That one, as in, the second debate. What did you think I meant?
(BTW: McCain uses "that one" frequently in his stump speeches; the set-up is usually clearer, as McCain refers to Obama's being one of the senators who supported it, not McCain -- as in, if you had to guess who supported the Bush-Cheney '05 energy bill, it's that senator, not this senator. But it came off awkwardly on stage tonight.)
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» ANALYSIS: Looking Back On Last Night’s Presidential Debate from Comments from Left Field
» "That One" Wins The Debate from DebateTheRace08.com Comments (145)
Obama won big time. McCain seemed grouchy and uneven. 
It was a Grandslam by Barack Obama today. McCain was babbering incoherently when asked about Pakistan and Afganistan. McCain was also wandering aimlessly on the stage on some occassions. McCain's was the worst debate performance by any candidates so far.
This was the clearest win for the Democrats yet. Obama just had more effective arguments.
The most memorable parts of the evening were McCain calling Obama "that one" and the Tom Brokaw show. Not a good night to be a Republican, my friends. End game. Checkmate. This election is over, and the only interesting question is whether Obama will win states like Indiana, Missouri, and North Carolina.
McCain was nasty old man with the comment like "that one". CBS folks, CNN's Blitzer, ABC all noticed that.
McCain referred to Obama using 'that' earlier in the debate, too. I think it was: 'that's the most liberal voting record...' Both uses disgusted me...I think they are clear indications of McCain's seething derision for Obama and attempts to demean him.
McCain just can't get me to believe that he has a plan. I try to listen, and he loses me. Obama speaks to what I want to hear. For me, this one wasn't even close.
Cool customer versus tired, confused old angry man. McCain ended on a good note, but Obama won, hands down.
Tiller is the new festoon.
FOO Did McCain really refuse to shake "That One's" hand?
Finally, a commanding debate win by Obama.
This was not a debate. It was a guided talking points tour. Complete snoozefest. McCain came off as the angry man. Obama seemed presidential.
Obama takes it, but he misses several great opportunities to tie McCain into economic crisis by referencing the Keating documentary. McCain needs to get a grip and not slip up and say things like "That one." Nobody would have said a word if it was Biden he was referring to, but that's not the world we live in, and he needs to get with the program. Also, does anyone have a problem with a man who can barely use a computer trying to articulate what is happening in world markets? How could he possibly grasp global economy in this day and age?
Obama was amazing. He looked presidential and answered every question in a easy to understand manner.
Best answers: Obama on service to this country. McCain says we need to sacrifice earmarks. Obama nails the Bush administration on the "go shopping" request, and says we all need to rethink how we use energy. Spectacular call to service. Bomb bomb bomb Iran moment. How is it not common sense that we need to go into Pakistan if we have Osama in our sights? What, we need a secret plan? Spectacular first hour for Obama. Got windy in the last half hour.
McCain was awful, and this night put him in a deep hole on the health care issue. Obama just seems to enjoy this. For McCain, it's a struggle. It's not even close.
The campaign that began many moons ago with Oprah's "The One" ends many months later with McCain's "That One".
Hands down Obama won. This was supposed to be McCain's happy place, and he turned it into a grumpy place.
I think it was a wash on substance, but Obama appeared far more presidential than McCain. My gut feeling is that this race is over IF the American people don't buy into the character assassination. That's BO's last obstacle
I'm an Obama supporter and I thought he was much better on the economy portion. But I thought he was muddled and wandering on the national security stuff. I feel like I have a much stronger sense of where McCain stands on these issues, and his principles. I get the sense that Obama is still figuring out exactly what he thinks about these issues. Overall, I thought McCain did better but not enough to change the momentum of the campaign. But multiple, multiple style demerits for McCain. The anger, the weird jokes, the wandering around.....
McCain broke the debate rule by shaking hands with the questionaire. He simply does not understand the rules.
Dumb format, and Brokaw should've indulged Obama's multiple attempts to shake it up. McCain came off as weirdly detached. Obama's planetarium in Chicago is why the markets are tanking? Planetary education sucks, my friends. Only fiery point was Obama engaging McCain on "the Beach Boys card." Overall, I'd have to say that we saw President Obama tonight. McCain's out of touch, and more importantly, out of time.
I grew up in Karachi. Pakistani's definitely notice the fact that Obama is the first western politician ever to pronounce Pakistan almost correctly. The only slight error is the t-sound at the end. Instead of a t for tanya sound, the t is supposed to be thicker if that makes any sense. like t for tandoori, but I think americans pronounce that differently as well. Not to worry.
It's in the bag baby
the moment of the debate: when Obama insisted on his right to respond to McCain's "speak softly and carry a big stick" attack, hitting McCain with a devastating counter: bomb-bomb-Iran, etc.. McCain's counter-response was shaky and barely coherent. Overall, McCain was much more likable than he was last debate, but still had far too many shaky moments and anachronistic ticks. I fail to see how tonight helps him. p.s.: Obama needs to be careful about the occasional flash of arrogance in his looks at McCain. It's clear he's not a great fan of McCain, but showing so won't help him.
Boring. Not much new presented. Blame the format - horrible format. Candidates need more, not less time to give us new information. Obama wasn't great, but he didn't falter. McCain was just awkward - he still seems unaware of what the public cares about and focuses far too much on 'honor in Iraq'. I just can't get past the feeling that McCain doesn't really care what happens in Iraq, so long as we come out of it looking good.
In CBS poll Obama wins the debate by 36 to 25.
Obama killed. Calm, reassuring, presidential. The whole exchange where McCain interrupts Obama then Obama hits him with the "Bomb Bomb Iran" line. McCain's face dropped and his posture dropped. Really powerful.
Obama cruised to victory on this one. This one wasn't even close. Obama was better on giving specifics, step-by-step answers, tying the answers from different questions together to show the big picture and he was miles better on the physical issues. Frankly though, I'm not as surprised as others might be that Obama was comfortable in this particular setting. He was a law lecturer for 12 years and this pretty much resembled a law school classroom. This debate pretty much put the nail into McCain's coffin.
Maybe subtle sarcasm isn't an effective tack when your audience is forbidden from laughing, my friend. We had a really subtle joke about obama "finally" coming to a "town hall" at the beginning--anyone that would chuckle at that bitter joke wouldn't be an "uncommitted voter." And... Seriously. If you're question is phrased as an AIPAC talking point (for better or worse) maybe it's a bit charitable to call you "uncommitted."
A bit boring, yet tense at times. I commented earlier that I thought McCain looked angry. His attacks on Obama looked petty. On the upside, McCain was good again on spending, but I've heard this before. It would be nice to hear something new from him. Obama was a bit boring, but I think he connected better with the audience in general. Speaking of generalities, it would be nice to hear more specifics from him. Do looks matter? McCain looked old (sorry); stodgy. Obama looked great tonight, very handsome, friendly.
A side note... is it just me, or are the members of the CNN undecided voters focus group a bunch of morons?
Ban Johnson:
mccain connected right away and never let go. obama was consistent throughout. He never let the question get in the way of his answer. And what's with obama saying 'let me answer that tom.' obama knew he was getting crushed and decided to go all in. Damn The Rulz! That’s for old people. Well anyway I can’t wait to see how the media spins that disaster for obama.
McCain needs not to quit his day job -- his jokes were not working at all. I agree with most of the commenters, bad format, Obama looked "Presidential", McCain should not want to move around a stage with Obama. It just definitely made him look older. The "that one" comment wasn't a big deal other than it was grumpy and old manish.
My conservative friend is disgusted at McCain's performance. He wants McCain to drop out and replaced by Romney. He thinks that even Palin did better than McCain. He is so disgusted at McCain that he wants him to loose so that republicans can put up a better candidate in 2012.
The real loser was me, for watching it. I quit this election. This really is the best we can do. How depressing is that?
About 10 minutes into the debate McCain started looking uncomfortable, as though he needed to make another one of his frequent trips to the bathroom. Then he started scowling and making weird hand gestures at the audience as Obama was speaking. About halfway through I think he soiled himself. When he repeated his hilarious claim that he "knows how to get bin Laden" and his even more hilarious bullshit about having "suspended his campaign" I figured even he knows it's all over. His is a future filled with metamucil and weekly doctor visits, and he'll never be president.
McCain continued with his attacks based on misinformation. Obama did well in clarifying several of those false comments in a tightly structured format. McCain needed a big punch to claim a debate victory which he did not achieve.
drdannyu, YES! They are! But, don't you think after, what, a year and a half of campaigning, ANYONE that's undecided isn't likely to be the sharpest tool in the shed? Or just unable to make any decision whatsoever. Or an attention whore who just wants to be on TV as an "undecided voter."
Joe Klein's conscience:
it is interesting to me that Obama does not hesitate to give McCain credit when credit is due or to say that he agrees with McCain. Yet when McCain agrees with Obama, he NEVER says so in so many words and he never gives Obama credit. That seems to be a sign of lack of confidence. I think McCain seemed nasty and disrespectful with Overall it was not an exciting event. Tie goes to leader (Obama). I think Obama nailed it with prioritizing Manhattan Prokect style energy plan FIRST as it covers all areas of concern (security, economy etc.) Obama correctly pronouncing name of Pakistan also gets noticed around the world. But over all this format was just a way for candidates to reiterate their sound bites...
They gave the same answers to the same questions as in the first debate, with the exception of McCain's mortgage proposal. That could have been a big moment, but he bizarrely downplayed it. Obama was measured and presidential, but he meandered too much. McCain was direct and less aloof than Obama, but he failed to change a losing formula and his obvious contempt for his (popular!) opponent won't help him one bit. The "debate" (hard to really call it that in the absence of any real back-and-forth) was a draw, but ties go to Obama at this point.
A few things: McCain sounded out-of-breath the whole time. The mic picked up his gasps every 4 words. It made him seem old. McCain was writing everything down as if he was afraid he was going to forget something. It made him look like he's senile and losing his memory. Obama was very clear in his answers and did a great job in presenting stuff in a way that regular voters could relate to. For all the talk of Obama being professorial, it was usually McCain rambling on about stuff that nobody could understand. His answers bordered on incoherence at times. I think Obama kicked McCain's butt. It was a substantive debate...which made it boring for junkies, but made it so McCain got his clock cleaned because the issues are against him.
So, who is McCain's hero, Ronald Reagan of Teddy Roosevelt? Personally, I was hoping he'd say his hero was Hiro from "Heroes."
Quick comment: Are we overblowing the phrase "that one" a little bit. I'm an Obama supporter, but it didn't see like that big of a deal. Am I missing it?
McCain said that Obama never once go against his party - my question is who the fuck is the president. Why would Obama oppose his party when the decision make is a Republican and he is a Democrat.
That one is the red herring. Health care is a right will resonate.
My friends, There is no need to debate who won the debate. Simply look at the prediction markets: Intrade's President Obama contract has gone up 2.4 since the end of the debate. President McCain contract has gone down 3.2 (ouch!). And the contract on Obama's Intrade value increasing more than McCain's after the debate is trading at around 75. So, the clear winner: Obama
Re: the BTW... We've just had eight years of someone who can't competently communicate. Awkward with the English language--and both McCain and Palin are--is a strike against him, intended or not. (Still, I'm with Freud: there are no mistakes.)
Is McCain's use of "that one" suppose to tie in with his earlier ads of "the one"? Hope so, because he will be.
Obama won the debate when he declared health care a right. McCain did alright but he lost points by calling Obama "that one." McCain is the one that's supposed to have a "game changer" and he didn't create the opportunity for a game changer and that ultimately hurts him.
OBAMA 08 McCain looked old and out of touch. He turned to Obama and said "that one"..He left early and would not shake hands.. he needs to hang it up
McCain can't hide his desperation and anger. He's trying to marginalize Obama by saying "That One." However, McCain's tactics aren't working--his commentary is arrogant, stale and lacking in specifics. Obama comes off as more presidential and solution-oriented.
Did Obama learn something from Palin? Tom Brokaw, bless his heart, has a raging ego, and Obama looked (while professorial) presidential when he "Palinized" Brokaw and decided to say his piece. Normally, he's a little too solicitous of moderators and comes off a tad desperate to be liked.
i'm biased in favor of obama, but i think the whole thing was a sloppy non-event: mccain had more clearly articulated arguments than before, though he could not defend the counter attacks. obama remained the cool customer, but took the low-road bait more than he should have. brokaw? charlie gibson and him are presently debating who among them loves america more. sigh...
With all due respect... the Issues are the more important aspect of this debate. But McCain's "that one" comment was indicative of McCain's lack of respect. I found it offensive and evidence of McCain's mean ness. Temperment is important. Meanness is not a positive in my book.
"That one" was clearly an attempt by McCain to dehumanize his opponent. Its the oldest trick in the book by a combat soldier - dehumanize or animalize you opponent so you can feel better about yourself when you are slaughtering them wholesale. Not good though when a old white man is calling a young black man by the inanimate pronoun. The only thing worse could be if he called him "boy".
After allowing a supporter to shout that Obama was a "terrorist!" yesterday, I don't know what to make of McCain's anger anymore. I do think "That one!" (at least over the radio) sounded really weird and caught my attention immediately as I struggled in LA traffic. I guess McCain just can't control his temper for 90 minutes.
Ouch. McCain just shot himself in the head.
Agree with you on the format. Boring. Terrible. These debates have been real snoozers.
I liked the format. Obama clearly beat McCain. McCain should fire his everyone in his campain and get rid of Sarah. The campain and Sarah have killed him. Her associations and newnest and his years in the Senate killed his chances. I like McCain but I'm voting Obama. What the hell is CNN talking about Borg Gergen with "he's winning but he's black" BS. It seems to me he's feeding the bullcrap. There is no person of color to refute this garbage. Hello, dummy some people vote beyond "white working class whites", and vote on the frickn' issues you dope.
I am aghast that a presidential candidate, a person seeking the highest office in the land, would use such vulgar language when referring to his opponent on national television. I think this is a true testimonial to the content of John McCain's character. He is not fit to hold this office. His wandering around while Obama was speaking, his feable attempts at jokes, and his overall demeaner was clearly erratic and very telling.
Some people think that McCain's use of the phrase "That one" to refer to Senator Obama was no big thing. WRONG!!! It showed Senator McCain's contempt for Obama and of him being dismissive of Obama. It was very disrespectful. As soon as he said it I was stunned.
Stop making excuses for McCain. You know that it came off more sneeringly than a simple reference to Obama as a Senator.
Hated the format. Yeah the 'that one' line and not shaking hands at the end made McCain look bad. McCain also looked old moving around, Obama - as usual - looked cool and under control. Deep trouble for the McCain ticket at this point, can they get nastier? http://palincounter.blogspot.com/
I'm honestly going back and forth on "that one." My girlfriend says she hears her grandmother doing the sudden third-person thing all the time, and like someone else said upthread, it wouldn't have been noticed much at all if it had been Biden. But what I keep coming back to is that it's not, in the same sentence, "this one" as "me" and "that one" as "him." It's "me" and "that one." Pointing. That's what leaves me unable to pack it aside so easily as others do.
I think it was unwise of McCain to close with a quote about the "steady hand on the tiller" that he would provide as commander-in-chief. Any confidece this might inspire is shattered by thinking about McCain's age, his repeated bouts with melanoma, and most worryingly, his bumbling hick of a running mate. In addition, Obama's graceful and energetic movements around the stage drew a stark contrast with the aimless wandering and hobbling of his geriatric opponent.
It didn't bother me that much, even though it was a bit condescending. It flowed well when it was said in the debate, and McCain came off as confident and cocksure more than sneering. In any case, this doesn't matter in the long run, so let's move on to the stuff that actually does. -e
Not a Martin Buber moment. I it, not I thou. Total objectification. Right wing blogs are apoplectic about the mortgage deal. Wonder what Palin will say about that--if you could understand it. "That one" will be the other recalled moment of this debate. A very bad night for McCain, alienating his base and everyone else.
I agree with the poster above who thought it was the lack of parallel construction that was telling about the "that one." "Who voted for it? That one. Who voted against it? Me." I don't think it was a racist comment, in that I don't see him pulling that on a black person he respects (say Powell). But it was clearly dismissive and disrespectful and below the level of discourse we are accustomed to seeing. Frankly, it was in poor taste. The American people do not share McCain's contempt for Obama, and playing to it over and over doesn't make Obama look bad - we know him well by now - but it does diminish McCain.
I'm voting for ........ "That One", the best one. Sorry McCain, you lost a vote. country first?????????
After a weekend where Sarah Palin made the Secret Service's job of protecting Senator Obama much much harder, John McCain's use of 'that one' will fill in to too many listeners as 'that n-word.' There was another moment when McCain suddenly appeared behind Obama and made an oddly dismissive waving motion with his left hand. You can see on camera. More disrespectful than creepy. McCain lost. His mortgage plan is gonna create a very big question. What is the grace period for covering those mortgages? This month? This year? A few years back? Eight years back? How is his plan going to be fair at all? The answer is that it wouldn't be, so it comes off as a cheap pander that he just decided to throw out there for votes like his gas tax. People around here are much more comfortable with the idea of Obama in the White House. Less so with McCain.
Neither candidate is at all funny. Obama knows this and plays the straight man. McCain thinks he's a crack up and makes a lot of awkward unfunny comments that fall like little lead balloons around the room, making everyone feel like they're stuck in an awkward conversation with a creepy old relative who is using his old jokes about flappers and crank engine cars. Its terrible and it makes me feel sorry for him. I'm sure he's spent the last century surrounded by yes men who laugh at his awful jokes, but he's selling to us now and nobody is buying it.
"That one" was meant to convey disrespect and the deep disdain he feels for Senator Obama. McCain clearly does not consider Obama worthy of challenging him, but he will be emphatically schooled on Nov 4th.
I am not really that upset about him saying "that one" but I do think its disingenuous to say that its something McCain says all the time on the stump. If he does say it all the time who in the hizell is he referring to when he says "that one" when he is campaigning on the stump without an opponent??? Sarah Palin??? Im not buying that explanation but again I didnt think it was that big a deal anyway. And I am an Obama supporter
foo As someone that has been referred to as "that one," to my face, with the assumption that I did not speak English, I find the term de-humanizing. It ignores any sense of consciousness and personality on the part of the person called "that one." As has been mentioned it also signifies a lack of respect, in the refusal to call a fellow US Senator by title or name. Racist or not, it is the sign of someone with low character.
My initial reax was the opposite of most people's - I thought McCain won it handily. He seemed more responsive to the questioners and interacted with them more, while Obama took most questions as opportunities to recap his policies on taxes, health care, and Iraq/Afghanistan. Not necessarily a bad strategy given the viewership of the debates and the fact that attack ads may have created misconceptions, but I'd still prefer he had really answered the questions. Particularly the one on Social Security - neither of them actually said what they'd DO there. McCain seemed a bit more like his old self back when Democrats and the media liked him and he acted like a decent guy. He didn't seem as mad as Obama as in the first debate. Maybe it's because I'm going into this taking for granted that Obama is a decent, moderate, non-terrorist, non-socialist, non-radical fellow, and if undecided voter's aren't than Obama simply coming across as an okay guy would win him the debate on its own.
McCain was noting the ironic vote on a Bush Cheney sponsored bill. He (rhetorically) asked the audience to guess which one of the 2 candidates standing there at town hall voted FOR the bill? The answer - “that one” (i.e. meaning that candidate, the democrat) and the one who voted AGAINST the bill — “this one” (i.e. this candidate, the republican.) The vote is in fact ironic (and telling) and it was not disrespectful as stated.
The cameras cut away and cut McCain saying he didn't vote for it using that one as a comparison of which one voted for it.
This is sad to watch the media take McCain out of context and smear him.
I am done watching this election I can't take a good man like McCain being smeared. This election is painful to watch. --- You can't be surprised at the context given McCain's actions over the past month.
I think "That one" is a moment that might come to stand in debate history alongside Gore’s sighs, Bush senior’s peek at his watch and Nixon’s five o’clock shadow. It neatly captured the superciliousness that marks out McCain's lack of regard for his opponent. And given that Obama is -- as even Charles Krauthammer has noted -- a very strong opponent, that attitude is self-damaging. I'm also glad others found McCain on the verge of incoherency (e.g. Sim @ 10.48pm). At times he was, especially when discussing economic issues. How can someone spend so much time on Capitol Hill to such little effect?
"That one" was McCain's not quite subtle attempt to dehumanize Obama and emphasize his "otherness". McCain then referred to himself with the personal pronoun "me", claiming his status as a person of worth. Disgusting!!
I'm an Obama supporter and loathe the way McCain has been campaigning for the last few days, and I thought the "that one" comment was meaningless. "This one" - me, McCain - voted against a pork laden bill; "that one", Senator Obama, voted for it. That was all he was saying. I think people are over-reading things here. This is about as relevant as Joe Biden referring to himself in third person in the VP debate - a little odd, but unimportant.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed McCain refusing to shake Obama's hand after the debate was over. A couple of times, I believe McCain got so caught up in trying to attack Obama that he contradicted statements he'd made just moments earlier. Not a picture of a man you'd want in office...
To my thinking one of the most important comments made by Senator Obama in this evening's debate was that we as a country need to stop "reacting" to the situatons that affect us both in domestic and foreign affairs and start acting before these various sitauations arise..take control and then attempt to address them. In most cases in our recent history when we react, the result is poor decision making and poor strategies and as a result, our entire government, economy and now the world is in turmoil.
McCain's "that one" statement reveals everything to me about his hateful out of touch attitude.
"That one" really bothered me, and I don't mean it in the general way that almost every word that comes out of McCain's mouth bothers me. Sure, McCain is running a dishonest, dishonorable, distasteful campaign...but "that one" bothered me more than just about anything else McCain has said. It's one thing for McCain to refuse to look at Obama. It's another to deny his basic humanity. That's how "that one" felt. And given the context of the last few days of campaigning, it struck me as a racial attack, a little worse than "boy" would have been. I was hoping, really hoping, that McCain would follow it up with "this one" when he referred to himself. Had he done that, I'd have felt "all is well". In that moment, waiting for McCain to complete his sentence, I was hoping "oh please don't let him be doing what I think he's doing". But no such luck. McCain sunk even lower in my estimation.
Jeff writes: "McCain has a black daughter. McCain is being smeared here." McCain doesn't have a black daughter. You're a very strange dude.
I don't think Obama is confused on where he stands on national security, I think that he has to stay within certain guidelines to not give McCain material to overplay and exaggerate. Look at what he's done with the whole attacking pakistan and sitting down with the enemy statements. Turned them into some kind of bad thing. By far Obama won, but I'm willing to bet all the GOP supporters are claiming McCain won. So really, what's the point? If you're STILL undecided, you're either retarded or racist. There's not much to decide about if you're neither of those 2.
McCain lost three key voting blocs when he said he wanted to "put medical records on the internet." 1) Seniors--while typically these are the people annoyed by doctors' inefficiency, also these are the people who shred literally every shard of paper at home.
Until tonight, I never understood why McCain voted against a holiday for Martin Luther King. Imagine that.
Obama does need to clarify his stand points on Foreign Policy... However is there anything wrong with just being at peace with other countries? I believe that Obama spends more time thinking about details and consewuences on Foreign Policy tha his opponent John McCain does. THAT IS A GOOD THING! Why did we go to Iraq? What are we doing there now. Weapons of Mass Destruction? Where are they?
I'm an Obama supporter and McCain actually impressed me for much of this debate and the last one. He has some major style problems that you have to look past (and I'm under no illusions that anyone will), but I think the substance of his work in both debates has been strong. He seems like someone who knows what he's talking about. Contrast that to the man the GOP ran the last two times. His problem is threefold - one, his platform is empirically lousy, two, he's really not cut out to be President, and three, this is simply not his moment. McCain's rhetoric is not merely theoretical - it has been tested repeatedly over the last eight years, and the result has been near-universal failure. He is running from a historically awful record. He (and lately Palin) wants to argue that it's really only Bush's record, but anyone who looks at his platform can see that the "More of the Same" slogan is absolutely accurate. His platform is the original sin of his campaign, and it's way too late to fix it. Moreover, I don't even think McCain himself believes in it. Much of the tension he exhibits during these debates seems to come from the fact that he can't really say what he thinks. For example, I think he sees only military solutions to our most serious foreign policy problems, and furthermore would be willing to fight to the last man against our enemies. Of course we all want to win our wars, but the reality is almost none of us wants to die in the process. McCain doesn't worry about that as much as the rest of us. I don't mean that flippantly. Remember this is someone who fought in a war in which 150,000 American soldiers died, and whose father fought in a war in which nearly half a million Americans died. He probably sees our current level of casualties as exceedingly minor. In terms of American military history, they are. But no one could ever say anything like that and still get elected President. That, for me, was the screaming subtext of his answer tonight regarding sacrifice. Domestically, I think he would like to gut Social Security and Medicare and replace them with something much smaller and cheaper - if at all. This was, for me, the subtext of his comments regarding spending. But that is not a popular position, and it is absolutely verboten so long as Florida is a swing state. So when McCain finds himself in a situation where he has to explain and defend his platform, he is constantly oscillating between defending already-failed theories and lying about what he really thinks. Add the fact that he is 72, and looks even older, and you have someone who just isn't going to be great at running for this particular job at this particular moment. Obama, by contrast, not only knows what he's talking about, but means it, and most importantly can talk about his plans as though they have never been tried, not only because in some cases they haven't, but also because America has no memory. Interestingly, I think tonight was illustrative of how Obama has become a much more conventional politician over the course of this campaign. He distinguised himself during the early primaries by saying that he was one of the only candidates who was willing to tell folks things that they didn't want to hear. McCain did that tonight when he talked about spending, even hinting at the need to cut Medicare. But at this point Obama sounds like a typical Democrat pretty much all the time. He is extremely gifted at making typical Democrat rhetoric sound somehow different and inspiring, and I happen to think electing him at this moment is essential to changing the direction of the country. But melanin aside, he's starting to seem less than revolutionary. Because of McCain's unique weaknesses, he doesn't need to be. In the end I think these debates reveal the techtonic quality of this election. It's not only that the Democrats have a stronger messenger, it's simply their time.
Stylistically, Obama wiped the floor with McCain. No doubt about it. McCain came across as grumpy, disdainful, and a little creepy. He awkwardly shuffled around the room and made hand gestures in the background when Obama was speaking. He breathed really heavily into the mic. His jokes and self-deprecating sense of humor fell flat. So how does "That One" moment fit in with all that? I thought that style of attack didn't fit in with the tone of the debate. It won't cost McCain any votes and everyone will probably forget about it in a week, but that moment did contribute to Obama's victory in the likability contest.
- http://www.cafepress.com/obama_that_one - John McCain is upset because Obama is "the one" who is going to win! "That One" is going to be our next President, so show a little respect, John!
McCain not only doesn't have a plan, he doesn't have a clue. In that, he is a perfect microcosm of the current Republican "conservative" movement. Clueless. Without any principles worthy of the name. Unwilling to accept responsibility. Looking for someone, anyone, to scapegoat for their own mistakes. Utterly unpredicatable, and completely uninterested in the well being of the nation, or of future generations.
well...what would the reaction be if Biden had referred to Palin as 'that one'?
The only thing at this point I think that keeps the Reps in the game is the incredible capacity for complacency to set in among Dem voters who think it's in the bag, then subsequently don't bother to go vote and feel stupid later.
"That one" is already part of a HuffPost headline, the clip featuring that remark is posted multiple times on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%22that%20one%22%20barack%20mccain&uploaded=d), and several cafepress shops have been made featuring the phrase (http://www.cafepress.com/yesthatone). And it all could have been avoided had Senator McCain instead said "Senator Obama."
I think Letterman hit the nail on the head when he described McCain resembling a grumpy old man who yells "Get off the lawn!" to kids. Sure looked and acted like that tonite. I'm voting for "That One."
Marc, I know what you're trying to say about McCain's "that one" not being that out-of-the-ordinary for him. The problem is, it proves yet again that, as a presidential candidate, McCain isn't ready for primetime. He doesn't "get" how to be a president in almost the same way Nixon didn't "get" it in 1960. Compare Nixon's run in '60 with his run in '68; they're two different people. There's a good reason (besides Richard J. Daley) why Kennedy won in '60.
"That one." That's a term and a style that folks of my grandmother's generation use. It's not bad on its face, it just further adds to the "John McCain, grumpy old man" line and he didn't need that. Especially on a night where the visuals were nearly as striking as Kennedy/Nixon.
Its not the words, its the tone and expression that went with them. A little known rule of communications says that we get half our information from the words of the other person ... the rest comes from intonation, body language, facial expression etc. So its WAY he said "That One", if he had said "Senator Obama" it would only have softened it slightly.
This debate was terribly boring and something that merely cemented the status quo. Since Obama is up by several now nationally and in battlegrounds, that must mean he’s the tactical winner. http://www.political-buzz.com/
I have a hard time getting past the seething mess McCain has become. I can't take him seriously. It is polite to say he has always been mercurial, now it looks like cynical flopping. The strong bond between McCain and Palin is ambition without talent or honor.
The "that one" moment was so noticeable partially because the rest of the debate was, IMO, a total bore. But when McCain said "that one!" and wouldn't even LOOK at Obama, my whole family sat up and went "Did that just happen?" And my family is white, Southern and middle class - my mother is Hillary Clinton's age. You know, here's McCain's problem. A lot of white people might privately hold some subconscious racist fears, BUT they also get very uncomfortable when they see a white man openly demean a black man like that. They might not easily identify with a black person, but they get queasy when THEIR racial self-identity is presented as inherently hostile to minorities. I think McCain is treading a very fine line (not merely with his "that one" remark, but the Ayers/Wright attacks he's put into Sarah Palin's mouth). Plus, a lot of people already *like* Obama. As Bill Maher put it, "America has a black friend." It's incredibly un-PC, but I think there's a kernel of truth. Even a white person who isn't the most racially enlightened will get upset if you pick on THEIR "black friend."
A little weird but harmless and should not be turned into a racial thing. Please.
Why can't most thinking people with one eye and half a brain see both candidates for exactly what they are? What a waste of time with all the nit-picking. I'll take a man who's a little rough around the edges - but with proven leadership qualities, over a pretty face out of which flows much smooth talk -- any day.
You can tell that everyone here is an Obama supporter. The man is all style and no substance. Please can someone tell me when was the last time that Obama has ever voted against his party or against his party line. I for one am scared of the fact that they may become the most liberal President and Vice-president along with the most liberal House and Senate. Obama will become nothing more than a puppet for Nancy and Harry and George Soros. If they were actually Democrats, I wouldn't be worried so much, but the Democratic Party has been taken over (hijacked) by the liberal elite. Obama is just a front man with a radical ideological view for the liberals to get behind and they will drag every true Democrat into the muck and mire with them. Sing your hosannahs to "The One" and remember that you voted for this man come this time next year. I may not be voting for McCain, but I sure as hell won't vote for Obama either. Maybe if Biden was the top of the ticket I could get behind it. When we become a socialised nation, say goodbye to your money and your freedom.
As with the first two: No disasters, so if you're partisan you can say your guy or gal won. Listening I miss the body language (evidently another refused handshake at the end), but McCain by the end was sounding slow and a bit off. Then he would hit his stride--the surge!--and usually finish his point fairly strong. I think the "steady hand on the tiller" meme is doomed against "erratic," because McCain's behavior in recent weeks has not reminded anyone of a steady hand and head. Finally, will need to see how the undecideds felt, but once again Obama sounded presidential and did nothing to screw up, so he remains in the lead.
I understand M J has a right to express his/her opinions as wished, but it smacks of complete hackery (in my opinion) to simply toe the line with tried-and-true phrases like "all style and no substance." Look, people are welcome to debate the merits of Obama's proposals versus the merits of McCain's (certainly some of Obama's proposals are downright ludicrous, such as this continued assertion that he can somehow pay down the national debt whilst cutting taxes for 95% of Americans). But this ridiculous GOP baloney about Obama being all style is refuted if one does nothing less than pay attention. It is Obama, not McCain, who more often than not gives specifics. It is Obama, not McCain, who explains the real-world applications of his ideas. And it is McCain, not Obama, who speaks in entirely banality and rhetoric. So I ask you, M J, and everyone else who believes Obama is "all style and no substance:" Why aren't you listening?
MJ, I have a challenge for you. Please identify the Dem position that Obama should have opposed but didn't. The way you pose the question, it is as if there are brownie points for simply voting against your party, regardless as to what you are voting on. That means "voting against your party" is just an empty talking point. Besides . . . with the f-ed up positions the GOP has taken the past few years, McCain would have more to apologize for if he had gone along with the program. Hmm . . . this is the guy who said he wanted to run an "honorable campaign" but then runs Paris Hilton and "Illinois PTA condom usage classes for for preschoolers" ads. So maybe all his "voting against your party" behavior was just a way for him to separate himself from the nuttiest of con ideas, as opposed to an actual principled stand . . . because he has shown he has no real principals of decency and honesty. And "liberal elite" is a bad thing, huh? Is that why your side chose Palin, a woman I would not hire to be my office manager, nonetheless Vice President of the US? Give me a bunch of Michigan, UCLA, Harvard and Yale graduates any day over a woman who could not graduate on time from a second rate public school. Junior college? Junior friggin college? G.v.a.f.b.!
I thought McCain was a bit off at first. He went off on tangents too much and didn't connect well. However, unlike some, I felt he got better as it went on. I felt Obama sounded a bit weaker on foreign policy than he did last time. However Obama probably won because Obama is already ahead so anything he says or does will be seen more positively. Also McCain's economics isn't populist or different enough from Bush. Lastly McCain is an old white guy and many here are certainly clear that old white guya are inherently racist evil bastards. Short of giving all his money to the United Negro College Fund there's likely nothing he can do there. (And I think that would at best be seen as "He's a guilty racist evil bastard") Anyway McCain's adopted daughter is South Asian. She is "black" in so much as South Asians have a fairly dark skintone. My Aunt has an adopted Sri Lankan daughter.
Well, MJ, Obama has--in fairness--said that he would be in support of war at times. He's also spoken of a personal right to own and use a gun. He's against homosexual couples being *called* "married" by the Federal Government. And he has acknowledged, refreshingly, how disturbing abortions can be. But you know what? At this point, I *don't* want someone who has voted against the Democratic party line, because it's been how many years since the Democrats' "party line" has been allowed to succeed? Hm...can't think off hand. In any case, it *does* mean something to me that McCain has challenged his own party in the past--because that party has done so disastrously by America. And for that very reason it's also more disturbing that McCain's reneged on a lot of that "maverick" behavior by now, leaving him with the label but not much else to show for it. Tax cuts for the wealthy bad? Now they're good. Torture bad? Now it's okay if the CIA does it. Experience? Here comes Palin. And on and on. It's ridiculous to claim that Obama's not challenging the Democratic Party should disturb anyone as much as McCain's not challenging the Republican Party in this election. So far as I've been able to tell, the whole election is a chance to usher the Democrats *in*--giving them not just squeaky-wheel status but actual leverage in all three branches of government--and ushering the Republicans (the G.O.P. famed for "small" government, deregulation, irresponsible wars, torture, environmental degradation, and coddling of the wealthy) *out*. --Martin (of "commanding win" earlier, not the other Martin in this thread)
Amen, Martin! Now to invoke Godwin's Law, it is less admirable for a Nazi to "oppose his party" than one of the Allied soldiers . . . because one was on the side of recognizable evil and the other wasn't.
My thought is that the format was terrible and Tom Brokaw made it even worse by hectoring the candidates. There is a saying in sports that if you notice the referee he's not doing his job well. Brokaw was very noticeable. In the future I hope all debates will use the format used in the first debate that allows for as much candidate give-and-take as they want to engage in. Trying to impose artificial time limits on candidates and prevent follow ups and candidate interaction is a disservice to the country. I didn't see anything even close to a game changer for McCain and since he's down 8 or so points in the polls then Obama won the debate.
"Lastly McCain is an old white guy and many here are certainly clear that old white guya are inherently racist evil bastards. Short of giving all his money to the United Negro College Fund there's likely nothing he can do there. (And I think that would at best be seen as "He's a guilty racist evil bastard")" Well, that and McCain voted against Martin Luther King Day, and supported the governor of Arizona who tried to rescind the holiday in that state. And McCain's also on record as saying "I've always hated the gooks and I always will" (somewhat understandable given his Vietnam experiences, but still racist). So no, "old white guy" is not inevitably linked to being racist. But for John McCain...
Imagine if his name was Barry O’Brien. When you look at his record you discover that he spent 20 years in a white supremacist church and was attracted to neo-Nazi authors and methods. Along the way, he started his political career in the home of an unrepentant abortion clinic bomber and even sat with this terrorist on the board of a right-wing foundation that wasted millions of tax-payer dollars in the promotion of Nazi ideas. Would we even be having a conversation about his qualifications to be President of the United States? Now, for Barack Obama, simply insert the words “black supremacist,” “Marxist,” “the US Capitol building and American military targets,” and “left-wing” in the above narrative. He is simply too inexperienced, too unaccomplished and too dangerous to take the risk. Please, wake up America, or you will pay dearly for your thirst for “change.”
Wow. I wonder what debate most of the people commenting were watching. Did you see McCain tag Obama as the anti-Teddy Roosevelt? Doesn't talking big and doing nothing sound just like Obama and NOT what America needs at this time? How about the repeated calls to compare records, which McCain has and Obama has not (other than a long history of consorting with domestic terrorists and other far-far-left loonies)?
"It's ridiculous to claim that Obama's not challenging the Democratic Party should disturb anyone as much as McCain's not challenging the Republican Party in this election." No, it's not. Some feel 2001-2006 was so problematic because you had a President and Congress too much in sync so they became arrogant, shiftless, and pushed this country too far. (This is mostly Republicans and Independents I admit.) An unpopular Democratic Congress and a thoroughly in-sync Democratic Senator is the same dynamic only in reverse. If Obama was a more unconventional or independent Democrat it might be different, but he's not exactly Jim Webb or Ken Salazar for that matter. So basically we lurch again to one party being seen as right for everything and the Congress mostly getting whatever it wants.
Foo? Phooey - What a lot of people on here seem to forget when referring to McCain's "shuffling around" and "Can't use a computer" is that - despite MSM's taking the side of the Vietnamese torturers - this man was tortured for years, had bones broken, etc. by our ENEMY!!! Who here would expect Obama to take one for the team? Anyone? Anyone? Didn't think so.
Obama is more telegenic and physically graceful than McCain. That was even more evident in the town hall format. (If Obama had agreed to McCain's proposal for a series of these, he might have put this election in the bag months ago.) Obama's optical advantage more than offsets his "intellectuality." Those of us old enough to remember the JFK-Nixon debate are seeing much the same contrast of energy levels, cool vs. hot and grace vs. blunt force in these encounters.
Please let's not get into the JFK comparisons. If we're basing this election solely on image, we're in trouble. Plus, for all of his charisma, JFK turned out to be a mediocre president at best. We need better.
Meh. I don't think "that one" is a big deal. In the context of the debate, it didn't strike me as offensive. There are better things for Obama and his supporters to focus on.
If someone named "Barry O'Brien" were being falsely branded a terrorist because of a vague acquaintance he had with a guy who WAS NOT EVEN CONVICTED of terrorism and is currently employed as a professor at a mainstream university, I'd call it a return to McCarthyism. I mean hey - I'm Irish Catholic with a ton of relatives up in the Northeast. I've probably got less than six degrees of separation from someone who may have done unsavory things. I guess I should just be blacklisted from any public office ever.
It is silly and wrong when McCain reaches for his rhetorical point that Obama never has challenged the leaders in his party- He ran for president against the leaders in his party! Is that challenge enough?
There's a big difference between using a belittling appellation like "that one" to refer to someone absent, and using it in the presence of the person to whom you are referring. Also we are leaving out McCain's tendency to personalize every close contest he faces: Obama, Romney, Bush. True Bush ran a sleazy campaign, but McCain's subsequent behavior suggests he'd have found a reason to resent Bush for running against him even if Bush had provided so many of them.
My mother-in-law used to call others "that one," the same way McCain used the phrase. The first couple of times I heard it, it was a bit jarring. But I realized it was just a figure of speech and she meant no insult by it. I'm an Obama supporter, but I figure McCain used the phrase the same way. So...meh.
I think McCain's mortgage buy-up plan may actually cost more than Obama's healthcare proposal. I'm loathe to lob the charge of socialism, because I think ideological criticisms often obscure the merits of individual plans, but McCain's proposal seems to match some conservative definitions of socialism I've listened to during this election. I oppose a mortgage buy-up, because it would impose a price floor on housing when one of the causes of the housing crisis was a bubble in the housing market. I actually think what McCain proposed might prolong the bubble.
John McCain--while changing his story from day to day--has there ever been a Presidential candidate so prey to the 24 hour news cycle--tells America that his is the steady hand on the tiller. America of the Democrats and Independents thinks--Popeye, my friends. This guy is full of spinach.
Obama wants to raise spending by 1 trillion dollars (on top of the 1 trillion dollar bailout) with just raising the taxes from the top 5% of taxpayers. The math doesn't work. By the way, does that include earmarks?...Obama wants to send even more money overseas to other countries that do not like us. Where will this money come from?...Obama has had questionable radical and liberal relationships for the last 20 years...Obama wants to socialize health care and fine anyone who doesn't buy health insurance...Obama wants to raise capital gains taxes (which companies don't pay) that everyday people get from the sale of homes or stocks...Obama wants to raise taxes on big companies like oil companies which will raise prices and provide fewer jobs and will also send more companies overseas...This economic failure is the product of both parties failure to work together over the years yet Obama will only blame Bush (who is not running by the way) even though Bush, McCain and other Republicans, not to mention the NYTimes in 1999 article, warned of this exact thing...I could go on and on about the things that this man has said that he will do without giving specifics about how he will do it. This man is definitely "The One", "The Wrong One" for the job. He has no real experience and will never reach across the aisle You can have him.
Reading most of the pro-McCain comments (the one at 11:06 excepted) I'm forced to conclude that truly excellent golf gear is being offered for every mention of Obama and Ayers in the same post. Come on, people! Would Reagan sit around complaining about how he just didn't like Jimmy Carter or Walter Mondale's neighbors? Can the fiscal branch of the Republicans not charge in with a powerful, positive message owning the economic mess and pointing the way out? Is there no positive argument to be made, based on McCain's record, of how he would be a steady hand on the tiller? Do you truly have nothing but a perennial complaint that Obama knows a man who was radical before the majority of the country, and a large hunk of the electorate, were even born?
Deborah, How about just answering the questions? That would be a novel thought! Explain to me and every other voter how spending more money and raising taxes on those who create jobs will help the economy. Just that one question!! How will he pay for TWO TRILLION DOLLARS (bailout plus Obama's) in spending??? I'm just asking for "The One" to explain where the rest of the money will come from. Help me to understand how you can ask to spend another TRILLION DOLLARS when the economy is already in trouble. I don't care who caused the problem or who's to blame (all of them), but where will the money come from?
I'm also not so concerned about individual "That ones" or apparent slights on the debate floor. The larger message is the context that leads to such unnecessary moves on McCain's part that give fuel to his unflattering image in the mediasphere. By showing his curmudgeonly side, John McCain gives "old" people a bad rap. In politics as in life, you can approach your challenges with the dignity of acceptance and make the best of it. Or, like John McCain, you can fight reality and make your challenges (Obama, 8 years of negative Republican "government") all the more difficult to endure and triumph over. A PBS commentator on my local radio said this morning what I've heard countless times lately in the media: McCain has NO CHOICE but to attack his opponent with anything he can because he's behind. Bulloney! A human being always has many choices. McCain has clearly chosen to sell out his higher values, which I believe are still in there somewhere, and resort to what advisors tell him he should do: smear Obama. He has at least one other, far more compelling choice that he has alas chosen - repeat, chosen - not to make: he could talk about his love of country, about his vision for the future, about how he would turn around the Bush disaster, about how his unique experience in life has taught him how to deal with future crises, and on and on. He could in short show us the very best man, the man of character, conviction and dignity, that lives within him, instead of this petty, artless, awkward, conniving, poll-driven slime lord with a deaths-head rictus masquerading as a smile that he's become in his concession to defeat. For he will lose, if he stays on this path. Make no mistake about it. He will only increase the scorn on his candidacy in the same way another front-runner, Hillary Clinton, did against the same opponent. Like her, McCain has learned zip from her savaging of Obama. McCain makes the same mistakes, over and over, meanwhile enlisting the aid of an empty-head fluffy bunny from a state on the political fringe to buy himself votes. Good grief. This is "country first"? A person only makes such choices when he's already convinced, no doubt unconsciously, that he's going to lose. People get desperate when confronted with not achieving goals. When infused with such a conviction of imminent loss, there is no real chance of winning. McCain will attract defeat in a number of unconscious ways. He ensures defeat, for example, with every anti-character innuendo, with every Palin-puppeted attack, with every teeth-clenched attempt at humor or even a simple warm smile, the genuine qualities of which seem to have eluded him for a long time now. Watching McCain is like watching a Greek tragedy where you know the hero is going to be eaten by the Minotaur in the end. John McCain has given in to the dark side of his nature. And who among us, truthfully, wants a President leading the country through troubled times who is so bespittled with animosity for the opponent in front of his face that he can't look beyond for the highest, best possible solutions, whichever side of the aisle they come from? This is sadly a man who, instead, gives into advice from people who would tear down, rather than lift up, the American spirit. We've seen the value of that for the last 8 years. As Obama said so compellingly in his inauguration speech, "enough!" Enough indeed.
Join my new Facebook group called "I'm Voting For 'That One'." And invite your friends to join too!
Thomas R writes: "Some feel 2001-2006 was so problematic because you had a President and Congress too much in sync so they became arrogant, shiftless, and pushed this country too far." The real problem was that the Repiglican Party has gone so far to the right that it no longer has any principles except the pursuit of power and wealth. And the president was (and is) a shallow, worthless moron who should spend the rest of his life in prison as a war criminal. A month from now Obama will be the President-Elect and at least a couple of dozen Repiglican legislators will have been bounced from office. Call it the Great Fumigation. I'm optimistic about the future. It's hard to see how we could be worse served than we have been by the Bushpigs and all who sailed with them. Worst. President. Ever.
"He ran for president against the leaders in his party! Is that challenge enough?" Michael In a word, no. First I'd consider the leaders of the party as Harry Reid, Howard Dean, and Nancy Pelosi. Second I'm talking substance or a stand. The Iraq War doesn't even really count as the Democratic US Senator from Illinois, Durbin, voted against the Iraq War Resolution as did 61% of Democrats in the US House of Representatives. Ironically the one area I found where he does seem to vary with his party is he's more in favor of earmark accountability and reform.
I'm really surprised at the comments of south asians being black...normally i would argue it (my kids/hubby look white- while i have the coloring of light brown)...But after the debate I'd rather be black...Given the way the old man embarrassed every white person on the planet last nite.
Okay Thomas R, I would like to point out that i admire the courage of that one for standing up to do what is impossible...Becoming a black president. Do you understand what that means? He may die before he completes his term... before he even gets into office... due to hatred. Hatred that has been upped a knotch by the remark and palin bullshit this weekend. How would she like it if someone gave the exact coordinates of her soldier son in iraq to the terrorists? This nastiness is dangerous. What will obama gain by winning? His family will possibly be a repeat of the Kennedy tradgedy. I look at the love they have in that family and feel sad that we as a nation instead of making them feel safe are justifying and making excuses for these behaviors that threaten that safety. Shame on us all.
Us Canadians think That One is your next President.
I agree South Asians aren't "black." I wasn't sure how to say what I meant, but South Asians are often darker-skinned. Most ethnic groups native to the tropics are darker skinned presumably for evolutionary reasons. This is slightly less true, but still somewhat true, of American Indians as they arrived in the tropics much later. This doesn't make these groups "black", as Americans use the term, but I've seen this confusion on occasion. Interestingly people at the higher lattitudes are not necessariy "light skinned." The Europeans and Ainu are the only "white peoples" I'm aware of. (I hope this didn't sound offensive) "Becoming a black president. Do you understand what that means?" Babbi It is inspiring. Still, this doesn't say much about beliefs or being ideologically independent. I admire that he has achieved many things, but I just don't agree with him. I am fairly certain he will be our next President and I hope/trust he will not face the same fate as the first Catholic President. (Granted his religion had nothing to do with JFK's assassination)
McCain is revealing who he really is. An angry old man that lives in the world of entitlement. Starting with the fact he should have never graduated from the US Naval Academy! That was all outside influence he hadn't earned. Sadly he as transformed himself from a highly respected POW who served his country. To a; border line (racist),out of touch, disrespectful angry man, a shameful excuse of a dirty political machine that has spit in the eye of Americans. What a shame! nothing is worth a man's honor. I thought he McCain learned this in the Navy apparently not. Hm..."the one" is kicking his... in the polls becuase of his own doing! It's not luck for Obama, but McCain ignorance, and out touch, entitlement mentality, dishonorable conduct, and his bad judgement ( Palin) is too blame. What a shame! for McCain it just wasn't worth the price. Hm..even it somehow he wins it still wasn't worth his honor one day he will regret it again.
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Boring as hell - which means Obama won. This election is over...wrap it up for us please.
Posted by Mark | October 7, 2008 10:47 PM