leads by 12 points among the more reliable older voters.

Yikes, what can Obama do to convince these Clinton supporters?

Nothing. If he could have convinced them, they would have come over long ago, what with the press and the Democratic leadership saying that Clinton was over.

The Obamabots best hope they bring in new voters in enough to offset the loss.

I'm an Independent who fervently supported Hillary Clinton, but who also voted in the 2000 primary for John McCain. I would never, and I do emphasize NEVER, vote for Barack Obama. Over the past year I've had a chance to "get to know" Barack Obama and everything I know, I intensely dislike. Apart from his lack of experience (which to me is much more comparable to a third-term Bush than anything about McCain), his associations and character take him out of the running. His lack of judgment and willingness to lie, plagiariaze, and spin words whenever he feels the need do not inspire confidence that he will bring the type of "change" I want. The only "hope" he brings is a downfall of our country. McCain and Hillary Clinton both have a history of bipartisanship, and McCain has a proven track record of service. He is a true leader, not an empty suit. Obama, on the other hand, seems nothing more than an empty suit who can speak well enough when he has a prepared speech (often pilfered from someone else), but who crumbles under pressure and whose association with William Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, Tony Rezco, Louis Farrakhan (to name just a few), included with his double-talk and his own wife's remarks make him unsuitable to be a senator, much less Commander-in-Chief.

After the stunts the DNC pulled -- and there were many, as I tried to contact it throughout the course of the primary season, but was ignored until Obama received the nomination or I was solicited for money (with the notable exception being when John Edwards finally returned my email the day after he endorsed Obama, again asking for money), I don't trust any of them in office.

I'm not alone in these feelings. Many people who were not Independent before have left the DNC and are now Independent and will either stay home on election day or are throwing their support behind John McCain. This is not done out of spite. I would have supported him as my candidate long ago had I not supported Hillary. I stand behind a candidate, not a party. Since my views run the gamut, I don't agree with any candidate on all the issues, but I certainly don't agree with Barack Obama as President at all.