Valence, Visuals Or Issues?

Tonight's winner: Joe the plumber. The candidates would kill for this kind of free advertising. 

Also: Bob Schieffer. The best moderator. This was the best debate. You really got a good sense of where the candidates stood.

More seriously:  McCain and Obama tied on points. Maybe McCain even won on points. Solid policy answers, tough policy attacks, solid command of the facts. The first and last thirty minutes were among McCain's best .

But debates aren't usually won on points.

They're won on valence and visuals.  

Emotions and body language.

And tonight, we saw a McXplosion. Every single attack that Sen. McCain has ever wanted to make, he took the opportunity tonight to make.   Around 30 minutes in, McCain  seemed to surrender the debate to his frustrations, making it seem as if he just wanted the free television.

His substance suffered; it didn't make sense at times. He seemed personally offended  by negative ads; he tried to make a point about Obama's character, but all the sleight were those Obama allegedly inflicted on Obama: the town halls, campaign finance, negative ads, etc. He allowed himself to get caught up in his own grievances. It was just plain unattractive on television. He moved quickly from William Ayers to taxes without a transition.  From Obama's opposition to trade agreements to taxes.  No intermediate steps. Blizzards of words without unifying strings.

The partisans want their candidates to say things that will make the self-same partisans feel good. So when McCain gets angry, lots of Republicans say: "Right on ya! " as if persuadable voters are looking at the world through McCain's eyes and harboring the same grudges and feeling offended by the same.

I think these 20 minutes were McCain's weakest of the three debates, at a time when he could least afford it. 

Now, Obama was cool as a cucumber - a frozen cucumber even -- except for a brief moment in the middle.

McCain calmed himself by the last third of the debate, and gave his best answer on climate change - an issue he clearly cares about and didn't try to demagogue.  He gave a much better answer on abortion that I expected he would. It was nuanced and sensitive.  (So was Obama's).  He was also strong on education - though Obama was stronger, starting with a dose of bipartisan praise and criticizing President Bush and then pointing to a way forward.

Comments

But at least McCain got to say cockamamie. Probably the highlight of his campaign.

I wish him luck during his long, cranky retirement.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | October 15, 2008 10:40 PM

good answer on abortion? didn't mccain put "health of the woman" in air quotes?

Posted by bootowl | October 15, 2008 10:49 PM

Barack Obama sealed the deal today. He was clear and direct. McCain was angry.

Posted by Matt | October 15, 2008 10:53 PM

McCain's very loud and obnoxious sighs during Obama's speaking time seemed pretty offensive to me. And that split screen is going to kill his chances.

Posted by Ellen | October 15, 2008 10:54 PM

McCain was grumpy and made fun of equal pay for women, teachers and health of women. Every women in the group that I was watching debate with thought that McCain was very insulting.

Posted by Erin | October 15, 2008 10:55 PM

Listening to this over the radio, I didn't get the sense of body language that obviously a television viewer would have. I did think that McCain rushed himself when he was moving towards some sort of punch--and often stumbled. I was turned off, not that I was turned on by McCain anyway, at the rush to criticize how many times Biden has been "wrong." Sir, have you met Sarah Palin? Don't go there. Obama, a bit surprisingly, at least SOUNDED impatient and annoyed at some of McCain's assertions...which was a major surprise to me...though he answered them maturely enough. I was however particularly struck by Obama's restraint, which I think might have been foolish, in one respect: why not say, "Hey, your running mate says that I fraternize with terrorists--don't you think that's a pretty dangerous accusation to make? Why aren't you apologizing for THAT?" But he came close enough to the point, I guess. And perhaps it was wisest not to run the risk of whining or sounding immature. (But again: would it really have been immature whining to point out McCain's hypocrisy HERE...on this ONE POINT...really forcefully?)

Posted by Martin | October 15, 2008 10:55 PM

Obama won the debate. It was a clean sweep!

Posted by Hill | October 15, 2008 10:56 PM

McCain had that der in headlights look when Obama called McCain's talking point to be factually wrong. McCain messed it up big time.

Posted by Best | October 15, 2008 10:59 PM

BHO lied about his involvement with ACORN, which is more extensive and more recent. In fact, the BHO campaign sent part of their website down the memory hole when it came out that he actually was an ACORN trainer.

BHO misled about his involvement with Ayers; one of those who was at the kaffeeklatsch chez Ayers said it was the political coming-out party for Obama.

As for the "debate" itself, it wasn't as Sovietski as past "debates", but a real debate would have experts asking a series of questions about the candidates' policies, holding them accountable for the lies they've told about those policies and the incredibly obvious flaws in those policies.

And, if anyone wants a very effective way to defeat Barack Obama, see my name's link. Even if you can't go ask him a tough question, at the least contact those listed and urge them to back that plan.

Posted by Here's how to defeat Barack Obama | October 15, 2008 11:00 PM

Let me tell you that women (because staunch pro-lifers) WILL NOT appreciate McCain's horrific and disgusting answer on abortion and "health of the mother"

Posted by AYL | October 15, 2008 11:00 PM

Obama wins in a landslide!

CBS poll of undecided voters:

Who won the debate?

McCain (R) 22
Obama (D) 53

Shares your values

Obama, Before the debate: 54
Obama, After the debate: 63

Shares your values

McCain, Before the debate: 53
McCain, After the debate: 56

Posted by West | October 15, 2008 11:01 PM

I am not sure how belittling the "health of the the mother" with finger quotations and a sarcastic look is exactly sensitive on abortion rights.

Posted by keith | October 15, 2008 11:05 PM

McCain actually referred to a "health of the mother" provision as an "extreme pro-abortion position." On CNN at that point the womens' dials crashed nearly to the floor. For someone who needs more than the base to win the election, McCain blew that one and with it the race.

Posted by zeitgeist | October 15, 2008 11:10 PM

I was however particularly struck by Obama's restraint, which I think might have been foolish, in one respect: why not say, "Hey, your running mate says that I fraternize with terrorists--don't you think that's a pretty dangerous accusation to make? Why aren't you apologizing for THAT?" But he came close enough to the point, I guess. And perhaps it was wisest not to run the risk of whining or sounding immature. (But again: would it really have been immature whining to point out McCain's hypocrisy HERE...on this ONE POINT...really forcefully?)

I suffered through the numerous Democratic debates and he had the same exact weakness in those. He's cool and cerebral pretty much no matter what, even when somewhat inappropriate. That's just Obama. It's the (perhaps) negative flipside of his incredible cool under pressure.

It used to frustrate me to no end that he wasn't more forceful and blunt in making the most obvious points. Now I can't help but admire his transcendence of emotionality, something I and most people I know can't accomplish. However, I'm glad he picked Biden, someone who can underline some of Obama's meaning with emotion, to run along with him.

Posted by Ban Johnson | October 15, 2008 11:13 PM

Quick question for commenters: I missed the debate and was wondering how and why Obama got a bit upset, as Marc writes. I just wanted to know out of curiosity.

Posted by Deuce | October 15, 2008 11:19 PM

I must confess, in 2000 I supported McCain. I don't know who this angry man tonight was, snorting, rolling his eyes, gritting his teeth. I want the guy with the level and calm head holding his finger over the button, not the hothead. Obama won the night.

Posted by Rob | October 15, 2008 11:19 PM

I realize that the pundits want to give McCain some props by prentending that McCain did ok, but the polls and focus groups tell a very different story.

Normal people saw an angry, creepy, spiteful, unpresidential John McCain who they don't trust with the presidency.

McCain looked like a lunatic tonight. Landing a few punches doesn't negate the fact that McCain looked unhinged the entire night.

Posted by RKA | October 15, 2008 11:21 PM

Mr. Ambinder - I think you missed McCain's biggest major stumble in the debate. Putting the health of mothers in scare quotes was (even for a cold, heartless political junkie like me) despicable. He's going to pay a huge price for that.

Posted by reader | October 15, 2008 11:21 PM

The air quotes around women's "health" infuriated my wife like I've rarely seen. She said, "Typical of someone who's never given birth." I didn't argue.

Posted by Mark | October 15, 2008 11:37 PM

Ban Johnson writes: "It's the (perhaps) negative flipside of his incredible cool under pressure."

BHO being "cool under pressure" is as much a myth as him having a great intellect. He has a narcissistic personality, and people like that are fragile as an egg shell. You saw that tonight when McCain challenged him and he stumbled for words for several seconds.

BHO has almost never been challenged, and if someone calls him on his lies or the flaws in his policies we're going to see just how much of an empty suit he is.

Posted by y Here's how to defeat Barack Obama | October 15, 2008 11:37 PM

Senator Obama is in an ineviable and probably unwinnable position regarding showing displeasure/impatience/anger. It's a very small step from his being perceived as displaying righteous (in the sense of justified) anger, and being seen as being "an angry black man." The latter is simply not allowed. Senator McCain may be criticised for getting angry, but he is rarely, if ever, disqualified for his anger. If Sen. Obama were to "lose his cool," his political opponents would rejoice. Black men, even half-black men, may not be "angry" and run for office. Senator Obama may well be seething about the defamation of his character, the slurs about his patriotism, etc., but he has no choice but to conceal it.

Posted by sjelly | October 15, 2008 11:39 PM

McCain's apparent disdain for the consideration of a woman's health in the discussion of abortion was disgusting. He's lost it, and he doesn't need to be in the Senate any more, much less the White House.

Posted by m in athens | October 15, 2008 11:40 PM

Sensitive on abortion? You must be kidding. His snarky statement dismissing the idea of protecting "the health" of the mother was unbelievably offensive.

Posted by Carrie | October 15, 2008 11:47 PM

y Here's how to defeat Barack Obama | October 15, 2008 11:37 PM

This poster who isn't interested in commenting on the debate would of course have no problem personally appearing in a presidential debate. The fact that as all the polls show Obama once again made McCain look like an angry craps player up against the ultra cool poker player says it all really. Frankly there were times tonight when McCain looked a bit loopy, all that snorting, eye rolling, fake smiles, and the deer in teh headlights moment,

Posted by John | October 15, 2008 11:52 PM

Marc --
Interesting reactions, but I'm surprised that you found McCain's abortion response effective. For who? It came off as very extreme. The moment when he scoffed and sneered at the idea of protecting the "health" of the mother was shocking. That sound you may have heard was the thunder of independent women's footsteps fleeing McCain/Palin as fast as they could go.

Posted by Arthur Morgan | October 15, 2008 11:54 PM

It was hilarious watching the pundits on CNN do their punditry after the debate. Most thought that McCain did very well and scored more points than Obama. But as soon as results from the Ohio Focus Group conducted by Soledad O'Brien came in and the CNN poll results came in showing Obama defeating McCain heavily, suddenly the pundits changed their tune. This goes to show they know nothing and the voters are a lot smarter than these overpaid pundits.

Posted by Ajaz | October 16, 2008 12:00 AM

Piling on, I know, but I really don't see how McCain's answer on abortion was even remotely 'nuanced' or 'sensitive.' It was one of the most extreme anti-choice answers in a presidential debate I've ever heard.

Since when is making an exception only for women's health an extreme pro-choice position? He just told every woman watching that he doesn't value their health and well-being.

Posted by rufustfyrfly | October 16, 2008 12:14 AM

Defeat Obama, I know you are probably actually crazy but regarding Obama's intellect; he graduated summa cum laude from Harvard Law. It's probably one of the top handful of academic programs in the country of any kind. Even if you think he only got there because he was black he still did better than the vast majority of other people there. He can't not be brilliant.

Posted by Michael Foody | October 16, 2008 12:17 AM

Bob Schieffer. The best moderator.

Uh huh.

Actually, he questioned both equally well. But he gave McCain the last word on 7 out of 8 questions - Obama had to assert himself to get the last word on one.

Doesn't affect the outcome, but shows partisanship, perhaps unconscious. Seriously, George W Bush's golfing partner should NOT be moderating debates.

Posted by Anonny | October 16, 2008 12:17 AM

RE: "health of the mother:" being related to a women who once had an abortion because of mental health issues, maybe even mental illness, and also a relatively late term abortion at that, it struck me as a lack of empathy. I wonder how many others have had friends/relatives in this situation and will be turned off (sort of like if you hear anti gay comments and have gay friends). I almost never base my vote on the issue of abortion but this gave me pause.

Posted by Matthew | October 16, 2008 12:18 AM

You thought McCain's answer on abortion was GOOD???

I was so offended by his sneering at the idea of protecting the health of the mother that I don't even have words.

I guess you have to be a woman to get that.

As for Joe the Plumber ... forgive me if his increased taxes don't make me weep. if he's wealthy enough to have to worry, he's not my concern.

I have realized I have no career as a pundit. I have agreed with the polls on every debate and watched the pundit reactions (including yours) with bemusement. McCain won on points? What does that even mean.

Obama owned him tonight and in each of the other two debates. Biden owned Palin. It hasn't even been a fair fight (as the polls have shown).

I think maybe we need new pundits!

Posted by sally | October 16, 2008 12:23 AM

I'll bet Joe the plumber wasn't going to buy a small business that would NET him over $250,000, so he would get a tax cut under Obama. I'm surprised I haven't seen this brought up. I used to own a small business that pulled in $400,000 but after payroll, inventory purchases and other expenses, I came away with less than $40,000. If Joe's small business really left him with over $250,000 net, his business revenues would be around $2 million. If that's the case, he could afford to pitch in some taxes.

Posted by Ed | October 16, 2008 12:32 AM

that "health of the mother" quote is going to hang McCain for the rest of the campaign. He might have even lost some pro life women with his dismissive demeanor about the health issues of a woman. Somebody should have slipped him some xanax before the debate. He actually came off just like the penguin in the batman clip that Ambinder posted earlier. Seriously EVERYBODY should go and watch that clip again RIGHT NOW and see if it doesnt remind you of McCain a little while ago

Posted by sgwhiteinfla | October 16, 2008 12:35 AM

I believe the actual fingers in quote only referred to the word "health". The comment was that the extreme liberal position has used the "health" (finger quotes) to whatever they want it to be, which is what they have done.

If a woman's life is in danger, most Americans don't oppose abortion. But if the pregnancy is just an inconvenience, then saying the inconvenience is a mental health issue is making a mockery of what most legislators meant when they inserted the provision for the health of the mother.

Posted by Is it November Yet? | October 16, 2008 12:48 AM

McCain looked like a dog tonight.
IMHO he isnt a maverick. He is NOT right 4 our country and the world DREADS the day he is in office.

He is full of pork barrel BS and needs to go away. he sucks

Posted by Tiffany | October 16, 2008 12:48 AM

putting "health of the mother" in snide, mocking air quotes is sensitive?

What are you smoking?

Posted by Kathleen | October 16, 2008 12:49 AM

I'm an Independent. Joe the Plumber is dumb!
He's a waste of time! I cannot wait until this election is over! I was a Romney supporter who leaned toward McCain prior to the conventions. After Palin I went back to the center. After these 4 debates, and especially after tonights, I'm voting Obama. I guess I'm partial to his "professorial" demeanor, leadership qualities and thoughfulness. I just cannot handle another president that's dumb. McCain is informed, but he just is too narrow for my taste, and like George Will, I think Palin is unbelievably dense.
Let's et this over with and fix this country. Truthfully, I'm ready for the world to think we Americans respect intelligence and can elect a politician with a brain.

Posted by Bosqcatl | October 16, 2008 12:53 AM

You lie about ACord

ther is no such thing as s political coming-out party

Posted by nick | October 16, 2008 12:54 AM

McCain "gave a much better answer on abortion that I expected he would. It was nuanced and sensitive." Are you kidding? He put air quotes around the "health of the mother." That was outrageous and alienating, even to women who may be personally opposed to abortion. Obama tried to find a way to speak about abortion that more Americans could get behind. McCain was talking to and for his "base."

Posted by Jean | October 16, 2008 12:56 AM

I agree with others: the "health of the mother" was a clear error on McCain's behalf. He basically came off sounding like the health of the mother is irrelevant. It isn't. Not just to mothers, but to fathers, too.

Posted by Jon | October 16, 2008 12:57 AM

McCain has a difficult argument to make that Obama didn't check Ayers' background sufficiently before he started a marginal association with him on an education committee, when the consensus is that McCain didn't vet Palin sufficiently before putting America at risk of her becoming our next President.

McCain doesn't get it that immediately after decrying liberal litmus tests for Supreme Court justices, he applies conservative litmus tests for Supreme Court justices. The American people don't miss this.

I can't relate to Joe the plumber.

Posted by JJ | October 16, 2008 1:00 AM

Marc,
How on earth did you think McCains answer on 'the health of the mother", and abortion, GOOD?????

You, are a McCain fasn apparently, because every other woman in my living room, and I, were so offended, it's not funny!

Clearly, you have no idea what the hell your talking about.

Keep you invalid opinions to yourself! I was redirected to this site, big mistake by HuffPo!

I only like Sullivan, you're wrong!

McCain is nuts and the entire country knows it. The person posting
Defeat Obama, go defeat yourself!

Anyone who would vote for that deranged, and clearly very ill old man, is NUTS THEMSELVES!

Get help, FAST!

You could never understand Obama intelligence, you sure are threatened by it though, big time!

Get the book by Eckhart Tolle, "A Bew Earth", awakening to your life's purpose, it's about your ego driven fear, because people like you are terrified of this guy.

The rest of the country is waking up to the last 8 years of a nightmare. Give it up, you don't make over $250,000, you'll benefit. STOP VOTING AGAINST YOUR OWN BEST FINANCIAL INTERESTS!
WHY WOULD YOU VOTE FOR THE PARTY THAT GIVES TAX CUTS TO THE WEALTHY?

THEY JUST SOCIALIZED WALL STREET AND NATIONALIZED THE BANKS!
THAT'S THE GOP FOR YOU!

Posted by Andrea D | October 16, 2008 1:00 AM

"Spread the wealth" my eye. What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine. You're not getting anything from me. I work hard 80 hours a week, jetting around and entertaining clients on golf courses. You don't. You can't. The reason I have more than you is because you're a loser. I'm a winner. Deal with it.

Posted by Thurston Howell III | October 16, 2008 1:05 AM

I guess I missed the part where McCain was "nuanced and sensitive" on abortion. He used scare quotes around "health of the mother." He accused Obama of supporting infanticide. He sounded like an unhinged protester at an abortion clinic.

Anyway, it's all over now -- except of course the inevitable Bin Laden appearance and the media frenzy to portray it as a game changer for McCain. It won't work. Mainly because you know the Obama camp has gamed that already. He ain't Kerry.

Posted by Jim | October 16, 2008 1:13 AM

Michael Foody: there are bloggers with higher IQs than the Democrat's presidential candidate. He is very smart and very glib, but some of those (Brooks, JulianSanchez, Sully) who praise his intellect do so out of their own ignorance of the issues he's discussed.

If you really want examples, see comments #31 and 36 here:

juliansanchez.com/2008/09/30/desperately-seeking-sarah

Posted by Here's how to defeat Barack Obama | October 16, 2008 1:13 AM

The best part about Joe the Plumber is that John McCain acknowledged that he has been running this campaign at the level of the sewer.

With all that taunting about "spreading it around" how did Barack Obama resist the temptation to joke about being "smeared"?

Barack Obama now reminds me of the dignity of Dwight Eisenhower, the elegance of John Kennedy, the vision of George Washington, and the institutional understanding of Thomas Jefferson.

John McCain reminds me of the injured Bob Dole, the dirty-mouthed Richard Nixon, the dementia of Ronald Reagan, and the smirk of George Bush knowing he had achieved a position he did not deserve.

At the end of the debate did anyone else see John McCain concede and Barack Obama pat him on the back? I think McCain will be voting for Obama in the lame duck special session proposals in December.

Posted by Dr.Dan 2000 | October 16, 2008 2:09 AM

Marc is on to something with this: "He allowed himself to get caught up in his own grievances."

Thing is, to my ears this is how McCain ALWAYS comes off: utterly convinced of his own (often to him hilariously ironic) rightness and his opponent's absurdness. It's everything has a right answer that was determined in Washington some years (maybe decades) ago, and his opponent is advancing the most preposterous, ridicule-worthy theories you could possibly devise. In contrast, Obama comes in seeming nearly oblivious of prior policy debates (though of course he isn't), and almost achieves a let's-sit-down-and-figure-this-out rapport with the audience.

This contrast renders what are often formal debating victories for McCain emotional losses. People don't like the idea that one side has all the answers and the other side has utterly ridiculous arguments. What would it say about the country if that were the case? What does it say to undecideds? It comes close to insulting them for giving merit to each side. Hence, you get Obama frequently crediting parts of McCain's arguments--it acknowledging the good faith and compliments the judgement of the very voters he wants to reach. Barack Obama and George W. Bush were much alike in this way. Bush was running in a country that largely approved of the policies of a president of the opposite party. He had no choice but to be broadly respectful of different opinions on policy. Barack Obama is running in nearly the reverse environment --the country has moved right in the last eight years. The fact that the country has recoiled from the president doesn't really change that fact; in any case the conciliatory preface to a political speechlet is Obama's style generally. (It is also a Senatorial custom, which makes McCain's practice of immediately launching into a snarky dismissal of Obama's positions in every answer all the more glaringly disrespectful.)

Bottom line, in addition to the driving effect of people having largely made up their mind and seeing what they already feel, the other reason that each night, shortly after the pundits declare McCain the winner on points, snap polling comes back with a whiplash-inducing correction, is because McCain is serially unable to land his often legitimate substantive blows with anyting close to the necessary tone of respect and deference to the opposing viewpoint, a viewpoint which has as good a shot of being held by persuadables as the one that inspires his unrefined and often sarcastic attacks.

Posted by Mike | October 16, 2008 2:21 AM

Fred has a good point about the "health" of the mother quote. The problem here is even if it was explained to everybody out there what he is referring to, it's the dismissive manner he presented the quote. I feel bad for McCain because you can see he wants it really bad, he had the lead and lost it and now doesn't know how to regain it. It's slipping away from him and I can sense the desperation in what he does.

Posted by Chris | October 16, 2008 2:44 AM

Ambinder,

"Solid command of the facts"? When McCain completely gets the Health Care Plan fine wrong?...all the while looking like a deer caught in the headlights.

Wake the F---K up Ambinder!!!! Your analysis is becoming laughable.

Posted by Coltrane | October 16, 2008 3:15 AM

I'm well aware of the history of abortion law in the United States, and I also found the sneer quotes around "health" to be pretty offensive. It's also quite clear that both McCain and Palin are trying to be slippery about their actual positions on abortion rights. McCain's comments about vetting Supreme Court justices rang false.

I agree with Sullivan that Obama came across as more mature than McCain. McCain started well, but it seemed that he was trying to goad Obama and became increasingly frustrated when Obama wouldn't bite. I thought Obama did an excellent job speaking to some of the most ridiculous smears against him - he drained the attacks of their power with his calm, matter-of-fact discussion. He has extraordinary self-control.

The point in the debate that jumped out most for me was the discussion about trade agreements. I'm a trade union activist; a friend of mine went on a union trip to Colombia recently, so I'm well aware of the murders of union activists in that country. I was surprised and pleased to hear Obama cite this as a barrier to free trade with Colombia, because it's a topic I rarely hear discussed outside of a union activist context.

Posted by Stephanie | October 16, 2008 3:17 AM

Um, McCain's answer on abortion was not "good" so much as it was sadistic. Or should I say, "sadistic."

Posted by va | October 16, 2008 3:59 AM

Oh, so what McCain said about the "health of the mother" was okay because Supreme Court decisions subsequent to Roe v. Wade have stretched the "health" definition to include almost anything, including inconvenience, hmm?

I DARE anyone who has written as much to tell me that they are a woman. The only women I could imagine who would ever say that would be rabidly anti-choice, under any and all circumstances. I think every person who has written as much here is a man. SHAME ON YOU!

The idea that a woman would be cavalier about a pregnancy that she has nurtured into or past her second trimester is totally ignorant and insulting to women. It COULD happen, of course, but I imagine it would be highly unusual. Should every other woman be forced to give birth to a potentially unviable fetus, or risk her own life, just to stop the one or two women who might do that? Oh, Jane just decided that after six or seven months of not drinking, smoking, regular doctor visits, vitamins, no eating sushi or lunch meat, having flatulence, bloating, painful breasts, planning a nursery and childcare, feeling kicks, envisioning her future child, I jut don't really feel like doing this anymore. I'm having a bad day, and I really want to fit into my skinny jeans again.

My God, why don't you GUYS who have made these statements here just THINK for a minute about what you are saying about women?

Posted by Jules McGee | October 16, 2008 4:12 AM

Two things really struck me and got my attention big time: 1) McCain saying Sarah Palin was a "role model for women" - NOT THIS WOMAN, SIR! - and 2) Obama saying we have to teach our children that "sex is sacred" - I'd never heard ANY MAN say anything like that before and I want you to know that it won my heart (he'd already won my head months ago).

All the rest - to me, at least - was a rehash.

Except perhaps the sight of McCain rolling his eyes (which is a mental image I'd much sooner forget).

Posted by Carmen Cameron | October 16, 2008 4:22 AM

I'm guessing that Marc will be turning those comments back off REAL QUICK.

What's the point of a blog with comments if you aren't going to come back here and defend your self.

There have been several point made, that need and answer from Marc.

1. "He gave a much better answer on abortion that I expected he would. It was nuanced and sensitive."

I was going to add "solid on facts", but lets face it YOU need to answer #1. My wife (who doesn't keep up with politics, and tuned in for the first time) nearly had a heart attack, during that answer.

Posted by rob | October 16, 2008 8:11 AM

Marc, you ended your essay suggesting McSame was calm and nuanced in his abortion discussion.

John McCain air quoted the word "health" when talking about the health of the mother, which was a disgusting show of condescension!!!!! And adds to his total disregard for the "choices" women are allowed to make in America.

"Nuanced"? Please.

Posted by jdunmyre | October 16, 2008 9:13 AM

McCain acted like a spoiled kid acting out because things weren't going the way he's planned them to go. He seemed to equate the hate speech coming from his own campaign and his running mate with the war protesters at his rallies -- once again giving truth to Bush's words, "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists."

It felt like more of the spoiled, frat-brat mentality; more of W. More of the "I deserve this office, 'cause I'll get 'em."

On top of the insensitivity to women and blue-collar workers (sorry Joe, to have you so abused,) it assumes the right to lead because "I know what to do," without much real policy other then cutting taxes. McCain had lots and lots of programs that cost lots of money, and with never a way to pay for them.

Well, we gotta pay the bills. Even Joe knows that. Simple-minded "cut taxes" don't cut it anymore.

Posted by zic | October 16, 2008 9:49 AM

McCain only won on one issue. I'll get to that.

First, as a psychotherapist who observes politicians from 38 years of up close and personal experience with how people manifest what they really feel non-verbally I agree with everything you write. The message McCain sends suggests lying, anger and that he really doesn't have the empathy he pretends to.

Okay, here's what he won on. His ability to jam just about every attack talking point he could into his answers, even if it led to disjointed sentences and a lot of spluttering and stumbling, suggests he doesn't have the memory impairment indicative of early Alzheimer's.

This just leave us to conclude he is a resentful angry man who just can't stand the idea of losing to someone he considers his inferior.

Posted by Hal Brown, Columnist, Capitol Hill Blue (link) | October 16, 2008 10:01 AM

from Is it November Yet?

If a woman's life is in danger, most Americans don't oppose abortion.

Gee that is swell. Please give my best to the rest of Americans that would rather see a woman die than have an abortion or maybe her "Life" is being used as an excuse as well.

Maybe then we can work on sure that "Rape" and "Incest" might be reasons a woman could get an abortion as well.

McCain came of as ghoulish. Air quotes do not count as "nuance" any more than smirking and eye-rolling constitute a proper rebuttal.

Posted by blank_stare | October 16, 2008 10:23 AM

To "Here's How to Defeat Obama":

You may be happy with the state of the country right now but I sure am not. So your tag line and web site: "How to Defeat Obama" appeals to me about as much as "How to Burn Down Your Own House".

No doubt you were one of the ones who were gleefully rubbing their hands together back in 2000 at the sunset of the Clinton/Gore era. Thank God there aren't enough of you this election to keep America in the swamp for another 4 years.

Go Obama!

Posted by Why Would We Want the Alternative | October 16, 2008 11:34 AM

TO: Chris and Fred, RE Health of the Mother. I understand the Supreme Court case made it vague but the issues are so much deeper and more complex than just being glum. Depression is a very serious condition as are those who are suicidal and/or mentally ill or unstable. I think "health" has to be more than biochemical or physical. I "get" that it becomes a slippery slope and perhaps meaningless that way, but mental health issues are very serious and McCain seemes dismissive of that.

Posted by Matthew | October 16, 2008 12:41 PM

The sheer nonsense here is amazing. First you say, "Maybe McCain even won on points. Solid policy answers, tough policy attacks, solid command of the facts."

Then, you say, "His substance suffered; it didn't make sense at times."

So...McCain's substance sufference and he didn't make sense at times, but he might have won on points? Your blog is about all the things McCain did wrong (like not having self-control), then you still have the brain cell to say he beat Obama?

Are you sure you read your blog before posting? All I see are comma errors, typos and grammatical nonsense. Surely this must be the only reasonable explanation, especially when I read error-riddled hackery like this: "but all the sleight were those Obama allegedly inflicted on Obama: the town halls, campaign finance, negative ads, etc."

Then, you say that McCain's best answer was on climate change, where he didn't demagogue. But did you hear Bob Schieffer ask him about "Energy Climate Control", only to be corrected by McCain a few seconds later, "Climate CHANGE"?

Marc, how did you get this job? I could do this better (as I'm showing here)...

So, in review:
We saw an McXplosion. McCain cratered when talking about Ayers...his transitions were bad. He looked bad on TV. He gave a good answer on abortion, but so did Obama. McCain was good on education, but Obama was stronger.

Despite the fact that you list exactly zero places where McCain outshined Obama, your conclusion is that Maybe McCain won on points??????

Are you sure we're all using the same points system?

Posted by brizzle | October 16, 2008 3:25 PM

"He tried to make a point about Obama's character, but all the sleight were those Obama allegedly inflicted on Obama..."

Marc, did you mean to say, "all the slights were those Obama allegedly inflicted on McCain"?

Posted by JWC | October 16, 2008 4:42 PM

I want to point out something here that noone seems to have thought about in regards to Joe the plumber and his 250,000 plus per year business. The profit the business makes would be taxed as business income and is therefore not part of the tax plan being discussed. When Obama talks about the 250,000/year tax plan he is referring to PERSONAL income. They are taxed differently and it amazes me that others (Obama included) have not brought this point up. While I admit I would like to see the plan for business taxes, this part of the plan will not affect those small business owners McCain wants to play at being so worried about.
It is also true that while both candidates have worked out their individual plans they still have to get it through congress and what comes out of congress rarely if ever even closely resembles what was submitted.
Personally I think McCain came off overall as condescending and smug. I don't want to hear that he knows how to do things...I want to hear what he's gonna do. He does not seem to have any respect for the intelligence of voters, his chosen running mate being the prime example. It was clear at the time that he expected Hilary supporters to flock to him because he chose a woman.
As for his abortion answer he says he would not apply a litmus test, and would choose a nominee based on qualifications, but later states that he can't see someone who supports Roe V. Wade meeting those qualifications. Hmm...sounds a bit like a litmus test to me. I liked Obama's answer here. That this is a hard and personal choice for any woman and her family to make. I object to a government that wont protect my money, wont protect the air I breath and the water I drink, but insists on protecting my uterus. McCain talks about big government being bad, but in my book a government telling me what to do with my body is about as big as it gets. You want to decrease the number of abortions then increase access to birth control, prophylactics and education.

Posted by A person | October 16, 2008 5:13 PM