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The Republican Lockbox

05 Dec 2008 02:13 pm

I'm going to spill just a bit more bytes on what I've taken to calling the Republican Lockbox dilemma, or why the structure of politics, even more than particular events like the economic collapse and Bush fatigue, reinforces the challenege of a nationwide Republican comeback.

1. The class inversion. As described by Ron Brownstein, it's the growing strengh of Democrats among a certain type of white, college-educated voter; Obama won 47% of these voters in 2008, the most ever for a Democrat, and the trend has been advancing.  While Republicans typically do better among white, non-college voters, the share of these voters has been dropping fairly rapidly from election to election. They were a majority of the vote when Bill Clinton ran; they're 39% of the vote today.   One reason why wealthier, knowledge/service workers are voting Democratic is because the Republicans have boxed themselves in on cultural issues, including the role and place of science in society. Since the mid-nineties, Democrats have been gaining in these knowledge/professional melting pot/white collar  suburbs -- just check out four cycles worth of results from the ring counties around Philadelphia, Fairfield Co., CT, Oakland County, MI, Sillicon Valley.... (It was this trend that catalyzed R. Tiexiera and J. Judis's prescient book about the emerging Democratic majority).  Even as these workers generally favor lower taxes and less spending, a larger and larger share of white voters with college degrees considers themselves to be moderates on social issues: generally pro-choice, pro-civil union or same-sex marriage.

2. Party structure. Conservatives hold more sway in the Republican Party than liberals do in the Democratic party. To put it another way, conservatives make up a larger portion of the Republican base than liberals do of the Democratic base -- a larger percentage, even of their national committee that liberals do in the DNC. Therefore, it's more difficult for Republican candidates to challenge orthodoxy and dogma; it's harder for a Bill Clinton figure to emerge.  You cannot build a Republican Party without social conservatives. Another Brownstein point: the high water mark for the modern Republican coalition was 2004, when national security became the glue that held disparate strands together, when George Bush's popularity pulled just enough voters across the line.  But even then, his majority was among the narrowest of the century. And in 2000, John McCain did George W. Bush a favor; the latter, by protesting so loudly against the Pat Robertsons of the world, allowed the former to avoid explicitly indentifying them.  (Note well: Bush still lost the Philly suburbs.) You can't win elections without the strong support of social conservatives, and it seems as if, going forward, Republicans won't be able to win them without somehow convincing the denizens of Bucks, Delaware and Montgomery counties that social issues are simply less important to them.  It used to be that Republicans won the culture wars and Democrats won the economy wars; ironically, the base of the Democratic Party isn't demographically wired to be responsive to economic populism and more and more responsive to post-material appeals about culture, America's role in the world, and government reform.

3. Writing off the country.  Republicans can't write off everything outside the deep South and the interior rural West. The traditional Republican campaign blueprint has to be rewritten almost entirely. It's very upsetting, and worrying, to many Republicans operatives when they realize that millions of tax-sensitive voters knew that Obama would raise their taxes and still voted for him.

4. Minority voters. Black voters are pretty much locked up for eight years. Some Republicans argue that black middle class voters, having been empowered by the election of Barack Obama, will become less faithful to the Democratic Party.  Well -- so long as the Republicans continue to field legitimate party chair candidates who were very recently members of exclusionist country clubs, that's not going to happen. Conservatives aren't going to step away from opposition to comprehensive immigration reform, even though many prominent GOP voices want them to; Democrats have strong majorities among every other minority group. 

What's the solution?

It's hard to think of one  Republicans can't win without social conservatives, and so they shouldn't try to. They can't win by "going back to their roots," in part because that phrase is tautological and has no agreed upon meaning. By roots, does one mean anti-communism? Lower taxes? Cultural traditionalism? Libertarianism? It took Bill Clinton to bring Democrats out of their wilderness, but he took the party from point A to point B. Adapting conservative principles to modern developments like globalization is an obvious avenue to reform, but that's easier said than done, and there are many in the party who believe that no change on policy is needed, just a new "tone." 

I throw the comments open for readers to weigh in.

Comments (85)

I think republicans need to get away from social issues. this is the 21st century and you can't thrive in the 21st century with a mid 20th century mindset.

i think thats why obama did so well. he appealed modern voters on modern issues that mattered and that they cared about.

i doubt the gop will ever stop running on guns, gods, gays, and abortions, but until they start articulating issues other than those, voters won't support them.

i mean, we're in an economic meltdown and john mccain is not talking about conservative, republican solutions, he's calling obama a socialist who hates american values.

in part, its because he thought that was the only way to win, but also, i think its because he didn't really have any republican solutions to the mess republican governance created.

Also, it seems like republicans don't understand that 2/3 of this country are either democrats or independents and that to win elections you need to appeal to voters who aren't republican. Thats why i say they need to stop with the guns,god, and gays strategy and focus on the moderates in the middle who are alienated by the gop's hostile attitude towards those who are different than they are.

They're not going to win on the issues, as the issues now stand. Either they'll win in a situation like this year with an unpopular Democratic party and bad economy with a charismatic Republican who people vote for despite things they disagree with him on. Or they'll change stances on issues that turn moderates off to them like what happened in Britain after 1997 (but what effect would this have on their base; can they always count on them?). Or they'll keep losing for the foreseeable future as demographic changes render them a permanent minority.

The Funny Truth is that from 16 Republican Senators that were against the Immigration reform bill last year, only 2 were reelected, 14 LOST THEIR SEATS . This says it all,

I am not saying don't close the borders, I am saying stop the Old way of Thinking and learn to accept every HUMAN AS Gods Child.

NO HUMAN IS ABOVE ANOTHER.


I think your point #4 is the most enduring, and therefore important, one. The single biggest problem for Republicans--and it's a FATAL one--is the shrinking vote share of white voters. The Republicans have no appeal to people of color. Cultural conservatism by its very nature struggles to accept and integrate differences not only in race and color but also religion, language, or mere social custom. And economic conservatism by its very nature is unresponsive to the chronic economic problems of blacks and Hispanics. Republicans cannot jettison either cultural conservatives or economic conservatives and still win.

The white vote, per exit polling, was 83% in 1996; 81% in 2000; 77% in 2004; and 74% in 2008. And this is BEFORE Hispanic voting has really exploded.

I don't see a path to victory for Republicans going forward even if they somehow regain the white support they've recently lost.

And I didn't even mention the ominous 2008 exit poll statistic of whites-under-30 going 56-44 for Obama. If Republicans lose a generation of whites to my party, then they are in for BLOWOUT losses for the indefinite future.

It may take twenty years but eventually the Democrats will alienate part of their coalition and the Republicans with do something right. Can't predict what it might be -- maybe the race-baiting / xenophobe branch of the GOP will die off and the religious right will expand their notion of "pro-life" to beyond abortion, drawing Hispanic voters their way. Or maybe a new international crisis and Democratic bungling will convince somebody to give Republicans a second chance.

Not exactly a solution JT.

I believe that the only way back is to get rid of the antiquated social agenda and the tired old "all government is bad" attitude.

I believe that the only way through this is through efficiency of programs and economic frugality. Government is not bad, it is just not efficient enough. That's how they can win.

I have to disagree with a couple of the commenters. The Republicans are currently the party of bitter white voters, but it doesn't have to stay that way. Remember that the Democrats just 50 years ago were the ones resisting integration. Parties change as their base shifts; minorities may fear the Republicans now but you can change that in just a couple election cycles.

What the GOP should do: lay off the social issues for a while without reversing their positions, and aggressively court centrists, technocrats and anyone else they can bring in under the good government umbrella. It's too late to claim to be against government expansion; we've already socialized half the economy. Now they should focus on oversight, accountabilty and cutting waste. In other words, being good opposition. If they get back to their roots, some real competent leaders will emerge organically.

That and perhaps shying away from trying to taint the candidacy of all non-whites as somehow less American. The Roves of the world have done more damage to the GOP brand than anyone else. I'm not saying treat them with kid gloves, but find something else to knock besides their race. As a child of immigrants who always voted republican when I was growing up, it's hard to face the fact you're not wanted. That's probably why I vote Dem now.

To me, the biggest single thing that Bush and the recent Republican Party has failed at is being responsible, competent leaders. Iraq, but Katrina especially, really blew up the myth of the "GOP Daddy" that was going to come in, take charge, and fix things. That kind of brand erosion is really detrimental to a party.

So, what needs to happen? The GOP needs to work on its executive bench, especially among the governors, and figure out a set of local and state-level policies that make a real difference.

Also, losing Latinos as heavily as the GOP did is suicidal. I don't know what you do here. The rabid majority of the GOP is just dead set against immigration reform and will punish candidates that don't toe the party line. Not unlike the shift California has already gone through.

Interesting discussion. Political evolution doesn't happen in a vacuum, so part of the driving force behind GOP self-reform will come in response to the Dems in general and Obama in particular. Democratic overreach is one oft-mentioned lesson from the Clinton years that comes to mind; here and now, FOCA is one possible early instance of this, but I suspect that as Dems stay in power longer and shed the inferiority complex they've honed so well over the years, confidence will inevitably breed more over-confidence and so actions spearheaded by the Democratic Party that are "out of the mainstream" will become more common.

But the GOP has to take more pro-active steps, too, to reform themselves. Here are some ways that I, admittedly a Berkeley liberal, would try to steer the GOP in a new direction under the political constraint that, as Marc said, you cannot just purge entire swaths of the current Republican coalition:

  • Younger aka the "David Cameron" approach. Find young(er), more dynamic candidates who are plugged in to and comfortable modern cultural language to be the public face of the party. Even though I think she's problematic in other regards, Sarah Palin is huge progress on this front. So is Bobby Jindal.

  • More Racially and Ethnically Diverse See above. First- and second-generation immigrants would, I believe, be a far more natural constituency for the GOP's socially-conservative message if they felt, y'know, welcome and celebrated.

  • Don't Give Up on Urban Voters Rudy Giuliani proved that a conservative approach to urban policy can garner support even in a deeply-blue city. The GOP needn't compromise on its principles to push a convincing, and at its core conservative, urban platform. Even though it's not the 80s any more, we urban residents are still anxious about crime, schools, and transportation. Bold and credible ideas in those areas may not make Manhattan a GOP stronghold, but it may give the GOP enough urban breathing room to do better in states like, say, Pennsylvania. Oh, and as a subpoint to this...

  • Enfranchise Gays This is one of the few areas where I would actually advise the GOP to butt heads with its religious wing. Frankly, you guys are in crisis mode now, so you don't have the luxury of exclusionary identity politics any more. Maybe you can't openly advocate for gay marriage, but drop support for the FMA and say that you'll accept the legitimacy of pro-gay marriage policies in states that pass them through the legislature or referendum, but not through judicial fiat. And to make this harsh medicine go down easier for your right wing, start framing monogamous gay families in the same language you do families in general.

  • For God's Sake, Get an Economic Policy Other Than Tax Cuts Now, Obama may overreach on taxes, so maybe tax cuts will once again have political bite. But they don't right now, especially not corporate or capital gains tax cuts. At the very least, float a tax proposal that helps the poor and middle classes, like a payroll tax cut. Even better, start throwing weight behind domestic policy proposals that will have a tangible economic impact on middle class families: help on college tuition, a healthcare solution, etc.
  • Become Intellectually Serious Again OK, so this treads on a bit of religious right terf as well. Marginalize people who want to ban evolution. Concede the basic science behind the climate change debate. And seriously curb the populist-salt-of-the-earth-Bush-Palin schtick.

kobayashimaru:

a rebuttal to a couple of your points:

i) sarah palin is not "huge progress" on the modernization of the party. she's emblematic of the problem in which they think a dumbed down charachature of the every man/woman appeals to voters. that gamble blew up in the the gop's face. just look at the numbers to prove it.

Those figures were daunting enough, but new calculations from the exit poll provided by the NBC News political unit show that outside of the Republican base skepticism about Palin's credentials reached even more imposing heights. While 74% of Republicans thought Palin was qualified, just 35% of independents and 9% of Democrats agreed

so if they want to keep losing, they should keep nominating palin types. she has great appeal to the base, but like i said, in order to win elections, you need people who arent republicans to vote for you. Sarah palin types, and palin in particular, failed at that.

ii) Rudy Giullani didnot apply a "conservative" approach to governing NYC. He was a moderate. He had to be in NY and thats why he didn't win the gop nomination. He wasn't "conservative" enough for the base.

btw, i think you're right on economic policy. for too long the gop's only answer to economic problems has been "cut the capital gains tax".

Some of these are good points, but one of them is way, way wrong. The idea that the Republican base has more conservatives than the Democratic base has liberals is mis-interpreting poll results. There's a big difference between what people call themselves and how close people actually are to orthodoxy.

Anybody could see this effect by watching a single Republican and Democratic presidential primary debate. In the Republican debates you had candidates who disagreed sharply on almost every issue, from the size of government to immigration to gun rights to abortion to torture. In each case, you had MULTIPLE candidates fiercely arguing each side.

In the Democratic debates, every candidate agreed on every single issue. Can anybody name a substantive difference between Obama, Hillary, Richardson, Biden or Edwards on ANY issue? Of course you can't. It was a primary of personality and identity. You had the charming white southerner, the black guy, the woman, the hispanic... why do you think Dodd and Biden didn't get anywhere? They had no personality niche.

So while some of your arguments are valid, there's no question that the Republican base is much more INTELLECTUALLY diverse than the Democratic base. A Republican can win primaries and nominations without swearing loyalty to any specific interest group. On the Democratic side, it's impossible to even win a nomination to a SCHOOL BOARD election without swearing to never ever EVER question the unions and the minority grievance groups.

A Republican can go against the religious right and win. A Democrat can't go against the unions and win.

The situation is even worse than Ambinder thinks. Voters born since 1975 have supported Democrats over Republicans by a 2-1 majority in every election in which they've been able to vote. Democrats even have a 10 point edge among white voters in that age cohort (1975-1990). This is a generation for whom Ronald Reagan is a picture in a history textbook. The only Presidents they have known are named Bush or Clinton. As a group, they are much more liberal (esp. on social issues) and more socially concerned than the rest of the electorate.

The current Republican party has no chance with these folks. A successful two-term Obama Administration would put the Republicans at a permanent 5% point (or more) disadvantage in national elections. Their only hope is the ineffable ability of the Dems to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

A Republican can go against the religious right and win.

is that why when john mccain called jerry fallwell and pat robertson "agents of intoleranc"e he lost but when he embraced those same agents of intolerance 8 yrs later he won?

I don't know what I can add to KobayashiMaru's comment. I especially echo the point re tax cuts. I am no socialist, or even a progressive - I consider myself somewhere between a libertarian and a classical liberal - but much of the Republican Party's rhetoric when it comes to tax cuts has no intellectual or academic basis. Rudy Giuliani in particular was a horrible offender here.

The Republicans should be emphasizing that markets need institutions to work properly, and point out areas where Democratic policy has been to marginalize these institutions. Don't sell government as evil or inherently incompetent, because everyone knows that any big enterprise - be it government or a corporation has some inherent inefficiency built in. Instead, sell an agenda of government which creates an appropriate environment for Americans to exercise their freedoms in - one where government is neither on everyone's back, nor completely removed. You can't run the government with an anti-government agenda. You need to campaign and govern on an agenda which touts your ability to focus government on the right things.

Excellent summary of Republican's dilema. I think you guys try too hard to get God a palce at the table(public policy). You need to realize that God is not an American. That would be my advice to you. I don't mean to abandon God.

For example gay marriage. When your spokepersons, (not politicians) say homosexuality is a sin, that you can cure "gayness" to those independents or moderates that may not sound very intelligent. The argument isn't what God wants us to do policy-wise, it's what are we as Americans going to do. To some of us, religion is personal. If we want to believe in heaven and hell, Adam & Eve, then we'll do so in our hearts, not when when we vote.

Not mentioned in the above analysis is the huge influence of talk radio on the GOP. As long as Limbaugh rules the right-wing roost, the GOP is going to be driven by populist furies, no matter how short-sighted. Limbaugh and his audience are pro-Palin, anti-immigration, pro-war in Iraq, pro-oil (and global warming), and pro-torture. They are the GOP base. This is not good news for the party, and it's not good news for the nation.

In the long run, the way out of this quagmire for the GOP is pretty clear. They need to become a truly conservative party, and this means not anti-Democrat, but a party that vigilantly guards the value of money (responsible budgeting), blood (no foreign adventures), and earth (a recognition that our civilization depends on natural capital -- which we are depleting as fast as we can).

But this is going to be a very long run. It took sixteen years for the GOP to go from Goldwater to Reagan; it will probably take at least that long for the GOP relearn the concept of responsibility.

"it's impossible to even win a nomination to a SCHOOL BOARD election without swearing to never ever EVER question the unions"

I'm pretty sure Obama really pissed off the teachers' unions by showing strong support for merit pay. And you're gonna have to give examples of someone going against the religious right, considering all the sucking up and changed beliefs McCain felt obligated to do for them.

Anyway, you miss the point about the relative homogenuity of each party. The left wing of the Democratic party (people like Kos and Huffington) have essentially nobody in high elected positions. The closest I can think of is Kucinich (and perhaps Franken soon) and they're both seen as kooks by a lot of people. The Democratic contenders all sounded the same because Democratic politicians are all centrist, not because they're all liberal. There was no liberal to contrast with them in those debates.

On the other hand, there are tons of elected Republicans in line with Limbaugh and Hannity (like, half the Republican senators). The debate right now is largely between ultra-conservative and center-left, and that means that 60% of the country naturally finds themselves more in line with the center-left people.

So, step one for the Republicans is to get back to center-right. People like Inhofe and Cornyn and everyone on Fox are terrible advocates to make Republicans appeal to moderates. The ultra social conservatism simply has to go. Or not, but that'd be my advice anyway.

It helps as a Republican to mend fences with the religious right. But John McCain was able to have a fight against those guys and get pretty far in his career. He served in the senate and nearly won the nomination in 2000. And in 2008, McCain was one of the LAST guys that the religious right wanted. Just look at who the religious right's first choice has been for the past 30 years in Republican presidential primaries. Not only do they never win, they never even get second (in a contested primary... I'm not counting Pat Buchanan's quixotic run against Bush I in 1992).

Meanwhile, did you listen to the Democratic candidates grovel to the unions throughout the debates?

And I'll give a perfect example of this in practice: The Republican base is generally associated with being anti-abortion, yet the Republican Party chose to scuttle the "Sanctity of Life Act", that would have effectively overturned Roe v Wade. They knew that it was a political minefield, and did what was in their best interest. Compare this to the Orwellian "Employee
Free Choice Act", which even most Democrats oppose as an egregious abuse of union power. They know that it will be massively politicall unpopular, yet basically every Democrat in Washington will vote for it because they know that they can't afford to go against the unions. It would be a death sentence for their political careers.


But of course, the most blatant example is what I said about the primaries. The Republicans had disagreements on issues. The Democrats had disagreements on personality. Between January and May of this year, I challenged dozens of Hillary and Obama voters to tell me one policy difference between them. The closest I got was two or three who said "I think there's a difference on health care... not sure, though."

Some Republican has to figure out a way to get enough money and enough grassroots support to win without a) kowtowing to the Club-for-Growth taxcuts-are-a-panacea crowd or b) kowtowing to the creationist-anti-abortion-anti-contraception religious crowd.

In the good old days, an Eisenhower/Ford/GHWBush Republican could get to the top by promising modestly pro-business economic policy, and a competent realist foreign policy. But with the institutions of the Gingrich/Bush/Rove party, the rabid taxcutters make it impossible for a Republican to win primaries without being insane on economic, and GWB's legacy makes a promise of competent and snae foreign policy unconvincing.

Unless and until those institutional forces are defanged, the GOP is in a very bad way indeed. And the demographic changes in the mountain West
and Southwest give them an uphill battle.

At the national level, the republican Part is a mess verging on a joke. The Sarah Palin/Joe the Plumber routine was embarrassing. Creationism, blatant appeals to idiocy and thinly veiled bigotry look bad and are disgraceful. Thankfully, they don't seem to win elections every time either.
Regardless, at the local level, Republicans can and do offer viable ideas and policies. I'm a Democrat but if an anti-abortion, creationist right winger promises - and follows up his promises with action - to address infrastructure, get rid of the fat in city and state government, fire incompetent government employees, reward innovation and speak honestly, he/she will get my vote.
This is a two party country for better or worse and we need a vibrant Republican Party putting up good candidates.

"And in 2008, McCain was one of the LAST guys that the religious right wanted. Just look at who the religious right's first choice has been for the past 30 years in Republican presidential primaries."

Compare and contrast with the overwhelming evidence McCain only picked Palin because he *was not allowed* to pick the pro-choice vps he wanted (Lieberman or Ridge) because picking a pro-choice vp would have caused a floor fight at the convention.

Seriously, Jeff, your arguments that Republicans have a bigger tent and are less entwined to their respective bases is clearly farcical. I think this is the major Republican problem that must be fixed: the utter denial of reality. Fox and talk radio have repeated things into Republicans' heads so many times they hold them as self-evident.

*Realism*, more than anything else, is the way back to power for the Republicans. The first step to that is silencing Limbaugh, in my opinion.

It's not just that they can't win without their base; their base is exceedingly demanding. If you don't check all the right boxes they will turn on you and seek out someone who does. The candidate who emerges will be increasingly unlikely to appeal to enough voters to win. Sure McCain won the nomination and he is no darling of the religious right, but he won barely and because his competitors were so obviously unlikely to win the general election. And he had to pander shamelessly to do so. This cost him the election. The swing voters are increasingly turned off by the vocal Republican base, and since that base is all-or-nothing about everything, I don't see where Republicans go from here. Democrats have become the catch-all party, and Republicans don't have any policy successes to use to contrast themselves with.

Republicans scuttled SOLA because it was bad politics. We live in a prochoice country and to impose a draconian anti-abortion law would ensure defeats for possibly a generation.

On EFCA it is WAYYY TOOOO Hard to organize in this country. EFca makes it easier. And if a percentage of employess want a secret ballot (it's a low number but i can't remember it off the top of my head) they'll get one. But in the meantime, employers can threaten, and actually FIRE employees if they even talk about unionizing. EFCA is a step to remedy that. its good policy and thats why the dems supported it.

And the biggest difference between hillary and barack was 1)judgment and 2) change. Hillary showed very bad judgment in voting for the iraq war and in her hawkish positions on iran. And 2) hillary couldn't be a credible change agent because she was a washington insider, in her words, for 35 years.

I think you've properly diagnosed Republicans problems, and I think you're right to note (Fear? Not sure what your leanings are.) that there is no readily apparent solution. And that is truly a thing of beauty. It makes me smile, and I'm not even very liberal. I hate Republicans not because of their ideology, but because I hate the way they have corrupted and subverted the democratic process. That's why the irony is so delicious now. They spent thirty years convincing people that social issues were the MOST IMPORTANT thing facing this country, in the service of getting fearful religious people to vote against their economic interest. The problem was that social conservatives are patently wrong (and on issues like abortion/contraception/abstinence-only education/Plan B they are virtually incoherent) on social issues, and people my age and younger can see that. So it's no longer politically effective for those to be the most important issues on which no compromise is offered, but the GOP can't talk it's own people out of it now. There's too much inertia in these churches and too many people make lots of money yelling about gays on the radio for that to happen. And so, the GOP will take AT LEAST one more presidential cycle before they even realize the scope of the changes they have to make. Beautiful. And so, although I never thought I'd say it, thanks George Bush and Karl Rove.

Ambinder has no clue about things like immigration, but is simply a sheltered, East coast hack.

Those most interested in "reform" aren't so much "minority voters" - those who would be negatively impacted by "reform" - but their many-times self-appointed leaders who stand to obtain power. And, of course, businesses who want ever-cheaper labor.

The Dems are extremely vulnerable on this issue, it's just that because the GOP is completely corrupt they're unable to attack them.

P.S. See my name's link for a recent Ambinder lie.

I think that one nugget hidden in "class inversion" deserves more emphasis. It isn't just the GOP's social conservatism, it is that coupled with biblical literalism and hostility to science. This hostility to expertise and reality-based solutions particularly alienates managerial and scientific types who make up a large part of white, college-educated voters. A large part of the Bush debacle was due to incompetence (and a large part to venality), but much of the incompetence came from deference to ideology and denigrating reality-based solutions, i.e., not listening to people who really know a subject.

This is yet another reason that the GOP's prospects look dim. They can't moderate the social conservatism AND biblical literalism, because that is the core philosophy of the base. They have probably lost the moderates for a decade and the younger folks forever. Unless the Obama Admin (or more likely the Dems in Congress) don't make any real progress. If the Dems can pull together and address the economy, climate change and health care, and bring most of the troops home, they will enjoy an Rooseveltian run of a generation or more.

Which is why Mitch McConnell and the other GOP Hooverites will try to prevent those things from happening. Hopefully Obama will isolate the GOP Ultras and wheedle the Dem center to join him in making needed reforms.

The crazies are out in full force!

@freaktown

I wasn't arguing that Sarah Palin was on balance a step forward for the GOP (in fact, I think there's no better exemplar of the GOP drift from an ideas-driven movement than her candidacy), just that on the narrow issue of recruiting youngish (

That said, come 2012 and beyond the GOP should throw long to get as far away from a Palin presidential candidacy as possible.

As for Giuliani, while it's an interesting question how important his admittedly left-of-center social views were in allowing New Yorkers to swallow his urban policy, make no mistake: it was a conservative urban policy. Now maybe taking the broad spectrum of his politics balances him out to somewhere in the vicinity of "moderate," but I don't see why a conservative crime and social policy agenda must go hand-in-hand with social liberalism (again, maybe in New York it does, but Pittsburgh? Atlanta?). The GOP could easily preserve its pro-life lean and aversion to divorce while cracking down on "broken windows" crimes, addressing homelessness, etc.

There isn't a solution.
If the supposition is that Republicans cannot win without social conservatives, I believe one can show that social conservatives will continue to shrink. Mobilized gay/lesbian movement, the rise of rationalists (Hitchens, Dawkins, etc.), alignment of the youth with the Democrats, continued shrinking of the blue collar base and rise in the educated classes.

What will happen? The moneyed classes won't have the Gammas/Epsilons of the GOP base anymore, so they'll work to influence the Democrats. Unfortunately for the GOP, the Democrats were slow learners last time, taking forty years to reach the level of corruption that the Republicans did in ten.

Oh, there will be interesting side battles in the decline though. Like here in Texas where the GOP want to eliminate straight ticket voting.

One thing that I think the GOP missed though is that really strict funding of races - even public funding on limited funds - would really work to their advantage. Stupidly, they can't see that once mobilized, the (White)Rich Man's burden that is the GOP can't keep up.

You cannot be anti science. You cannot think that being gay is a choice. You cannot believe that cutting taxes and raising spending will magically work. You can't have Grover Norquist as your philosophical bedrock, unless of course he's leading the Beer Hall putsch.

"Adapting conservative principles to modern developments like globalization is an obvious avenue to reform, but that's easier said than done, and there are many in the party who believe that no change on policy is needed, just a new 'tone.'"

I don't think it's actually too difficult to adapt conservative principles to modern developments; but they've got to drop some of the ridiculous rhetoric. Take the environment. I didn't understand the "drill baby drill" ordeal, for example. With so many greater concerns than a debate on drilling, it seems gimmicky and downright stupid to evangelize these kinds of positions, with such vigor, especially when you have a lot of younger kids wiser on the issues, who win the argument with their own parents. Talk about ringing a tin can. Seriously, you're not casting a very wide net with those kinds of issues. How about tackling 21st century issues and getting serious about the things that really matter. Stop treating issues like abortion and creationism as trump cards at a time when the country is in two wars, our worldwide environment is suffering, and we're in an economic freefall. This isn't rocket science. My 10 year old neice could run the RNC better than those egg heads.

I keep harping on it, but don't forget young voters. Republicans lost them 66-32, and party ID is remarkably sticky.

You know, it was all the way back in late 2006 that I was predicting Obama would win and would win by a solid margin. It's the vision thing. Where are Republican solutions to the economic crisis? Where are Republican solutions to the health care crisis? Where are Republican solutions to the incipient energy crisis, given that offshore drilling doesn't come close to covering the gap? Where are Republican solutions to the environmental crisis, given that trying to ignore it is not a solution? Where is a Republican articulating deft use of soft as well as hard power in the war on terror? And so on.

Republicans need to keep the social issues where they are but de-emphasize them, especially in the general, but I'm not sure the base will let them do that yet. They also need to move towards realism in foreign policy, and put a heavy emphasis on pragmatism and efficient government. Young voters need to hear that scientists and experts will be listened to in a Republican administration. I see signs of that strain of thinking in guys like Jindal and Crist and even Pawlenty (albeit I have no idea about the foreign policy of any of them, and I think it more likely that the base will nominate a Palin-type in 2012).

My next prediction was that the Republicans would have to really reorganize and change some party planks to recapture power, along the lines of the British Tories over the last decade, and that they would not retake the white house until 2016 at the earliest or more likely 2020. Let's see if I'm right.

For "voters born since 1975... Ronald Reagan is a picture in a history textbook... As a group, they are much more liberal... and more socially concerned."

And they've never experienced a major disruption to the world economy. The fantasy of never-ending prosperity gives one the luxury to focus on quality of life, economic justice, environmental protection, and other "social" concerns. Not to say that there isn't widespread fear about the future — just look at the ever-worsening consumer confidence surveys.

These worries and fears have been articulated as calls for "competence" and for "change to make government work". But no amount of intellectual brainpower in the Executive Branch can alter the reality of the long-cycle downturn we're entering, nor the unfolding upside-down demographic nightmare on the horizon.

This cohort will learn (sooner or later) that socialism isn't about "social" issues — it's about an economy that works. They'll also learn that a declining birth rate means that younger workers will be forced to fund massive inter-generational wealth transfers (Remember Social Security and Medicare? Young people may not expect any benefits for themselves, but they'll surely pay for the benefits of every Baby Boomer.)

And, eventually, they'll see the broad connections between economic prosperity, personal financial (and physical) security, and "family values." Some may argue that open borders and in-migration will stem the declining birth rate. They dismiss the cultural integration issues by declaring that all cultures are equal.

But if you think that multi-culturalism and open borders are the solutions to our problems, take a long, hard look at Europe and Japan.

Fortunately, there's a certain "self-selection" process in the decision to leave one's home country for better opportunities. Hispanics share many of the same core family values as "traditional" voters. So do Indians and many Asians.

Surely the Republican party must change. The anti-science bias and connection with religious fundamentalism is clearly backwards-looking. But the core principals of a free-market economy, limited government, self-reliance, protection of property rights (in addition to protection of civil rights) — plus a respect for families — will still be the foundation of a governing majority.

It's also, remarkably, the same principles on which our country was founded — the same 18th century English culture that still permeates our constitutional republic today.

Since at least 2004, the big question in Democratic circles has been - what's our argument (see Matt Bai)? How is liberalism relevant to the 21st century?

Now that the Democrats are back in power, I've been asking myself - what did we learn from our time in the wilderness? What was the argument? And I don't know that the Democratic Party ever settled on a neat little package like the Contract With America. Instead, it settled around a set of broad policy ideas that didn't necessarily flow from any fresh new spin on the old philosophy. Universal health care, ending the war in Iraq, a return to "diplomacy" (which may have been more a rejection of Bush's attitude toward foreign relations than a positive policy proposal), federal investment in R&D for new energy technologies, and federal investment in public infrastructure. The other two major elements of the Democratic platform in 2008 - increased regulation of the financial sector and a second stimulus package - were responses to economic events that came relatively late in the election cycle.

If there was a big animating idea, it was - we're all in this together, the GOP has encouraged greed and corruption in the financial sector, it's time we had a government that worked for everybody. And this wasn't a new idea.

I don't think there's a magic bullet for the GOP. They're going to be dominated, at least for the next few years, by southern conservatives, because that's who's left. They'll probably spin their wheels for two or three election cycles, doubling down on a pissed-off, defiant, confrontational cultural populism. After that, who knows?

The main issue for the GOP is that conservatives tend to be natural optimists. They tend to believe that liberals blow problems out of proportion and generate fake crises.

This has led to a governing philosophy that has a disinterest in, if not a downright contempt of, the very act of governance. If government is useless and in the way, how do you run a government?

This way of thinking worked for a surprisingly long time, as the nation's wealth grew, the USSR crumbled, and the next threats hadn't coalesced. If problems are dissipating, it's easy to act like there are no problems in the world, and liberals are worry worts, and government is overbearing.

BUT THEN. When problems did arise (responding to terrorism, a disastrous hurricane, the seeming implosion of unregulated free-market capitalism) the GOP is completely unequiped to deal with any of it. "Worrying about stuff is what Democrats do."

Well, turns out there are real problems in the world. Turns out you can't deal with foreign threats by launching any old war that seems convenient. Turns out you can't deal with domestic problems by putting people who hate government in charge of major departments. Turns out you can't deal with a problem bred in the free market with more deregulation.

In short, the part of the GOP that knew how to use government to effectively address real world problems has completely atrophied. Most of those people have been openly expressing contempt for the modern GOP for the past two or three years. Many voted for Obama.

You need to rebuild your leadership, including people who don't have contempt for the act of governance. Then a majority coalition will form again to support you. Good luck.

If Rush Limbaugh were to decide to run for the GOP nomination in 2012 he'd win and win easily. Then his sorry lunatic ass would get trounced in the general election, because he's a vapid clown with revolting character.

But the GOP base loves him.

And that's the problem the few sane people in the GOP have to deal with - they're stuck in a party filled to the brim with hateful crazy assholes who are proud of their ignorance. Good luck building on that.

Hope they stay locked in the box....

Circleglider,

A few things.

First of all, I'm not sure what lessons about open borders and multiculturalism being a bad idea you would have us draw from Japan and Europe. My lesson from Japan is that a highly xenophobic, closed-off society that goes into terminal demographic decline is going to struggle mightily. I mean really, can you think of a single less culturally open first-world country?

One lesson I would draw from Europe's problems with Muslim minorities is that excessive social regulation of the private sector, particularly hiring and firing, will produce massive unemployment, which in turn will lead to difficulty in integrating poorer minority groups. The second less would be that I'm sure glad the U.S.'s local pool of young immigrants is mostly Latino rather than Muslim, and that Americans tend to be less racist in their hiring practices and better at integrating their minorities than Europeans.

Would another lesson be that we need to step the trend towards demographic decline by emphasizing the family? Yes, and that should include governmental encouragement and assistance in the form of day care, etc., as well as better support for men and women who choose to take time off from work to raise their children.

As far as the economy, it is going to take several cycles for Republicans to take that issue back. Democrats have embraced a free-market foundation with governmental regulation (unlike the hoary old socialists of the '70's and '80's), which is something I think has been born out quite well recently. It will fall to Republicans to make careful arguments of degree on this issue.

Another thing is that I don't think anybody in the younger generation is going to write off the importance of the environment and clean energy just because of a disrupted economy. I certainly haven't. Come out of this down economic cycle without the energy issue solved and you'll go right into another crisis based around declining oil production and skyrocketing energy prices. That's why Obama has consistently put energy research and development at the top of his agenda. You can't lose sight of longer-term objectives and stumble from one crisis to another.

One final point is that there's much that appeals to me in the foundations of the Republican party. Like another voter upthread, I could easily be identified as a small-l libertarian or small-c conservative. But in the short term it's my judgment that the Republican party has badly lost sight of several of the core principles you've articulated.

Bill Clinton brought the Democrats "out of the wilderness" by making them what used to known as moderate Republicans? Interesting notion. But with the Democrats now tilted to Yuppies, is anyone going to advocate for the poor and disadvataged, and ignore the yelps of the middle-class that they (somehow) are now the disadvantaged class?

Will, I wouldn't say that there was a neat little package of new governing principles (though there was Pelosi's 6 for '06... remember that? Heh.) And it is certainly true that part of the Democratic success in '06 and '08 is simply a reaction to Republican overreach. I would say, however, that there was a philosophically different articulation of some of these older liberal ideas, based around pragmatism and actual science rather than moral ideology.

An argument for redoing health care that I frequently saw this time around is that the ever-growing circle of people without insurance are actually reducing the efficiency and increasing the costs of the system relative to government stepping in (e.g. uninsured going to emergency rooms), which in turn perpetuates the problem. This is a definite departure from arguing for universal health care as a great social good.

Obama's argument against Iraq back in 2002 wasn't that war is wrong, it was that Iraq was going to be a costly and ineffective war to spend our time fighting. His argument for getting out is that it will free up resources for domestic rebuilding and Afghanistan.

The energy platform came about because of the emergence of very real data regarding global warming, oil discovery and extraction, etc.

You might have a look over the article "the audacity of data," about the kind of small-c conservative thinkers, behavioral economists, etc., that surround Obama.

This kind of small-bore, pragmatic thinking has a lot of appeal to me personally. Grander ideologies have a way of falling apart when they are forced to interact with reality, time and time again. Democrats: the new Realists?

Circleglider -

On Social Security, I would also add that Republicans will be hit hard by the economic crisis for years to come. Any chance of private SS accounts invested in the stock market basically died when the DOW went below 9000. My dad retired this year. He would have been entirely wiped out if his entire retirement savings were in the stock market instead of a combination of SS and a traditional pension. Yeah, young workers might not always be happy about paying for other people, but Social Security privatization is going to be DOA for 20 years at least.

Ken Blackwell officially joins the race for RNC Chair.

and i bring this up because it illustrates what many have been talking about here.

In the first sentence of his announcement he says, "After prayerful consideration, I have decided to become a candidate for Chairman of the Republican National Committee."

right outta the box he's panderign to the religious wing of the party. What was that jeff was saying about republicans being able to take on the religious right????

What goes around comes around. The Republicans had a pretty good run, squandered the opportunity to govern conservatively, and have been cast out. The Liberals (having consistently and pretty successfully) driven policy in a generally leftward direction, get another shot at being in the drivers seat. I think that they will find that backbenching can be more effective than being in the majority.

The politicians (like Pelosi, Reid, Frank, Dodd, etc.) who are egomaniacal in their desire for the personal exercise of political power (ie: bending others to their will) prefer the front seat, but their way is by no means certain to be the most effective in the long run.

A bigger problem for the Republicans in general and Conservatives in particular is that there is damned little left to conserve. Some time way into the future, people will again popularly (bottom up) pick up the various yokes of personal responsibility that are the core of conservatism, but I think it will be a while. Maybe a long, long while.

Regards,
Brian Reilly

It's funny how every liberal wants the Republicans to give up on social conservatism. These out-of-touch elitists don't want a party that just talks about guns, god, and gays. Well good for you, because no party does that. It's a myth that the Republicans talk about these issues so much - McCain barely talked about them at all. Social issues were barely mentioned in this campaign - immigration not at all. Every time the Republicans nominate a candidate that does not appear to have true conservative values, he loses. Ford, Dole, McCain.

I grew up in these Philly suburbs. Reagan and Bush 1 won them - and they are social conservatives. I believe the trouble Republicans have in these type of areas is not social conservatism, but a lack of a modern message. Republicans, even with an unpopular president, could have won this election without the economic collapse - and even WITH that, they still got 46%. Republicans won 55% of the white vote.

Republicans disavow social issues at their peril. Social issues are winning ones for Republicans. A tiny minority of Americans is in favor of the NOW, NARAL abortion-on-demand, no restrictions view that Obama supports. TINY minority. John McCain should have brought this up more, not less. The VAST majority of Americans favor the rule of law and guarding our borders. Republicans nominated a candidate who didn't, and they lost a great potential issue.

The toughest thing for Republicans is the young voter shift. It is a big problem. It can only be helped by targeted messages to them. Young voters are not especially pro-abortion or pro-amnesty, and I have a feeling that as the Republican party becomes the "white" party and the Democrats the "minority" party for good, young voters will fall in these groups as well. Long-term, social conservatives have more kids, so the white population will gradually move right and vote more for Republicans as their share decreases.

As for my fellow college-educated white voters, I wonder what they want. Many of the young women callously and selfishly want a right to kill innocent life. Many of these same women feel that destroying traditional marriage is ok as well. The men are more split but may be going along to get action from the women. Young white men are the group the Republican party needs large amounts of. They will at some point realize that the feminist agenda and its aims are directly opposite to their goals and the goals of society. Women have been fighting the battle of the sexes while men have been watching TV. At some point, some women will need to learn what is right as well. These issues go to our core values as a country, and are much more important long-term than tax rates and health care.

It would be nice to see them at least TRY to pretend that they're not the party of hate, fear and unreason.

This is less a solution for the Republican party and more of a solution for American conservatives (small government conservatives - not social conservatives), but I suppose it absolutely could be co-opted by the GOP. I just ... don't expect it, given their religious base.

Go back to the principles of conservatism. Limited government, limited involvement. Looking at my (basically liberal) political mindset, that would essentially fit me.

I'm pro-choice because I don't think that government should interfere with a woman's right to choose - not because I think killing a fetus is a great thing. I'm pro-gay marriage because I don't think that the government should interfere when two legal adults wish to join their lives into one. And as I make a decent income, I'm all about lower taxes.

The Republicans who are true small-c conservatives need to rebrand themselves as something *other* than the GOP - in part so they can establish themselves separate from the old party and in part so that they can remake themselves.

Of course, creating and building a new political party is not going to be short-lived or easy (or even likely), but it's a potentially viable solution to have success in the next generation.

When Republicans finally stop wanting to destroy the federal government and actually start wanting to make it work better for all of us, then perhaps they can be trusted with the reins of power again.

The biggest disaster of the Bush administration was that they weren't serious about making the government work. Thousands of top and mid-level jobs were given to cronies and hacks who only had to prove their loyalty to the party and not their competence. One look at the number of lawyers with degrees from third-rate religious law schools like the Liberty and Regent Universities now working in the Bush administration will explain much of what's been going wrong.

It's going to take some time to get undo the mess Bush is leaving behind.

I think the problem is not demographic but philosophical: the core Republican credo from Reagan on really says government is the problem. This is hard to swallow if you believe climate change is about to consume your favorite beach or you fear some other country's religious nut is trying his damnest to sneak a nuke into San Pedro on some Chinese freighter. In the age of proliferation, bird flu and climate change, smart government is what the people want.

All the Republicans stand for is fear, hate and greed - proudly trimmed with a celebratory ignorance best demonstrated by Caribou Barbie. Their decline is well earned and extremely pleasing to behold.

This is in many ways a thoughtful post, but it misses the central reality of the contemporary Republican party, namely that the party is not about policies but about tactics. As pointed out in a recent LAT piece by Neil Gabler, the basis for the party is not ideology of Reagan or Goldwater (or even Rick Warren or Bill Kristol) but rather the red-baiting of Joe McCarthy.

The Republican party will eventually find something new to scare the public about. Maybe there will be another terrorist attack for them to exploit the way they exploited 9/11. Maybe they'll find a find a way to exploit xenophobia without turning off Latinos. I'm not sure we can guess what the future holds for the Republican party, but we do can be sure that they'll find new ways to scare up votes using fear without actually proposing realistic new policies or accomplishing anything at any level of American government.

After all, that's the Republican way.

It's a shame journos like you can't be realistic about this.

Become Intellectually Serious Again

Excuse me, but when were Republicans ever intellectually serious. I'll grant you Abe Lincoln, but when this century?

Let's stop pretending this more to the Republican party than fear-mongering and class/race resentment. There isn't.

The only hope in the intermediate term is Dem overreaching. We are still a center-right nation on cultural issues, and I think the anti-science argument is overblown by the monopoly MSM media. For the Republicans to come back we will need a fundemental restructuring of the media-industrial complex, Dem religious fundementalism on billion $$$ global warming carbon caps with no scientific model to back them up, no ANWR/off-shore drilling since it's blasphemy against Gaia, asinine rules against pickup trucks, coal power and the like. Add to that other hot button givemes to the right like union card check, teacher/public employee union coddling while the elite go to Sidwell Friends, let 'er rip illegal immigration with footdraging on employer verification by the Bob Menendez types... the Republican brand will start getting a fresh look very quickly. It's very possible you could see the Heath Schulers driven out of the party just as Jeff Sessions or Phil Graham were a generation ago.

I love how in maybe a dozen posts attacking mine, not one of them were able to argue against the single most damning point:

In the Republican presidential primaries, you had multiple candidates on both sides of basically EVERY issue. The candidates did not universally agree on a single issue. In the Democratic primaries, every candidate agreed on every single issue. There was no difference on a single issue. It was a personality of personality, gender and racial identity.

The idea that somehow there is more room for disagreement on the left is laughably stupid, and has nothing to do with reality. It reminds me of a lot of smug leftists on college campuses: Dissent is great, various opinions are great.... as long as they don't disagree with uber-leftist orthodoxy, in which case they're racist, corporatist blasphemy who must have their speech banned.

No, Rush Limbaugh couldn't win a presidential primary for the Republican party. No, Sarah Palin almost definitely can't win (unless she drastically changes how she visualized by the general public). People imagining the Republican party as a bunch of one-toothed hick yokels are just in conceited denial. The Republican Party is the party of the middle class, the party of economists and the party of small government. The Democratic Party is the party of the poor, the super-rich, those obsessed with racial & gender identity, and big government.

The simple problem was that the Republican Party was in power too long. Once you're in power too long, you get corrupt, and you start making government bigger. Remember, people voted for Obama because they thought he'd make government SMALLER. As soon as he doesn't, and as soon as people start figuring out how corrupt the Democrats in power are (Rangel, Jefferson, Reid, etc) then the winds will shift again.

The Republican Party has the huge advantage that they don't have to be withholden to a single interest group. Democrats are forced to say things that they don't agree with, and vote ways that they don't want to, because they can't go without union and minority grievance group money. And that will be what damns them back to the wilderness. One Presidential candidate receiving more than 50% of the vote in a generation does not a generational shift make.

I'm with Lizzy - new party for those in the middle.

Young people DO realize these principles already. As a young person (26), who pays taxes, one of the things that disturbs me the MOST about the Republican Party is the assumption that I will "learn these things later in life." I already have thanks a lot.

The financial crisis is an excellent example of this. Guess what, NONE of us have been through a financial crisis like this unless you were alive in the 1930s. You could argue 1979 is somewhat analogous, but recent trends indicate even THAT doesn't rise to the same level as what we're experiencing now.

Nor do we endorse socialism or "not fully understand what the drawbacks to it are." That one really pisses me off to. And effectively solidified my vote for Obama. The notion that Obama is a socialist, which young people somehow are just too naive to understand, while Bush is nationalizing the entire economy is patently absurd.

It's your Party, the Republican Party, that has failed to effectively learn the lessons of free markets and capitalism. As we speak, you're not employing them now.

Look at the overwhelming amount of support Ron Paul gained from young people. Why? Because as questionable as many of his policies were, at least we knew he had some integrity and actually stood by them. He believed in smaller government, free markets and a humble foreign policy. The rest of your candidates and your current incumbent president don't. Which is why you're getting smashed at the polls. Your Party, not us, has a lot to learn.

As for a solution, since you're going into the political wilderness for at least another decade anyway, you really ought to consider nominating Paul (in the same way you did Goldwater), forming a party around someone who actually stands for something, gaining young support, and hope you can transition to a Reagan-like figure sometime in the future. Otherwise you're pretty much screwed.

P.S. I'm always surprised Pawlenty doesn't gain much traction. No one's ever charged him with not being conservative yet, somehow, again your Party ignores him. And if you actually nominate Jindal in 2012 I 'll give you the shirt off my back. We all know the Republicans are going to do what they always do and nominate someone far off the right wing, probably Palin or if not Rick Perry (of Texas) or Mark Sanford (of South Carolina) and wonder why they lost running the same strategy yet again.

The Republican Party really has to realize this is the 21st century. Otherwise they're gonna keep getting their rear end handed back to them.

It wasn't social issues that defeated John McCain this-- but they didn't help him either. I do believe that the soCons need to update their agend a bit, change their to tone (Americans do not like to be hectored by busybodies) and find some way to become identified by what they are for, not what they are against as I don't believe you can't get far by being an "anti" movement.
But that said, it was the economy that defeated John McCain. And in that regard the GOP really ought to pay attention to Doubthat and Salam's "Sam's Club"/"Grand New Party" ideas. To some extent that will require tossing out the Tax Cuts Uber Alles and Small Government rhetoric, but that's just rhetoric anyway. The GOP, operationally, long ago jettisoned that philosophy-- for the simple reason that very few people are really, truly in favor of it. The GOP can keep James Dobson (though he needs a muzzle at times). Grover Norquist is the one who has got to go. The way forward lies in becoming an American version of Europe's Christian Democrat parties.

overwhelming amount of support Ron Paul gained from young people

It didn't overwhelm much.

Re: Re: You could argue 1979 is somewhat analogous, but recent trends indicate even THAT doesn't rise to the same level as what we're experiencing now.

The crisis of the late 1970s was more profound in several ways, I believe. Today's woes are all about money and nothing but money. The late 70s made people doubt just about everything, and fear for the future on multiple fronts. The sheer craziness of the late 70s make today look calm and sedate. The recession that hit in 1980 may or may have been as deep, but the malaise was much worse.

I think the thing that made me afraid for America over the last 8 years was that the language of fear, ignorance, and demonization had totally replaced any realistic discussion of issues on the Republican side.

This was seen most prominently in the use of "terrorism" as a weapon in politics. Like when Bush said it would be a "win" for the terrorists if the Democrats prevailed in the 2006 elections.

And the ever widening attacks on science as being anti-God. The setting up of a false conflict between science and religion when there needn't be one.

One could argue that Obamas rhetoric was as empty as the GOPS' fear based talking points. We will see if that is true.

But the heartening thing is that it was pandering to hope, and the possibility of America living up to its ideals, that won the election, over the mean little fear based ignorance fueled divisive tactics that worked so well in 2002 and 2004.

Americans are not so easily cowed into giving into fear and ignorance, as it turns out. And that is a great great thing for those of us who were afraid for America.

The GOP strategy is to attack the character of the other candidate, and to suggest that they would surrender America to evil, and that God will frown on America if the Republicans dont win.

They will probably try that one more time in the 2010 midterms, then one more time in 2012. If it doesn't work, then they may finally drop that strategy for the 2014 mid terms. Maybe.

"the Republicans have boxed themselves in on cultural issues, including the role and place of science in society"

Amen!

As far as I am concerned, three things are non-negotiable:

1. Renounce the War on Science, the contempt for objective reality, rationalism and empiricism.
2. Renounce Guantanamo, torture and the contempt for the Constitution.
3. Throw the parasitic "heads I win, tails someone else loses" corporatist and financier elites under the bus.

You do that and then we can talk low taxes, free trade, support for the productive (as opposed to the parasitic) affluent class, common sense social issues (such as defending against excessive PC)...

Until then GOP is a curse word for me...

Republicans have been in a hole electorally for two elections in a row. Though Obama was an outstanding candidate, the dual Republican defeats do cast a longer shadow and force broader questioning of the current party's leadership. Perhaps they are in their own deep and long term recession.

I think the big idea is changing and that is behind their recent electoral defeats. If I am right, Republicans will need a new governing philosophy.

From the days of Ronald Reagan Republicans reveled in calling government the problem. The current president chose policies that were as anti-government as any we have seen in the modern era. Over two elections that cry of Republicans has faded into the sunset. The electorate is independently discovering the relevance and importance of government - in health care, in green energy, in diplomacy, in disaster management.

The Republican anti-government strategy has failed to advance the nation, has failed to tackle today's problems, and has lost its hold on the electorate.

A new vision is called for. If the incoming Obama administration manages to motivate the public through a vision of an activist government partnering with the American people to achieve productive change then Republicans are in for a very long recession.

I think y'all need to stop thinking in terms of us -vs- them, and simply do what you know to be right. Forget about the politics, and as individuals and as a group, simply lead by your example. If other people agree with your example, then without encouragement they will pay attention.

In other words, if you walk your talk without talking about the walk, then others who like what you do will choose to walk as you do.

That's normally refereed to as "LEADERSHIP"

Where the Conservatives of the Republican party have failed, is that they attempted to control every aspect, instead of leading by example and letting be what will be.

Consider just how out of step and out of touch the Republican party has become, and consider what aspects of Leadership they are lacking.

All this, from a Progressive Liberal that recognizes a national need for the counter balance of a strong, rational conservative party.

Re: Long-term, social conservatives have more kids, so the white population will gradually move right and vote more for Republicans as their share decreases.

You are assuming that political ideology is hereditary. It most definitely is not, else we'd have a very hard explaining the 1960s, or for that matter the 1860s, the 1770s, the Protestant Reformation, in fact just about political transformation in all of history.
Moreover sibling rivarly in large families makes for rebellious individuals later in life. Small families that focus on one or two children are more likely to pass on values (and less likely to have "black sheep")than large families.

The Republicans mainly need a break. There is nothing out there to cheer them except the possibility of Democratic failure. No one really listens to the Republicans anymore.

Partly, it's to their credit. The Republicans won all the big policy arguments of the 1980s, and much of what the won still stands, even though they aren't running things anymore. Beginning with Clinton and continuing through Obama, the successful Democrat is one who breaks right at the most strategic time, and convinces voters whose beliefs might in the past have made them Republicans by default that the Democrats hear them and will respect them. Obama knows he can't tack back very far to the left from the positions he took in the general election, because a decisive chunk of his voting base won't follow him there.

But, culturally, the Republicans have to face the dilemma that many who might embrace a more conservative foreign and economic stance can't bring themselves to vote for a party that seems to be unable to say no to yahoos who only pay attention to politics to attack illegal immigrants, gays and stem cells. But if they do say no to them, the party will fall apart.

They'll find their way out of this dilemma eventually, but as of 2008, it sure isn't clear how.

There is no solution. I think we're seeing the beginning of the end of the Republican Party. In the next generation or so, it will either split into a Christian nationalist party on one side and a Republican-Libertarian coalition on the other, or will succumb entirely to social conservatives, at which point it will only be able to carry the South and the New South (ID, WY, UT, AK).

In any situation, the Republican Party as we know it is finished.

Judith is right.

The Christianists own the party now. It's pointless to talk about kicking them out-- they're it's only solid base. As the non-fundamentalists move to join the democrats under an inclusive Obama administration, the Democratic party will take the GOP's place.

By 2020, we could see a challenge to the democrats from the left, as the GOP goes the way of the Know-Nothings.

Marc,
You are falling into the trap the libs have set: Science and Education as the downfall of conservatives. As if conservatives were neaderthals from the stone age suddenly thrust into modern society. A more appropo designation of our current education system would be an indoctrination system. Students from 1st grade on are told they may be gay, they came from monkeys, if they are white they are guilty(of something), they're history is rewritten to show conservatives in a bad light all round.
Name one founding father who has not been condemned as a hypocrite or worse.
Why do they call it the THEORY of Evolution? Because, it's not science. Yet we parade it like it is. We brainwash our kids with these theories and then the rest of us grownups are too afraid to take a stand and be called a name. If the GOP thinks it's best to pander to non-founded-truths and submit to bullying, then cut 'em loose.
The answer lies in taking back the schools in our local districts and standing up to the demagogues and witch-hunters. People like David Horowitz fighting against one-sidedness in universities is going to get conservatives further than changing the platform to include everything antithetical to its views.
Everyone's heard it before: tell a big enough lie and it becomes the truth, or at least you're afraid to dispute it.

It's amazing.

Jack and Mickey have proven the points made. As we sit here and tell them what it is that is so unappealing about the republican base, they start demagoguing on it (Jack on abortion and Mickey on science).

Mickey, for your own good, pleaaasssse educate yourself. Learn what the term "theory" actually means in the scientific context (i.e. theory of gravity, theory of relativity... theory of evolution), so you don't look like a complete moron on these boards. Not only do you make yourself look foolish, you defeat your own point. And by the way, I don't know one founding father who has ever been "condemned" as a hypocrite. Are you a troll? Please tell me you're a troll. It will restore my faith in humanity to know that you are, and your post is a joke.

And Jeff, you're post was refuted at the beginning. There were disagreements in the Republican party at the debates, good for you. There weren't as many at the Democrats, fine. This may be the case in the context of the debates, but as soon as McCain had to try and shore up the base, he had to run to the Dobsons of the world and kiss some major tail. Why? Because despite any disagreements in the debates, the Christianist wing of the party is still the king maker and until that changes, it doesn't matter whether or not people in the party disagree during debates, the non-Christianist conservatives, independents and liberals all know who controls the party and until that changes I can see the party fading into the background.

Re: Why do they call it the THEORY of Evolution? Because, it's not science.

Its for this sort of asininity that the phrase "Ignorance on stilts" was invented. By this standard Newton's Theory of Gravitation and Einstein's Theory of Relativity aren't science either. Objects don't fallen to Earth and nuclear bombs don't go "Boom". Perhaps the poster can dissertate next on how the Pythagorean Theorem isn't mathematics.

The Republican party need to focus on weak democrats and open Democrat seats and whatever flaws are going to exist on Barack Obama, maybe another strategy would be simply not to many commercials against Democrat opponets, The Democrats are gong to be fat lazy and happy over the next 4 years with Barack Obama and are not really going to care if they lose house seats or even a few Senate seats in the year 2010.

The Republicans don't have to do anything. They've already sown the seeds for their inevitable return, by ensuring that the next administration will face insurmountable problems for which, soon enough, it will be blamed. They've plundered the Treasury, sent the economy off a cliff, made catastrophic climate change not only inevitable but also imminent, increased the number and power of enemies while simultaneously weakening and binding down the military, and generally made sure that, in the words of Dr Seuss's fish, "this mess is so big and so deep and so tall, there's no way to fix it, just no way at all."

Their only game is, "Blame the Democrats." And I'm afraid it'll work.

Please rewrite this in something other than Manglish:

"And in 2000, John McCain did George W. Bush a favor; the latter, by protesting so loudly against the Pat Robertsons of the world, allowed the former to avoid explicitly indentifying them."

I can accommodate typos. Sloppy I writing can't.

I don't know how long I can let this meme about the supposed "war on science" by Republicans go. If you explore the adherence to the liberal secular religion of AGW despite the growing contrarian evidence, resistance to GM foods, and the unsubstaniated concerns about vaccines coming from the left, the right is not alone in its war on science.

"Funny Truth" said: The Funny Truth is that from 16 Republican Senators that were against the Immigration reform bill last year, only 2 were reelected, 14 LOST THEIR SEATS ."

Uh, no. There were only 4 GOP incumbents who lost their seats in the Senate, and 7 GOP seats lost overall. Two GOP Senators who voted for amnesty (Craig and Hagel) have now been replaced by Republicans who oppose it. And in the House, Republicans who oppose amnesty had a lower loss percentage than those who support it. The bipartisan immigration hawk caucus in the House has actually grown in membership during the last two cycles, even as Republican numbers have declined.

Republicans can only hope that the Dems are dumb enough to push an immigration "reform" bill next year: Immigration, and amnesty in particular, is one of the few issues where the majority of the public agrees with the GOP base.

And this time the Dems won't have a GOP president giving them cover. Hopefully, the epic fail of McCain to attract Hispanic votes by supporting amnesty, has finally discredited the Rove/Bush/McCain Hispandering strategy. The GOP will never out-Hispander Dems, and they shouldn't try.

John T said: "And if you actually nominate Jindal in 2012 I 'll give you the shirt off my back. We all know the Republicans are going to do what they always do and nominate someone far off the right wing, probably Palin or if not Rick Perry (of Texas) or Mark Sanford (of South Carolina) and wonder why they lost running the same strategy yet again."

Actually I can't think of any major issue where Jindal is to the left of Palin and Perry, and he is to their right on at least one major issue (immigration).


Re: If you explore the adherence to the liberal secular religion of AGW despite the growing contrarian evidence, resistance to GM foods, and the unsubstaniated concerns about vaccines coming from the left, the right is not alone in its war on science.

1. The overwhelming consensus of science is that global warming is occuring, and is mainly due to the increase of CO2 (and other greenhouse gases) in the atmosphere
2. Resistance to GM foods is not a mainstream liberal position (in the same way the Creationism has become mainstream on the Right). It's more of a leftwing "kook" position.
3. Vaccine fears are not ideological at all, and can be found in people of all political persuasions.

Jindal is a religious-right conservative and a very bright guy by all accounts (unlike Palin who is politically smart and very ambitious, but not intellectually curious -- very much like Bush in that way).

He will be a formidable opponent for whoever wants to succeed Obama in 2016. He's not even 40 yet, so he has plenty of time to seek the presidency, and would still be younger eight years from now than Obama is now.

Unless Obama's approval ratings are in Bush territory, Jindal has no reason to run in 2012. The recession will be hard on Louisiana too, and I doubt he will have little positive on his resume in two year as a result. If he waits till 2016 he will have six more years to prove himself as governor of Louisiana, and boy, does he have his work cut out for him.

The electorate has changed in the last 20 years, but the Republicans are not not without hope. Republicans won a sizeable number of Hispanic voters in 2004 and they can win them again if the shrill Tancredo types can be suppressed and the party puts forth an immigration reform that's not mean-spirited while at the same time is less than a full amnesty.
Much hope resides for the party resides in the good governance examples of state official such as Bobby Jindal and - what's that fellow's name- in Minnesota.

Don't parties sometimes disappear? Couldn't the Democrats split into two parties? Either that or "Republican" will not mean anything we associate with the party in a few years.

Marc, the only thing for republicans to do, outside of staying locked in and held hostage by the evangelical base is for them to rebuild.
Rebuilding takes a long time. Democrats know. but it is the only way out of being only a southern far rightwing party.
the problem is the social conservatives chase everyone else off, including candidates.
This is probably the most damaging thing Bush did to his party. Everyone else kept the evangies at arms length and reigned in. Bush opened that pandora's box.

The problem in my view can be simplified in this way. The party is too intent on division which has worked in the past. At some point the politics of division separate those who would support you. Division multiplied equals exclusion.
On the other side the victors preach inclusion and acceptance.

@ Mickey, Jack

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"

- John Adams

Before you trash me, let me tell you that I'm a dirt-road, Bible-quoting Southerner with too many guns: your party needs my support, and it won't have it until you and your ilk drop your crusade to have the government define and legislate moral behavior. This crusade -- if the founding fathers were to judge -- is un-American.
Step one: have a little more respect for the other participants in the debate. Jack, men don't get to preach to women about the evils of abortion; we're never going to face the wrenching decision of whether or not to have one.

I think a major issue that is missed here is the GOTV (or get out the vote) effort in an election.

The reason that the republicans tied themselves so tightly to the Christian right is not because of strict agreement in Republican circles with Christian causes, it is because they could dangle a divisive social issue in front of these groups and count on those groups to help work the phones and their communities to get bodies to the polls to vote republican. That was why gay marriage was such a big issue in states earlier in the decade ... it helped bring in bodies to the polls and helped recruit people to the phone banks.

The key to the rebirth of the republican party is not only a new leader that is dynamic and engaging to "regular" voters, but a coordinated internet effort that can replace the Christianists for GOTV.

That is why Howard Dean and more so moveon.org were such an important figure for the Democrats. While they did not become the face of the Dems or even the driving force for policy, they helped birth the technology and individual leaders that made Barack Obama's candidacy and more importantly fundraising and GOTV operations possible.

Re: They've already sown the seeds for their inevitable return, by ensuring that the next administration will face insurmountable problems for which, soon enough, it will be blamed.

I don't think it will work that way, if history is any guide. FDR was not blamed for Depression, Reagan was not blamed for the problems Carter left behind, and Lincoln's Republicans most certainly were not blamed for the Civil War.

Theory, in the strict science sense of the word, appears to be a postulate that science can embrace because the parts embraced, which valid, add up enough to push it to the science column; while, noting that not everything is testable, we affirm its validity. Of course, theory is used in a less formal manner to be not science. English is an organic language growing where it will and people use it accordingly as we communicate ideas. Not meaning to parse or obfuscate words on the order of what the meaning of is is, science and theory are mutually exclusive in their origin, especially today. If a theory has been provable or valid it should be a law.
The Theory of Evolution while having some parts considered valid by some scientists does not have enough to consider it science, in my opinion. There's a list of things that should be shown to students, but the fear is that Christians are demagoging the issue and should be muzzled because humanistic scientists know what's right and run our educational institutions. What about the lack of transitional fossils, the geological strata fossil record, inaccurate dating methods, the very slow gradual process of transformation from one form of life into another as the main tenet of the Theory , at first, but then refuted and now Punctuated Equilibriam put in it's place? Is this established now, or should another be sought? Theory or Science? Last word on this; Bacterial Flagellum.

In the scientific sense, all "theories" are provisional. Here's what Karl Popper had to say: "The scientific status of a theory is its falsifiability, or refutability, or testability."

About evolution:

The question isn't whether it happens in the short term; it's whether the evolutionary process could account for our current form. There are some really complex structures in our bodies, certainly. But consider this: if the universe's age is the length of a football field (120 yards including the end-zones)the length of recorded human history is less than the width of a human hair. We can't comprehend the vastness of the time scales over which the evolutionary processes in question occur.