Provocation Of The Day: Is Europe Worried About Obama?

The two major areas of concern appear to be Iran and trade, with the Brits and the European Union having previously expressed jitters about the latter -- but not recently.

Item:

French President Nicolas Sarkozy is very critical of U.S. presidential candidate Barack Obama's positions on Iran, according to reports that have reached Israel's government.

Sarkozy has made his criticisms only in closed forums in France. But according to a senior Israeli government source, the reports reaching Israel indicate that Sarkozy views the Democratic candidate's stance on Iran as "utterly immature" and comprised of "formulations empty of all content."

Item:  " EU trade chief hits at Democrat hopefuls" ....  (This was in May.)
Item: Europe Fears Obama Might Undercut Progress With Iran  (May, too.)
item: Miliband to urge US to stand firm on free trade: report   (May..)

Bringing this up now isn't unfair: Obama has run a whole campaign essentially claiming that if he is elected, attitudes of traditional allies towards the US will change for the better and that's manifestly, well, difficult to claim on both the Iran point and the trade point.

Comments

You're being disingenuous. The relevant questions would be a) What does Sarkozy think about Obama overall; b) What does Sarkozy think about McCain overall; c) How about the rest of Europe? Mutters on one or two issues don't mean much.

Does Obama care what Sarkozy thinks of his Iran policy? Probably to a few degrees, but Sarkozy is not exactly the biggest fish in this foreign policy sea.

Does anyone in America care what Sarkozy thinks about our foreign policy? Rush! Rush is about to discover that he loves the French, wouldn't make a foreign policy move without consulting them!

Posted by Deborah | October 28, 2008 2:38 PM

Apropos of nothing, it will be amusing watching the right wing defend the French President's views over the next four years. My eyebrow will be cocked, and I'll be wearing a smirk.

Posted by JenJen | October 28, 2008 2:39 PM

are you effing kidding me? a completely unsourced report from the israeli government. Hmm. Could it be a report from someone who WANTS to hit Iran? This is pure propaganda and anyone who reads the hebrew version (which I did btw) and know what is going on politically in the country can tell you that this is about the fall of Livni, and Bibi Netanyahu trying to put a wrench on plans to move away from a hawkish position on Iran and wanting his ally McCain to win. Really Marc you should be VERY careful putting this out there. No context. And then you go back to May to make this a huger deal of fear of Obama in Europe?

Posted by lfo | October 28, 2008 2:41 PM

Marc, the French Embassy just put out a statement contesting the article you quoted above:

The remarks attributed by the newspaper Haaretz to the President of the French Republic concerning Senator Obama's positions on Iran are groundless. To the contrary, the in-depth discussions between the President of the Republic and Senator Obama on Iran during their meeting in Paris in July demonstrated a broad convergence of views on this issue. President Sarkozy and Senator Obama agree to oppose Iran's development of a military nuclear capability.

You might want to update your post accordingly.

Posted by Darius | October 28, 2008 2:43 PM

I would bet big that this little nugget came Marc's way via the neocons who will be using it to prop up the 'dangerous' meme. Unless Marc reads Haaretz everyday. Somehow I doubt it. I read it once a week and have never seen Marc quote from it when they have had very pro obama stuff. Just saying. Smells of talking point from the reps to me.

Posted by lfo | October 28, 2008 2:46 PM

Ifo, you are right. Jake Tapper was touting this story also. Suddenly, the French are oh so right! We should do whatever they tell us to do.

Posted by Rebecca | October 28, 2008 2:50 PM

I agree with the general point that European leaders are looking at Obama with greater skepticism then their general public and also what US liberals might think-- HOWEVER, Sarkozy is not among them and he is absolutely head-over-heels for Obama and will do everything in his power to be Obama's Blair (both for domestic political reasons where he needs to seem in touch with minority needs and for foreigh policy reasons to restore France's standing in the world). That ridiculously speculated piece in an Israeli paper seems about as trustworthy as the NY Post's gossip column on the Obamas.

Back to my original point, I think the European leaders are concerned that Obama's popularity with their voters will reduce their negotiating position with the US and make it harder for them to influence the US's foreign policy (i.e., it was easy to turn agains the US on Iraq because of Bush, it will be harder with Obama).

Purely speculatively, from what you hear about Obama from Harvard Law Review on, I'm guessing these leaders will be presently surprised about his inclusiveness of their input.

Posted by Greg | October 28, 2008 2:52 PM

There are certainly some European political élites that are worried about Obama. For the last eight years, those that have taken a more continental rather than Atlantic approach have had a wonderful scapegoat in George W. Bush concerning their relationship with the United States.

Posted by erikoistutkija | October 28, 2008 2:53 PM

yep Rebecca--what really sort of annoys me is that Marc who is supposed to 'report' just passed on the talking points. But whatever. Not even this will tilt the election to McCain. And I would not be surprised to see Sarko royally pissed off at his former buddies the neocons. Mark my words. Also--watch him get tough on Israel via his Foreign Minister very very soon.

Posted by lfo | October 28, 2008 2:55 PM

It might not be completely unfair, but come on, 3 of 4 items from May? Things have changed a little since then, haven't they?

Posted by Chris O. | October 28, 2008 2:58 PM

Both Europe and Asia were all for free trade as long as the US was running up insane debt to purchase their products (particularly true when it comes to Asia, but that's another topic for another day). Now that our demand is about to plummet and all of our economies about to tank; I reckon both Europe and Asia will start reassessing free trade. I think it would be a huge mistake to engage in an orgy of protectionism, but I have serious doubts as to whether or not Europe sticks to its guns on free trade, so I'd dismiss Sarkozy's critique here.

Posted by Tyler | October 28, 2008 2:58 PM

A highly-placed source in the Israeli government told me Marc Ambinder likes to dress up as Shirley Temple on the sabbath, but I didn't repeat it because it seemed silly.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | October 28, 2008 3:04 PM

"Bringing this up now isn't unfair."

You're so right, Mark. Everyone ought to vote for McCain. Not that you told them to, of course. You're just an unbiased journalist, bringing the facts.

Posted by Alan Vanneman | October 28, 2008 3:05 PM

I have a hard time believing this is true. Haaretz is pretty bad with unnamed sources.

Posted by TH | October 28, 2008 3:27 PM

So it matters what the French President says now? Any particular reason? Oh, it fits in with a Republican talking point. It isn't true? That fits too.

Posted by Jack H. | October 28, 2008 3:42 PM

First Europe like Asia is a myth. If you're David Cameron Obama's the best news you've had in years.

The question is whether or not Obama will have a better working relationship will Sarkozy et al than Dubbya has - and I'd say the answer to that is yes.

He'll encounter friction as well though; primarily over improving our relations with Turkey, India and Brazil.

Posted by Dirk | October 28, 2008 4:03 PM

Pity the reality-based shot this down so fast; I wanted to get Limbaugh et al on record as deeply concerned about France's opinion on this and all matters.

Posted by Deborah | October 28, 2008 4:22 PM

Au contraire. Making nice with the Iranians serves American interests. The Iranian population is pro-American. The Iranian regime is not stable. No reason to give the Iranian regime brownie points by making the martyrs. I don't think it necessarily serves European interests to have a close American ally in that part of the world and it certainly does not serve the interests of the European right to have an American president who genuinely wins over or buys off foes; it removes the Euro right's whole raison d'etre of "we shall not negotiate with terrorists" or other Thatcherite words to that effect. The last thing Sarkozy and Merkel want is to have an American president showing them up from the left.

Posted by DBX | October 28, 2008 4:34 PM

Haaretz is no tabloid.Rather it regards itself as the paper of record of Israel and is very left wing. When they quote a senior government official as saying Sarkozy thinks Obama is clueless on Iran, they are quoting a senior government official who they know is giving them trustworthy information.
(I doubt if any right-wing politician even talks to them.) Naturally the French officially are going to deny this, but the phrase "formulations empty of all content" describes everything else Obama says so it rings true from that aspect as well.

Posted by ivrydov | October 28, 2008 5:17 PM

ivrydov writes: "(T)he phrase "formulations empty of all content" describes everything else Obama says so it rings true from that aspect as well."

That a supporter of a ticket with Sarah "Shit For Brains" Palin on it can say such a think is highly amusing.

But did you know that John McCain was a POW? He's also a former prisoner of war.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | October 28, 2008 5:34 PM

Uhmm why hasnt this story been updated with Sarkosy's total denial? Seems like Ambinder is turning into a Sean Hannity kind of journalist. How sad.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Sarkozy_calls_Iran_remarks_groundless.html?showall

Posted by sgwhiteinfla | October 28, 2008 8:14 PM

O come on Marc. It's not like the Obama is friends with all kinds of anti Semites and has agreed to meet with a country that wants to whipe out Israel. Oh wait.....

Posted by Mark | October 28, 2008 8:23 PM

""Sarkozy views the Democratic candidate's stance on Iran as "utterly immature" and comprised of "formulations empty of all content.""

I lol'ed. How horrid of Sarkozy, pointing out the obvious! Apparently only France is allowed to criticize The One without having their remarks deconstructed or minimized as an attack by the Right Wing Smear Machine.

Which is why you won't hear Sarkozy's comments reported at all.

As for the question, "Europe" is worried about Obama, if you (like Europe does) count "Europe" as its own affluent, well educated political class. Those folks are canny enough to realize that they could care less about Obama's redistributionism, even if they would approve of it in their own countries; what concerns Europeans is a US President's foreign policy. As much as they whine about Bush being a cowboy, his machinations never really endangered Europe; what Obama has in mind could.

Posted by hitnrun | October 28, 2008 9:17 PM

"But did you know that John McCain was a POW? He's also a former prisoner of war."

Yeah, and did you know John Kerry served in Vietnam, Obama can say nothing more eloquently than anyone else on the planet, and Sarah Palin is a governor...and you're not?

What's your point?

Posted by MarkJ | October 28, 2008 9:42 PM

MarkJ quotes and writes: ""But did you know that John McCain was a POW? He's also a former prisoner of war."

Yeah, and did you know John Kerry served in Vietnam, Obama can say nothing more eloquently than anyone else on the planet, and Sarah Palin is a governor...and you're not?

What's your point?"

You've just illustated my point. At this point in the race the only people still supporting McCain and Palin are idiots or lunatics.

I suggest that if you think Obama isn't more eloquent than Sarah "Shit For Brains" Palin then you're quite possibly retarded.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | October 28, 2008 9:58 PM

Mark J. said; What's your point?

Mark, I think the point is anyone with a (R) after the name is stupid. Its amazing.

Get ready for 4 years of attack the messenger.

No one in political history has taken more abuse than Bush, yet this gentle article is meet with these comments by the same people that called Bush Hitler...Amazing

Posted by Mike | October 28, 2008 10:13 PM

Astounding that the left protagonists think that Iran is some sort of Bush stalking horse. Haaretz is a _left wing_ leaning periodical...yet unlike America"s left they understand that there are people that want to kill them.

You know Deborah et. al, there is a foreign policy of defense that does not require bending over and greasing up. It does make a difference that France is now involved, intelligently, in world conflict solution.

While the kool-aide left is screaming about the Bushies maybe they ought to look at the new international cooperation. Maybe they ought to look at a France that works with the US to solve major problems.

This has been all in the last year or so but it would be unwise for President Obama to restart all efforts...despite the cries of the netroots.

Posted by Quilly Mammoth | October 28, 2008 10:14 PM

Of course the Europeans are worried. They are on the verge of not having the US do all the dirty work in the world. Things are ideal for them when Bush is president because a) Bush's foreign policy guarantees them security and b) they can sanctimoniously ridicule Bush for the very thing they secretly want him (or someone like him) in office: the political courage to kill bad guys.

And if the Europeans are not worried, then they are not as duplicitous as I presumed; they are plainly stupid. They will be worried soon enough.

Posted by PG | October 28, 2008 10:22 PM

To those leftists chortling at their imagined prospect of "conservatives" defending the opinions of the French, which won't happen, I doubt you have considered the more likely prospect: namely that the Obama-ites will care as little about what the Euros think of his policies as Bush did. And you lefties will be dismissing the Euros in Obama's defense.

Meanwhile, the Europeans, having lived large under the U.S. defense umbrella for these many decades, while adolescently copping a superior attitude about their peaceful natures, will wake up to find the policeman gone from their neighborhood, and their vacation from reality over. Their socialist paradises are not sustainable even with their pathetically low levels of military spending, so they won't be defending themselves, and we won't be there any longer. Since Barney, Joe and Barack, and their flower children acolytes in the reality-based community "know," in spite of zero historical evidence, that militaries cause wars and are not necessary for defense, we won't be defending ourselves much longer either, let alone the Europeans. They, along with the sleeping American public, will relearn the lesson of being careful what they wish for.

Posted by Victor Erimita | October 28, 2008 10:56 PM

Hey, don't think that, if Mr. O wins, people won't use every negative thing that might be found to attack him, undermine him, and diminish his popularity and effectiveness. That lesson has been taught over the last 8 years, and if I can find ways to impede The One, well, guess what? He is not my President, and what he does is done Not In My Name. Dissent is the highest form of patriotism, and I intend to be a very patriotic citizen these next four years. Very patriotic.

Posted by Chas | October 28, 2008 11:06 PM

'I suggest that if you think Obama isn't more eloquent than Sarah "Shit For Brains" Palin then you're quite possibly retarded.'

This comment, coming from someone who posts as Moe and Larry, The Stooges I presume, gives me quite a chuckle. I never considered the Three Stooges intellectual heavyweights. This comment certainly confirms how right I was.

Anyway, eloquence is not intelligence--not even close. In my field in academia I come across eloquent speakers all the time, and yet a lot of what such people say is as dumb as can be. Some of the smartest people I know are barely articulate. Brilliance of the mind doesn't always get cooperation from the tongue. Written articles (by academics) and actions (by politicians) are the best gauge of acuity, I think.

Posted by Tout D. Suite | October 28, 2008 11:27 PM

Hmmm, you go from "according to a senior Israeli government source" to title the post "Is Europe Worried About Obama?" That's a pretty big leap, and you're definitely lacking in context.

Posted by Tim | October 29, 2008 12:39 AM

The French are suddenly right because they've got a Conservative president who has sought a better relationship with the U.S., one whose aims cohere with ours. Thus, if the French are on board wrt Iran but the socialist messiah decides to play footsie with Ahmadinejad, then the West's entire policy is shot because, for the time being, we're still the beat cop. So, when Sarkozy says Obama is an empty suit, apart from it being true there's also this that he's dealing with the reality that America (as led by the false messiah) will be acting contrary to the best interests of the West.

Posted by SilentWatcher | October 29, 2008 1:22 AM

Does this mean i can start calling them "French fries" again? Just askin'! (*wink*)

by the way, is he "Nicolas the Frog" ... or what?

Posted by eyeball | October 29, 2008 1:31 AM

How dare he, Sarkozy, criticize the Dear Leader!

Posted by Albert | October 29, 2008 2:06 AM

I personally think the U.S. president ought focus on American interests. Part of that means getting along with other countries, because it's in our interest. And part of that involves ticking off other countries when our interests collide. However, some make the case that we should elect Obama because he'll improve our nation's standing in the international community. To do that involves doing things they approve of and working with them on mutual interests. Comes the question, how will Obama do this?

I was living in France in 1993 when Bill Clinton became president. Oh the French were enamored of him. I received numerous congratulations on my country finally having a good president.

Then he put tariffs on French steel. After that, views were a bit more, what's the word, nuanced.

The world, like the U.S., may be gaga over Obama. But given the range of people he seems to appeal to (Bill Ayers and Christopher Buckley?) a lot of people are going to be in for a disappointment when he starts to govern and actually has to make decisions that cut for some people and against other people. The only question is whether he'll turn out to be center-left and willing to sell out the left (à la Clinton) or an earnest liberal. This will, incidentally, determine whether he becomes a successful president but disliked by the hard left or a flop, à la Carter.

Posted by GeoffB | October 29, 2008 2:15 AM

"At this point in the race the only people still supporting McCain and Palin are idiots or lunatics."

This sentence by itself is enough to vote McCain, just to avoid to be mistaken for a member of such a flock. What a filth!

Posted by DN | October 29, 2008 3:29 AM

If European leaders are not worried about an Obama presidency, they should be. Obama has been attending an anti-white church for 20 years; his former pals Ayers and Dohrn just published a book entitled "Race Course Against White Supremacy". Guess where most of the white people in the World live?

In addition to that, no major European country has ever had a leader as far left as Obama. In addition to that, Europe is drifting "rightwards" right now.

Let me risk a prediction: if Obama is elected, Europe will seek closer links to Russia, China, and India.

Posted by Snorri Godhi | October 29, 2008 3:36 AM

"At this point in the race the only people still supporting McCain and Palin are idiots or lunatics."

If this is the attitude of Obama supporters it is going to be very difficult for him to "heal our divisions."

I can accept that Obama will probably be elected. But I see no reason to change my basic beliefs, which are distrustful of the government (I have worked in government most of my life. I know of what I speak)

Obama is going to have to demonstrate to me and others like me that he respects our beliefs and will not work to prevent us from our place in the government "of the people, by the people."

That means that people like Sarah Palin, Joe The Plumber and me can expect to have our views represented.

Obama talks a good game. But talk is cheap. Every con man I ever met sounded good also. We'll just have to wait and see if he moves to pack his Justice Department with political appointees or if he steers big bucks to his buddies.

Posted by John D | October 29, 2008 4:18 AM

Three Stooges Dude!(yes I get the snide anti-Christian swipe...very clever) How can anyone be so colossally arrogant to assume that everyone who disagrees with them is a complete idiot? Man...step back and take a second look...what are you...14?

The Europeans are head-over-heels in love with Obama because they are told to be so by their media, which is just as monolithic as the American MSM, with the exception that there is no comparable political blogosphere over here. The Euros are just too statist in their very make-up for that.

And Obama isn't more left-wing than any European leader in history by a long shot...but he would be more left wing than any major European leader right now (except for maybe Zapatero).

Posted by EscutcheonBlot | October 29, 2008 4:59 AM

And Obama isn't more left-wing than any European leader in history by a long shot

Not any European leader in history: any elected leader of any major European country in xx-century history.

...but he would be more left wing than any major European leader right now (except for maybe Zapatero).

Fair enough.
Much depends on how you measure how "far" one is to the "Left", of course.

Posted by Snorri Godhi | October 29, 2008 6:00 AM

WAAAAAHHHHH... will these Dems defend the MESSiah if he wins and does something to annoy them?

Posted by mistercalm | October 29, 2008 6:54 AM

I agree with some assessment here, Unless there is some real back up for the quote here - this is a gambit play from the Israeli news paper.

Just a gambit for Obama reaction and to ruck up something in final days of the election...

Posted by Arizonian | October 29, 2008 10:23 AM

Lord Barry heal the bitter ones
Still clinging to their faith and guns
Bow down before the one
Give him your money and your guns

O hail the Messiah Lord Obama

Posted by Larry Moe and Muhammad the Pederast | October 29, 2008 2:24 PM

"are you effing kidding me? a completely unsourced report from the israeli government."

Yeah, everyone knows unsourced reports are only truthy when they're anti-Republican.

OBama, hey 'Bama, 'Bama, 'Bama O
'Bama, hey 'Bama, Obama!
Hey Barry, Barry,
You're all right by me,
'Bama, Obama, hey, Superstar!

(with apologies to Time Rice and Andrew Lloyd Webber)

Posted by malclave | October 29, 2008 3:50 PM

"Does anyone in America care what Sarkozy thinks about our foreign policy? "

I thought the big selling point for Obama was that the world loves him. That is, that many many Obama supporters do in fact care very very much what the rest of the world, Sarkozy included, thinks about us. You know, foreign policy as a popularity contest.

Posted by b | October 29, 2008 4:00 PM