Interview: Gov. Tim Pawlenty on Reagan, His Party, And His Advice To Obama

This being a Democratic -- uh -- postpartisan -- week, I thought I would spend some time with one of the country's leading Republican political figures, Gov. Tim Pawlenty. On Monday, Pawlenty, Mary Pawlenty, and I sat down for a conversation about the future of his party -- and himself.

So what brings you to Washington?

It's important to send the message that we're behind this new president as best we can. And be united, and this country comes together in a communitarian moment.

When's the last time you saw the President-elect?

in Philadelphia, just about the end of November, or so.

If he was inclined to ask you for advice in dealing with states, in particular, what would you say to him?

Well,  that if you're going to send us money, try to invest in things that are going to help us in the intermediate and long-haul as opposed to papering over the current problems. It doesn't help us too much if you send us one-time cash for structure deficits. ... For example, in Medicaid, it's one thing to say we['re going to take the reimbusrement rate to something higher. That's good. But it would also be helpful if we could overhaul the medical information, medical data systems. There's a big cost that goes in to turning those systems over into a more modern era. It would also be helpful if we could modify some of the rules and regulations so we're not handcuffed from not trying to change the programs. If all we get is money now... these programs are going to run up on the rocks in about five or tens years. ... We don't want to kick the can down the road in terms of making the fixes because we know it's going to be a structural plan down the road.

Have they been receptive?

They have been. We had a good meeting in Philadelphia, and I've kept in touch with some of my Democrat colleagues who have been right in the middle of the discussion. It appears like the Obama administration is listening and is trying to fashion at least some of the relief toward these reform and modernization goals, not just here's some cash.

For you, what will be the test as to whether or not the stimulus package and TARP money will be effective or not?

The public and the commentators will more probably say, the economy has turned around. We'll never know for sure about the cause and effect, or the correlation. I think the President will get credit regardless of whether there's a cause and effect relationship or not. And converseley, if it doesn't. People will have a different judgment.

Back at the RGA meeting [last fall]], you talked about the party needed to get beyond Ronald Reagan. What do you mean by that? The RNC chairman candidates -- all they really talk about is Reagan.

Well, I think I said in my state of my state, but I can also say it about my own party: we can't be so in love with the past that we miss the future.  And the world is changing very rapidly, and there's a lot of technological change, demographic change, cultural change, and it's all approaching us at a very rapid speed. And I think the Republican Party fondly remembers Ronald Reagan, and we should. He's going to go down in history as one of the great presidents. Our challenge is to have the solutions of the 1980s not be the solutions that we have in 2008s.  .. A lot has happened since the 1980s. There's been a lot of change. We can be true to those values and principles, but half of the country doesn't remember Ronald Reagan very well. If you're under 40, 35 years old, Ronald Reagan is kind of a foggy notion. All I'm saying is, yes, let's celebrate that, let's learn from that, let's build on it, but let's talk about new ideas, new leaders, for the future.

Give some examples of that sort of future-thinking.

I'll give you two actual examples that we should have seen coming instead of dragging behind on it. One is environment and conservation. This was an issue that, in many Republican quarters, conservative quarters, was dismissed as recently as a few years ago, much less in the 1990s.  ....  A second one would be health care. It wasn't that long ago that quietly, confidentially, Republican consultants would say, "health care, we can never win that. It's too ddifficult. It's a morass. We shouldn't be involved in that as a leading issue." Well, nonsense.  That's one of the main concerns of everyday, average Americans, and to say, we're out of th egame on that?  We should have been pushing and leading with our own solutions to that and showing progress.

In your state of the state address, you called for cutting business taxes during this deep recession to balance the budget, and you called for increased educational spending per pupil, tied to results. The reaction has been interesting. Some Democratic voices have said, look, How realistic is this, though, with Democrats in control of the legislature? since Democrats control both houses, it's nice that he threw a net set of ideas into it.

I don't feel constrained by the fact that the  legislature is Democrat to not throw out ideas that I believe in, and push them and lead on them. In Minnesota, we have a good educational system, but we need to approve. I believe the future, in so many of these areas, is to align money with results. So, right now, we've got  money into education; it all goes into inputs, and factors that are unrelated to results. The public gets it.  You go to a forum and you ask, how many of you, if you're not government, get paid for seniority? no hands go up.  The private sector has paid for  hundreds and hundreds and millions of dollars around training people into performance measurements, performance metrics. That needs to happen in government, and that particularly needs to happen in education. Do the Democrats like that? No. Do the teacher's unions like that? No. But that's the way the world works. I submit to you that you're young enough that you'll eventually see that happen. Even in a mild way, President Obama embraced that. The genteman who is going to be the Secretary of Education , from Chicago, has embraced that. This is about an evolution that is going to take place.   On the issue of tax cuts, Minnesota has got a big budget deficit, but we can't just focus on getting the books
 balanced. We have to focus on say, how do we get this state to a place where we're going to be able to offer good-paying jobs and have employees want to stay there, grow there and be there.

What about your own political future? Are you thinking about a presidential run?

I really have put off any sort of decisions about my political future until we get through this legislative session and this budget crisis, and I want to stay focused on that. I haven't ruled out running for re-election as governor, either. I've told our local press that I'll something to say about that later this year, but generally, I'm going to focus on the task at hand.